Noob: Do I really need to bulk to get goal body? PICS
BaliDream
Posts: 27
Hi everyone, hope all is well. Pre-apologies for my noobiness on bodybuilding.
I have been told to do a 'clean bulk' (eat clean, and add 500 calories to my maintenance calories per day) but I'm feeling quite resistant towards it.
I have a particular goal body in mind and I will do whatever it takes, but the idea of eating lots and gaining fat seems contradictory to the lean, toned, moderately muscular body I am aiming for. I was told to always 'lose fat, eat less' for such a long time, so this just feels very odd! (currently in my second day of bulking).
Did all these AFL (australian football league) players and other athletes who have awesome bodies have to eat a lot to gain muscle? Or did they do it another way?
What do you guys think? Do I really need to bulk to get to goal body, or is there another way that won't mean I'm always bloated/gaining fat and covering the little ab definition I had to start off with?
My current shots: http://tinypic.com/r/2vj4so1/8
My goal body: http://tinypic.com/r/2qnbmeb/8
SORRY for all the questions! Any help would be appreciated so much.
I have been told to do a 'clean bulk' (eat clean, and add 500 calories to my maintenance calories per day) but I'm feeling quite resistant towards it.
I have a particular goal body in mind and I will do whatever it takes, but the idea of eating lots and gaining fat seems contradictory to the lean, toned, moderately muscular body I am aiming for. I was told to always 'lose fat, eat less' for such a long time, so this just feels very odd! (currently in my second day of bulking).
Did all these AFL (australian football league) players and other athletes who have awesome bodies have to eat a lot to gain muscle? Or did they do it another way?
What do you guys think? Do I really need to bulk to get to goal body, or is there another way that won't mean I'm always bloated/gaining fat and covering the little ab definition I had to start off with?
My current shots: http://tinypic.com/r/2vj4so1/8
My goal body: http://tinypic.com/r/2qnbmeb/8
SORRY for all the questions! Any help would be appreciated so much.
0
Replies
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Probably yes. The goal photos you showed had more muscle (broader arms etc) so you'll need to eat at surplus and weight train to build your muscle base. Just remember that the fat gain is a side effect of your muscle goals! Also, you'll burn more calories if you're carrying more muscle so it will make losing the fat easier later on.
Athletes need to eat a lot to maintain their performance during training.0 -
Aussie footballers, rugby players, etc will generally do some sort of "Armour Building" in the off-season. You'll need a decent "meat suit" to handle the brutal impacts!
The fact is, if you want the maximum amount of muscle with the minimum fat, then you'll need to eat a smallish surplus say 250, train right, get plenty of protein and give it some time (probably a lot of time).
You should be aiming to add roughly 1/2lb a week. That's about the sweet-spot. You're already quite lean, so that's a good starting point for a successful bulk.0 -
PS clean vs dirty bulk has nothing to do with WHAT you eat- but how much surplus you eat.0
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PS clean vs dirty bulk has nothing to do with WHAT you eat- but how much surplus you eat.
Oh, good catch.
I missed that when I read his post!
Yeah, OP: Clean is generally considered to be a small surplus. Dirty, a large one..0 -
and it will take time, its not going to happen in 6-12 weeks.0
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To gain muscle you have to eat at a surplus...no other way.
I haven't done a bulk before but have read a lot of stories on here of people who have.
You don't have to get "fat" to bulk, but to get that body you want you are looking at a long road...good luck.0 -
Yes you need to bulk. You have to eat at at calorie surplus, it doesn't have to be clean. You will still need protein, fat and carbs to gain lean mass.
To gain the muscle size they did eat more and lift hard. You might have to sacrifice a bit of how you look now to reach your long term goal. Doesn't mean you immediately start eating whatever, but slowly increase your calories until you start gaining.
Here's something that helped me get over the fear of bulking: http://www.jcdfitness.com/2009/10/the-former-fat-boy-syndrome/0 -
Its taken me a year just to add 7 lbs...it's a long road. I don't seem to be as well informed as the rest of you. I need 3000 cal a day to maintain my weight0
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Maybe it's just me, but it looks like you have a normal 19-year-old body. You're not a boy, but you are definitely still growing. You should be eating all the foodz anyway. Do a considerable amount of strength training while eating all the foodz, and you'll bulk up the right way.0
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big difference between a 19 and 49 year old though, I don't process foods the same. I'm looking to bulk up too much, just would like to reach 160-170 and I would be happy0
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19...
You are WASTING probably the best time in your life to put on mass easily if you don't bulk during this time.
Heck, at 19 and a 500 cal surplus your hormones may allow you some semblence of a recomp. But EAT!!!!!0 -
Yes you have to eat in a surplus to put on weight. You can not create muscle out of the air. It has to be made out of the excess energy and materials you give your body.
Get on a proven full body weight lifting program and start increasing your calories until you start gaining weight. If you stop gaining weight then increase them again.0 -
I'm 49, not 19...I eat all day long, I just avoid carbs do to medical reasons.0
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Those guys probably have at least 20-25lbs of muscle on you. It will take years to get to that size. What better time to start now?
(PS - they're all on test/steroids/etc too, keep that in mind)0 -
(PS - they're all on test/steroids/etc too, keep that in mind)
That size and physique is definitely possible without steroids or testosterone or any other substance. I can't vouch for any of those guys specifically, but I have friends who look like them or even bigger who are all natural.0 -
Dope, these are actually highly tested athletes and operate within a very strict code (especially after the drug scandal last year!) I doubt that many of them are on significant amounts of gear.
OP, you will have to eat at a surplus and train hard, but you can certainly build a physique similar to an AFL player, You could make great inroads toward that even in your first year with a decent approach and solid (and consistent) training program.
As a basic outline, assuming you have no real history of training in the gym, I'd suggest:
Figure out what your maintenance calories are (TDEE) and eat at 500 calorie per day surplus. Monitor your weight and aim for about half a kilo per week increase. Adjust your intake accordingly to keep this progression going.
* NB your weight will shoot up during your first week or two of training if your body is not used to the stimulus - this is just water retention and don't be tempted to drop your calories.
Pick a good beginner program that works within your time constraints (3-4 days per week is the ideal). Try to go for a beginner program that focuses on compound movements. The barbell should be your main tool, not machines. Starting strength, AusBB Beginner Program or ICF 5x5 are good examples. Stronglifts 5x5 is a good minimalist program if you don't have a lot of time or you could add a couple of accessory lifts.
* NB Don't let ego get in the way when you start, work on your form with light weights and progress a little every week. This is the best way to progress as a beginner and you'll see gains for a long time (which is rewarding and will keep you motivated to get back in the gym too!)0 -
Any proof?
(PS - they're all on test/steroids/etc too, keep that in mind)0 -
(PS - they're all on test/steroids/etc too, keep that in mind)
Saying "test/steroid" is like saying "lean/shredded", steroids are just synthetic testostrone
Also, the physiques aren't actually that impressive and are all easily obtainable without the use of performance enhancers. If it had been like Jeff Seid's then I might have agreed with you.0 -
Err. AFL players I've seen don't look like John Cena or LaRon Landry. Just look like athletic guys. Highly achievable body type objective for 19yr old male.0
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Yes those are attainable physiques, yes you should be bulking.
IMO you could reach that (or something similar/etc) in a couple of years.0 -
Here are the facts as I know them. Some people have something called "genetics" and some do not. In this case "genetics" refer to the ability to build, and maintain muscle mass. Some people are really genetically gifted, and most are not. Most of us have to eat more and train harder than the "gifted" individual. That is why most people recommend eating high calorie diets, and training "hard or heavy' to achieve the most muscular physique that is possible naturally. Steroids, HGH, and research chemicals, serms,sarms insulin, etc.. are very misundertood. Different steroids and drugs have different effects. Some are bulking agents, cutting agents, receptor modulators etc... Steroids do not work the same way for everyone. Do they work? yes ! Are they for 19 year old kids who have no clue and would permanently damage their future testosterone production ? NO!!!!! You are not a professional athlete who's livelyhood depends on performance. You are not a professional bodybuilder. You are a kid who wants to gain muscle mass, and that is all. So, take a number and get in line cause you are gonna be waiting for some time. If you ask the same question and get generally the same answer, then listen. If you want fast results then you are in the wrong department here. Size and strength are measured over time. If you do not really want it bad enough to put in the time, then keep moving. Even if you tske steroids I have really bad news for all of you. You still have to eat, train just as hard, watch you kidney and liver function, eat some more. If you are not meticulous enough to put on mass naturally, then you will not have even close to what is takes to safely and effectively run a steroid cyle. Ther is no magic pill, needle, supplement that is a ****ing pipe dream. The real magic is having the smarts and the testicular fortitude to put in the work that needs to be done. You do not need steroids, or fancy supplements. I take lots of supplements, because I do all of the other things I am supposed to do in order for the "supplements" to my diet to work. Do one thing at a time. Trying to win a car race before you know how to drive is what you are doing here. BTW to everyone, professional sports are rampant with performance enhancing drugs. Many of the agents they take are undetectable, or unknown by the general population. That is the only "proof" you need. There are those who get caught, and then there is the rest. We ask for heroes, and they deliver. When we find out that the hero we created is on performance enhancers we make then villains. We build them up and then break them down. We ask for homeruns and touchdowns and wins and they deliver. We created this problem, can't any of you see that ?0
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If those guys in those pics are "ON" then they need to go "off". Cause looks to me like that **** ain't never gonna kick in. Looking like scarecrows.0
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If those guys in those pics are "ON" then they need to go "off". Cause looks to me like that **** ain't never gonna kick in. Looking like scarecrows.
:laugh: Those were my thoughts too, I just didn't feel like going there.0 -
(PS - they're all on test/steroids/etc too, keep that in mind)
Wat?
None of them are obviously. Arms/shoulders are pretty proportional to the rest of the body, none of them are all that big.
Clearly they have spent some time putting on mass, but none are anywhere near the that ain't happening without gear zone.0 -
To everyone who took the time out of their day to open those links and respond to my thread, thank you so incredibly much. It's amazing how helpful complete strangers can be.
I'd just like to point out that steroids have never even come across my mind. I don't know how the steroid topic came into this thread, but I have never even thought about taking that stuff. Always natural.
I am now prepared to fully focus on gaining mass/bulking, I am prepared for the hard work. Have been eating at a 500cal surplus for a couple of days now.
I am currently with a personal trainer (who is an AFL player himself) for another two months, 3 times a week, half an hour per session. Although we have done dead lifts/squats/chest press, I am going to ask him if we can do these three every session. I feel like I'm not going hard enough during the workouts, my muscles are never very sore or drained afterwards. Hopefully he won't mind.
Hopefully if I do this right I won't put on too much fat either over the next few years.0 -
It's great that you have yourself a PT. Most of these AFL guys have had access to top shelf coaches so should be able to steer you in the right direction.
If you only have half an hour sessions with him, the value will be getting him to coach you through good form (and pushing you) with the major compound lifts as these are the most important and most technical. You could always ask him to give you some accessory exercises to do by yourself at the end of the session if you want to increase the volume a little.
I'm sure he has a plan he's working through though, and most likely not trying to overload you in the beginning, which is a very good thing. The natural tendency for most guys is to go 'balls to the wall' and wear themselves out. The fact is that consistency and progressive overload are enough to make progress for a long time and working on form while you are not too fatigued is a great place to start.
Oh and never mine the gear talk, threads on these forums have a habit of de-railing rather quickly with incoherent rabble :laugh: . Bottom line is you are looking to get bigger and stronger, you are going about it the right way so keep at it and there is absolutely no doubt you will see some results!0 -
Hi everyone, hope all is well. Pre-apologies for my noobiness on bodybuilding.
I have been told to do a 'clean bulk' (eat clean, and add 500 calories to my maintenance calories per day) but I'm feeling quite resistant towards it.
I have a particular goal body in mind and I will do whatever it takes, but the idea of eating lots and gaining fat seems contradictory to the lean, toned, moderately muscular body I am aiming for. I was told to always 'lose fat, eat less' for such a long time, so this just feels very odd! (currently in my second day of bulking).
Did all these AFL (australian football league) players and other athletes who have awesome bodies have to eat a lot to gain muscle? Or did they do it another way?
What do you guys think? Do I really need to bulk to get to goal body, or is there another way that won't mean I'm always bloated/gaining fat and covering the little ab definition I had to start off with?
My current shots: http://tinypic.com/r/2vj4so1/8
My goal body: http://tinypic.com/r/2qnbmeb/8
SORRY for all the questions! Any help would be appreciated so much.
start adding 200 calories to your current intake... lift heavy stuff, when you hit a sticking point, repeat step 1.0 -
If you only have half an hour sessions with him, the value will be getting him to coach you through good form (and pushing you) with the major compound lifts as these are the most important and most technical.
^^ That, seriously. Invest as much time as you can with the PT to learn how to squat/deadlift/press correctly.0 -
Here are the facts as I know them. Some people have something called "genetics" and some do not. In this case "genetics" refer to the ability to build, and maintain muscle mass. Some people are really genetically gifted, and most are not. Most of us have to eat more and train harder than the "gifted" individual. That is why most people recommend eating high calorie diets, and training "hard or heavy' to achieve the most muscular physique that is possible naturally. Steroids, HGH, and research chemicals, serms,sarms insulin, etc.. are very misundertood. Different steroids and drugs have different effects. Some are bulking agents, cutting agents, receptor modulators etc... Steroids do not work the same way for everyone. Do they work? yes ! Are they for 19 year old kids who have no clue and would permanently damage their future testosterone production ? NO!!!!! You are not a professional athlete who's livelyhood depends on performance. You are not a professional bodybuilder. You are a kid who wants to gain muscle mass, and that is all. So, take a number and get in line cause you are gonna be waiting for some time. If you ask the same question and get generally the same answer, then listen. If you want fast results then you are in the wrong department here. Size and strength are measured over time. If you do not really want it bad enough to put in the time, then keep moving. Even if you tske steroids I have really bad news for all of you. You still have to eat, train just as hard, watch you kidney and liver function, eat some more. If you are not meticulous enough to put on mass naturally, then you will not have even close to what is takes to safely and effectively run a steroid cyle. Ther is no magic pill, needle, supplement that is a ****ing pipe dream. The real magic is having the smarts and the testicular fortitude to put in the work that needs to be done. You do not need steroids, or fancy supplements. I take lots of supplements, because I do all of the other things I am supposed to do in order for the "supplements" to my diet to work. Do one thing at a time. Trying to win a car race before you know how to drive is what you are doing here. BTW to everyone, professional sports are rampant with performance enhancing drugs. Many of the agents they take are undetectable, or unknown by the general population. That is the only "proof" you need. There are those who get caught, and then there is the rest. We ask for heroes, and they deliver. When we find out that the hero we created is on performance enhancers we make then villains. We build them up and then break them down. We ask for homeruns and touchdowns and wins and they deliver. We created this problem, can't any of you see that ?
^^^^
This guy knows what he's talking about. How many times have I had this discussion with people, and quoted the exact same things you mentioned. Well done sir.
Eat big, get big, leave a giant coffin.0 -
It is possible to gain some muscle (especially at age 19) without bulking. Just do compound lifts and eat plenty of protein. However, eventually you'll plateau and need to start bulking in order to continue building muscle. That said, bulking and then cutting is the most efficient way to reach your goals. However, it will probably take a number of years of serious weight lifting and strict eating to reach your goals.
Goals are important. But I'd recommend starting with more attainable goals. First set some goals for strength (eg., like bench press, squat, and pull up numbers). Once you attain them, you can either continue bulking or set some cutting goals, then rinse / repeat.0
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