Bad advice - Don't log/eat back exercise calories
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Where I think there is value though is saying that equating calories burned to food (ate a donut, now I need to burn X amount of calories) isn't the healthiest way to approach the relationship between diet and exercise.
Actually I make that comparison in my head, but without the eating beforehand in 9)% of the time. I do the exercise, then remind myself how much exercise it takes for me to earn enough calories for a Mars bar. I then remember how much hard work it took and more than likely dont eat it. It really puts things into perspective.
There is a nuance there for sure. I mean, I know on the days that I go to CrossFit, I'm going to eat a little bit more and maybe have more room for a treat. Where it gets tricky is when exercise becomes punitive. I ate this, so I must do that....on a regular basis. Slippery slope, especially for people prone to obsessing about calories. That's why I say, do what works for you - but it still remains a valuable point to not use exercise as punishment for eating.
Agreed ... and for some of us the reverse ... we shouldn't use food as reward for exercise either. It may all add up correctly and we may lose weight, but for some of us it reinforces an already unhealthy relationship.0 -
It depends on the method you are using. I don't understand why this concept is so difficult for people...it's 5th grade frackin' math. I'm quickly losing hope in society at large...it seem like most people can't even grasp very basic concepts.0
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Where I think there is value though is saying that equating calories burned to food (ate a donut, now I need to burn X amount of calories) isn't the healthiest way to approach the relationship between diet and exercise.
Actually, making this equation is the only way I've managed to lose weight after years of unsuccessfully trying. Otherwise it's just guesswork. This is the basis of CICO. Not all of us actually enjoy exercise. I exercise to burn calories and "earn" food.
That is fine if it works for you, but it still isn't the healthiest way to look at food and exercise. It's easily abused and can lead to ED through exercise.
I'm sorry if you struggle with eating disorders. It's not a problem for me.
I have my caloric goals set for my standard exercise levels, and then I eat more on the days I work out. That's because my exercise is sporadic AND my calorie level is set very low, so I need more food with even a small amount of exercise. If i eat a 150 calorie energy bar to get through my workout, I should make sure I burn at least 150 calories (well, for me, 300, because I track exercise at 50%). Otherwise I should have not eaten the energy bar and stayed on the couch.
And definitely if I go on a 6-hour hike on Saturday, I need more food than the day before, when I sat at my desk for 8 hours.
Some people have their caloric goals set for their average exercise levels and use a TDEE method. That probably works better if your exercise level is the same every day or every week.
Did I say I have an active eating disorder? No, I didn't.
I said do what works for you - that's great.
But that doesn't mean that my point is not valuable or that it is wrong.0 -
wonderwoman234 wrote: »...and it can be the difference between 350 calories on the first day to 100 calories in month three.
More likely the difference between 350 calories and 330 calories.
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Samenamenewlook wrote: »Where I think there is value though is saying that equating calories burned to food (ate a donut, now I need to burn X amount of calories) isn't the healthiest way to approach the relationship between diet and exercise.
Actually I make that comparison in my head, but without the eating beforehand in 9)% of the time. I do the exercise, then remind myself how much exercise it takes for me to earn enough calories for a Mars bar. I then remember how much hard work it took and more than likely dont eat it. It really puts things into perspective.
There is a nuance there for sure. I mean, I know on the days that I go to CrossFit, I'm going to eat a little bit more and maybe have more room for a treat. Where it gets tricky is when exercise becomes punitive. I ate this, so I must do that....on a regular basis. Slippery slope, especially for people prone to obsessing about calories. That's why I say, do what works for you - but it still remains a valuable point to not use exercise as punishment for eating.
Agreed ... and for some of us the reverse ... we shouldn't use food as reward for exercise either. It may all add up correctly and we may lose weight, but for some of us it reinforces an already unhealthy relationship.
This is also an excellent point. We often overestimate our burns and using food as a reward is an easy way to overeat if you are not weighing food.0 -
Nope - higher fitness levels allow you to do more, that's why a fitter person can burn more calories. So a fitter person can cycle faster for longer as an example.wonderwoman234 wrote: »Actually, I asked my nutritionist about this today. She said that it is very hard to estimate actual calories burned due to the law of diminishing returns. So the first week that you do an exercise, you might burn the amount of calories the machine says (or what it says when you look it up online, etc.), but as you continue to do that same exercise, you burn less and less over time. So three months from now, you running for 30 minutes on the treadmill at 9 minute mile speed will burn fewer calories as it did on day one....and it can be the difference between 350 calories on the first day to 100 calories in month three.
That is why I try not to eat all of my calories. She suggested eating fewer on the days you don't work out and "slightly" higher on days you do.....but certainly not the full amount because it's probably an inaccurate number.
Your nutritionist is confusing effort with physics.
Calories burned are to do with weight/distance/duration - not fitness levels or perceived effort.
A fit, muscular 200lb person walking up stairs will burn the same number of calories as an unfit, fat 200lb person walking up stairs. There may be very small efficiencies that come into it but because it's easy for one and hard for the other has very little to do with energy expended.
Actually fitness level has a lot to do with calories burned. Hence V02Max. The more fit you are the more oxygen you can push through your body, so even with what seems like less effort you can actually burn more calories. Calories burned is much closer linked to oxygen uptake than it is HR, for those that use and HRM to get an estimate.
Agree about HR though - many people don't understand how they work unfortunately. I'm creating much more power for a lower HR now than a few years ago so an uncalibrated HRM will be way out for me.
I used a sophisticated cycle trainer the other day with a power meter. An unfit person working hard creating 200w of power is burning the same calories as a super fit (high VO2 max) person cruising along creating 200w of power. The unfit person just won't be able to sustain it for long.
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I agree that seeing food as anything other than fuel (or something to be shared and enjoyed and recipes/cooking skills as a growing knowledge base), - seeing it as currency, punishment, rewards, in my brain all of those things turned into habits lead to an unhealthy relationship with food.
this does not mean I disagree with eating or not eating back extra calories burned during a workout - that is personal fuel management and works differently (even if only slightly) in each body and brain.0 -
Where I think there is value though is saying that equating calories burned to food (ate a donut, now I need to burn X amount of calories) isn't the healthiest way to approach the relationship between diet and exercise.
Actually, making this equation is the only way I've managed to lose weight after years of unsuccessfully trying. Otherwise it's just guesswork. This is the basis of CICO. Not all of us actually enjoy exercise. I exercise to burn calories and "earn" food.
That is fine if it works for you, but it still isn't the healthiest way to look at food and exercise. It's easily abused and can lead to ED through exercise.
I'm sorry if you struggle with eating disorders. It's not a problem for me.
I have my caloric goals set for my standard exercise levels, and then I eat more on the days I work out. That's because my exercise is sporadic AND my calorie level is set very low, so I need more food with even a small amount of exercise. If i eat a 150 calorie energy bar to get through my workout, I should make sure I burn at least 150 calories (well, for me, 300, because I track exercise at 50%). Otherwise I should have not eaten the energy bar and stayed on the couch.
And definitely if I go on a 6-hour hike on Saturday, I need more food than the day before, when I sat at my desk for 8 hours.
Some people have their caloric goals set for their average exercise levels and use a TDEE method. That probably works better if your exercise level is the same every day or every week.
Did I say I have an active eating disorder? No, I didn't.
I said do what works for you - that's great.
But that doesn't mean that my point is not valuable or that it is wrong.
The only place where we agree is that it doesn't make sense to eat a donut you didn't really want and then feel like you have to "exercise it off". I prefer to pre-plan. It's probably smarter to do the math and then decide you can't afford the donut after all.
But if you want a donut and you want to achieve your goals, then yes, you need to either find 300 calories to not eat, or burn 300 calories through activity. Or you can call it a "treat" and go over your calories that day, which is no big deal if it really is "just once". But if that becomes a regular thing, you become overweight. Better to make your behavior match your goals every single day.
I've definitely gone to the gym on Saturday afternoon knowing that there's a special dinner that night. Seems healthier to me than sitting on my butt all day.
It's not a punishment. It's an equation that has to balance. Mine is Calories In - Calories Out Through Exercise <= 1450.
On 1450 calories/day net, I MUST exercise if I want to eat more than the basics. It really is that simple.
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I don't log any exercise that's less than 90 min b/c that's my NORMAL. that's also why I don't log any activities I do on a regular basis: house cleaning, vacuuming, gardening, etc. That's my normal. I DO count my weekend long runs and races, though, b/c they're generally 3 hrs or more.
I eat about the same calories every day, regardless of what I do. On weekends and long runs/races, I do eat a little more, but it's not crap. It's just a little more of the same nutritious foods I ALWAYS EAT, b/c my body needs it for recovery. Eating crap would retard the recovery, which I don't want because I want to run nearly every day.0 -
Where I think there is value though is saying that equating calories burned to food (ate a donut, now I need to burn X amount of calories) isn't the healthiest way to approach the relationship between diet and exercise.
Actually, making this equation is the only way I've managed to lose weight after years of unsuccessfully trying. Otherwise it's just guesswork. This is the basis of CICO. Not all of us actually enjoy exercise. I exercise to burn calories and "earn" food.
That is fine if it works for you, but it still isn't the healthiest way to look at food and exercise. It's easily abused and can lead to ED through exercise.
I'm sorry if you struggle with eating disorders. It's not a problem for me.
I have my caloric goals set for my standard exercise levels, and then I eat more on the days I work out. That's because my exercise is sporadic AND my calorie level is set very low, so I need more food with even a small amount of exercise. If i eat a 150 calorie energy bar to get through my workout, I should make sure I burn at least 150 calories (well, for me, 300, because I track exercise at 50%). Otherwise I should have not eaten the energy bar and stayed on the couch.
And definitely if I go on a 6-hour hike on Saturday, I need more food than the day before, when I sat at my desk for 8 hours.
Some people have their caloric goals set for their average exercise levels and use a TDEE method. That probably works better if your exercise level is the same every day or every week.
Did I say I have an active eating disorder? No, I didn't.
I said do what works for you - that's great.
But that doesn't mean that my point is not valuable or that it is wrong.
The only place where we agree is that it doesn't make sense to eat a donut you didn't really want and then feel like you have to "exercise it off". I prefer to pre-plan. It's probably smarter to do the math and then decide you can't afford the donut after all.
But if you want a donut and you want to achieve your goals, then yes, you need to either find 300 calories to not eat, or burn 300 calories through activity. Or you can call it a "treat" and go over your calories that day, which is no big deal if it really is "just once". But if that becomes a regular thing, you become overweight. Better to make your behavior match your goals every single day.
I've definitely gone to the gym on Saturday afternoon knowing that there's a special dinner that night. Seems healthier to me than sitting on my butt all day.
It's not a punishment. It's an equation that has to balance. Mine is Calories In - Calories Out Through Exercise <= 1450.
On 1450 calories/day net, I MUST exercise if I want to eat more than the basics. It really is that simple.
You can argue with me all day long if you want using yourself as a case study. I really don't care. If it works for you - GREAT. Go for it. Gold star.
My point was very simple. Using exercise as a means to "erase" foods consumed or using food as a "reward" for doing exercise is not the best way to look at the relationship between exercise and food for some people. Not everyone is like you. Just because that mental approach is what works for you, doesn't mean it works for everyone and it doesn't make my point any less valid.0 -
A donut is not a big deal if you're a 200 lb musclebound guy who works out every day and maintains at 2500.
For me, it is 25% of my calorie allotment for the day, so I darn well better plan for it.0 -
Maybe I have some bro-science stuck in my head, but I thought muscle burns more calories than fat. If that is true, wouldn't the muscular 200 pound man burn more doing the same intensity/time/etc. than the unfit/high in fat 200 pound man?
Have always heard you burn less as you get better at something, and perhaps its because other dynamics change. But then its also common, I think, for someone to find areas to improve as they get more fit/more experienced in an exercise. Speed, duration, etc. for example. And that would offset any diminishing effects.
Your nutritionist is confusing effort with physics.
Calories burned are to do with weight/distance/duration - not fitness levels or perceived effort.
A fit, muscular 200lb person walking up stairs will burn the same number of calories as an unfit, fat 200lb person walking up stairs. There may be very small efficiencies that come into it but because it's easy for one and hard for the other has very little to do with energy expended.
Of course whether or not the time on the treadmill negates the donut all depends on what is happening (calories in and out) the rest of the day. Now I'm wondering if the Krispy Kreme light is on. There is one a few miles away.
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I agree that seeing food as anything other than fuel (or something to be shared and enjoyed and recipes/cooking skills as a growing knowledge base), - seeing it as currency, punishment, rewards, in my brain all of those things turned into habits lead to an unhealthy relationship with food.
this does not mean I disagree with eating or not eating back extra calories burned during a workout - that is personal fuel management and works differently (even if only slightly) in each body and brain.
+1
ETA - Yoovie, what I love about this concept is that it takes into account the bigger picture, the one that goes beyond CICO in terms of exercise. You and I make exercise a lifestyle. It's how we burn stress, gain muscle, get stronger, feel better, meet cool people and so on and so forth. It's so much more than, "I have to go to the gym just so I can eat something." And when your life becomes fitness, a donut that puts you 100 over the calorie allotment is a tiny tiny blip (if you can even call it a blip) on the big picture.0 -
Exercise burns food consumed, lol.
And yes, everyone should use whatever mental tricks work for them. For me, the currency model has been life-changing. Exercise = money earned, food = money spent.
Used to be in debt, now earning more than I make and losing for the first time in my life.
And no eating disorder! Just math!0 -
Exercise burns food consumed, lol.
And yes, everyone should use whatever mental tricks work for them. For me, the currency model has been life-changing. Exercise = money earned, food = money spent.
Used to be in debt, now earning more than I make and losing for the first time in my life.
And no eating disorder! Just math!
Enjoy that model. I'm glad you don't have an eating disorder. Well done!
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Exercise burns food consumed, lol.
And yes, everyone should use whatever mental tricks work for them. For me, the currency model has been life-changing. Exercise = money earned, food = money spent.
Used to be in debt, now earning more than I make and losing for the first time in my life.
And no eating disorder! Just math!
Exercise doesn't just burn food consumed....
and like everyone has said about 6 times, congratulations. gold star. good for you. woohoo times two.
just because this is what works for you and your special mindset doesn't mean it works for us or that we agree or should agree.
For me, using the food as currency method, would go hand in hand with the whole idea of using shame and negativity and deprivation of love and self-worth as workout motivators.
Within a month, I would only eat if i was naked, sitting indian style in front of a full length mirror so I would be sure to not be such a pig and could earn myself a happy day, if i behave and don't spend any calories.
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I have my calories set pretty low..so when I exercise I do eat back some of them. If they were set higher I probably wouldn't eat them back..unless I was hungry.
If what you're doing is working..keep at it. If not (and you're trying to lose) change things up a bit.0 -
I agree that seeing food as anything other than fuel (or something to be shared and enjoyed and recipes/cooking skills as a growing knowledge base), - seeing it as currency, punishment, rewards, in my brain all of those things turned into habits lead to an unhealthy relationship with food.
this does not mean I disagree with eating or not eating back extra calories burned during a workout - that is personal fuel management and works differently (even if only slightly) in each body and brain.
+1
ETA - Yoovie, what I love about this concept is that it takes into account the bigger picture, the one that goes beyond CICO in terms of exercise. You and I make exercise a lifestyle. It's how we burn stress, gain muscle, get stronger, feel better, meet cool people and so on and so forth. It's so much more than, "I have to go to the gym just so I can eat something." And when your life becomes fitness, a donut that puts you 100 over the calorie allotment is a tiny tiny blip (if you can even call it a blip) on the big picture.
I nodded til my head fell off.
Agreed- you and I have definitely been on the other side of the whole 'making a lifestyle change.'
We already made it. A very long time ago - in fact i cant remember the mindset i used to have that needed to be changed, only that it was way wrong and hurting/hindering me and my progress and had lots to do with what I did and didn't deserve.
I workout. All the time. Because that is what my totally 100% normal natural state of existence is. I dont decide to go to the gym. The gym is where I am.
It's part of the load bearing columns of my life.
Career.
Health and Fitness.
Personal relationships.
The foundation of my entire life.
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^^ LOL
I never struggled with needing to make a life style change and took me a while to find the words that needed to be said in order to explain it to other people because I've lived most of my life like that.
But yeah- once you're in it- it's hard to remember what/if ever your life was like without it.
I do not relate to the check box mentality of "yes I got my workout in today". At all.0 -
exactly - mine is more like - ooh maybe i'll go to the other location today cause I prefer their squat rack sitch.
it's not a decision to workout.
it's part of who I am.
and I OWN that part of me.0
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