Barbell Bench Press

darreneatschicken

Okay guys, so I talked to a trainer today, and he told me that it is not necessary to pinch your shoulders back and squeeze your glutes while bench pressing. He says that it is a chest exercise, and incorporating those modifications wouldn't do anything to "better" the exercise. In fact, squeezing your glutes puts more strain on your lower back... Is he right?

Also, when I am in the starting position (bar unracked, but held at the top, arms straight), I squeeze my shoulder blades back and downwards, and then proceed to do the exercise. When the bar descends, my shoulder blades pinch together even more, but I find that when I raise the bar, it is hard to keep my shoulder blades pinched together. Is this ok? It seems pretty natural to me, like your shoulder blades shouldn't be pinched together at the top, but as you descend the bar, you should focus on squeezing them together, because it feels natural. I really try to focus on having my upper body tight, shoulder blades squeezed throughout the entire motion, it's just that I find when I hit the top, it is hard to keep all that tightness until you go down again (because as you go down, your shoulder blades squeeze together naturally, although you really have to focus on this to have it happen).

Be4stm0de

Yes he's right. Squeezing your glutes and pinching your shoulders back is counterproductive to bench press. Whoever told you to pinch your shoulders back doesn't understand the bench press exercise.

darreneatschicken

Yes he's right. Squeezing your glutes and pinching your shoulders back is counterproductive to bench press.

Wow, that's actually a good thing... because I've been focusing so much on doing these two things over the past couple of weeks... worrying about how I don't have good form and such.

Now, I can just forget about it...

I just don't get why I see so much instruction on squeezing your shoulder blades and your glutes. Is all this advice on the internet bull****?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRVjAtPip0Y

Watch this link... they tell you to do both those things.

steve0820

The bench should be treated like a full body exercise and not just a chest workout

You should be setup and tight before unracking the bar as well, if you need to make any adjustments afterwards, start over. The bench is not suppose to be a comfortable exercise.

I would suggest reading and watching some Dave Tate's video's and breakdown of the bench. "So you think you can bench". He talks about the proper way to pinch the shoulder blades together and everything else you need to know about how to bench.

Everybody does bench, 90% of people don't know how to do it properly, which is why there are so many injuries

darreneatschicken

The bench should be treated like a full body exercise and not just a chest workout

You should be setup and tight before unracking the bar as well, if you need to make any adjustments afterwards, start over. The bench is not suppose to be a comfortable exercise.

I would suggest reading and watching some Dave Tate's video's and breakdown of the bench. "So you think you can bench". He talks about the proper way to pinch the shoulder blades together and everything else you need to know about how to bench.

Everybody does bench, 90% of people don't know how to do it properly, which is why there are so many injuries

So you're saying that pinching shoulder blades is good, right?

EXERCISING IS SO SUBJECTIVE.

Another trainer (different from the one I mentioned above) also says your entire body shout be tight while doing this exercise.

steve0820

The bench should be treated like a full body exercise and not just a chest workout

You should be setup and tight before unracking the bar as well, if you need to make any adjustments afterwards, start over. The bench is not suppose to be a comfortable exercise.

I would suggest reading and watching some Dave Tate's video's and breakdown of the bench. "So you think you can bench". He talks about the proper way to pinch the shoulder blades together and everything else you need to know about how to bench.

Everybody does bench, 90% of people don't know how to do it properly, which is why there are so many injuries

So you're saying that pinching shoulder blades is good, right?

EXERCISING IS SO SUBJECTIVE.

Another trainer (different from the one I mentioned above) also says your entire body shout be tight while doing this exercise.

Yup, that's correct, tight shoulder blades and lats. Best way to describe it, is trying to bend the bar in half when you're doing your setup. A lot of this is coming from what I learned through powerlifters, up until last year, I was benching wrong for probably about 10 years. An unrelated injury to my shoulder and elbow, forced me to look at all my mechanics of then bench.

I'm sure people will have different opinions, but those are mine.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

sijomial

I've been bench pressing for about 38 years now but in the last year I've changed technique twice and seen big improvements both times and significantly reduced pain in my damaged shoulder.
Don't be afraid to listen to different (expert) opinions and see how their styles work for you.

Here's an interesting instructional video.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34XRmd3a8_0

yogicarl

I'm not a lifter, but I think the following yoga principles may be helpful to answer the question.

If you were to set up a high plank, you would set the shoulder blades back towards each other and engage the rhomboid muscles. You would also not clench the glutes but you would energetically move the heels back away from the core and tilt the pelvis forward slightly.

In yoga, you can then lower to a low plank (Chaturanga dandasana) and the rhomboids are still engaged and the body is straight through the hips and out through the heels. The push back up is then coming from a firm base rather than just being an arm and pecs exercise. If the body is set up right, it feels more like a float up rather than pushing down through the floor.

Now if you turn this position upside down and engage the same muscles and principles as above, I think you may improve your bench press. Hope this helps.

steve0820

I've been bench pressing for about 38 years now but in the last year I've changed technique twice and seen big improvements both times and significantly reduced pain in my damaged shoulder.
Don't be afraid to listen to different (expert) opinions and see how their styles work for you.

Here's an interesting instructional video.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34XRmd3a8_0

Very nice video! Thanks for sharing.

darreneatschicken

UPDATE:

Practiced my bench form today:

1. Breathing in as the bar descends, and breathing out as it ascends.

2. Squeezing glutes, but trying to maintain *kitten* on the seat at the same time, make sure there is a small arch in my lower back that my hand can go through

3. Before unracking the bar, grip it hard and imagine yourself pulling the bar apart sideways. Then keeping your body tight, unrack the bar... unrack it... don't push/shove it off

4. Squeeze shoulder blades together, this causes me to bring the bar down a bit closer to my chest

5. Bring the bar down until it hits your lower chest - aim for the lower chest, I think this will keep my elbows from flaring

6. As the bar descends, focus on squeezing your shoulder blades into the bench

7. Bring the bar up, trying to maintain shoulder blades tight together (the hardest part because I find I cannot keep my shoulder blades together as I push the bar up because it is just natural for my body's shoulder blades to spread apart / lose tightness at the top)

CipherZero

I would suggest reading and watching some Dave Tate's video's and breakdown of the bench. "So you think you can bench". He talks about the proper way to pinch the shoulder blades together and everything else you need to know about how to bench.

Add me to this one. It's a seven-part video set and great for learning.

danimalkeys

UPDATE:

Practiced my bench form today:

1. Breathing in as the bar descends, and breathing out as it ascends.

2. Squeezing glutes, but trying to maintain *kitten* on the seat at the same time, make sure there is a small arch in my lower back that my hand can go through

3. Before unracking the bar, grip it hard and imagine yourself pulling the bar apart sideways. Then keeping your body tight, unrack the bar... unrack it... don't push/shove it off

4. Squeeze shoulder blades together, this causes me to bring the bar down a bit closer to my chest

5. Bring the bar down until it hits your lower chest - aim for the lower chest, I think this will keep my elbows from flaring

6. As the bar descends, focus on squeezing your shoulder blades into the bench

7. Bring the bar up, trying to maintain shoulder blades tight together (the hardest part because I find I cannot keep my shoulder blades together as I push the bar up because it is just natural for my body's shoulder blades to spread apart / lose tightness at the top)

You got it!

To me, touching low on the chest and keeping the elbows tucked in are the 2 most important things to prevent shoulder injury. A tight setup is also important as well. If you follow your list of points that you made, you will do well. Bench technique is important, and proper technique will not only help you lift more, but prevent injury.

Can you bench with a flat back, not pinching your shoulders together, and touching high on your chest with your elbows flared out? Sure, but you aren't getting the most out of the lift and you are setting yourself up for a shoulder problem when you start getting into heavier weights.

jlclabo

your set up is just as important as the lift itself. shoulders pinched, lats flared, traps tight, feet tucked to give arch in lower back, glutes and quads flexed for a stable base. you should be able to unrack the weight without having to "press" the bar, that will just lead to upper back/traps/lats losing tightness. bar grip is all dependent on your personal preference. me personally my pinkie is on the small outer rings. squeeze bar as if you are trying to pull the apart. take in deep breath before you unrack bar, then lower bar to mid/lower chest under control the whole time. touch chest(none of that bouncing crap) slight pause and press the bar as you squeeze glutes and drive heels into the floor. breath out with the press. at the top lock out, then re rack the bar or deep breath and repeat rep.

when im lifting for a pr/or at a meet, my set up takes as long as the lift itself. if not a tiny bit longer.

Sharonks

Low on chest. Being female does this mean below boobs?

jlclabo

low on chest usually refers to an inch or so below the nipples.

Sharonks

low on chest usually refers to an inch or so below the nipples.

Thanks!

steve0820

your set up is just as important as the lift itself. shoulders pinched, lats flared, traps tight, feet tucked to give arch in lower back, glutes and quads flexed for a stable base. you should be able to unrack the weight without having to "press" the bar, that will just lead to upper back/traps/lats losing tightness. bar grip is all dependent on your personal preference. me personally my pinkie is on the small outer rings. squeeze bar as if you are trying to pull the apart. take in deep breath before you unrack bar, then lower bar to mid/lower chest under control the whole time. touch chest(none of that bouncing crap) slight pause and press the bar as you squeeze glutes and drive heels into the floor. breath out with the press. at the top lock out, then re rack the bar or deep breath and repeat rep.

when im lifting for a pr/or at a meet, my set up takes as long as the lift itself. if not a tiny bit longer.

Good advice here! Sums up most of what was said.

darreneatschicken

UPDATE:

Went to the gym today, and had a different trainer (once again) critique my bench form. He said that squeezing your glutes to create a small arch in your lower back is good for targeting more muscle groups, but in my case, my core is too weak to do this. He said that in the end, I would just end up hurting myself if I continued to arch my lower back.

Hence, he told me that I should either bench with my back flat against the bench, or work on building a stronger core. He showed me how to do body rows, and said that when I can do 2 sets of 10, I will be ready to bench with an arch in my lower back. However, I could not even do one! For you guys that don't know, body rows are when you get into push-up position holding two dumbbells against the floor in a v-shaped position. Next, you raise one dumbbell off the ground, as if you were doing a normal dumbbell row, hold it up for a second, then put it down. Keep doing this while alternating dumbbells.

Since I couldn't even do one rep of body rows. He told me to do planks. Pretty self-explanatory exercise, I just have to remember to tighten my core while doing this exercise. He said to work my way up. Maybe do like 3 sets of 30 seconds, then next day try to do 3 sets of 45 seconds.

Back to bench press:

The trainer also told me that after I unrack the bar, I shouldn't shrug / pinch my shoulder blades back against the bench. This is not necessary; instead, just pretend as if you are pulling the bar apart. That will do enough for your shoulders.

Final questions:

So I have to admit, it is extremely disappointing to find out that I have such a weak core. I think this is the true reason why I haven't been able to squat properly either (not because I'm not flexible enough... well, maybe both). What other exercises (other than planks) are good to train abs? And how do you train abs? Do you do circuits (like short, intense, no-stopping training), or do you train abs like you would other muscles. Like do a set of 8 reps, rest for a minute, then do another set of 8 reps.

And also, should I stop weight training altogether until I develop a strong enough core? Since the new year, I've been trying to do StrongLifts, but I realize I can't start until I master perfect form on all the exercises and all the exercises activate your core. I feel that Pendelay rows is the only exercise I feel confident when doing. Deadlifts would be second up, although I still need to do light weight (25-35 lbs on each side) because I feel that I have a bit more to work on (squeezing my glutes more as to activate my legs during the lift, and not only use my back).

steve0820

UPDATE:

Went to the gym today, and had a different trainer (once again) critique my bench form. He said that squeezing your glutes to create a small arch in your lower back is good for targeting more muscle groups, but in my case, my core is too weak to do this. He said that in the end, I would just end up hurting myself if I continued to arch my lower back.

Hence, he told me that I should either bench with my back flat against the bench, or work on building a stronger core. He showed me how to do body rows, and said that when I can do 2 sets of 10, I will be ready to bench with an arch in my lower back. However, I could not even do one! For you guys that don't know, body rows are when you get into push-up position holding two dumbbells against the floor in a v-shaped position. Next, you raise one dumbbell off the ground, as if you were doing a normal dumbbell row, hold it up for a second, then put it down. Keep doing this while alternating dumbbells.

Since I couldn't even do one rep of body rows. He told me to do planks. Pretty self-explanatory exercise, I just have to remember to tighten my core while doing this exercise. He said to work my way up. Maybe do like 3 sets of 30 seconds, then next day try to do 3 sets of 45 seconds.

Back to bench press:

The trainer also told me that after I unrack the bar, I shouldn't shrug / pinch my shoulder blades back against the bench. This is not necessary; instead, just pretend as if you are pulling the bar apart. That will do enough for your shoulders.

Final questions:

So I have to admit, it is extremely disappointing to find out that I have such a weak core. I think this is the true reason why I haven't been able to squat properly either (not because I'm not flexible enough... well, maybe both). What other exercises (other than planks) are good to train abs? And how do you train abs? Do you do circuits (like short, intense, no-stopping training), or do you train abs like you would other muscles. Like do a set of 8 reps, rest for a minute, then do another set of 8 reps.

And also, should I stop weight training altogether until I develop a strong enough core? Since the new year, I've been trying to do StrongLifts, but I realize I can't start until I master perfect form on all the exercises and all the exercises activate your core. I feel that Pendelay rows is the only exercise I feel confident when doing. Deadlifts would be second up, although I still need to do light weight (25-35 lbs on each side) because I feel that I have a bit more to work on (squeezing my glutes more as to activate my legs during the lift, and not only use my back).

Deadlifts and Squats work great for the core, so don't stop them. Planks are a good start, l-sits (love them), v-holds, planche, toes to bar, front lever,russian twist all work the core very well. I only add the isolation exercises here and there in my workouts, the compound exercises take care of most of it.

As far as the bench, solid advice, I agree with trying to bend the bar to get the feel for your shoulders back, but this setup should be done before un-racking, after you un-rack the bar, nothing should change in your position.

PtheronJr

UPDATE:

Went to the gym today, and had a different trainer (once again) critique my bench form. He said that squeezing your glutes to create a small arch in your lower back is good for targeting more muscle groups, but in my case, my core is too weak to do this. He said that in the end, I would just end up hurting myself if I continued to arch my lower back.

Hence, he told me that I should either bench with my back flat against the bench, or work on building a stronger core.

This is utter nonsense FYI, it's like telling someone to do deadlifts rounding their lower back until their hamstrings are strong enough to take the load. It's like telling someone to arch their back in the overhead press until their shoulders are strong enough to handle the load.

It's either all or nothing, benching with your shoulder blades pinched, back arched, body tight and legs tense and ready to drive is proper form. There is no other way to bench. You pinch your shoulder blades to maximize pectoral and triceps involvement and minimize involvement from the anterior deltoid. This is why people who bench wrong complain of shoulder pain or not feeling like their chest is worked. Bracing your traps against the pad helps keep your shoulder blades in the proper position and makes sure that the angle you're pushing from places the burden of stabilization on your triceps and not your shoulders.

The reason you arch your back and push your legs against the ground while keeping the glutes tight is because this coils your body up like a spring, tension in the legs creates tension in the lower back, tension in the lower back creates tension in the upper back, tension in the upper back will keep your upper body and your pectorals and lats engaged fully and put you in a prime position to finish the lift safely and effectively.

Do not bench with your back flat. Ever. Do not bench without a slight arch and do not bench without tightening yourself up. Next thing you know he'll be having you benching with your legs up in order to increase "core strength."
Yes, your core might be too weak to handle heavier weight, but that's just like any other lift, it means you aren't strong enough to do it. Keep the weight light and work up from there, keeping proper form at all times.

Bending the par, as an aside, is literally said because it's a cue for keeping your shoulder blades pinched back and your arms tucked in so he's telling you not to do something while at the same time telling you to do exactly what he told you not to do.

dinosnopro

I would suggest reading and watching some Dave Tate's video's and breakdown of the bench. "So you think you can bench". He talks about the proper way to pinch the shoulder blades together and everything else you need to know about how to bench.

Add me to this one. It's a seven-part video set and great for learning.

^^^ This is a great set of videos. Here is a search link to help you find them.

//www.google.com/search?q=so+you+think+you+can+bench&rlz=1C1FLDB_enUS565US565&oq=so+you+think+you+can+bench&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.10833j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

darreneatschicken

The trainer also told me that after I unrack the bar, I shouldn't shrug / pinch my shoulder blades back against the bench. This is not necessary; instead, just pretend as if you are pulling the bar apart. That will do enough for your shoulders.

As the bar descends, do I focus on squeezing my shoulder blades together against the bench (while also pretending to pull the bar apart)? Or is pretending as if I am pulling the bar apart throughout the entire movement good enough?

steve0820

The trainer also told me that after I unrack the bar, I shouldn't shrug / pinch my shoulder blades back against the bench. This is not necessary; instead, just pretend as if you are pulling the bar apart. That will do enough for your shoulders.

As the bar descends, do I focus on squeezing my shoulder blades together against the bench (while also pretending to pull the bar apart)? Or is pretending as if I am pulling the bar apart throughout the entire movement good enough?

Grip hard throughout the whole movement. I agree with not changing anything after you unrack, but not for the reason the trainer is claiming. After you unrack the bar, nothing should change from your movements and the tension should be kept.. The bar is kept in position over the chest, locked out, wait 2-3 secs, then start lowering the bar. Descend slowly and controlled, elbows about 45 degrees, not 90 like most do, once your reach nipple level or just below, explode back up. Rinse and repeat.

SezxyStef

After watching Dave tates series I learned so much about my bench...and it has improved greatly. So I agree with the posters who reference this...I am tight (my husband tests it by nudging me) my arch is good shoulders squeezed etc...

The entire series he does is great...

Collier78

The trainer also told me that after I unrack the bar, I shouldn't shrug / pinch my shoulder blades back against the bench. This is not necessary; instead, just pretend as if you are pulling the bar apart. That will do enough for your shoulders.

As the bar descends, do I focus on squeezing my shoulder blades together against the bench (while also pretending to pull the bar apart)? Or is pretending as if I am pulling the bar apart throughout the entire movement good enough?

Grip hard throughout the whole movement. I agree with not changing anything after you unrack, but not for the reason the trainer is claiming. After you unrack the bar, nothing should change from your movements and the tension should be kept.. The bar is kept in position over the chest, locked out, wait 2-3 secs, then start lowering the bar. Descend slowly and controlled, elbows about 45 degrees, not 90 like most do, once your reach nipple level or just below, explode back up. Rinse and repeat.

^^THIS...and I agree with everyone except the very first poster. The Dave Tate series is great and very beneficial. Alsok I'm not sure about what Gym you go to, but I know some of the franchise gyms like Planet Fitness and Gold's Express don't even require their trainers to be certified. They will stick any jo jo that has a decent physique in a t-shirt and call him a trainer..I'm not sure if this is the case where you are, but it could be why you are getting such varying opinions.

JoRocka

I am hesitant to say that the bench ONLY a compound lift with an arch.

I think flat benching has it's purposes- IMO-

I think knowing the difference between a whole body compound bench and a very isolated flat chest press is important. I personally compound bench- but I do flat press occasionally and I know the difference between the two.

But I would agree- learning to arch and properly prep is wildly important.

As a said note- or addendum if you will I think it's silly to assume you can get max arch and proper technique right off the bat and make any great gains at the same time - I've been benching for years- I'm still working out technique kinks- and I have a for shi*t arch (compared to competitive lifters) and can still push body weight.

It takes work to really develop a GOOD arch- it takes work- mobility and a lot of stability- you can't just cram yourself into that position and expect to be any good. It's a process. Takes time to develop the technique as well as develop the strength.

danimalkeys

I am hesitant to say that the bench ONLY a compound lift with an arch.

I think flat benching has it's purposes- IMO-

I think knowing the difference between a whole body compound bench and a very isolated flat chest press is important. I personally compound bench- but I do flat press occasionally and I know the difference between the two.

But I would agree- learning to arch and properly prep is wildly important.

As a said note- or addendum if you will I think it's silly to assume you can get max arch and proper technique right off the bat and make any great gains at the same time - I've been benching for years- I'm still working out technique kinks- and I have a for shi*t arch (compared to competitive lifters) and can still push body weight.

It takes work to really develop a GOOD arch- it takes work- mobility and a lot of stability- you can't just cram yourself into that position and expect to be any good. It's a process. Takes time to develop the technique as well as develop the strength.

Couldn't agree more. I had way more arch and better technique when I was 75lbs heavier, because I lifted that way all the time with heavy weights. I once had a world class bencher compliment me on my setup and technique, so I must have been doing something right lol. Now I'm lifting for fitness after a good bit of time off, and find that getting that old arch back isn't as easy.

JoRocka

It'll come!!!

You had it before- but you can get it again LOL. Mine is slowly coming- I'm trying to compete in June- so getting a super aggressive arch is kind of on the "to do" list.

I practice the arch with lighter weight on purpose- it sucks but it's working.

HMVOL7409

Tagging for later.

jwdieter

A lot of benches are set up with the bar too high for smaller people. Proper starting height was mentioned earlier but bears repeating for emphasis.