Are you guys for or against childhood vaccines?
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I'm a very all-natural type and I still got my kids vaccinated. I'm a doula, an earth-mother type, I insist on picking our own fresh organic foods, we have a freezer full of moose and fish caught in our own Canadian wilderness, breastfed, birthed my own babies at home yadda yadda crunchy etc, and I still insisted on vaccinations.0
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I am pro vaccines, however. I do not get the flu shot since I never get the flu. Wife does get the flu shot per doctors recommendations. There is a better chance of the wife bringing how the flu and giving it to me.
If i thought the vaccine would help I would get it. But as a person who has had the flu twice in 10 years, ya I am not going to get it. However i would give it to kids.0 -
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:drinker: :flowerforyou:0 -
:drinker: :flowerforyou:
Of course you support that. If it's pseudoscience you're sure to be there. lmfao0 -
:drinker: :flowerforyou:
Of course you support that. If it's pseudoscience you're sure to be there. lmfao
If your only purpose here is to hurl insults, I suggest you go somewhere else in the forums, S.O.B. You have ignored all of the scientific articles from reputable sources that I have posted in this thread. :laugh: back atcha'!0 -
:drinker: :flowerforyou:
Of course you support that. If it's pseudoscience you're sure to be there. lmfao
If your only purpose here is to hurl insults, I suggest you go somewhere else in the forums, S.O.B. You have ignored all of the scientific articles from reputable sources that I have posted in this thread. :laugh: back atcha'!
You wouldn't know a reputable source if your life depended on it, but please do carry on. I'll continue to be entertained by the Internet.0 -
that article is 20 years old :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
this and the science supporting it has been completely debunked and this will provide links to the peer reviewed reports debunking this crap
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/02/03/the-clueless-cite-the-ignorant/0 -
*looks around*
*realizes she somehow ended up in middle school*
*walks back out*0 -
:drinker: :flowerforyou:
Of course you support that. If it's pseudoscience you're sure to be there. lmfao
If your only purpose here is to hurl insults, I suggest you go somewhere else in the forums, S.O.B. You have ignored all of the scientific articles from reputable sources that I have posted in this thread. :laugh: back atcha'!
You wouldn't know a reputable source if your life depended on it, but please do carry on. I'll continue to be entertained by the Internet.
And yet another insult? I agree with you on the internet being entertaining. Would you consider PubMed an unreliable source? How about the CDC and the National Institutes of Health? In this thread, I have posted articles from all three. You are out of line.0 -
jesus is this still going o.O0
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this and the science supporting it has been completely debunked and this will provide links to the peer reviewed reports debunking this crap
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/02/03/the-clueless-cite-the-ignorant/
Science is no longer what it used to be. It has been politicized. Dollars go a long way toward buying loyalty among scientists, politicians, and "professionals" of every stripe. I had a scientist once admit to me that, for the right amount of grant money, many scientists would fudge results to have them support what the monied interest was paying for. That is the kind of corruption that currently surrounds us. Getting angry with those who can see that the Emperor is indeed naked will not change a thing. Do you also defend the banksters who have been robbing the American government (and thus the American people) to the tune of trillions of dollars? And nowhere is there a peep of protest from the conventional media. A few brave souls speak up but their voices are drowned out by the distractions invented to keep the masses entertained. You really cannot be sure of any "truth" other than knowing that the "official" story is probably a lie.0 -
this and the science supporting it has been completely debunked and this will provide links to the peer reviewed reports debunking this crap
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/02/03/the-clueless-cite-the-ignorant/
Science is no longer what it used to be. It has been politicized. Dollars go a long way toward buying loyalty among scientists, politicians, and "professionals" of every stripe. I had a scientist once admit to me that, for the right amount of grant money, many scientists would fudge results to have them support what the monied interest was paying for. That is the kind of corruption that currently surrounds us. Getting angry with those who can see that the Emperor is indeed naked will not change a thing. Do you also defend the banksters who have been robbing the American government (and thus the American people) to the tune of trillions of dollars? And nowhere is there a peep of protest from the conventional media. A few brave souls speak up but their voices are drowned out by the distractions invented to keep the masses entertained. You really cannot be sure of any "truth" other than knowing that the "official" story is probably a lie.
you understand the nature of peer reviewed science at the academic level world wide do you not. An anecdotal comment from one scientist does not invalidate a proven system (I have many friends in the academic world at the university level. Not one would believe the emperor has no clothes in the case of vaccines - which have saved literally millions of lives and millions more from misery since they became widespread and common
Once again show me a peer reviewed study from any respected source world wide that supports the anti vac stance and i will listen. Right now I put anti vac right up there with the Contrail Conspiracy crowd sorry but unless you can show with sciuence that vaccines are bad then i'll stick with the science that it is good (and you should know better as you are of an age to have seen what some of these horrible diseases that have been near eradicated can do. I went to school with polio victims, have a cousin deaf due to rubella.... another cousin died as a young child of whooping cough.
not to mention diseases that are making a comeback due to this idiocy like TB...0 -
jesus is this still going o.O
it's like putting a red flag in front of a bull when i see these things I can't help myself:laugh:
It's even worse when it comes to politics0 -
Polio, smallpox.
Two reasons I am for vaccines.
One of my friend's mother had polio as a child. She was a wonderful women, but that illness left her stuck in a wheelchair with oxygen for most of her life, and shortened her life.0 -
this and the science supporting it has been completely debunked and this will provide links to the peer reviewed reports debunking this crap
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/02/03/the-clueless-cite-the-ignorant/
Science is no longer what it used to be. It has been politicized. Dollars go a long way toward buying loyalty among scientists, politicians, and "professionals" of every stripe. I had a scientist once admit to me that, for the right amount of grant money, many scientists would fudge results to have them support what the monied interest was paying for. That is the kind of corruption that currently surrounds us. Getting angry with those who can see that the Emperor is indeed naked will not change a thing. Do you also defend the banksters who have been robbing the American government (and thus the American people) to the tune of trillions of dollars? And nowhere is there a peep of protest from the conventional media. A few brave souls speak up but their voices are drowned out by the distractions invented to keep the masses entertained. You really cannot be sure of any "truth" other than knowing that the "official" story is probably a lie.
you understand the nature of peer reviewed science at the academic level world wide do you not. An anecdotal comment from one scientist does not invalidate a proven system (I have many friends in the academic world at the university level. Not one would believe the emperor has no clothes in the case of vaccines - which have saved literally millions of lives and millions more from misery since they became widespread and common
Once again show me a peer reviewed study from any respected source world wide that supports the anti vac stance and i will listen. Right now I put anti vac right up there with the Contrail Conspiracy crowd sorry but unless you can show with sciuence that vaccines are bad then i'll stick with the science that it is good (and you should know better as you are of an age to have seen what some of these horrible diseases that have been near eradicated can do. I went to school with polio victims, have a cousin deaf due to rubella.... another cousin died as a young child of whooping cough.
not to mention diseases that are making a comeback due to this idiocy like TB...
And how would you know how old I am? I have stated before in this thread that I am not actually anti-vaccine. But I am pro-examining all sides of the issue and using SCIENCE to do so. It is a FACT (reported in legitimate media outlets like the Toronto Star) that Baxter sent out a sample of H3N2 seasonal flu virus (spiked with an unlabeled H1N1, by the way) that was contaminated with live H5N1 avian flu virus (kill rate of 60%) with no explanation of how it got there or whether it would possibly happen again. Four European countries are investigating the incident.
It is a FACT that, "...in 2006, the Bayer Corporation discovered that their injection drug, which was used by hemophiliacs, was contaminated with the HIV virus. Internal documents prove that after they positively knew that the drug was contaminated, they took it off the U.S. market only to dump it on the European, Asian and Latin American markets, knowingly exposing thousands, most of them children, to the live HIV virus. Government officials in France went to prison for allowing the drug to be distributed. The documents show that the FDA colluded with Bayer to cover-up the scandal and allowed the deadly drug to be distributed globally. No Bayer executives ever faced arrest or prosecution in the United States..."
And you want us to trust them?0 -
Transferred a 1 month old baby to the NICU from my emergency department with pertussis ... have no idea if they lived or died. It was horrendous.
I am definitely pro-vaccine.
Even if every adult or older child in the family had been vaccinated (which is unlikely), that is no assurance that the baby would not have contracted the bordetella p. infection. The best insurance against infection in newborns is breast feeding---the mother's immunity is passed through her breastmilk. And that is the case with all infectious diseases--and there are many for which we do NOT have vaccines (and likely never will have). Vaccines are not some magic elixir.
Of course the baby could still contract whooping cough, nobody is saying vaccines are 100% effective - but chances are MUCH lower and chances of severe disease are MUCH lower.
The mother will also only pass the immunity she has - unless the mother has contracted whooping cough or been vaccinated for whooping cough in last 7 - 10 years, she will not be passing on whooping cough immunity.
Some immunity lasts longer than others - whooping cough is relatively short lasting.0 -
"...However disease when it occurs in vaccinated people is almost always MUCH less severe than when occurring in unvaccinated people... "
Yes--and that is part of the confounding problem. The real danger of pertussis is for those who are quite young--it can be lethal in a baby. The fact that older children in the family have been vaccinated means that they could have a mild pertussis infection and it would go unnoticed until baby brother or sister comes down with a full-blown case. If the older child's immunity from the vaccine has waned (and pertussis vaccine is one of the worst in that category as its protection wanes very quickly) then they can become walking infection vectors.
I am not getting your point - how does what you have said mean vaccination is not worth while?0 -
this and the science supporting it has been completely debunked and this will provide links to the peer reviewed reports debunking this crap
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/02/03/the-clueless-cite-the-ignorant/
Science is no longer what it used to be. It has been politicized. Dollars go a long way toward buying loyalty among scientists, politicians, and "professionals" of every stripe. I had a scientist once admit to me that, for the right amount of grant money, many scientists would fudge results to have them support what the monied interest was paying for. That is the kind of corruption that currently surrounds us. Getting angry with those who can see that the Emperor is indeed naked will not change a thing. Do you also defend the banksters who have been robbing the American government (and thus the American people) to the tune of trillions of dollars? And nowhere is there a peep of protest from the conventional media. A few brave souls speak up but their voices are drowned out by the distractions invented to keep the masses entertained. You really cannot be sure of any "truth" other than knowing that the "official" story is probably a lie.
you understand the nature of peer reviewed science at the academic level world wide do you not. An anecdotal comment from one scientist does not invalidate a proven system (I have many friends in the academic world at the university level. Not one would believe the emperor has no clothes in the case of vaccines - which have saved literally millions of lives and millions more from misery since they became widespread and common
Once again show me a peer reviewed study from any respected source world wide that supports the anti vac stance and i will listen. Right now I put anti vac right up there with the Contrail Conspiracy crowd sorry but unless you can show with sciuence that vaccines are bad then i'll stick with the science that it is good (and you should know better as you are of an age to have seen what some of these horrible diseases that have been near eradicated can do. I went to school with polio victims, have a cousin deaf due to rubella.... another cousin died as a young child of whooping cough.
not to mention diseases that are making a comeback due to this idiocy like TB...
Hmmm-TB, eh? Here, have a look at what Health Canada has to say on the subject: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/health-canada-unsure-when-tb-vaccine-will-be-available-1.1144593
"...Health Canada says it is unsure when it will get more BCG vaccine for tuberculosis. The vaccine was voluntarily recalled last week by the only Canadian maker, Sanofi Pasteur. The company said it had concerns about the vaccine's safety after problems at its Ontario plant. Dr. Paul Gully, the senior medical adviser with Health Canada, told CBC News the department has contacted five international manufacturers of BCG and have already heard back from some.
"We have to work on the issue of ensuring ourselves, and this would be Health Canada, that the vaccine, if it's available, is safe, efficacious — in other words, it works, and [it’s] of high quality," Gully said in a telephone interview with CBC News..."
Gee, maybe the people at Health Canada actually care more about their citizens than their counterparts at the FDA? It certainly would be nice to think so.0
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