TDEE.....,AGAIN

djwife03

My tdee -20% is 1652. So i am supposed to eat 1652 calories everyday, correct? But if i exercise and burn 400-500 calories, doesnt that take my calories down to 1200, which is too low? With tdee you dont eat back exercise calories, so im just tyring to understand!

sargessexyone

TDEE already has your exercise calories added in so NO you would not eat them.

easjer

Your TDEE should be taking your current lifestyle into account, so you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Your exercise is already factored in - which is why it's higher than your BMR.

easjer

I'll use some round number as an example. Let's say your BMR is 1300, and your TDEE for a lightly active lifestyle is 2000. You want to eat at TDEE-20% to lose fat, right? That works out to 1600 calories. If you were not using TDEE, then you would eat 1300 calories every day + whatever exercise calories you earn through working out. The difference is that TDEE has already factored in 300 'extra' calories per day as an average. Some days you may work out harder, another day not at all. TDEE-20% works on averages and assumes you assess your exercise correctly for a week.

shadow2soul

Your supposed to include your exercise in your TDEE calculation. Providing you picked the correct activity level, your exercise calorie burns have already been accounted for.

djwife03

I set my activity level to sedentary, even though i workout 4 days a week, because i have a desk job

cwolfman13

My tdee -20% is 1652. So i am supposed to eat 1652 calories everyday, correct? But if i exercise and burn 400-500 calories, doesnt that take my calories down to 1200, which is too low? With tdee you dont eat back exercise calories, so im just tyring to understand!

Your TDEE should include an estimate of your exercise already. People who use this method either track and document their exercise elsewhere or put in 1 calorie for whatever they did...if you're customizing your goals then the whole MFP net calorie thing goes out the window. You eat back with MFP because exercise is extra activity that is not included in your activity level. The two methods are basically 6 of 1 if you're doing it right.

With the TDEE method you will have days where you will be in a larger deficit and days where you will be in a smaller deficit depending on your activity that particular day and it should average out over the course of the week to whatever your loss rate goal is.

Also, if you're burning 500 calories per day most days then I would think your TDEE would be higher than 2065

easjer

I have a desk job too, but when calculating TDEE, I set it to moderately active because I (usually) walk ~7,000 steps a day and work out 3-5 hours a week.

What calculator are you using? TDEE accounts for ALL exertion above BMR, and there should be some option that fits your lifestyle.

djwife03

Well as i said, i set my activity level to sedentary because i have a desk job. Should i change to lightly active?

cwolfman13

I set my activity level to sedentary, even though i workout 4 days a week, because i have a desk job

that is the way you do it with MFP and the NEAT (net calorie method)....with TDEE you have to include an estimate of your exercise activity. TDEE - Total Daily Energy Expenditure...total means everything. MFP uses the NEAT method (Non Exercise Activity Thermogenesis) which is why if you have a desk job you put sedentary...your NEAT is more or less sedentary and exercise is additional activity.

Exercise activity has to be accounted for somewhere...with MFP, that somewhere is on the tail end of the equation when you log exercise and eat back those calories...with TDEE an estimate is included up front in your activity level.

If you're going to set TDEE to sedentary you may as well just use MFP the way it is designed to be used because that's essentially what you're doing. Keep in mind that if you're comparing a sedentary TDEE - 20% and that number is 1600 calories to a 1200 calorie MFP goal, it is because you are comparing apples to oranges in terms of loss rate goals. The TDEE - 20% is closer to 1 Lb per week...MFP's 1200 calorie minimum is closer to 2 Lbs per week loss rate. It doesn't seem like that much when you're just looking at the number 1 vs 2...but it's a difference between having a 500 calorie per day deficit vs 1,000 calorie per day deficit.

krennie8

Well as i said, i set my activity level to sedentary because i have a desk job. Should i change to lightly active?

I have a desk job too & lightly active fits my own calculated TDEE best. B/c that takes into account the 10 minute walk into the building from my car, the 10 back, walking down the 3 flights of stairs and back up for lunch, and everything else I do in a day. If I exercise on top of that I generally give myself some allowance for more (although I go through rare workout spurts).

From what you've said I'd place yourself as Moderate. Or do light and eat back whatever portion of your exercise cals you'd like.

redwoodkestrel

My tdee -20% is 1652. So i am supposed to eat 1652 calories everyday, correct? But if i exercise and burn 400-500 calories, doesnt that take my calories down to 1200, which is too low? With tdee you dont eat back exercise calories, so im just tyring to understand!

Are you saying that MFP is telling you to eat 1652 calories a day or that you've calculated your TDEE and that -20% is 1652? Because MFP does not use the TDEE-20% method.

When you calculate your TDEE you should be taking into account all activity you do on a fairly regular basis, in which case you would NOT eat your exercise calories back.

If you're using the MFP NEAT method, then yes, you should be eating some to most of your exercise calories back.

psych101

I set my activity level to sedentary, even though i workout 4 days a week, because i have a desk job

If you're working out your TDEE then you include your weekly exercise in the equation - why would you set it to sedentary if you're working out 4 days a week?

Work out your TDEE using moderately active, minus 20% and eat those calories (but not any exercise calories) for a month, see how you go and adjust your calories from there as needed.

djwife03

Yes my tdee-20% is 1652....with activity level set at sedentary

djwife03

Im 40yrs old

5'11

170lbs....i was 166 when i started mfp and have gained weight. The last couple months i was inconsistent with my diary as my grandma was very ill and then passed away. But im back to logging daily. Even when i wasnt logging daily i tried to eat well. And my workouts didnt change.

easjer

If you want to use TDEE-20%, then yes, you need to change it from sedentary to whatever option most closely resembles your workouts. Otherwise, just use the MFP method, which records your exercise and gives you an additional calories allotment based on your recorded activity for the day.

The benefit to TDEE is that you have a set goal every day that doesn't change and takes your calories into account from the beginning. Makes planning easier.

The benefit to MFP is that you don't deplete your deficit on days you are less active and can increase your deficit or calorie allowance on days you are more active.

I personally like TDEE because it prompts me not to be lazy, but to get in the workout that is factored in, and I'm not sitting down at 10:00 pm and realizing I have 300 calories I need to eat. But I sort of mix the two and rely on my fitbit's daily expenditure and know generally what I'm earning based on my activity levels.

Aaron_K123

So there is your TDEE (your Total Daily Energy Expenditure) which is the amount of calories your body consumes in a day taking into account all of your activity and then there is your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) which is the amount of calories your body requires for basic function (what you would burn over 24 hours if you did nothing but sleep the entire time). I think the general principle for weight loss is to eat between your TDEE and your BMR and if you want to eat -20% of your TDEE then you exercise enough to ensure that that -20% does not bring you below your BMR. If you drop below your BMR in calorie intake you are more likely to be having poor nutrition in such a way that your body will consume your muscle in addition to your fat.

So for example my BMR is about 1800. I do regular cardio and weight training that brings my TDEE to 2500. I try to eat 2000 calories a day which is above my BMR (1800) but 20% below my TDEE (2500).

Basically just consider your BMR to be your lower bound on what you can eat calorically while your TDEE is your upper bound, assuming you want to lose weight.

djwife03

So, on days I don't work out, i should eat my nets calories, 1652? do I eat that same number on days I workout and burn 400 calories? and then not eat them back? I just need this as simple as possible! Like, weight loss/net calories for dummies! LOL

cwolfman13

So, on days I don't work out, i should eat my nets calories, 1652? do I eat that same number on days I workout and burn 400 calories? and then not eat them back? I just need this as simple as possible! Like, weight loss/net calories for dummies! LOL

When you are using the TDEE method, you eat roughly the same calories day in and day out regardless of whether you exercised that day or not and it should all net out over the course of a week...so on exercise days you're going to have a bigger deficit than non-exercise days where you might be eating closer to maintenance.

Example...my TDEE (which includes 3x weekly of lifting and around 80 miles per week on my bike) is around 2,800 calories. My TDEE - 20% is 2,240 calories which results in right around 1 Lb per week loss. I would eat those 2,240 calories regardless of whether I'm working out or not that particular day and on a Monday I'm going to have a bigger calorie deficit than I do on a Friday which is a rest day...but over the course of the week is all nets out to my 3,500 calorie deficit.

With TDEE you're not so much looking at things from a daily POV...it's more of a weekly look; whereas with MFP and the net calorie method yo have to be more day by day.

deksgrl

I set my activity level to sedentary, even though i workout 4 days a week, because i have a desk job

When you calculate your TDEE, you factor in your workouts. You aren't sedentary.

BigGuy47

Well as i said, i set my activity level to sedentary because i have a desk job.

Stop doing that. Set your activity level based on your exercise routine.

ETA: Wolfman nailed it. Factor the average activity over the course of the week instead of daily activity. For example; if you lift heavy for 3-4 days a week and rest on alternate days you would consider your activity level moderate or high depending on the intensity of the work outs.

It's important to have a consistent routine when using the TDEE method. The MFP method for calculating cals (NEAT) doesn't utilize averages so it consistency doesn't matter.

djwife03

Well according to scooby, my tdee - 20% is 1911 calories! This is based in me exercising 3-5hrs a week. I don't know how I can meet that number! Plus I've been gaining 1-2lbs every couple of weeks, which i can't figure out. I started this journey at 166lbs. Then I went to 168. I am now 170 on a good day. I haven't seen 168 in a few weeks now. I don't know what's going on! I run 3-4 miles 3 days a week and do some strength training also. Today I think I've done well eating wise but I've gained 2lbs since this morning(started at 171, and now at 173!), which I know is normal but still..... Seems I can only lose a pound if I run. Then it goes back up again. Even my measurements have stalled. Now in hungry, ready for supper and frustrated!

Aaron_K123

Well according to scooby, my tdee - 20% is 1911 calories! This is based in me exercising 3-5hrs a week. I don't know how I can meet that number! Plus I've been gaining 1-2lbs every couple of weeks, which i can't figure out. I started this journey at 166lbs. Then I went to 168. I am now 170 on a good day. I haven't seen 168 in a few weeks now. I don't know what's going on! I run 3-4 miles 3 days a week and do some strength training also. Today I think I've done well eating wise but I've gained 2lbs since this morning(started at 171, and now at 173!), which I know is normal but still..... Seems I can only lose a pound if I run. Then it goes back up again. Even my measurements have stalled. Now in hungry, ready for supper and frustrated!

Seem pretty focused on scale weight. Have you measured your waist and hips with any regularity?

djwife03

Yees I have measured regularly, and I've went back up a size which is why I'm frustrated! I know I pay too much attention to he scale and I'm working on that. I just don't get the weight gain every couple weeks either.

Well according to scooby, my tdee - 20% is 1911 calories! This is based in me exercising 3-5hrs a week. I don't know how I can meet that number! Plus I've been gaining 1-2lbs every couple of weeks, which i can't figure out. I started this journey at 166lbs. Then I went to 168. I am now 170 on a good day. I haven't seen 168 in a few weeks now. I don't know what's going on! I run 3-4 miles 3 days a week and do some strength training also. Today I think I've done well eating wise but I've gained 2lbs since this morning(started at 171, and now at 173!), which I know is normal but still..... Seems I can only lose a pound if I run. Then it goes back up again. Even my measurements have stalled. Now in hungry, ready for supper and frustrated!

Seem pretty focused on scale weight. Have you measured your waist and hips with any regularity?

deksgrl

Do you use a food scale and weigh, measure, log everything accurately?

There are days in your food diary where you are eating 1100 and days where you are eating 1700, 1800. Why don't you try consistently eating 1800 for a month and see what happens? Don't change things whenever you see the scale go up or down. In fact, put the scale away and just focus on eating and working out.

djwife03

So, i weighed myself this morning, after not weighing for a few days. up 2 lbs! how is this happening?!!!! I'm certainly not eating that many calories to gain one pound, let alone 2! I have even been exercising, just like I do every week! I know weight fluctuates daily, and I did recently up my daily calories, based on my actiivty level. I've been quite good this week so far food wise too. I'm so furstrated! since I started this journey, I've gained, not lost.

I know after upping my calories, I should give it a while before I freak out, but i just don't get this.

No, i do not have a food scale, but I do measure my food, even using a smaller dinner plate.. I don't feel I'm eating too much either. UGH!

Aaron_K123

You seriously need to throw your scale away if that's your reaction to it. It isn't helping you.

Your weight will fluctuate a good 5-6 pounds randomly naturally and that's perfectly normal. Clearly you did not eat 7000 calories above your maintenance level between now and 2 days ago so those 2 pounds are not fat. Scale weight should be used as a measure of progress only on the timescale of months certainly not days.

Aaron_K123

Here, let me show you something really quick.



That is my weight loss when I dieted three years ago. I ate consistently the same amount of calories every day regardless of my exercise I just ate an amount below my calculated average TDEE and stuck with it.

I want you to notice something about the timescale. Look at the whole thing and there is a very obvious and consistant weight loss over the entire period. Now with your eyes look at any given month. Look from February to March for example. Or March to April. Notice something? Even over the period of one month if I had looked at my weight over that time it would have appeared to just be bouncing up and down randomly with no clear decrease over time.

It takes many months of consistant dieting to see a clear weight loss. You can weigh yourself more regularly than that just to have some data to track with but KNOW this and know that if you go up 2 pounds over 2 days its meaningless.

This is something you are likely going to be doing for a year at least if you want to do it right and having panic attacks over changes that happen on the scale of days is not going to help you.

djwife03

wow! that's amazing! i never looked at it like this. I know the scale is messing with my head, obvioulsy. I guess I would just like to know why? I have even went back up a size. it's frustrating because I really do work hard, when I work out, and to see no real change make me so frustrated. I just can't seem to get on the right track.
I eat better now that I ever have, and still nto losing. I workout, I run, i do circuit and strength. So what the heck? the last year and a half I've gained about 4lbs. A month ago, i weighed 168, now I'm 170 on a good day, 172 today. so, I'm worried it will just keep creeping upward!

I try to run 4 times a week....usually 4 miles( I have astma so sometimes I walk a for a minute, but then run), then I will do some leg work(lunges, squats) or abs.
If I don't run, I do jillian michaels DVD's and do some weights. I don't workout 7 days a week......but wondering if I'm going to have to start!

I guess the hardest part for me is knowing that if anything I'm doing more than I did a year ago, but gaining, instead of losing. i worked so hard to lose and now I'm not.

Here, let me show you something really quick.



That is my weight loss when I dieted three years ago. I ate consistently the same amount of calories every day regardless of my exercise I just ate an amount below my calculated average TDEE and stuck with it.

I want you to notice something about the timescale. Look at the whole thing and there is a very obvious and consistant weight loss over the entire period. Now with your eyes look at any given month. Look from February to March for example. Or March to April. Notice something? Even over the period of one month if I had looked at my weight over that time it would have appeared to just be bouncing up and down randomly with no clear decrease over time.

It takes many months of consistant dieting to see a clear weight loss. You can weigh yourself more regularly than that just to have some data to track with but KNOW this and know that if you go up 2 pounds over 2 days its meaningless.

This is something you are likely going to be doing for a year at least if you want to do it right and having panic attacks over changes that happen on the scale of days is not going to help you.

Aaron_K123

Well the "why" is that your body occasionally retains water. This could be due to hundreds of different small reasons that you are never going to be able to predict which is why your body weight will appear to fluctuate randomly.


There will never be a period in your life where every day you stand on a scale you weight exactly X. It will always be X + or - 5 pounds.

The big causes are: How much water did you drink? How much sodium did you have the previous day? What stage in your cycle are you at (as a woman)?

I am going to make up some numbers okay so if they don't fit you that's fine just making them up to illustrate a point.


Lets say you weigh yourself regularly over a week. You will probably see something like this.

(168, 168, 165, 170, 169, 167, 171)

Then two months from now you see this

(164, 161, 164, 165, 166, 167, 163)

If you focus on just the week then it looks like you are making no progress. You pick two random days to compare and it might look like you are putting on weight. But, if you compare the average of one week to a week that is two months later you will notice you have lost 4 pounds on average.

I actually think regularly weighing yourself is worth doing but ONLY if you can get out of your head enough to realize that the numbers are only meaningful over long time scales of at least a couple of months.

If you find that your daily changes in scale weight bother you then I suggest you stop weighing yourself, it isn't that helpful to you.

deksgrl

Water weight. You had a couple of high sodium days there, which can cause you to retain water. Also, on a day you lift or the day after you lift, you might show higher on the scale, because your muscles will retain water for the repair process. Also, depending on where you are in your monthly cycle, you might be retaining more water...... digestion, if your body hasn't eliminated everything when you weight...... etc etc etc.

Hide your scale, put it up high on a shelf in the garage or the basement, someplace you don't walk by it every day.

You don't have to work out 7 days a week.