Building Muscle on a calorie deficit?
KBmoments
Posts: 193 Member
I am trying to build more muscle (more weights, less cardio), but I also need to lose about 5-8 pounds of fat . I read that you can't build muscle that well on a calorie deficit. But... if I don't eat at a calorie deficit, how will I lose the fat? I'm thinking if I eat at a maintenance level or above to gain muscle - I'll still have fat on top of the muscle.... Can anyone debunk this for me? How would you go about it?
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If you are doing strength training, that will help you lose the fat. However, it is very hard, near impossible to build muscle while on a caloric deficit. Your muscles need extra nutrition and calories in order to repair themselves and actually grow. I'd say if you want to gain muscle, and lose fat, increase your calories to over maintenance, and you'll see that fat disappear. Or, just add strength training to your regime now, and you'll still see the fat drop off.0
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I would like to hear the answer to this too0
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If you lose fat your muscles will be more visible which is in all likelihood what you want. It is almost impossible for us mere mortals to build muscle on a deficit. Exercise (the retain your muscle) eat at a deficit and you'll lose the fat0
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As mentioned, its nearly impossible to gain muscle while on a deficit. However, its very possible to lose fat, and maintain muscle while eating at maintenance or even slight surplus - which is my recommendation.
Begin a moderate to heavy lifting program with light to moderate cardio (just to maintain your cardio) at or around maintenance calories. While the scale may not move very much, you should find that your body composition (fat vs muscle) changes in just the way you want. Good luck!0 -
I am trying to build more muscle (more weights, less cardio), but I also need to lose about 5-8 pounds of fat . I read that you can't build muscle that well on a calorie deficit. But... if I don't eat at a calorie deficit, how will I lose the fat? I'm thinking if I eat at a maintenance level or above to gain muscle - I'll still have fat on top of the muscle.... Can anyone debunk this for me? How would you go about it?
No...can't debunk because it is truth. To build muscle requires a calorie surplus...just as it requires a calorie surplus to "build" fat stores. Anabolic is anabolic whether you are talking about fat or muscle and you cannot be both catabolic and anabolic at the same time. If it were possible to gain muscle on a deficit, it would also be possible to gain fat at a deficit of energy Basically, this is why people go through cut and bulk cycles...it is the most efficient way of cutting fat and then bulking on lean mass...but you always put back on a little fat as well with a bulk, so you have to cut that fat again.
While you are cutting fat you weight train to preserve that muscle...because it's really, really, really, really, really, really, really.....really hard to build. Very often, people mistake that uncovering of the muscle to be new muscle growth...it is not...it was always there...it was just covered up and may not have been as firm...your muscles also retain a lot of fluids when you train them, thus giving them a "pumped" look0 -
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html
tl;dr: Unless you overfat and a beginner, it is very very hard.0 -
As mentioned, its nearly impossible to gain muscle while on a deficit. However, its very possible to lose fat, and maintain muscle while eating at maintenance or even slight surplus - which is my recommendation.
Begin a moderate to heavy lifting program with light to moderate cardio (just to maintain your cardio) at or around maintenance calories. While the scale may not move very much, you should find that your body composition (fat vs muscle) changes in just the way you want. Good luck!
Thank you!0 -
As mentioned, its nearly impossible to gain muscle while on a deficit. However, its very possible to lose fat, and maintain muscle while eating at maintenance or even slight surplus - which is my recommendation.
Okay, there are some errors in this statement that need to be cleared up.
If you're "eating at maintenance or even slight surplus" then you will stay the same weight or go up. So if you're losing fat, and your weight stays the same or goes up, then what's taking the place of the lost fat? If you can't gain muscle while losing fat, then eating at maintenance would mean not losing any fat and not gaining any muscle.
The thing is, it is not "nearly impossible" to lose fat while gaining muscle. It's actually quite easy. What it isn't, however, is fast. So most bodybuilding types would rather spend a few months adding muscle and fat at a surplus, which happens faster, and then cut the fat afterwards. If you're willing to go up and down in BF%, overall it's a quicker and more efficient way of doing it.0 -
On a calorie deficit, it's near improbable to build muscle especially if one is near a normal range of weight for their body type. Adding muscle means adding tissue and on a deficit, the energy balance would be in a negative. A negative energy balance is a catabolic and one doesn't build muscle in a catabolic phase.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
As mentioned, its nearly impossible to gain muscle while on a deficit. However, its very possible to lose fat, and maintain muscle while eating at maintenance or even slight surplus - which is my recommendation.
Begin a moderate to heavy lifting program with light to moderate cardio (just to maintain your cardio) at or around maintenance calories. While the scale may not move very much, you should find that your body composition (fat vs muscle) changes in just the way you want. Good luck!
Thank you!
Just as an FYI, this is an extremely slow....like..
kind of slow. I'm actually partial to re-comp because I have no desire to put on significantly more mass than I already have because I already have a decent amount and am fine with it, and I'm not under any illusions that I'm going to get ripped in a few months doing this.
Re-comp is extremely slow...like not weeks or months...like years. Another reason why people looking to lose significant amounts of fat and/or put on any substantial muscle go the bulk and cut route.
So really, you'll want to sit down and consider what you're really after here...do you want/need to build significant mass or just do a body re-comp?0 -
http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/
http://scoobysworkshop.com/toning/
I went to these when I started to weight lift. I found them helpful. Good luck
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I am struggling with the same exact problem. There's a lot if conflicting information out there.0
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Shoot, maybe I should have re-phrased to "reveal muscle tone" versus "build muscle". I am lifting 3 x a week and gaining new muscle ( I can see and feel it) - but I want that stubborn fat off the arms to see it more! Hope that makes sense.0
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As mentioned, its nearly impossible to gain muscle while on a deficit. However, its very possible to lose fat, and maintain muscle while eating at maintenance or even slight surplus - which is my recommendation.
Okay, there are some errors in this statement that need to be cleared up.
If you're "eating at maintenance or even slight surplus" then you will stay the same weight or go up. So if you're losing fat, and your weight stays the same or goes up, then what's taking the place of the lost fat? If you can't gain muscle while losing fat, then eating at maintenance would mean not losing any fat and not gaining any muscle.
The thing is, it is not "nearly impossible" to lose fat while gaining muscle. It's actually quite easy. What it isn't, however, is fast. So most bodybuilding types would rather spend a few months adding muscle and fat at a surplus, which happens faster, and then cut the fat afterwards. If you're willing to go up and down in BF%, overall it's a quicker and more efficient way of doing it.
Actually what was said was it is nearly impossible to build muscle while on a deficet no the bolded part in your statement.
With a body recomp you are at maintenance or a slight surplus where you are building muscle and losing fat at the same time, basically BF% is going down while you maintain your weight. This can be done by upping calories on lifting days and lowering on off days.
It is a slow process and if you are the slighest impatient it is best to maintain your muscle while in a deficet, by lifting in a progressive load program and getting in that protien.
That is what I am doing now...my bf% has dropped almost 8% this year, weight has gone down 44lbs and I have managed to maintain almost all my LBM from June forward which to me is amazing....0 -
Shoot, maybe I should have re-phrased to "reveal muscle tone" versus "build muscle". I am lifting 3 x a week and gaining new muscle ( I can see and feel it) - but I want that stubborn fat off the arms to see it more! Hope that makes sense.
re-comp...it will be slow. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen in 30Ds or 90Xs like the DVD marketing people want to make you think. It's a long process...frankly, for most people I know it is a life long process...they're never 100% happy...always something to improve on.
At most, eat at a very small deficit...like 1/2 Lb per week at the most to cut the fat...but really, your lifting will be notably better eating at maintenance.0 -
Shoot, maybe I should have re-phrased to "reveal muscle tone" versus "build muscle". I am lifting 3 x a week and gaining new muscle ( I can see and feel it) - but I want that stubborn fat off the arms to see it more! Hope that makes sense.
You are losing fat if you can see the muscle (because again you aren't building any new muscle)
You just have to keep at it...it's a process...I've been lifting for 25weeks and I saw real results on week 18 with my bum (gotta love squats), my shoulders were more defined at week 10, back is getting there too.
Just make sure you are getting enough protien.0 -
Allow me to second what SezxyStef said - getting enough protein (around 1gram per pound) is going to be important in maintaining your muscle mass while losing fat.
Also, Sez, thanks for "clarifying/defending" my statement. I didn't want to be the one to possibly cause an arguement with that poster and derail the thread 0 -
It is not possible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.0
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http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/
http://scoobysworkshop.com/toning/
I went to these when I started to weight lift. I found them helpful. Good luck
scooby... lol0 -
Eat in a calorie deficit and weight train with heavy weights. You may not build muscle but the muscle you have will be revealed by shredding the fat on top of it.
If you are not happy after losing that weight, then you can eat at maintenance or slightly above to increase your muscle mass.0 -
If you have a fairly athletic build, you may feel like you are getting results fast by just cutting body fat. I have been exercising for 90 days and tracking calories for about a month. I've lost a total of 8 lbs and I can see a big difference. I have progress picks of my back because that was my problem area if you want to get an idea. I would have thought I needed more muscle too, but it turns out I really just needed to burn some fat.0
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It is not possible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.
sure okay...I'd like to see the proof of that...got those studies handy I hope...
ETA: great link in this post http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/818594-building-muscle-and-losing-fat-at-the-same-time0 -
Consistent calorie deficit and keep your workouts intense. In fact, try resting just 30 seconds between sets.Shoot, maybe I should have re-phrased to "reveal muscle tone" versus "build muscle". I am lifting 3 x a week and gaining new muscle ( I can see and feel it) - but I want that stubborn fat off the arms to see it more! Hope that makes sense.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
bump0
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It is not possible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.
sure okay...I'd like to see the proof of that...got those studies handy I hope...
ETA: great link in this post http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/818594-building-muscle-and-losing-fat-at-the-same-time
I'd like to see proof that proves me wrong. Heck, maybe someone's discovered something magical that's worthwhile for a try that I haven't read up on yet.
I'd really love to see relevant and truthful studies showing that it's possible to do both at the same time.0 -
You guys are awesome ! Thanks for all of your advice and information! Very helpful.0
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The answer to this is very simple.
Your metabolism has two phases. Anabolic and catabolic.
In an anabolic state your metabolism is making your body gain weight. that can mean muscle gain in the case where your muscles are under stress - ergo strength training and you are in a caloric surpruls, or fat gain in the case when your body is not under physical stress but you are still in a caloric surplus. In this case your body will simply deposit the extra nutrients you eat in the forms of fat - mainly the reason why most of us are here in the first place.
The second would be the catabolic state, which occurs when your body is in a caloric deficit. Now the first thing to remember here is that your body is smart. It didnt deposit all that fat while you were in an anabolic state for nothing. If you are trying to loose weight, your metabolisms first choice will be to consume the amount of fat already deposited (it is a bit more complicated than that taking into account pre workout meals and such but bottom line is this). In the case when you are NOT giving your body enough nutrition to sustain your current BASIC caloric needs, your metabolism starts breaking down muscle - that is the GOOD sutff obviously.
So that brings us to the conclusion that if your body is an anabolic state you will mostly fain weight. If that is backed up by weight training you will MOSTLY be gaining muscle and a little bit of fat. If you are not exercising and just eating extra calories you will be gaining fat. On the opposite side if your body is in a catabolic state and you severely reduce your food intake (which most people try to achieve with senseless 500 calorie diets) you will be loosing mostly muscle weight. That being said it is the reason why most people recommend strength trainging along diets in loosing weight so the majority of weight dropped will be fat and not muscle loss.
To summ it all up it is IMPOSSIBLE, and by that I mean there is scientific proof that you CANNOT BUILD MUSCLE IN A CATABOLIC STATE. However by strength training you ensure that you are indeed loosing 90% fat and not muscle (this is a number totally pulled out of my *kitten*). Logically it follows up that if you are looking to gain muscle weight and not fat you would be following the same routine in a caloric surplus, where you would be gaining mostly muscle instead of fat.
It is the reason why the whole body building world is built around bulk/cut cycles. There is much more to this as far as what you actually eat but you will have to look up on some nutrient guides yourself for that.
I know this is a kind of long post but there are so many people getting these basic concepts wrong. I merely try to help if there are people taking the time to read it 0 -
As mentioned, its nearly impossible to gain muscle while on a deficit. However, its very possible to lose fat, and maintain muscle while eating at maintenance or even slight surplus - which is my recommendation.
Okay, there are some errors in this statement that need to be cleared up.
If you're "eating at maintenance or even slight surplus" then you will stay the same weight or go up. So if you're losing fat, and your weight stays the same or goes up, then what's taking the place of the lost fat? If you can't gain muscle while losing fat, then eating at maintenance would mean not losing any fat and not gaining any muscle.
The thing is, it is not "nearly impossible" to lose fat while gaining muscle. It's actually quite easy. What it isn't, however, is fast. So most bodybuilding types would rather spend a few months adding muscle and fat at a surplus, which happens faster, and then cut the fat afterwards. If you're willing to go up and down in BF%, overall it's a quicker and more efficient way of doing it.
And we have a winner!
Last couple of months I've weighed pretty much the same...and yet my pants are loser (Based on the belt I wear needing a new hole punched in it), calipers say I have less body fat, and I am starting to see more definition. And the whole time eating at a deficit.
If I am losing fat, getting smaller, but staying at the same weight, something denser has to be replacing it.
Friend of mine is complaining she is down dress sizes, but still the same weight, but happy to report she is getting stronger...as in started struggling benching the bar alone, to now adding plates on it and doing sets. And her pics show she is getting definition (caption like "OMG! A bicep!")...so, smaller, more defined, same weight. Gee, what could it be?0 -
It is not possible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.
sure okay...I'd like to see the proof of that...got those studies handy I hope...
ETA: great link in this post http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/818594-building-muscle-and-losing-fat-at-the-same-time
I'd like to see proof that proves me wrong. Heck, maybe someone's discovered something magical that's worthwhile for a try that I haven't read up on yet.
I'd really love to see relevant and truthful studies showing that it's possible to do both at the same time.
The article in the link from Lyle McDonald addresses it. As for studies Lyle discusses many on his website where the above article is from.
As well it is well known that "noob" gains are real and happen during a deficet while they are losing fat along with those who are obese who start lifting.0 -
Out of curiosity what would you 'experts' say the difference it will have physique wise to maintain or just plump the lbm you have v.s. adding a small amount of muscle? I find this fascinating. (What would be the advantage of putting on muscle v.s. working on the muscle you have) :flowerforyou:0
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