Watched Forks and Knives. Now I'm thinking of trying this

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Replies

  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
    You might be better server reading through actual scientific papers on nutrition and not books or articles that pick and choose their sources.

    I would if I thought I was equipped to understand them and get more out of them than I would a book based on a study or studies.

    The books I listed were my attempt to look at differing points of view, something that's ongoing. My next book, after I finish with the second reading of The China Study is Your Personal Paleo Code by Chris Kresser.

    If you have any suggestions for good books, please let me know. I try to be open minded. It doesn't mean I don't have an opinion though. So far, The China Study makes more sense on a comprehensive or wholistic basis than any of the others I've read.

    You might be surprised at how much you can actually comprehend from scientific papers. Many of them are very well written and the abstracts do a good job at laying down an overview of the entire study including significant finds from the study.

    Reading books can be good but just go into them with the understanding that the author already has an agenda before they even start writing the book and they are going to pick and choose any source they can find that will back up their viewpoint. Scientists do have agendas too sometimes but less so than authors trying to sell their books, and a scientist will have integrity about the data and the conclusions.
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
    Anyway, to the OP, congrats on your new decision. You will realize a few weeks in that you feel AMAZING, and that the naysayers on this site have never tried it. (Or, dare i say it, are getting paid to espouse nonsense about how you should continue eating their profitable crap).

    I thought I heard all the Vegan conspiracy theories but I guess I was wrong. So you're saying the meat and dairy industries pay people to post on myfitnesspal forums against veganism? What??

    Hey, AJ_G, when do we get our money-checks? Have you got yours, yet?

    LOL... this is one of the most insane sounding theories I've seen on here. I wish I got paid for telling people to eat meat.

    I check my mailbox daily, but still nothing...
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    A true documentary is going to be un-biased and is going to offer up contesting points of view as well as evidence for and against differing points of view. A true documentary is not conclusive in it's findings...it basically throws **** out there and lets the audience think thing through...as I said, generally speaking numerous points of view are thrown out there and all can be supported in some manner.

    Forks and Knives and other such crockumentaries don't do that. Their singular goal is to elicit their POV and generally findings are conclusive to that POV.

    It is kind of sad that people really don't have the ability to differentiate between an actual documentary and what essentially amounts to propaganda. I have no problem with someone wanting to be vegan or whatever...I do have a problem with people just fear mongering to propagate their own agendas and beliefs.
  • jim180155
    jim180155 Posts: 769 Member
    You might be better server reading through actual scientific papers on nutrition and not books or articles that pick and choose their sources.

    I would if I thought I was equipped to understand them and get more out of them than I would a book based on a study or studies.

    The books I listed were my attempt to look at differing points of view, something that's ongoing. My next book, after I finish with the second reading of The China Study is Your Personal Paleo Code by Chris Kresser.

    If you have any suggestions for good books, please let me know. I try to be open minded. It doesn't mean I don't have an opinion though. So far, The China Study makes more sense on a comprehensive or wholistic basis than any of the others I've read.

    You might be surprised at how much you can actually comprehend from scientific papers. Many of them are very well written and the abstracts do a good job at laying down an overview of the entire study including significant finds from the study.

    Reading books can be good but just go into them with the understanding that the author already has an agenda before they even start writing the book and they are going to pick and choose any source they can find that will back up their viewpoint. Scientists do have agendas too sometimes but less so than authors trying to sell their books, and a scientist will have integrity about the data and the conclusions.

    AJ, maybe I gave you the wrong impression. I didn't mean that I've never read study results. I have. I just find them difficult to wade through. The most meaningful parts to me are the summary conclusions. When I try to get into the real meat of them, I don't understand a lot of it. So I go to the summaries first, last, or sometimes (usually) only. That's where I get their findings and their OPINION on what the findings mean.

    And rather than sounding so condescending, you might want to try reading The China Study for yourself. If you had, you'd already know that T. Colin Campbell was involved in the research. He's writing about what he and others found. You know, like in their studies.
  • jim180155
    jim180155 Posts: 769 Member
    A true documentary is going to be un-biased and is going to offer up contesting points of view as well as evidence for and against differing points of view. A true documentary is not conclusive in it's findings...it basically throws **** out there and lets the audience think thing through...as I said, generally speaking numerous points of view are thrown out there and all can be supported in some manner.

    Forks and Knives and other such crockumentaries don't do that. Their singular goal is to elicit their POV and generally findings are conclusive to that POV.

    It is kind of sad that people really don't have the ability to differentiate between an actual documentary and what essentially amounts to propaganda. I have no problem with someone wanting to be vegan or whatever...I do have a problem with people just fear mongering to propagate their own agendas and beliefs.

    Wrong

    doc·u·men·ta·ry
    ˌdäkyəˈmentərē/
    adjective
    adjective: documentary

    1.
    consisting of official pieces of written, printed, or other matter.
    "his book is based on documentary sources"
    synonyms: recorded, documented, registered, written, chronicled, archived, on record, on paper, in writing More
    "documentary evidence"
    (of a movie, a television or radio program, or photography) using pictures or interviews with people involved in real events to provide a factual record or report.
    "he has directed documentary shorts and feature films"
    synonyms: factual, nonfictional More
    "a documentary film"

    noun
    noun: documentary; plural noun: documentaries

    1.
    a movie or a television or radio program that provides a factual record or report.
    synonyms: factual program, factual film; More


    A documentary can attempt to show "all" sides of an issue. It can also present a point of view. The all-inclusive documentary may be better in a sense, but it's hard to fit even one side into a two hour show, so if it does try to encompass all, there are going to be compromises. And in many cases, IMO, it'll wind up not doing justice to any point of view.
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
    You might be better server reading through actual scientific papers on nutrition and not books or articles that pick and choose their sources.

    I would if I thought I was equipped to understand them and get more out of them than I would a book based on a study or studies.

    The books I listed were my attempt to look at differing points of view, something that's ongoing. My next book, after I finish with the second reading of The China Study is Your Personal Paleo Code by Chris Kresser.

    If you have any suggestions for good books, please let me know. I try to be open minded. It doesn't mean I don't have an opinion though. So far, The China Study makes more sense on a comprehensive or wholistic basis than any of the others I've read.

    You might be surprised at how much you can actually comprehend from scientific papers. Many of them are very well written and the abstracts do a good job at laying down an overview of the entire study including significant finds from the study.

    Reading books can be good but just go into them with the understanding that the author already has an agenda before they even start writing the book and they are going to pick and choose any source they can find that will back up their viewpoint. Scientists do have agendas too sometimes but less so than authors trying to sell their books, and a scientist will have integrity about the data and the conclusions.

    AJ, maybe I gave you the wrong impression. I didn't mean that I've never read study results. I have. I just find them difficult to wade through. The most meaningful parts to me are the summary conclusions. When I try to get into the real meat of them, I don't understand a lot of it. So I go to the summaries first, last, or sometimes (usually) only. That's where I get their findings and their OPINION on what the findings mean.

    And rather than sounding so condescending, you might want to try reading The China Study for yourself. If you had, you'd already know that T. Colin Campbell was involved in the research. He's writing about what he and others found. You know, like in their studies.

    How was I condescending? I've read the China Study in it's entirety...for myself. Yes he was involved in the research which makes him more eager to back up his own conclusions which is what he will continue to do in any subsequent books. Reading material written about studies is not the same as reading studies. Things are picked out and other things are left.
  • seashell709
    seashell709 Posts: 123 Member
    I agree with reading the china study too.
  • Moonlitedi
    Moonlitedi Posts: 94 Member
    WOW lol I just wanted to have some recipes and not start a whole war over who is right. I believe in balance and proper nutrition. I think counting calories is great an all but it should mostly be focused on counting chemicals. I need this post to get back to topic and debate vegan vs. no vegan at a later time. I wish to eat healthier which includes more veggies and possibly still including some chicken from time to time. Again I will state that I have a lap-band and tougher foods like certain meats can be hard for me to eat. If there are alternatives I can add that will help along the way with natural ingredients, I would like more recipes that have protein alternatives that are not soy based or harder meat based. I appreciate all the feedback and will take things in baby steps. I have already changed my life by limiting certain foods and wish to add better additions. I am not taking one video I watched on Netflix at the final say but will take it with a grain of salt and I appreciate the helpful links to do more research.

    More recipes please! ^___________^
  • jim180155
    jim180155 Posts: 769 Member
    Moonlite, you might want to consider this protein supplement: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0021FEMZG/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    It uses a variety of plant sources for a more complete amino acid profile than what you'd typically find with a just hemp, soy or pea derived protein. It's also probably cheaper than what you'll find at GNC.

    I just received mine from Amazon, but haven't had a chance to taste it yet.
  • jim180155
    jim180155 Posts: 769 Member
    When I listed the nutrition-related books above I forgot one, one that I'm currently reading. No food book list is complete without this one:

    Edible: An Adventure into the World of Eating Insects and the Last Great Hope to Save the Planet by Daniella Martin
  • SunofaBeach14
    SunofaBeach14 Posts: 4,899 Member
    That documentary is nothing but heavily biased clap trap. Use your critical thinking skills.
  • dcarter1020
    dcarter1020 Posts: 73 Member
    This:

    "Personally, I think moderation in all aspects of life is the best course of action"

    Best quote in the whole discussion. I personally don't eat meat, but my husband does. We've had many late night discussions based on my personal decision. I choose to support organic farmers and buy locally when possible, not because of a study or documentary, but because I like seeing/knowing where my food comes from.

    I choose to believe FOK and the China study was meant to bring attention to our food sources and how we *may* have arrived here. Some propaganda? Of course. I also wonder if the same people knocking veganism/vegetarians also have issue with Paleo eaters? Just a question I'd like to know the answer to. Many paleo people try to eat as close to the source as possible (like vegans), but allow for animal protein. I also know several hardcore Paleo people that make it a point to tell everyone about their dietary restrictions and why it's the best diet on earth. Haven't seen one post knocking them yet, so it makes me wonder.

    At the end of the day, whatever our chosen diets, I do believe in moderation and listening to your body. I'm always glad to see discussions like this, because I believe talking about these things brings about awareness and that's always positive in my opinion. Good information. Thanks for the sources.
  • magerum
    magerum Posts: 12,589 Member
    That documentary is nothing but heavily biased clap trap. Use your critical thinking skills.

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  • snikkins
    snikkins Posts: 1,282 Member

    I also wonder if the same people knocking veganism/vegetarians also have issue with Paleo eaters? Just a question I'd like to know the answer to. Many paleo people try to eat as close to the source as possible (like vegans), but allow for animal protein. I also know several hardcore Paleo people that make it a point to tell everyone about their dietary restrictions and why it's the best diet on earth. Haven't seen one post knocking them yet, so it makes me wonder.


    They do take issue and I'm a bit surprised you haven't managed to run into it yet.

    ETA: They don't give a second thought to anyone eating however they want to eat; they are bothered by the arguably loud minority of people who eat these ways that act like it's going to cure cancer or that paleo people actually ate this way.
  • HollisGrant
    HollisGrant Posts: 2,022 Member
    So I was recently introduced to the documentary on Netflix called Forks and Knives and it had some new findings linking animal based products to cancers. It goes over and has evidence from studies that have been going on for decades and the evidence is pretty sound. I think I would like to to try this plant based meal plan and find vegan protein powders instead of whey and other such alternatives like food processing cauliflower sauteed to be a rice substitute. I would still take a multi-vitamin and b-12 supplement. I heard Nutritional yeast is a good substitute for cheese and does not taste like erasers like some other "mock' products.

    I have been a life long meat eater but after watching that documentary and seeing some facts and evidence, I would like to try this and see how it feels and if I have the urge to eat my husband in the middle of the night, I will stay strong and find some fruits or something else to munch on. hahaha This will be a big step for me as I have never done this before and was always opposed to it. I have an open mind when facts are present so lets see how it goes.

    I'm looking for recipes now.
    I would appreciate some of your favorites so I can try out.
    I also have a lap-band which requires me to have a higher intake of protein. I found a Vegan Protein powder called Bodylogix at GNC and will pick that up for my shakes as well as my Unsweetened Vanilla Almond milk (30 calories) to add to it.

    Lots of recipes would be great!
    Thanks! ^_^

    My late husband struggled with prostate cancer for 13 years. Two doctors, one here in Pennsylvania and the other at Georgetown Hospital's Lombardi Cancer Center in D.C., told us that diet is absolutely related to cancer. We were told that studies show men who eat a diet heavy in meat and diary (the western diet) get the disease far more often than men who eat a diet based on plant food and some fish -- however, those men get the disease at the same rate when they move to the United States and eat the typical diet here.

    You can get plenty of protein from nuts, seeds, beans and bean products. I eat a lot of lentils (18 g of protein in 1 cup, or the protein of 3 eggs). Some people get gas from beans because we lack an enzyme to digest the coating. You can get around that by soaking or overcooking so the beans are very soft. There are loads of delicious foods that are plant-based. Look at the website www.ohsheglows.com for some inspiration.