Low Carb and gout anyone else have this problem

albertabeefy

I'm also wondering how many grams of protein a day people are saying is way too much?
I think my protein intake isn't over board?

I've never seen you be full of meat industry propaganda either

Excess protein won't harm you except in two instances:

1. if you have pre-existing kidney issues - then excess protein will overwork them.
2. If you have insulin-resistance and/or diabetes - then excess is converted to glucose and could raise serum glucose to unsafe levels.

If I were a meat-propagandist I'd tell people processed meat is fine. And although I do eat some, I don't believe it's as safe as the industry would lead you to believe.

Most of the meat I eat is grass-fed / free-range and as organic as possible. Ditto with eggs - I prefer free-run / free-range. I prefer bacon from my local butcher shoppe - they get some that's from free-range pigs and is naturally cured - it's much-better than pre-packaged, but it's a seasonal thing.

The truth is while natural, whole foods ARE better for us than packaged - there's simply no weight to the argument that meat (except process) is unhealthy. Only the truly ignorant or brainwashed zealots believe otherwise.

Rocbola

If you're so educated, why does your nutritional info so perfectly resemble meat industry propaganda? I'd question who is educating you.

At least I have more than ad-hominems and propaganda backing me up. I have not only my-own credentials, but science.

I'm still waiting for your dozens of research studies, meta-analyses and articles that show low-carb lifestyles are unhealthy. Where are they?

I'm still waiting for your science. You talk a big game, but you aren't putting anything out there.

I don't have to provide you anything. The studies are out there, and if you continue down your path of nutritional ignorance, it doesn't effect me. I would spend my time linking you to all the data that supports my conclusion, but what would be the point? You have your mind made up, no matter what logic, science and reality say.

Go_Mizzou99

nope...lucky at that

ALNoog

I'm also wondering how many grams of protein a day people are saying is way too much?
I think my protein intake isn't over board?

I've never seen you be full of meat industry propaganda either

Excess protein won't harm you except in two instances:

1. if you have pre-existing kidney issues - then excess protein will overwork them.
2. If you have insulin-resistance and/or diabetes - then excess is converted to glucose and could raise serum glucose to unsafe levels.

If I were a meat-propagandist I'd tell people processed meat is fine. And although I do eat some, I don't believe it's as safe as the industry would lead you to believe.

Most of the meat I eat is grass-fed / free-range and as organic as possible. Ditto with eggs - I prefer free-run / free-range. I prefer bacon from my local butcher shoppe - they get some that's from free-range pigs and is naturally cured - it's much-better than pre-packaged, but it's a seasonal thing.

The truth is while natural, whole foods ARE better for us than packaged - there's simply no weight to the argument that meat (except process) is unhealthy. Only the truly ignorant or brainwashed zealots believe otherwise.

Oh, no I am pro low carb and I do it for my pcos and insulin resistance... I'm just saying people always say low carb will shut your kidneys down because you eat too much protein but I'm just wondering how Much the neighsayers consider too much.

What is the recommended grams of protein for a "normal" diet?

albertabeefy

Oh, no I am pro low carb and I do it for my pcos and insulin resistance... I'm just saying people always say low carb will shut your kidneys down because you eat too much protein but I'm just wondering how Much the neighsayers consider too much.

I'm aware, I've seen your posts before. I'm just stating the medical fact that UNLESS you have pre-existing kidney disease, then excess protein won't hurt them.

What is the recommended grams of protein for a "normal" diet?

That varies by individual.

For women it's basically about 0.5g per pound of lean body mass if sedentary, and goes up based on activity. If extremely-active / an athlete, it's best to have at least 1.0g / pound of lean mass - again, as a minimum.

If you're trying to GAIN muscle (so you're eating a surplus instead of a deficit) you may want to aim for even more - as much as 50% more - For example, Lyle McDonald (a highly-regarded expert on performance nutrition) is currently recommending 1.5g/lb of bodyweight (not lean mass) for powerlifters based on all available current research.

ALNoog

Oh, no I am pro low carb and I do it for my pcos and insulin resistance... I'm just saying people always say low carb will shut your kidneys down because you eat too much protein but I'm just wondering how Much the neighsayers consider too much.

I'm aware, I've seen your posts before. I'm just stating the medical fact that UNLESS you have pre-existing kidney disease, then excess protein won't hurt them.

What is the recommended grams of protein for a "normal" diet?

That varies by individual.

For women it's basically about 0.5g per pound of lean body mass if sedentary, and goes up based on activity. If extremely-active / an athlete, it's best to have at least 1.0g / pound of lean mass - again, as a minimum.

If you're trying to GAIN muscle (so you're eating a surplus instead of a deficit) you may want to aim for even more - as much as 50% more - For example, Lyle McDonald (a highly-regarded expert on performance nutrition) is currently recommending 1.5g/lb of bodyweight (not lean mass) for powerlifters based on all available current research.

Wasn't trying to harp on you at all... Just had a friend tell me the other day that I was "going to die like Doctor Atkins did from eating too much protein" and I told her on average I eat about 80-90 grams a day and she informed me that was double the normal "recommend amount" so I just thought maybe you might know off the top of your head.

I'm not trying to argue with you I was just trying to get advice.

albertabeefy

I'm still waiting for your science. You talk a big game, but you aren't putting anything out there.

I don't have to provide you anything. The studies are out there, and if you continue down your path of nutritional ignorance, it doesn't effect me. I would spend my time linking you to all the data that supports my conclusion, but what would be the point? You have your mind made up, no matter what logic, science and reality say.

OK, but I expect a sound, scientific rebuttal.

Lucky for me there's other people that have already done this work - BTW I can attest to having read - in it's entirety - each and every study in this list. I doubt you can say the same. Also of note, as I'm using primarily Randomized Controlled Trials for my evidence (the gold-standard in scientific research) I would ask you to provide science using the same methodology.

http://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/

Santos FL, et al. Systematic review and meta-analysis of clinical trials of the effects of low carbohydrate diets on cardiovascular risk factors. Obes Rev. 2012 Aug 21. doi: 10.1111/j.1467-789X.2012.01021.x. [Epub ahead of print]

On saturated fat: http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1846638&resultClick=3

From Johns Hopkins: http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/low_carb_higher_fat_diets_add_no_arterial_health_risks_to_obese_people_seeking_to_lose_weight

And finally, from Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt's website:

"There are at least 18 modern scientific studies of the highest quality (RCT) that show significantly better weight loss with low carb diets:

RCTs showing significantly more weight loss with low carb diets

Shai I, et al. Weight loss with a low-carbohydrate, mediterranean, or low-fat diet. N Engl J Med 2008;359(3);229–41.
Gardner CD, et al. Comparison of the Atkins, Zone, Ornish, and learn Diets for Change in Weight and Related Risk Factors Among Overweight Premenopausal Women. The a to z Weight Loss Study: A Randomized Trial. JAMA. 2007;297:969–977.
Brehm BJ, et al. A Randomized Trial Comparing a Very Low Carbohydrate Diet and a Calorie-Restricted Low Fat Diet on Body Weight and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in Healthy Women. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2003;88:1617–1623.
Samaha FF, et al. A Low-Carbohydrate as Compared with a Low-Fat Diet in Severe Obesity. N Engl J Med 2003;348:2074–81.
Sondike SB, et al. Effects of a low-carbohydrate diet on weight loss and cardiovascular risk factor in overweight adolescents. J Pediatr. 2003 Mar;142(3):253–8.
Aude YW, et al. The National Cholesterol Education Program Diet vs a Diet Lower in Carbohydrates and Higher in Protein and Monounsaturated Fat. A Randomized Trial. Arch Intern Med. 2004;164:2141–2146.
Volek JS, et al. Comparison of energy-restricted very low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets on weight loss and body composition in overweight men and women. Nutrition & Metabolism 2004, 1:13.
Yancy WS Jr, et al. A Low-Carbohydrate, Ketogenic Diet versus a Low-Fat Diet To Treat Obesity and Hyperlipidemia. A Randomized, Controlled Trial. Ann Intern Med. 2004;140:769–777.
Nichols-Richardsson SM, et al. Perceived Hunger Is Lower and Weight Loss Is Greater in Overweight Premenopausal Women Consuming a Low-Carbohydrate/High- Protein vs High-Carbohydrate/Low-Fat Diet. J Am Diet Assoc. 2005;105:1433–1437.
Krebs NF, et al. Efficacy and Safety of a High Protein, Low Carbohydrate Diet for Weight Loss in Severely Obese Adolescents. J Pediatr 2010;157:252-8.
Summer SS, et al. Adiponectin Changes in Relation to the Macronutrient Composition of a Weight-Loss Diet. Obesity (Silver Spring). 2011 Mar 31. [Epub ahead of print]
Halyburton AK, et al. Low- and high-carbohydrate weight-loss diets have similar effects on mood but not cognitive performance. Am J Clin Nutr 2007;86:580–7.
Dyson PA, et al. A low-carbohydrate diet is more effective in reducing body weight than healthy eating in both diabetic and non-diabetic subjects. Diabet Med. 2007 Dec;24(12):1430-5.
Keogh JB, et al. Effects of weight loss from a very-low-carbohydrate diet on endothelial function and markers of cardiovascular disease risk in subjects with abdominal obesity. Am J Clin Nutr 2008;87:567–76.
Volek JS, et al. Carbohydrate Restriction has a More Favorable Impact on the Metabolic Syndrome than a Low Fat Diet. Lipids 2009;44:297–309.
Partsalaki I, et al. Metabolic impact of a ketogenic diet compared to a hypocaloric diet in obese children and adolescents. J Pediatr Endocrinol Metab. 2012;25(7-8):697-704.
Daly ME, et al. Short-term effects of severe dietary carbohydrate-restriction advice in Type 2 diabetes–a randomized controlled trial. Diabet Med. 2006 Jan;23(1):15–20.
Westman EC, et al. The effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low- glycemic index diet on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes mellitus. Nutr. Metab (Lond.)2008 Dec 19;5:36.
The first 16 studies in the list are weight loss trials, the last two are studies on type 2-diabetics (usually overweight) showing the same effect. Many of the studies are of six months or one year duration, one of them (Shai et al) is two years long.

All of these studies show significantly more weight loss for the group that were advised to eat a low carb diet (Atkins, in most cases).

As far as I know the opposite has never been shown: low carb has never lost a weight loss trial significantly. This means that low carb is winning versus the failed low fat/low calorie advice by 18-0!"

tiffanycherie

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/a/protein.htm

This website states calculate your weight x .37 to figure out the minimum amount of protein you should eat. It also states protein levels are based on our age, weight, and activity level. So, I believe this gives you a base on where your protein should be at

ALNoog

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/a/protein.htm

This website states calculate your weight x .37 to figure out the minimum amount of protein you should eat. It also states protein levels are based on our age, weight, and activity level. So, I believe this gives you a base on where your protein should be at

Thanks for that!
According to that I am almost spot on. It said 92-95

And I usually keep it around 85-99

Spreyton22K

eating low carb is actually causing the calorie deficit. It shouldn't, by itself, cause gout. I'm thinking that low carb is causing excessive low calorie,intake and then causing the fat breakdown that is causing high purine levels in the blood, which is then causing crystals to forming the foot joints and then inflammation. and pain. I'm thinking that if I just eat more I might solve my problem. The human body does not need sugar or carbs to thrive. Right?

I have no idea about the connection between low-carbing and the exacerbation of gout symptoms.

I suffer with Lupus and another complicated systemic pain condition......which causes same issues that gout does, just different origin. I was wondering if you are making sure to be very generous with your fluid intake to dilute the pain causing crystals of which you speak.

Also, another resource which may or may not interest you is the diet plan that is 'endorsed' by Doctors treating arthritis, Lupus and other inflammatory conditions....you would have to do a Google Search.....Rheumatoid Arthritis Anti-Inflammatory Diet, should get you plenty of hits.

Good luck......I will add another comment FWIW, I commend you trying different styles of eating and weight loss to help your pain, but if after a reasonable time of eating that way your symptoms flare up, it might be time to try another approach......having such flare ups can be hard to reign in if left.

missiontofitness

Any suggestions?

Yea, don't go low carb. It's not a healthy and sustainable way to eat. You can lose weight fast, but inflammatory diseases, like gout, and many others, are made worse. The healthiest foods on the planet are fruits and vegetables, and they are mostly high carb foods. You can lose a lot of weight eating a fruit and vegetable diet, AND remain healthy and free from disease.

Please stop spreading this on every thread.
Please do not give medical advise for this diet. You are not his doctor, or a nutritionist.
Please feel free to share your personal diet, but don't be touting it everywhere as a one-size fits all cure for everyone. It isn't.

Also:
Tomatoes aren't high carb.
Kale isn't high carb.
Zucchini isn't high carb.
Carrot isn't high carb.
Pepper isn't high carb.


The only high carb veggie I could find on a whim is potatoes. And those are not a viable basis for a lifestyle change.
So basically, you'd advising this man to eat his weight in produce every day to meet your advisement of high carb goals, which will magically cure his disease? Right.

bnybanker

I know what you are saying- I learned the hard way that tuna fish is a BIG TRIGGER!!!

bnybanker

I do eat very low carb (5%), and moderate protiens (20%)-the rest is simply made up of higher fat!

bnybanker

As I stated several times- I am not eating high protien. I've learned this lesson a while ago. I am eating a low carb, moderate protien (under 100g/day) NOT alot of meat or shellfish. The ketogenic diet is a HIGH FAT det (which should not cause a purine proble) The nearest I can tell- if my diet becomes too low calorie- my body produces more uric acid as the body's response to burning fat stores and producing more end-products that raise uric acid levels in the blood, which, unanble to dissolve, crystalize and settle in the joints. BUT I WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT-so am stuck with producing too much uric acid as I diet?

missiontofitness

As I stated several times- I am not eating high protien. I've learned this lesson a while ago. I am eating a low carb, moderate protien (under 100g/day) NOT alot of meat or shellfish. The ketogenic diet is a HIGH FAT det (which should not cause a purine proble) The nearest I can tell- if my diet becomes too low calorie- my body produces more uric acid as the body's response to burning fat stores and producing more end-products that raise uric acid levels in the blood, which, unanble to dissolve, crystalize and settle in the joints. BUT I WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT-so am stuck with producing too much uric acid as I diet?

Have you considered talking to a nutritionist? Given your medical history, a nutritionist may be able to help you create a meal plan to get you to your goals, without having too much of an impact on your gout. Might also be a good idea to speak to your doctor, if you're finding these uric acid spikes when your calories dip too low. You can find a happy medium!

bnybanker

Thanks- I believe that your recommendation to hydrate better is well founded. It is suggested in all I read, but maybe not emphazed enough. I do increase my water intake AFTER I experience problems, but maybe need to stay hydrated better TO PREVENT attacks before they start. Thank you.

knra_grl

http://www.ehow.com/facts_4811512_foods-that-trigger-gout.html << this may help sometimes meats will trigger gout attacks

I work with someone with gout and one of his big triggers is seafood

Maybe try getting some of your proteins from other sources like beans?

moylek

The article "Gout: The Missing Chapter from Grood Calories, Bad Calories" on Tim Ferris' web site is worth a read ...

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/10/05/gout/

Here's one of the key bits ...

"The evidence arguing for sugar or fructose as the primary cause of gout is two-fold. First, the distribution of gout in western populations has paralleled the availability of sugar for centuries, and not all refined carbohydrates in this case. It was in the mid-17th century, that gout went from being exclusively a disease of the rich and the nobility to spread downward and outward through British society, reaching near epidemic proportions by the 18th century. Historians refer to this as the “gout wave,”(16) and it coincides precisely with the birth and explosive growth of the British sugar industry(17) and the transformation of sugar, in the words of the anthropologist Sydney Mintz, from “a luxury of kings into the kingly luxury of commoners.”(18) "

It's not *simply* a matter of sugar intake, and neither Taubes nor Ferris make that claim. And there is certainly a correlation with obesity.

My own experience is that if I keep my beer, bread, and sugar intake down, I can usually eat whatever I want as far as meat, cheese, and shellfish go (these being classic triggers).

bnybanker

thank you for your suggestions. beans are both protein and starches- i.e. carbs, so I don't want to go that route.

bnybanker

i'm eating very low carb, which means no sugar, no fruits, no beer etc I realize that there may be a relationhip with sugar and gout, but that is my issue- I'm not touching sugars and carbs //

bnybanker

FYI---Atkins died because he slipped on an icy sidewalk and banged his head- the dying of his diet is au urban legend

albertabeefy

FYI---Atkins died because he slipped on an icy sidewalk and banged his head- the dying of his diet is au urban legend

That's one of the things that lots of anti-meat (vegan/vegetarian/peta/etc) organizations and activists continue to claim.

There's a good write-up on Atkins health conditions and the events around his death here: http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/atkinsdiet/a/dratkinsdeath.htm

ALNoog

FYI---Atkins died because he slipped on an icy sidewalk and banged his head- the dying of his diet is au urban legend

Well I know that.... But she refuses to believe it...

jrose1982

I'm also low-carb and paleo. Gout runs in my family. I suspect I've had some flare-ups, but they never lasted long enough to see a doctor, so I can't say for sure that I have it.

For understanding the science about low-carb and the issues that people associate with it (as well as finding support), I find www.marksdailyapple.com to be my best resource. And My Fitness Pal community to be my worst resource (Funny how many people that responded to you apparently don't get how low-carb works. Or don't have gout. Why are they responding then? Rant over.)
The writers of Mark's Daily Apple are really good at dissecting the research so normal people can understand it, and sticking to actual research, not rumors or mere perception.

Anyway, here's a link to an article on Marks' Daily Apple about gout. I hope it helps:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/gout-primal-paleo-diet/#axzz2xb1ORBTb

jrose1982

I just wrote a really long response that isn't really worth reading. Since I can't seem to figure out how to delete it, editing it will have to do.

Have a nice day

jrose1982

As for hydrating...

Don't forget, that the first pounds you lose on low-carb are usually water weight. I can't remember why, but your body flushes out a lot of water while you're transitioning. So, add that to the case for hydration.

moylek

i'm eating very low carb, which means no sugar, no fruits, no beer etc I realize that there may be a relationhip with sugar and gout, but that is my issue- I'm not touching sugars and carbs //

Gout is a funny beast - for such a common problem, it seems very ill understood. If you followed everyone's advise, I guess you would have to cut out most of the protein, the fat, *and* the carbs. Have you tried that?

neandermagnon

don't eat low carb. eat balanced macros, aim for 40/30/30 instead.

if your diet is making a medical condition worse, then don't do that diet. There are other ways to get/stay lean. Balanced macros works fine. Seems like you need to eat a certain amount of carbs to be healthy, so that means you have to eat them.

bnybanker

Thank you very much for a nice post and some good advise.

bnybanker

Sorry- After a good deal of careful research, I firmly believe that sugar and grains are basically not handled well by the human body and are to be avoided. I don't really want to open a debate this point. It is just what I accept as the "Truth" But I really do appreciate your advise and suggestions. T hank you.