Burning fat and Gaining muscle at the same time!

Snow3y

So I've been arguing with the marketing person of Fitness 101 on facebook, they're in supported by most major (local anyway) brands, including Optimum Nutrition.

They made some posts of how you can Burn far and build muscle at the same time, I was told I've learnt otherwise and been told otherwise too. They insist that I am wrong, so I requested some studies proving this, since they've now told me it's "pure science".

I was sent these:

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://www.ergo-log.com/sixweeksfishoil.html&h=yAQGba22I

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://www.ergo-log.com/betaalaninefatgainmuscle.html&h=xAQF4-91y

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://www.ergo-log.com/vitamindmusclefat.html&h=JAQEhrtR_

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://www.ergo-log.com/argininemuscle.html&h=fAQEb02Pb


My argument was now: There is no proof that these volunteers performed a bulk for the first 4 weeks, and in the last 2 weeks they proceeded with an extreme deficit to lose fat.

Am I wrong in this argument?

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Here's the argument copy-pasted:

Myself: Impossible to do both at the same time... naturally that is
22 hours ago · Like · Reply

Fitness 101: studies have shown that it is in fact possible to build lean muscle while burning fat. But if you are referring to the term "bulking" that's a different story
22 hours ago · Like

Myself: can I see these studies? as I've read otherwise for quite some time... and been told by quite a few bodybuilding competitors too..
21 hours ago · Like

Fitness 101: The amount of muscle you are able to build are a lot less if any in experienced lifters. If you are starting out, you can build a substantial amount of muscle while burning fat. In fact, that's exactly how you manage to burn that fat. More lean muscle = faster metabolism, which eventually helps you to get rid of the unwanted fat. These facts are not opinions, they are based on science. However, bodybuilders, bulking cycles etc. could be a different story. Hope this makes sense.
19 hours ago · Like

Myself: Like I said, I'd wanna see these studies of this so called science before I can follow what is said to be "science"...
6 hours ago · Like

Fitness 101: here are just a few http://www.ergo-log.com/sixweeksfishoil.html http://www.ergo-log.com/betaalaninefatgainmuscle.html http://www.ergo-log.com/vitamindmusclefat.html http://www.ergo-log.com/argininemuscle.html, you can also research articles on PhD. Jim Stoppani as he is a specialist in the field and will back this up

Six weeks of fish oil: lose a pound of fat and gain a pound of lean body mass
www.ergo-log.com
If you’re not afraid to take more than the manufacturer’s recommended dose, you can lose extra fat and gain extra muscle tissue with a harmless supplement like fish oil. According to a study done at Gettysburg College in the US, the effect is not sensational, but worth a try.
5 hours ago · Like

Myself: These articles don't have proof of diet regimens.. How's it possible to know where 1 day the wrestlers/volunteers were consuming to another day earlier or before..

One could continue to train and eat in a surplus for the first 4 weeks causing a weight and muscle gain, and in the last 2 weeks go into an extreme deficit to achieve the provided fat loss. The other study is done on rats, which are not anywhere near the same as humans when It comes to training and nutrition so I wont bother commenting on that piece...

My argument stands.. it is impossible to burn fat and gain muscle at the same time

47Jacqueline

If you are doing circuit training, which includes strength training and cardio, you can burn fat and gain muscle at the same time. I don't have time to read all your links, but I've been doing a combination of strength training and cardio for a year. I reached a plateau for a while whiile my body adjusted to my eating and activity, but now I'm on maintenance and I continue to do my combination and I am staying between 129 and 125 on a regular basis. I weigh myself every other week and continue to log my food and exercise.

Capt_Apollo

its called body recomposition, or "recomp." this guy Lyle McDonald did some extensive research on it. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/

Smackemdanno

Why not go through the cycle of bulk and cut instead of debating the possibility of finding and maintaining the fine line between bulking and fat burning. It is a proven method with thousands of success stories. Even if you did find the magical zone of fat burning while bulking the rate of success would most likely by far less effective at fat burning or bulking than a cycle of bulk and cut. Fat burning and bulking are not get rich schemes, rather they require long term investments in time lifting, eating right with a healthy mix of cardio.

eric_sg61

If you are doing circuit training, which includes strength training and cardio, you can burn fat and gain muscle at the same time.

NO

Roadie2000

With the exception of newbie gains, the two don't happen simultaneously. But it is possible to lose fat and gain muscle throughout the course of a month/week.

Snow3y

But it is possible to lose fat and gain muscle throughout the course of a month/week.

this. Seems they are too stubborn to listen...

ninerbuff

If you are doing circuit training, which includes strength training and cardio, you can burn fat and gain muscle at the same time.

Link a clinical study to support this. I would like to read it.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

If we are talking about gaining "any" muscle at all, then it's possible. If we're talking "significant" muscle to see an very obvious difference in a short time, it's probably not happening. There really aren't absolutes to the question at hand, but I trust that the intent of most who sell product, especially supplements, is to hype up how effective their product is by manipulating how studies back their position on it.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

geekyjock76

Sports nutrition companies boast some of the most misleading and disingenuous marketing imaginable. I used to own a sports nutrition store and the claims made are often fairy tales.

Timshel_

I just never get what the point of the argument is, except maybe bias towards something. We continually tell people to lift because building muscle increases BMR which will help them lose weight. Even on a high protein diet to facilitate muscle repair/building, the underlying fat/carb combination will still be utilized for energy for BMR.

Unless someone is saying they are using fat to build muscle?

Am I missing something?

Stripeness

If we are talking about gaining "any" muscle at all, then it's possible. If we're talking "significant" muscle to see an very obvious difference in a short time, it's probably not happening. There really aren't absolutes to the question at hand...

So, in collegiate athletics (water polo, swimming) as well as HS x-country, I both experienced and observed some muscle gain while losing fat. It wasn't *just* revealing existing muscle - in water polo specifically, there was noticeable development of my calves and shin muscles (name escapes me atm).

Was this "significant" from a bodybuilder's perspective? Heck no. Was I lifting? Absolutely. I *think* most seasonal sports programs do - especially those that aren't big enough to support formal off-season training. There was cardio before weights sometimes, and sometimes after. And the collective ended up leaner and stronger and faster, and in some places a little bigger by season's end.

While the bulk/cut cycling may cause recomp faster, I'm a little confused by the ongoing dissing of other approaches. Personally, I liked where I was at the end of polo seasons - not cut, but DAMN fit and lighter and stronger. Yet consistently I see cardio getting bashed and bulk/cut being pushed as the ONLY possibility for recomp.

Didn't anyone else do sports?

Quoting Niner here, because it's one of the most sensible things I've seen on the subject in some time.

Jersey_Devil

it may be possible for some newbie gains, but beyond that nope. You are right. They are wrong. I'd like to shove a protein bar up their study's a$S