I'm "skinny fat" how can i gain muscle but lose fat?
Replies
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While I would agree that muscle gain during weight loss is MUCH more difficult than bulking my experience has combined the two. Over the last month I have lost about 7 lbs of fat and gained 2 lbs of muscle while on a caloric deficit.
The body composition scale (Omron HBF-510W) measurements are not exact but plotted over the last 30 days the trend is very clear.
I was and am clearly out of shape and that may very well make it easier but it is definitely possible.0 -
While I would agree that muscle gain during weight loss is MUCH more difficult than bulking my experience has combined the two. Over the last month I have lost about 7 lbs of fat and gained 2 lbs of muscle while on a caloric deficit.
The body composition scale (Omron HBF-510W) measurements are not exact but plotted over the last 30 days the trend very clear.
I was and am clearly out of shape and that may very well make it easier but it is definitely possible.
are you talking size gains?
that looks like a machine you stand on- I suspect no that accurate for actually telling you what you've gained and loss. Also I'm not sure I'd say you gained 2 lbs in a month? maybe because you're new... but my BS sensor is tingling.0 -
I just multiply body weight times muscle percentage and fat percentage to attain muscle weight and fat weight. I will be taking dimensional measurements again soon as well but muscle tone, relaxation, fat/muscle composition, etc... make conclusions difficult.
Edit --- Sorry, I should have said the scale indicates muscle and fat percentages based on body conductivity.0 -
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You definitely see fluctuations from day to day even though I only measure first thing in the morning but the overall trend is definitely there. The report plotting function on this site makes it very clear. And yes I measure everyday even though I know this is often discouraged =P0
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I'm having trouble seeing if you are disagreeing with what I had said or just adding onto it.
No you haven't. You think you have.You cannot gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously.
Choose one.
The best you can do while losing fat is preserving as much muscle as possible--you do this by consistently eating in a moderate caloric deficit.
On the other end of the spectrum, the best you can do while aiming to gain muscle is to gain as little fat as possible--you do this by consistently eating in a moderate caloric surplus. That being said, it's impossible to gain absolutely no fat while eating in a surplus.
This is an interesting take… are you a personal trainer? I'm interested in learning more about your opinion, because I have always experienced the process simultaneously.
Getting stronger does not mean you are gaining muscle. Someone who is new to lifting may see some minimal noob gains but those are short live. While in caloric deficit and with proper training many people think they are building a bunch of new muscle based on what they see in the mirror when in reality it's that they are losing body fat revealing whatever muscle in underneath already giving the illusion that you are gaining muscle.
While in a caloric deficit and training in progressive overload the strength gains that we see are a result of CNS adaptation not the building of new muscle.
I really think would benefit from more clarification. You can't gain mass while eating at a deficit. There's no hypertrophy. You can actually gain muscle weight and lose fat weight. De-conditioned muscles are marbled like good beef. Those strength gains are hardening muscle, and they are technically "gains" within the muscle. They're just not extreme, and people will not gain anything on a measuring tape unless there has been serious atrophy (think medical causes). One is more likely to lose inches and stay the same weight. When that happens, it's because muscle takes up less space than fat at the same weight, and a person is gaining muscle weight while losing fat weight. It's a slow process, but it's body recomposition.
Newb gains can continue for a while, even 6 months, depending on the condition of the new lifter and efforts being made. "Minimal" is relative. For someone who has never lifted, feeling harder all over is a serious motivator.
When I say short lived, yes I did mean 6 months or so, maybe short lived is not the right way to put it because it can easily be interpreted in many ways.
When I say minimal I'm saying it in comparison to when we see people say they gained a lot of muscle on a cut. Of course even a little bit of new muscle can be a big deal for some and not so much for other. So yes minimal is relative.
Body recomposition is possible but very difficult to achieve due to the need for consistent accuracy and the process is painfully slow. Having something work so slow can be very De - motivating for many people.
Not disagreeing with you. Just clarifying. I agree there will be no mass gains. Denser muscle, yes. No mass. Nobody gains a lot of muscle on a cut, but I don't want to have people think that if they're not making "gains" then they're not doing something beneficial. There are a lot of new people on this site who have never picked up a weight. I want everyone to lift because it really is transforming.
Personally, I bulked. I wanted mass gains and a quicker transformation. I'm going to maintenance this week and expect to continue to see slow improvement in overall body composition. After some time, I will cut for a bit to lower body fat, then bulk again.0 -
You may like NiaShanks.com
Learn to focus on gaining strength, less on fat loss and it will come. It just takes time. Lift heavy, some cardio you enjoy if you want and patience. Oh and an understanding of how your diet affects YOUR body.0 -
So why do they say that when the weight fluctuates on the scale you probably gained muscle and what about the before and afters of people who say they lifted heavy they were fat before and skinny after how do you explain that were they eating at a surplus :sad:
People who don't understand how the body works will say that. When you start a new workout regimen, or increase the intensity of your current one, the body will retain water for muscle repair. I have gained 6lbs overnight just from one heavy lifting session.what about the before and afters of people who say they lifted heavy they were fat before and skinny after how do you explain that were they eating at a surplus :sad:
Some people say don't do cardio just lift heavy and you will lose weight thats what I was refferring to
I'm not sure what this ^^^ even means?0 -
I'm having trouble seeing if you are disagreeing with what I had said or just adding onto it.
No you haven't. You think you have.You cannot gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously.
Choose one.
The best you can do while losing fat is preserving as much muscle as possible--you do this by consistently eating in a moderate caloric deficit.
On the other end of the spectrum, the best you can do while aiming to gain muscle is to gain as little fat as possible--you do this by consistently eating in a moderate caloric surplus. That being said, it's impossible to gain absolutely no fat while eating in a surplus.
This is an interesting take… are you a personal trainer? I'm interested in learning more about your opinion, because I have always experienced the process simultaneously.
Getting stronger does not mean you are gaining muscle. Someone who is new to lifting may see some minimal noob gains but those are short live. While in caloric deficit and with proper training many people think they are building a bunch of new muscle based on what they see in the mirror when in reality it's that they are losing body fat revealing whatever muscle in underneath already giving the illusion that you are gaining muscle.
While in a caloric deficit and training in progressive overload the strength gains that we see are a result of CNS adaptation not the building of new muscle.
I really think would benefit from more clarification. You can't gain mass while eating at a deficit. There's no hypertrophy. You can actually gain muscle weight and lose fat weight. De-conditioned muscles are marbled like good beef. Those strength gains are hardening muscle, and they are technically "gains" within the muscle. They're just not extreme, and people will not gain anything on a measuring tape unless there has been serious atrophy (think medical causes). One is more likely to lose inches and stay the same weight. When that happens, it's because muscle takes up less space than fat at the same weight, and a person is gaining muscle weight while losing fat weight. It's a slow process, but it's body recomposition.
Newb gains can continue for a while, even 6 months, depending on the condition of the new lifter and efforts being made. "Minimal" is relative. For someone who has never lifted, feeling harder all over is a serious motivator.
When I say short lived, yes I did mean 6 months or so, maybe short lived is not the right way to put it because it can easily be interpreted in many ways.
When I say minimal I'm saying it in comparison to when we see people say they gained a lot of muscle on a cut. Of course even a little bit of new muscle can be a big deal for some and not so much for other. So yes minimal is relative.
Body recomposition is possible but very difficult to achieve due to the need for consistent accuracy and the process is painfully slow. Having something work so slow can be very De - motivating for many people.
Not disagreeing with you. Just clarifying. I agree there will be no mass gains. Denser muscle, yes. No mass. Nobody gains a lot of muscle on a cut, but I don't want to have people think that if they're not making "gains" then they're not doing something beneficial. There are a lot of new people on this site who have never picked up a weight. I want everyone to lift because it really is transforming.
Personally, I bulked. I wanted mass gains and a quicker transformation. I'm going to maintenance this week and expect to continue to see slow improvement in overall body composition. After some time, I will cut for a bit to lower body fat, then bulk again.
Thank you for clarifying! I don't want to think im over here doing squats and lifting weights for nothing if im eating at a deficit0 -
Okay, so still eating in a deficit to lose weight, no matter how much lifting I do- I will still look all soft and fluffy even getting near goal weight or at goal? Goal weight is healthy, by the way. I've never had good looking muscles.
I'm just totally confused. I can't lower my body fat percentage proportionally then? So, say I'm 175 now and whatever, like 25% body fat. Okay, let's say I get down to 155, this means that my BF% would still be 25% since I've made no muscle gains in a deficit?
Did that question even make sense? Sorry. I'm very tired today. Just wondering (barring strength gains is the CNS with reps or however that works) if lifting weights is pointless in terms of how my body could look once the weight is off? Though I still would like to be stronger as well, but a lot of it is vanity, no lie.0 -
This is why I also do t-tapp, it works the most on my thighs, hips and core, can't ask for more than that.
Editing to say denser muscle helps, you go down sizes and look leaner.0 -
Okay, so still eating in a deficit to lose weight, no matter how much lifting I do- I will still look all soft and fluffy even getting near goal weight or at goal? Goal weight is healthy, by the way. I've never had good looking muscles.
I'm just totally confused. I can't lower my body fat percentage proportionally then? So, say I'm 175 now and whatever, like 25% body fat. Okay, let's say I get down to 155, this means that my BF% would still be 25% since I've made no muscle gains in a deficit?
Did that question even make sense? Sorry. I'm very tired today. Just wondering (barring strength gains is the CNS with reps or however that works) if lifting weights is pointless in terms of how my body could look once the weight is off? Though I still would like to be stronger as well, but a lot of it is vanity, no lie.
Its only making very little sense to me in that I won't gain big huge buff muscles and look like arnold Schwarzenegger on a deficit but I will get stronger :sad: I still cant figure out why then do they advise you to do strength training and build muscle to boost your metabolism on a deficit if your not building any muscle. Could someone tell me the benefits of strength training for someone at a deficit then:flowerforyou:0 -
I'm trying to get out of the "skinnyfat" zone myself. I've definitely gained muscle from doing all different kinds of crunches, planks, lunges, squats and pushups. But now I also have fat on me and would like to cut down to a lower weight to achieve the looks I want. I will certainly try some of the suggestions in this thread.0
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If you lose 20 or 30 lbs you can assume you will remain the same bf%. Your objective is to lose fat while minimizing the amount of lbm lost. That's where resistance training an adequate protein consumption a key, to preserve as much lbm as possible. So if you lose as much of the 20 or 30 lbs as you can in fat with as little lbm as possible your bf% will go down.Okay, so still eating in a deficit to lose weight, no matter how much lifting I do- I will still look all soft and fluffy even getting near goal weight or at goal? Goal weight is healthy, by the way. I've never had good looking muscles.
I'm just totally confused. I can't lower my body fat percentage proportionally then? So, say I'm 175 now and whatever, like 25% body fat. Okay, let's say I get down to 155, this means that my BF% would still be 25% since I've made no muscle gains in a deficit?
Did that question even make sense? Sorry. I'm very tired today. Just wondering (barring strength gains is the CNS with reps or however that works) if lifting weights is pointless in terms of how my body could look once the weight is off? Though I still would like to be stronger as well, but a lot of it is vanity, no lie.
Angel. You lift heavy weights to preserve muscle while in deficit. That's why.
Okay, let's see if I can math this correctly. :laugh:
Let's say you weigh 175 lbs with 25% body fat (very unlikely, but let's go with it). That means you've got 44 (rounded up) lbs of fat. Then let's say you lose 20 lbs of fat only (because you lift weights and eat protein. You'd end up at 155 lbs but you'd have 24 lbs of fat. Your body fat percentage would be 15% (which is really really low for a woman).
Let's say instead that you lose an equal amount of fat and muscle because you don't lift. Now you still weigh 155. But you still have 34 lbs of fat (because you lost 20 but 10 was muscle). That means your body fat % is 22%.0 -
Okay, so still eating in a deficit to lose weight, no matter how much lifting I do- I will still look all soft and fluffy even getting near goal weight or at goal? Goal weight is healthy, by the way. I've never had good looking muscles.
I'm just totally confused. I can't lower my body fat percentage proportionally then? So, say I'm 175 now and whatever, like 25% body fat. Okay, let's say I get down to 155, this means that my BF% would still be 25% since I've made no muscle gains in a deficit?
Did that question even make sense? Sorry. I'm very tired today. Just wondering (barring strength gains is the CNS with reps or however that works) if lifting weights is pointless in terms of how my body could look once the weight is off? Though I still would like to be stronger as well, but a lot of it is vanity, no lie.
Its only making very little sense to me in that I won't gain big huge buff muscles and look like arnold Schwarzenegger on a deficit but I will get stronger :sad: I still cant figure out why then do they advise you to do strength training and build muscle to boost your metabolism on a deficit if your not building any muscle. Could someone tell me the benefits of strength training for someone at a deficit then:flowerforyou:
When you're in a deficit you lose water, fat, and Lean Body Mass. When you lift heavy in said deficit you are working to MAINTAIN that LBM, so you lose mostly FAT and WATER. This way, since you are losing mostly fat an water, you will get the illusion that your muscles are getting bigger because you are stripping the fat away from them. After a few months of this you will begin noticing you have much better muscle definition.....or "tone".
You will also get stronger through nueroadaptation (sp), which basically means your body learns how to be more efficient at firing muscles, thus making it easier to lift heavier loads.0 -
Okay, so still eating in a deficit to lose weight, no matter how much lifting I do- I will still look all soft and fluffy even getting near goal weight or at goal? Goal weight is healthy, by the way. I've never had good looking muscles.
I'm just totally confused. I can't lower my body fat percentage proportionally then? So, say I'm 175 now and whatever, like 25% body fat. Okay, let's say I get down to 155, this means that my BF% would still be 25% since I've made no muscle gains in a deficit?
Did that question even make sense? Sorry. I'm very tired today. Just wondering (barring strength gains is the CNS with reps or however that works) if lifting weights is pointless in terms of how my body could look once the weight is off? Though I still would like to be stronger as well, but a lot of it is vanity, no lie.
Its only making very little sense to me in that I won't gain big huge buff muscles and look like arnold Schwarzenegger on a deficit but I will get stronger :sad: I still cant figure out why then do they advise you to do strength training and build muscle to boost your metabolism on a deficit if your not building any muscle. Could someone tell me the benefits of strength training for someone at a deficit then:flowerforyou:
Look at the math I just posted, I think it will answer your question. Hopefully. If I did it right.
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If you lose 20 or 30 lbs you can assume you will remain the same bf%. Your objective is to lose fat while minimizing the amount of lbm lost. That's where resistance training an adequate protein consumption a key, to preserve as much lbm as possible. So if you lose as much of the 20 or 30 lbs as you can in fat with as little lbm as possible your bf% will go down.Okay, so still eating in a deficit to lose weight, no matter how much lifting I do- I will still look all soft and fluffy even getting near goal weight or at goal? Goal weight is healthy, by the way. I've never had good looking muscles.
I'm just totally confused. I can't lower my body fat percentage proportionally then? So, say I'm 175 now and whatever, like 25% body fat. Okay, let's say I get down to 155, this means that my BF% would still be 25% since I've made no muscle gains in a deficit?
Did that question even make sense? Sorry. I'm very tired today. Just wondering (barring strength gains is the CNS with reps or however that works) if lifting weights is pointless in terms of how my body could look once the weight is off? Though I still would like to be stronger as well, but a lot of it is vanity, no lie.
Angel. You lift heavy weights to preserve muscle while in deficit. That's why.
I'm assuming you haven't read much of what was said in this thread.I'm trying to get out of the "skinnyfat" zone myself. I've definitely gained muscle from doing all different kinds of crunches, planks, lunges, squats and pushups. But now I also have fat on me and would like to cut down to a lower weight to achieve the looks I want. I will certainly try some of the suggestions in this thread.
^^^ lol
Thank you!
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If you lose 20 or 30 lbs you can assume you will remain the same bf%. Your objective is to lose fat while minimizing the amount of lbm lost. That's where resistance training an adequate protein consumption a key, to preserve as much lbm as possible. So if you lose as much of the 20 or 30 lbs as you can in fat with as little lbm as possible your bf% will go down.Okay, so still eating in a deficit to lose weight, no matter how much lifting I do- I will still look all soft and fluffy even getting near goal weight or at goal? Goal weight is healthy, by the way. I've never had good looking muscles.
I'm just totally confused. I can't lower my body fat percentage proportionally then? So, say I'm 175 now and whatever, like 25% body fat. Okay, let's say I get down to 155, this means that my BF% would still be 25% since I've made no muscle gains in a deficit?
Did that question even make sense? Sorry. I'm very tired today. Just wondering (barring strength gains is the CNS with reps or however that works) if lifting weights is pointless in terms of how my body could look once the weight is off? Though I still would like to be stronger as well, but a lot of it is vanity, no lie.
Angel. You lift heavy weights to preserve muscle while in deficit. That's why.
Okay, let's see if I can math this correctly. :laugh:
Let's say you weigh 175 lbs with 25% body fat (very unlikely, but let's go with it). That means you've got 44 (rounded up) lbs of fat. Then let's say you lose 20 lbs of fat only (because you lift weights and eat protein. You'd end up at 155 lbs but you'd have 24 lbs of fat. Your body fat percentage would be 15% (which is really really low for a woman).
Let's say instead that you lose an equal amount of fat and muscle because you don't lift. Now you still weigh 155. But you still have 34 lbs of fat (because you lost 20 but 10 was muscle). That means your body fat % is 22%.
So what your saying is if I dont strength train some of the weight im losing will be muscle and not fat so ill end up weighing less but still looking fat (skinny fat?) :noway: (does squats while eating a protein bar) :drinker: got it thank you 0 -
Yes angel that is the correct interpretation.0
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If you lose 20 or 30 lbs you can assume you will remain the same bf%. Your objective is to lose fat while minimizing the amount of lbm lost. That's where resistance training an adequate protein consumption a key, to preserve as much lbm as possible. So if you lose as much of the 20 or 30 lbs as you can in fat with as little lbm as possible your bf% will go down.Okay, so still eating in a deficit to lose weight, no matter how much lifting I do- I will still look all soft and fluffy even getting near goal weight or at goal? Goal weight is healthy, by the way. I've never had good looking muscles.
I'm just totally confused. I can't lower my body fat percentage proportionally then? So, say I'm 175 now and whatever, like 25% body fat. Okay, let's say I get down to 155, this means that my BF% would still be 25% since I've made no muscle gains in a deficit?
Did that question even make sense? Sorry. I'm very tired today. Just wondering (barring strength gains is the CNS with reps or however that works) if lifting weights is pointless in terms of how my body could look once the weight is off? Though I still would like to be stronger as well, but a lot of it is vanity, no lie.
Angel. You lift heavy weights to preserve muscle while in deficit. That's why.
Okay, let's see if I can math this correctly. :laugh:
Let's say you weigh 175 lbs with 25% body fat (very unlikely, but let's go with it). That means you've got 44 (rounded up) lbs of fat. Then let's say you lose 20 lbs of fat only (because you lift weights and eat protein. You'd end up at 155 lbs but you'd have 24 lbs of fat. Your body fat percentage would be 15% (which is really really low for a woman).
Let's say instead that you lose an equal amount of fat and muscle because you don't lift. Now you still weigh 155. But you still have 34 lbs of fat (because you lost 20 but 10 was muscle). That means your body fat % is 22%.
Okay. That makes more sense. Trying to maintain the amount of muscle I have at this point. Those weren't real numbers at all, lol. I just threw out something random because I don't know my BF% and didn't want to state what I weigh. So sorry for the weird random numbers. Body fat would be lower because I didn't lose muscle. Okay. lol.0 -
Great info!0
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Hello!
I have since beginning of December last year when I started working out, reduced my weight by about 1.5 kg per week in average, while at the same time improved my strength (I keep very detailed records of my workouts) by about 4-6% in average per week.
That weight loss can only come from burning fat, while I build muscle, so you can definitely build muscle and burn fat at the same time!
I'm doing resistance training 3 times per week for about 2-2.5 hours per session, doing a full body workout with 14 exercises, 3-4 sets per exercise and between 12-20 reps per set. This is to build strength and endurance, and especially to burn as many calories as possible during workout. I also keep the intensity as high as I can within the rep range.
Only this week have I started supplementing with cardio in the form of brisk walking. I'm still too heavy to run without risk to my lower back.
In regards to diet, well, I stay completely away from carbonated drinks (including sports/energy drinks), drinking practically only water, the occasional fruit juice and a cup of coffee in the morning. I eat sensibly, focusing on getting enough protein, but not really counting calories much.
One mistake many people do is to drink sports/energy drink while (or shortly after) exercise. Unless you're an elite athlete this serves no purpose and will do more harm than good! You will in effect consume the same or more calories than you've just been working hard to lose. Just drink water!
Focusing on resistance training, with some supplemental cardio, avoiding sugars and getting enough protein is what works for me.0 -
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Back on topic, the most efficient skinnyfat solution is to first bulk then cut.
If you are not currently strength training, bulking shouldn't begin until you reach the point of strength gain stalling workout to workout, as you aren't yet using your existing muscles efficiently enough to bulk efficiently (too much fat will be gained).
Once you reach that point, bulk for a bit, then cut the new fat gain off plus a bit more, then repeat the process a time or two again and you'll be out of the skinnyfat zone.
Fair warning, losing 50 lbs is easier than getting out of the skinnyfat zone.
Yep to this. Losing 60 pounds with cardio made me 120 pounds of unhappy. I did strength training at maintenance for a long time and saw moderate results. Then I started a real bulk 5 months ago incorporating a hypertrophy program, and it was the smartest thing I did.
If you are overweight then strength train in a deficit. If you are underweight, then bulk. If you are at ideal weight, bulk and you may change your mind on what ideal weight is.0 -
30 day shred...at Walmart for $10. Fast and effective!!!!0
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Back on topic, the most efficient skinnyfat solution is to first bulk then cut.
If you are not currently strength training, bulking shouldn't begin until you reach the point of strength gain stalling workout to workout, as you aren't yet using your existing muscles efficiently enough to bulk efficiently (too much fat will be gained).
Once you reach that point, bulk for a bit, then cut the new fat gain off plus a bit more, then repeat the process a time or two again and you'll be out of the skinnyfat zone.
Fair warning, losing 50 lbs is easier than getting out of the skinnyfat zone.
And this answers my other question perfectly which was how do you know when you should start trying to gain muscle
Yep to this. Losing 60 pounds with cardio made me 120 pounds of unhappy. I did strength training at maintenance for a long time and saw moderate results. Then I started a real bulk 5 months ago incorporating a hypertrophy program, and it was the smartest thing I did.
If you are overweight then strength train in a deficit. If you are underweight, then bulk. If you are at ideal weight, bulk and you may change your mind on what ideal weight is.0 -
Best Advice!!0
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Annnnnnnnnnnnnd............ Nope.
Not looking to really criticize people's routines today, but man yours in really not good.
Again, nope.
LOL I didn't have the energy to type something out- but this covers it.0 -
This is all great information. So just recently in addition to following my 1lb deficit here on MFP, I'm now into my third week doing the Body by You (YAYOG for women) bodyweight training in addition to my walking (fitbit). I am doing this as I am about 20-ish lbs away from my ultimate goal and want to really work on all over body recomposition as I am not happy with my BF layers in the usual problem areas.
Since I am about 20lbs away from my goal weight, am I on track with doing it this way?0
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