Help me critique my plan to escape skinny fatness!

shawnreisner

I've been dieting and doing cardio for a little over a week now and after doing some reading, I've realized that that's not the route I should take to get the body I want (at least I don't think). I'm interested in looking muscular, but not bulky. Maybe "skinny muscular" would be the right term. By dieting and doing cardio, it looks like I'll be losing muscle and not fat, which isn't desirable. I've decided to start over and rethink my strategy, and with such a great community, I'd love it if some of you guys or girls could help me out.

Before I get into details, please, I'm begging you, don't turn this thread into an argument over the term "skinny fat". You know what I mean. I know what I mean. We're using language to communicate ideas, and as long as we're on the same page, that's great. That being said, if we're not on the same page, and you want to know what I look like, here are a couple of pictures I took yesterday:

I don't know how to make this a link --> http://imgur.com/a/inUSj

Now, whether you agree or disagree with use of the term, I don't have to hear about it. Everybody is now on the same page.

Anyway, here's my plan!

I'm a 22 year old male, 5'10", 165 pounds, my scale tells me I have 16% body fat (although it was a cheap scale so you be the judge).

MFP estimates my TDEE is around 2100 calories, so I intend to eat around 2100 calories per day. The macronutrient makeup of my diet will be roughly 20% carbs, 20% fats, 60% protein. During this time, I'm going to do these bodyweight exercises every other day:
- Squats
- Pushups
- Planks
- Lunges
- Tricep dips
- Bicycles
- Kick downs
- Burpees
- Mountain climbers
- Wall sits

I'm not sure if I should do all of these every time I work out, or if I should vary them. If I could just destroy my whole body every time I work out that would be the preference though (I may feel differently about that once I begin).

I want to do cardio, but I don't know if it's advised to do so or not.

I hope that by doing things this way, I'll lose some weight while gaining muscle (I won't be eating back exercise calories). My thoughts on this are that I maintain except for when I work out, at which I'm at a deficit. Weight lost won't be muscle since I'm eating so much protein and working out those muscles. I hope that during this time my body shape will change and I'll look leaner.

I have some questions.

1. What are your opinions on this? Have any of you had similar or very different processes with good/bad results?
2. What are your suggestions on variance in terms of those body weight exercises? Should I add/subtract any exercises from this list?
3. How many of each exercise should I do?
4. Should I be trying to gain weight first, then cut, as some people suggest, or does my plan seem reasonable?
5. Should I include cardio in my routine? I'd like to, but I don't know if it will help me reach my goal faster or impede my progress.

Listen, if you made it this far into my post, I have to let you know how much it means to me. I love the community here on MFP so far, and I really appreciate the time you took out of your day to help a stranger out. Thank you.

SoDamnHungry

Cardio is NOT bad. Cardio won't make you fat, and it's great for your heart and lungs. Plus...the more cardio you do, the more food you get to eat. However, it won't help you gain muscle, which is why you should do both cardio and weight training. Both are awesome for you.

I'll let the rest of the peeps help with your routine. But it looks like you have a varied routine so far.

WildBillR

In for the advice as well.

ashleearoha

I really want to give you some feedback and I hope it helps!
Why are you only doing bodyweight exercises? Lack of access to a gym?
If you want to be "skinny muscular" then you will be looking to decrease body fat so i think cardio is perfectly fine! In conjunction with muscle building exercises it would be beneficial. Also if you are doing all those exercises in a circuit with minimal rest periods then that is enough to be a cardio workout anyway.
I think if you have access to a gym or weights you should try weighted exercises, it wont make you bulky if you use high reps and a lower weight.
I find the most useful info on bodybuilding.com. You can find good articles even if you arent aiming to get bulky.
I hope you find some of this useful. I am no expert and this is just my personal opinion.

Of_Monsters_and_Meat

It would be better if you could get to a gym and get some free weights (barbells)

I would not to ALL of those every day.

maybe

Monday
Squats
Lunges
burpees


Wed
Pushups
Mountain climbers
wall sits

Friday
squats
planks
kick downs

I was doing Convict conditioning for a stretch. It has a progression in it to increase difficulty as you improve.

sijomial

A few points:
As long as your diet is sufficient cardio does not burn muscle - that is not a prefered fuel source.
You would have to be running multiple marathons a week and/or have a huge calorie deficit for your body to start burning muscle instead of glycogen/fat. I've followed a weekly routine of 3 weights and 3 cardio sessions both in deficit and at maintenance. If you like cardio or have sporting goals then carry on.

Percentages or ratios for macros are pretty pointless beyond a general guide, protein is like vitamins - once you have enough there's no benefit in having more (60% protein will give you a really unbalanced diet). I aim for protein and fat as minimums and the rest falls wherever it falls (I like 1g protein per lb of lean mass, 0.35g fat per lb of total bodyweight). On a big cardio day (several hours cycling for example) I would ensure I get a load of carbs for fuel while still hitting protein & fat targets.

I do some bodyweight exercises (but mostly free weights and machines) but you will need to increase the difficulty / resistance over time to get to overload and stress your muscles. There are plenty of people who get good results with bodyweight exercises but weights are probably an easier route for the majority of people (IMO).

owenmhartley

Change your macro nutrients to 50 carbs 30 protein 20 fats, don't be afraid off carbs they won't make you fat and they're the bodies main source of energy next to fats, eating such a low carb diet won't enable you to build a decent amount of muscle tissue and it will encourage your body to hold on to fat hence why people become skinny fat, you only really need to go with1 gram of protein per pound of body weight, I only have around 190 and it does me fine, like I say up those carbs and don't be afraid of them you'll find yourself with a lot more energy as well

shawnreisner

Okay, so I'll make some changes.


- I'll be doing 1800 calories per day and cardio along with my lifting so that I'm burning off fat. I'll be running for 30 minutes every other day on days I don't lift. I plan to increase this frequency once I feel comfortable but I don't want to wear myself out too much since I'm not a very efficient runner at this point.

- Doing 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight puts me at ~165g protein per day, I'll be doing 180g since the numbers work out better in MFP.

- Doing 0.35 grams of fat per pound of bodyweight puts me at ~60g fat per day, I'll be doing 60g per day.

- The remaining calories will come from carbs, which I'll be doing 135g of per day.


How does this look? The percentages come out to be 30% carbs, 40% protein, and 30% fats. I have access to some weight machines, barbells, and what I believe to be a bar for doing deadlifts, so I will be doing some research on lifting technique and determining how much to lift. I would really appreciate any suggestions on types of lifts and any useful resources on technique.


Again, thank you so much for all the help. I'm going to look so hot by the time summer rolls around.

shawnreisner

I'm wondering however if it would be more worth my while to eat at maintenance instead of at a small deficit. What would happen in either case?

KoopaSix

Cardio is not required. You can achieve fat loss through a caloric deficit alone (which is what I recommend for reasons I won't get into here). When fat loss begins to plateau THEN you can/should incorporate cardio if you don't want to reduce cals any further. This is my 8 month progress with ZERO CARDIO. Strength training only. Cardio is great for your heart and in leaner individuals can greatly influence nutrient partitioning, other then that it's really not worth it. Diet is everything. Also, carbs are great..don't fall into the low carb hype.

sixpacklady

Cardio is not required. You can achieve fat loss through a caloric deficit alone (which is what I recommend for reasons I won't get into here). When fat loss begins to plateau THEN you can/should incorporate cardio if you don't want to reduce cals any further. This is my 8 month progress with ZERO CARDIO. Strength training only. Cardio is great for your heart and in leaner individuals can greatly influence nutrient partitioning, other then that it's really not worth it. Diet is everything. Also, carbs are great..don't fall into the low carb hype.

OMG, Amazing !!

How much deficit did you keep? Did you follow any particular workouts? Any other tips... Please share:flowerforyou:

KoopaSix

Small deficit of 200-300, strength training focused around major compound movements (squats, bench press, deadlift, overhead press) some isolation exercises. 4 day split mon, tues, thurs, fri. Plenty of rest and eating good. High protein, mod carb, low fat..

The key is to not just jump into a huge deficit, your metabolism eventually falls off and that deficit becomes your new maintenance. For this purpose you should be eating OVER maintenance 1-2 times per week by 100-200 cals to throw it off and prevent Metabolic adaptation...I used "refeeds" to help prevent this

Boogage

In for more info

ndj1979

I'm wondering however if it would be more worth my while to eat at maintenance instead of at a small deficit. What would happen in either case?

based on your stats..yes, you should eat at a small deficit so that you continue to lose some body fat but retain muscle mass. When you get your body fat down to sub 12% you can do a bulk cycle to add on muscle.

I would also recommend picking up a copy of starting strength and/or new rules of lifting. These are both great resources of heavy lifting with compound movements. You really need to build a program around the big compound movements - barbell squat, deadlift, bench press, overhead press, rows, pull ups/chin ups. You can youtube videos to get the form down.

As others have pointed out, if you like cardio, then you can keep doing cardio. A sample plan would be something like:
Monday - chest/arms
tuesday - cardio
wens - legs
thurs - cardio/ab work
friday - back/shoulders
saturday - cardio/rest/etc
sunday - rest

make sure you have at least one, one hundred percent rest day …

if you do not like the cardio so much then you could do an upper/lower type split …like Monday - upper; tues - lower; wens - off/cardio/abs; thurs - upper; friday - lower…

I would suggest a macro set up of 40% protein/30% carbs/30% fat….but that is just me….

You will have a lot better results if you find a program and stick to it consistently. I would also suggest working out in the four set range with about 8-10 reps per set….

Good luck ...

SezxyStef

I agree with Cptn and ndj...

Small deficet, 1g of protien for every lb of lean body mass is sufficent...and 25-35% for fat depending..I am set at 25%, rest carbs...

compound lifts are the way to go. Starting strength and NROL or strong lifts 5x5 are all great programs.

As long as it's a progressive load compound movement it's all good

SL 5x5 has simplicity on it's side 2 works outs alternating days M/W/F or Tu/Th/Sat

Workout A

Squat 5x5
bench 5x5
rows 5x5

Workout b

Squat 5x5
Overhead press 5x5
Deadlift 5x5

I often do HIIT on my Tu/Thu and take weekends off completely...

I have in 6months lost 4.5% BF (over the holidays Christmas/Thanksgiving/Birthday and 1 week vacation at an all inclusive) so that is about 1% a month of BF I am losing.

I eat all foods nothing is eliminated...my diary is open if you want to take a look.

sixpacklady

Small deficit of 200-300, strength training focused around major compound movements (squats, bench press, deadlift, overhead press) some isolation exercises. 4 day split mon, tues, thurs, fri. Plenty of rest and eating good. High protein, mod carb, low fat..

The key is to not just jump into a huge deficit, your metabolism eventually falls off and that deficit becomes your new maintenance. For this purpose you should be eating OVER maintenance 1-2 times per week by 100-200 cals to throw it off and prevent Metabolic adaptation...I used "refeeds" to help prevent this

Thank you!!

fitfemlove

http://fitfemlove.wordpress.com

shawnreisner

So when I hear that I should be eating 1g protein for each pound of lean body mass, does that just mean that since I weight 165 lbs, I should be eating 165g protein each day? That seems almost impossible. Any suggestions on how to do this? Even with whey protein supplements this seems almost impossible.

TR0berts

No. Lean body mass (LBM) is what you weigh minus the weight of the fat you store. Let's say, just for the heck of it, your scale is correct when it says 16% BF. That means 84% of your total weight is LBM.

0.84 * 165 = 138.6

That means your LBM is between 135 - 140 lbs. So try to eat 140 g of protein each day. It's ok to be a little under each day, as long as it averages out to 140 (or more) grams of protein per day for the week.

Praying_Mantis

So when I hear that I should be eating 1g protein for each pound of lean body mass, does that just mean that since I weight 165 lbs, I should be eating 165g protein each day? That seems almost impossible. Any suggestions on how to do this? Even with whey protein supplements this seems almost impossible.

This is my quesiton too: is it 1 g protein per LBM or per weight? And... per pound or per kg?
Could be sizeable difference for skinny fat folk. In for answer.

Praying_Mantis

No. Lean body mass (LBM) is what you weigh minus the weight of the fat you store. Let's say, just for the heck of it, your scale is correct when it says 16% BF. That means 84% of your total weight is LBM.

0.84 * 165 = 138.6

That means your LBM is between 135 - 140 lbs. So try to eat 140 g of protein each day. It's ok to be a little under each day, as long as it averages out to 140 (or more) grams of protein per day for the week.

@TR0berts, thank you!

kshadows

Cardio is not required. You can achieve fat loss through a caloric deficit alone (which is what I recommend for reasons I won't get into here). When fat loss begins to plateau THEN you can/should incorporate cardio if you don't want to reduce cals any further. This is my 8 month progress with ZERO CARDIO. Strength training only. Cardio is great for your heart and in leaner individuals can greatly influence nutrient partitioning, other then that it's really not worth it. Diet is everything. Also, carbs are great..don't fall into the low carb hype.

Hiiiiiiii. :flowerforyou:

april34josey

good advice

TonyStark30

Some good advice here, only thing I can add is, if you want to be Skinny Muscular in your words, get Skinny first.

Get as lean as you can, then see how much Muscle you need to put on. Some people will say just bulk early as you know you're Gonna be Skinny fat but you don't know, or know what you will have to work on during the bulk. I'm 5'9 and I was cutting down from a bit of muscle and I still got to 140 pounds lean then decided to bulk, and even that was enforced by my gym closing so I had to move to a Powerlifter type gym, I think I probably could've cut to about 135.

After that bulk until you have enough muscle mass, then cut slower than you're doing now.

bugga814

OMG I don't understand any of this stuff am I doomed to stay fat:sad:

LKArgh

What do you enjoy more? Start from there. If you enjoy a certain type of exercise, this is the right one for you.
What is the goal? Look at photos of body builders, runners, swimmers, cyclists etc and see what you would like to look like. Everyone involved into serious exercise will be more muscular than someome who does not exercise, so in this sense there is no right or wrong with any exercise. If you enjoy cardio and find it easier to focus on this, do cardio and add some stength training once or twice a week. If you enjoy weight lifting, make this your main activity and add some runnign or walking in there. If you want to become more athletic, it will take more than e.g. one hour per week, so focus on first finding somethign you can enjoy regularly.

TonyStark30

OMG I don't understand any of this stuff am I doomed to stay fat:sad:

Don't worry about this stuff, this is more to do with how they want their body to look once they lose weight, none of this really matters if you just want to lose weight, just hit the calorie target it sets you, and see where you end up at.

MityMax96

As others have stated, and I will say the same.

Caloric deficit
Right macros
Weigh room more, tread mill a lot less.

I myself do maybe 1 day a week of cardio, about 40 min.

The rest of the time it is weights and diet.

Protein == 0.8 - 1.0 gr / pound of body weight
Fat == 0.4 gr / pound of body weight (minimum)
Carbs == Can make up the rest of your calories.

MityMax96

So when I hear that I should be eating 1g protein for each pound of lean body mass, does that just mean that since I weight 165 lbs, I should be eating 165g protein each day? That seems almost impossible. Any suggestions on how to do this? Even with whey protein supplements this seems almost impossible.

Quite easy to hit 165 gr of protein a day.

I easily down over 230 gr / day>
I have to make an effort not to go higher myself.....

But chicken, eggs, milk, beef, fish, cottage cheese, greek yogurt etc....
All good sources of protein

MityMax96

I'm wondering however if it would be more worth my while to eat at maintenance instead of at a small deficit. What would happen in either case?

Since you have fat to burn, you will want a deficit, while doing weight training.
You still want to burn off the fat....
So a combo of deficit while lifting will help accomplish.

MityMax96

Based on the stats you gave, and 5 days a week of exercise.
Your TDEE is around 2500

So you should target your daily goal to be 2000 - 2100
Protein == 165 gr == 660 calories
Fats == 66 gr == 594 calories
Carbs == 200 gr == 800 calories
Total == 2054 calories