Watched Forks and Knives. Now I'm thinking of trying this
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Just to add...
There aren't really any laws about things like, "Documentary" or "Based on a true story".
Integrity aside (and when did this ever bother anyone with an ax to grind?) you can pretty much just say that.
You might later get called out, like this one or "Supersize me" has - but your "true believers" will defend you.
But my point is that, you shouldn't change your life based on something you saw on Netflix or Youtube that called itself a documentary.0 -
I can see the reason for the bad taste, but I think even vegans hate PETA. The links you've posted are great, seems like you've done your research. I'm veggie for a variety of reasons: humanitarian, enviornmental, disdain for agribusiness, ect; any health benefits are just a bonus.
Disdain for agribusiness? When was the last time you stepped foot on a family run dairy farm?0 -
You may want to look into some dissenting opinions regarding "The China Study," which is what they base almost all of their research claims on.
This is a decent start: http://rawfoodsos.com/category/china-study/
There are dozens of others. I'm not going to tell you what to believe. But, I encourage you to fully investigate the issues and research before you decide to radically change your eating.
I read The China Study a year or so ago, then went looking for criticisms and found that site. It's good, but she falls victim to some of the same fallacies she accuses Campbell of. She did not convince me that Campbell is wrong, only that she disagrees with Campbell.
Forks Over Knives is a good documentary. It's not the whole story, but it's a good eye-opener. I'd recommend watching the movie for everybody. It's something to think about. I'd also recommend reading The China Study, although I know a lot of people won't read a book no matter what it's about, and others who are readers won't want to invest the time in that particular subject. I'd also recommend "Whole," also by T. Colin Campbell, which was written five years later to address some of the criticisms of "The China Study."
I'm currently reading "The China Study" for the second time. I'm not a vegan. I tried veganism for 3 months then started adding meat and dairy back into my diet, although on a much smaller scale. I'm still not convinced that Campbell has all the answers, but I do think he has a lot of them. So I'm now getting around 80% or 90% of my calories from Whole Food Plants.0 -
While basing an opinion on one source is dangerous, the China Study should not be ignored; it is a series of experiments done over the course of twenty years, is peer-reviewed, and has been supplemented by several smaller studies. It's silly to think vegans are cranking out propaganda, as a previous poster commented- what would be their motive? Seems the meat and dairy industry have more to gain than the tiny percentage of the population that is vegan.
I eat a plant based diet and my diary is open, feel free to browse, OP. If you liked FOK, check out "Food Inc." it has some really good information in it. Also check out Dr. Estlestein and his work with cardiac patients. My transition to vegetarian was slow, I started just during the week, and gradually cut out meat. Be prepared for critsism, but its worth it if it's something you really want to do.
It's also been debunked many times.0 -
A documentary base on 1 way of thinking is ONLY going to show you the results of any study that supports their view point. Pick up a few books on nutrition and do some reading. Just one thing you will find, not mentioned in Forks Over Knives, plant proteins are far more difficult for the human body to process. They DO NOT break down the same, nor do they supply the same quality protein meat sources supply. Do you need mass amounts of protein in your diet? Probably not. Most people consume more than the body needs in a natural diet. But it's completely your call, your diet, your health.
My reading list thus far on the subject:
Addicted to Food: Understanding the Obesity Epidemic by James Erlichman
The China Study: The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted And the Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss, And Long-term Health by T. Colin Campbell
Whole: Rethinking the Science of Nutrition by T. Colin Campbell
The Great Cholesterol Myth: Why Lowering Your Cholesterol Won't Prevent Heart Disease-and the Statin-Free Plan That Will by Jonny Bowden
Wheat Belly: Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight, and Find Your Path Back to Health by William Davis
Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It by Gary Taubes
The Spectrum: A Scientifically Proven Program to Feel Better, Live Longer, Lose Weight, and Gain Health by Dean Ornish
Salt Sugar Fat: How the Food Giants Hooked Us by Michael Moss
The China Study was the best read of the bunch. Salt Sugar Fat was probably the second best. It had no advice on what to eat but was very interesting in its historical look at the food industry.0 -
A documentary base on 1 way of thinking is ONLY going to show you the results of any study that supports their view point. Pick up a few books on nutrition and do some reading. Just one thing you will find, not mentioned in Forks Over Knives, plant proteins are far more difficult for the human body to process. They DO NOT break down the same, nor do they supply the same quality protein meat sources supply. Do you need mass amounts of protein in your diet? Probably not. Most people consume more than the body needs in a natural diet. But it's completely your call, your diet, your health.
My reading list thus far on the subject:
Addicted to Food: Understanding the Obesity Epidemic by James Erlichman
The China Study: The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted And the Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss, And Long-term Health by T. Colin Campbell
Whole: Rethinking the Science of Nutrition by T. Colin Campbell
The Great Cholesterol Myth: Why Lowering Your Cholesterol Won't Prevent Heart Disease-and the Statin-Free Plan That Will by Jonny Bowden
Wheat Belly: Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight, and Find Your Path Back to Health by William Davis
Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It by Gary Taubes
The Spectrum: A Scientifically Proven Program to Feel Better, Live Longer, Lose Weight, and Gain Health by Dean Ornish
Salt Sugar Fat: How the Food Giants Hooked Us by Michael Moss
The China Study was the best read of the bunch. Salt Sugar Fat was probably the second best. It had no advice on what to eat but was very interesting in its historical look at the food industry.
You might be better server reading through actual scientific papers on nutrition and not books or articles that pick and choose their sources.0 -
Why, that is downright logical.It's silly to think vegans are cranking out propaganda, as a previous poster commented- what would be their motive? Seems the meat and dairy industry have more to gain than the tiny percentage of the population that is vegan.
Anyway, to the OP, congrats on your new decision. You will realize a few weeks in that you feel AMAZING, and that the naysayers on this site have never tried it. (Or, dare i say it, are getting paid to espouse nonsense about how you should continue eating their profitable crap).
I thought the movie was BS when i first watched it on Netflix, but figured "What's the harm in trying for a few weeks?". 2 years later, i look at turning to a whole foods, plant based diet as the best decision i ever made.
Recipes:
I love fruit, and there is no recipe for that. Buy it and eat it.
Soups
They vary every time, but i start with low sodium veggie broth, and get carrots and celery chopped up, and then whatever is in season gets thrown into the mix.
Salads
I eat them in a mixing bowl, with whatever fresh veggies and fruits i feel like putting in. Romaine, tomatoes cucumbers and onion is a goto.
Oatmeal
1 cup steel cut oats
3 cups water
2 diced cored apples.
cinnamon
diced dates
small amount of chopped walnuts
Cook over night in slow cooker
(optional) Serve with Almond milk0 -
A documentary base on 1 way of thinking is ONLY going to show you the results of any study that supports their view point. Pick up a few books on nutrition and do some reading. Just one thing you will find, not mentioned in Forks Over Knives, plant proteins are far more difficult for the human body to process. They DO NOT break down the same, nor do they supply the same quality protein meat sources supply. Do you need mass amounts of protein in your diet? Probably not. Most people consume more than the body needs in a natural diet. But it's completely your call, your diet, your health.
My reading list thus far on the subject:
Addicted to Food: Understanding the Obesity Epidemic by James Erlichman
The China Study: The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted And the Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss, And Long-term Health by T. Colin Campbell
Whole: Rethinking the Science of Nutrition by T. Colin Campbell
The Great Cholesterol Myth: Why Lowering Your Cholesterol Won't Prevent Heart Disease-and the Statin-Free Plan That Will by Jonny Bowden
Wheat Belly: Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight, and Find Your Path Back to Health by William Davis
Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It by Gary Taubes
The Spectrum: A Scientifically Proven Program to Feel Better, Live Longer, Lose Weight, and Gain Health by Dean Ornish
Salt Sugar Fat: How the Food Giants Hooked Us by Michael Moss
The China Study was the best read of the bunch. Salt Sugar Fat was probably the second best. It had no advice on what to eat but was very interesting in its historical look at the food industry.
You might be better server reading through actual scientific papers on nutrition and not books or articles that pick and choose their sources.
I would if I thought I was equipped to understand them and get more out of them than I would a book based on a study or studies.
The books I listed were my attempt to look at differing points of view, something that's ongoing. My next book, after I finish with the second reading of The China Study is Your Personal Paleo Code by Chris Kresser.
If you have any suggestions for good books, please let me know. I try to be open minded. It doesn't mean I don't have an opinion though. So far, The China Study makes more sense on a comprehensive or wholistic basis than any of the others I've read.0 -
Anyway, to the OP, congrats on your new decision. You will realize a few weeks in that you feel AMAZING, and that the naysayers on this site have never tried it. (Or, dare i say it, are getting paid to espouse nonsense about how you should continue eating their profitable crap).
I thought I heard all the Vegan conspiracy theories but I guess I was wrong. So you're saying the meat and dairy industries pay people to post on myfitnesspal forums against veganism? What??
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Anyway, to the OP, congrats on your new decision. You will realize a few weeks in that you feel AMAZING, and that the naysayers on this site have never tried it. (Or, dare i say it, are getting paid to espouse nonsense about how you should continue eating their profitable crap).
I thought I heard all the Vegan conspiracy theories but I guess I was wrong. So you're saying the meat and dairy industries pay people to post on myfitnesspal forums against veganism? What??
Hey, AJ_G, when do we get our money-checks? Have you got yours, yet?
LOL... this is one of the most insane sounding theories I've seen on here. I wish I got paid for telling people to eat meat.0 -
You might be better server reading through actual scientific papers on nutrition and not books or articles that pick and choose their sources.
I would if I thought I was equipped to understand them and get more out of them than I would a book based on a study or studies.
The books I listed were my attempt to look at differing points of view, something that's ongoing. My next book, after I finish with the second reading of The China Study is Your Personal Paleo Code by Chris Kresser.
If you have any suggestions for good books, please let me know. I try to be open minded. It doesn't mean I don't have an opinion though. So far, The China Study makes more sense on a comprehensive or wholistic basis than any of the others I've read.
You might be surprised at how much you can actually comprehend from scientific papers. Many of them are very well written and the abstracts do a good job at laying down an overview of the entire study including significant finds from the study.
Reading books can be good but just go into them with the understanding that the author already has an agenda before they even start writing the book and they are going to pick and choose any source they can find that will back up their viewpoint. Scientists do have agendas too sometimes but less so than authors trying to sell their books, and a scientist will have integrity about the data and the conclusions.0 -
Anyway, to the OP, congrats on your new decision. You will realize a few weeks in that you feel AMAZING, and that the naysayers on this site have never tried it. (Or, dare i say it, are getting paid to espouse nonsense about how you should continue eating their profitable crap).
I thought I heard all the Vegan conspiracy theories but I guess I was wrong. So you're saying the meat and dairy industries pay people to post on myfitnesspal forums against veganism? What??
Hey, AJ_G, when do we get our money-checks? Have you got yours, yet?
LOL... this is one of the most insane sounding theories I've seen on here. I wish I got paid for telling people to eat meat.
I check my mailbox daily, but still nothing...0 -
A true documentary is going to be un-biased and is going to offer up contesting points of view as well as evidence for and against differing points of view. A true documentary is not conclusive in it's findings...it basically throws **** out there and lets the audience think thing through...as I said, generally speaking numerous points of view are thrown out there and all can be supported in some manner.
Forks and Knives and other such crockumentaries don't do that. Their singular goal is to elicit their POV and generally findings are conclusive to that POV.
It is kind of sad that people really don't have the ability to differentiate between an actual documentary and what essentially amounts to propaganda. I have no problem with someone wanting to be vegan or whatever...I do have a problem with people just fear mongering to propagate their own agendas and beliefs.0 -
You might be better server reading through actual scientific papers on nutrition and not books or articles that pick and choose their sources.
I would if I thought I was equipped to understand them and get more out of them than I would a book based on a study or studies.
The books I listed were my attempt to look at differing points of view, something that's ongoing. My next book, after I finish with the second reading of The China Study is Your Personal Paleo Code by Chris Kresser.
If you have any suggestions for good books, please let me know. I try to be open minded. It doesn't mean I don't have an opinion though. So far, The China Study makes more sense on a comprehensive or wholistic basis than any of the others I've read.
You might be surprised at how much you can actually comprehend from scientific papers. Many of them are very well written and the abstracts do a good job at laying down an overview of the entire study including significant finds from the study.
Reading books can be good but just go into them with the understanding that the author already has an agenda before they even start writing the book and they are going to pick and choose any source they can find that will back up their viewpoint. Scientists do have agendas too sometimes but less so than authors trying to sell their books, and a scientist will have integrity about the data and the conclusions.
AJ, maybe I gave you the wrong impression. I didn't mean that I've never read study results. I have. I just find them difficult to wade through. The most meaningful parts to me are the summary conclusions. When I try to get into the real meat of them, I don't understand a lot of it. So I go to the summaries first, last, or sometimes (usually) only. That's where I get their findings and their OPINION on what the findings mean.
And rather than sounding so condescending, you might want to try reading The China Study for yourself. If you had, you'd already know that T. Colin Campbell was involved in the research. He's writing about what he and others found. You know, like in their studies.0 -
A true documentary is going to be un-biased and is going to offer up contesting points of view as well as evidence for and against differing points of view. A true documentary is not conclusive in it's findings...it basically throws **** out there and lets the audience think thing through...as I said, generally speaking numerous points of view are thrown out there and all can be supported in some manner.
Forks and Knives and other such crockumentaries don't do that. Their singular goal is to elicit their POV and generally findings are conclusive to that POV.
It is kind of sad that people really don't have the ability to differentiate between an actual documentary and what essentially amounts to propaganda. I have no problem with someone wanting to be vegan or whatever...I do have a problem with people just fear mongering to propagate their own agendas and beliefs.
Wrong
doc·u·men·ta·ry
ˌdäkyəˈmentərē/
adjective
adjective: documentary
1.
consisting of official pieces of written, printed, or other matter.
"his book is based on documentary sources"
synonyms: recorded, documented, registered, written, chronicled, archived, on record, on paper, in writing More
"documentary evidence"
(of a movie, a television or radio program, or photography) using pictures or interviews with people involved in real events to provide a factual record or report.
"he has directed documentary shorts and feature films"
synonyms: factual, nonfictional More
"a documentary film"
noun
noun: documentary; plural noun: documentaries
1.
a movie or a television or radio program that provides a factual record or report.
synonyms: factual program, factual film; More
A documentary can attempt to show "all" sides of an issue. It can also present a point of view. The all-inclusive documentary may be better in a sense, but it's hard to fit even one side into a two hour show, so if it does try to encompass all, there are going to be compromises. And in many cases, IMO, it'll wind up not doing justice to any point of view.0 -
You might be better server reading through actual scientific papers on nutrition and not books or articles that pick and choose their sources.
I would if I thought I was equipped to understand them and get more out of them than I would a book based on a study or studies.
The books I listed were my attempt to look at differing points of view, something that's ongoing. My next book, after I finish with the second reading of The China Study is Your Personal Paleo Code by Chris Kresser.
If you have any suggestions for good books, please let me know. I try to be open minded. It doesn't mean I don't have an opinion though. So far, The China Study makes more sense on a comprehensive or wholistic basis than any of the others I've read.
You might be surprised at how much you can actually comprehend from scientific papers. Many of them are very well written and the abstracts do a good job at laying down an overview of the entire study including significant finds from the study.
Reading books can be good but just go into them with the understanding that the author already has an agenda before they even start writing the book and they are going to pick and choose any source they can find that will back up their viewpoint. Scientists do have agendas too sometimes but less so than authors trying to sell their books, and a scientist will have integrity about the data and the conclusions.
AJ, maybe I gave you the wrong impression. I didn't mean that I've never read study results. I have. I just find them difficult to wade through. The most meaningful parts to me are the summary conclusions. When I try to get into the real meat of them, I don't understand a lot of it. So I go to the summaries first, last, or sometimes (usually) only. That's where I get their findings and their OPINION on what the findings mean.
And rather than sounding so condescending, you might want to try reading The China Study for yourself. If you had, you'd already know that T. Colin Campbell was involved in the research. He's writing about what he and others found. You know, like in their studies.
How was I condescending? I've read the China Study in it's entirety...for myself. Yes he was involved in the research which makes him more eager to back up his own conclusions which is what he will continue to do in any subsequent books. Reading material written about studies is not the same as reading studies. Things are picked out and other things are left.0 -
I agree with reading the china study too.0
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WOW lol I just wanted to have some recipes and not start a whole war over who is right. I believe in balance and proper nutrition. I think counting calories is great an all but it should mostly be focused on counting chemicals. I need this post to get back to topic and debate vegan vs. no vegan at a later time. I wish to eat healthier which includes more veggies and possibly still including some chicken from time to time. Again I will state that I have a lap-band and tougher foods like certain meats can be hard for me to eat. If there are alternatives I can add that will help along the way with natural ingredients, I would like more recipes that have protein alternatives that are not soy based or harder meat based. I appreciate all the feedback and will take things in baby steps. I have already changed my life by limiting certain foods and wish to add better additions. I am not taking one video I watched on Netflix at the final say but will take it with a grain of salt and I appreciate the helpful links to do more research.
More recipes please! ^___________^0 -
Moonlite, you might want to consider this protein supplement: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0021FEMZG/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It uses a variety of plant sources for a more complete amino acid profile than what you'd typically find with a just hemp, soy or pea derived protein. It's also probably cheaper than what you'll find at GNC.
I just received mine from Amazon, but haven't had a chance to taste it yet.0 -
When I listed the nutrition-related books above I forgot one, one that I'm currently reading. No food book list is complete without this one:
Edible: An Adventure into the World of Eating Insects and the Last Great Hope to Save the Planet by Daniella Martin0
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