80 lbs lost now just stalled over and over

dougguynes

A little background about Me.. 3 years ago I was 280-290. I have gonna all the way down to 200 in about 2 years following keto diet (low carb) and exercise. I have muscle mass. I am in the gym 3 times a week for the last 10 years.
Here is my problem every since I have gotten down to 200lbs I have stalled. Keep in mind this stall has been giong on for almost a year. Just up and down up and down. The only way I can lose is following an extremely low calorie diet. I followed Lyle McDonald's RFL diet which is psmf, but helps maintain the most muscle possible. I got down to 183. As soon as I got off to take a break I shot up from 183 to 190 then 195 now I am at 199. I kinda feel like I have messed up my metabolism with the years of dieting down. Or I can only lose on low carb diets like keto and psmf. Which shouldn't be because its ultimately calorie in vs calorie out.
I am 199lbs and have been for over a month following a 1600 calorie diet 40/40/20. I have a lean mass of around 160ish. But for some reason I maintain weight at 1600.... I lift weights 3 times a week and dont do cardio right now because I thought this low of calories cardio wouldn't be needed.
How is that possible for my size?I am 199lbs shouldn't the weight be falling off at 1600?!? I always eat 165 grams of protein to maintain muscle then I try to get 100-150 carbs and 25-60ish fat. I have always believed in --calories in vs calories out. That there not really a "starvation mode" people think. If calories are low enough you should lose period. But that is not the case with me....
So am I not eating enough or shouldn't go lower like 1300? I work a desk job

WBB55

You're male, right? How old are you, and what's your height?

Without knowing more, my recommendation would be to get something like a FitBit and figure out your real TDEE and then start making adjustments based on your goals.

dougguynes

Sorry i was doing that on my phone and forgot to give stats.
Male
5'11
199lbs

WBB55

I know you want to lose more weight, and this is gonna sound counterintuitive, but you need to eat more.

When you were very obese, eating below your BMR was fine because you had a lot of fat stores to get energy from. Now that you're a lot closer to a healthy weight, eating that little isn't gonna be the best idea.

I recommend eating 1800-2000 every day. For the first week or two, you might gain a pound or two, as some of your glycogen stores are refilled. BUT THAT'S OK. DON'T GIVE UP. After that first couple weeks, if you keep eating 1800-2000, you'll start losing again.

Edited for not-enough-coffee

rileamoyer

I know you want to lose more weight, and this is gonna sound counterintuitive, but you need to eat more.

When you were very obese, eating below your BMR was fine because you had a lot of fat stores to get energy from. Now that you're a lot closer to a healthy weight, eating that little isn't gonna be the best idea.

I recommend eating 1800-2000 every day. For the first week or two, you might gain a pound or two, as some of your glycogen stores are refilled. BUT THAT'S OK. DON'T GIVE UP. After that first couple weeks, if you keep eating 1800-2000, you'll start losing again.

Edited for not-enough-coffee

Sounds like the best plan so far. I agree, you just might need a few more calories. Don't give up the cardio, do it f or your heart!

SezxyStef

do you weigh your food? Log everything accurately?

typically if you are not losing weight you are eating more than you think.

sunflowerhippi

Are you eating back your workout calories?

I am a 5"7 female and I eat more then you are honestly.

You are not eating enough, take a few weeks eating more like the other poster said. It took my body about a month to adjust to eating more and drop the "pretend" weight I gained those first few weeks of eating more. I say pretend because from my reading it is mostly water weight and other none fat things so it is nothing to worry about in the long run.

dougguynes

When I was losing all the weight I was doing high intensity intervals and moderate intensity long distances cardio. I can run 2-3 miles no problem. But with my new job and 2 year old I only have time to squeeze in 3 fullbody 5x5 workouts a week.
Yes I weigh and log everything. I actually know a lot about nutrition studying over these past few years and have kind of been in the whole struggle with myself. "I'm be not eating enough vs It doesn't matter its calories in vs calories out. There is no such thing as starvation mode" Even if your metabolism does lower its only 30ish%"
You read one thing from a Nutritional Guru and the opposite from another. lol

dougguynes

Okay, so My new plan will be 2000 calories for a few weeks to see how I do.
2000 calories @40/40/20 so I aim for

200 grams of protein
200 carbs
45 grams of fat

WBB55

You read one thing from a Nutritional Guru and the opposite from another. lol

Everyone is just trying to help, keep that in mind, ok? But we are just opinionated strangers on the internet.

If you aren't obese (which you aren't anymore) and you eat greater than 1000 calories below your TDEE for an extended length of time (which you seem to be trying to do) you run the risk of bone loss, muscle loss, hormone problems, etc. Most men I know, especially the ones who lift weights, want to make sure to keep their testosterone and male hormone levels up.

This isn't to say you can't start doing selective fasting or something like that. 5:2. 18:6, etc. But once you're not obese anymore, I don't think anyone would advise you to eat so few calories if you're looking to maintain muscle and hormone balances. Just my two cents.

WBB55

Okay, so My new plan will be 2000 calories for a few weeks to see how I do.
2000 calories @40/40/20 so I aim for

200 grams of protein
200 carbs
45 grams of fat

AWESOME PLAN!

And just remember that as long as you eat less than about 2800 every day, if the scale goes up, YOU AREN'T GAINING FAT. YOU CAN'T GAIN FAT if you eat less than 2800 every day. Ok?

dougguynes

I welcome the advice. The Guru statement was just in general nothing directed toward this website. There is just so many conflicting advice from so called Guru's like lyle mcdonald vs lane norton etc..

drew06

I agree with the others, slowly increase your caloric intake by 50-100 calories a week and see what happens with your body.

Also, I would put back at least one session of HIIT a week into your weight training.

I found myself in a similar position to you, although to a very much lesser degree. I lost 20 pounds and stalled eating around 1700 calories a week and doing cardio 2 times a day. I burned out, lost energy and stopped losing weight. I slowly started incorporating more calories per week and minimized my cardio. 5-6 weight sessions, 2 HIIT, 1 low/mod intensity session and I started losing weight again.

I am 5'6 and was down to 143. I was starving all the time so I commend you for being able to keep that up.

pennyllayne

A few things to consider which you may not have previously - what's your body fat and muscle mass like? Your BMI is 27.8 but BMI doesn't take into account muscle mass. People who have a lot of muscle may be told they are overweight because of a higher BMI when this is not always the case.

Also, are you still eating low carb? Extended low cal and low carb eating negatively effects thryoid and leptin and you may find that a period of refeeding especially on carbs helps you to lose again. You'll gain water weight initially, but as long as you're eating at maintenance levels and working out that weight will come off again when you start dieting again.

going from a VLCD to eating regularly will make you gain weight very fast. If it's just a short break and you're eating at maintenance it would likely have just been water weight that you gained. How long was the break for? For someone who lost so much weight doing VLC, it's easy to gain a bunch of water weight in the short term.

You could be right about your metabolism if you have been continuously dieting for years without breaks in between. Prolonged dieting does appear to have this effect based on a few studies that have been done. In which case what I said above about refeeding may really benefit you and help get things moving again.

Another thing is that you say you have LBM of about 160 - that means you only have 20% BF so it depends what your goals are. Are you a fitness professional? If you're just looking to be within average body fat then you are within it. Average BF for men is 18-24% so you're pretty much ideal for an average guy. And remember, the less fat you have, the harder your body will fight back to preserve that fat so it's not any wonder that you're finding it difficult to lose more fat and keep it off.

Starvation mode as far as fat loss stopping altogether does not exist, otherwise people would not become anorexic. But slowing metabolism is a very real thing. Some studies show that metabolism slows by around 10%, which for you would mean you'd have to create a standard deficit plus and extra deficit of 180 cals a day (based on a BMR of 1,800) to see weight loss. Not knowing your age I can't estimate calorie expenditure but with extensive dieting you do have to take metabolic slow down into account and unfortunately you may only be expending enough to maintain your weight. But instead of going even lower and slowing things down further I really think your first step should be to try a refeed over a month at maintenance calories and up your carbs to around 300g a day. Keep protein to around 200g a day and fat to around 70g and add in some cardio as well as weight training. This is just to help get hormone levels back up and get your metabolism to increase a bit more.

Hope that helped!

sunflowerhippi

Okay, so My new plan will be 2000 calories for a few weeks to see how I do.
2000 calories @40/40/20 so I aim for

200 grams of protein
200 carbs
45 grams of fat

AWESOME PLAN!

And just remember that as long as you eat less than about 2800 every day, if the scale goes up, YOU AREN'T GAINING FAT. YOU CAN'T GAIN FAT if you eat less than 2800 every day. Ok?

This this is and this. When I upped mine I tried to avoid the scale the best I could for a few weeks.

dougguynes

I do have a good bit of muscle mass. I just want to lose 20 more lbs or just whenever i can get these love handles off. I haven't done lc in about a year. but when i was doing the Rapidfatloss diet by lyle mcdonald i was taking a 24 hr break every 5-6 days to help with leptin , thyroid and to refill my glycogen storages. I am 28.

pennyllayne

I believe there's actually limited evidence of the effect on leptin in 24 hour periods so this is why longer refeeds may be helpful. As for thyroid I believe longer than 24 hours is needed to increase. The other thing though is that low carb isn't the only thing that affects leptin and thryoid - it's low calories in general. But surplus carbs seem to have the greatest impact on improving them. So if you've been low calorie for a while a refeed will likely be the best thing to do right now. Also, even though you say you're not doing low carb, you say you try to eat 100-150g of carbs a day which is actually quite low for an active person if you've been eating at that level for a while. I don't know what foods you're eating, but even though calories do matter they are not the only thing that matter, you know? There are so many factors involved in weight loss and you gotta keep trying different things until something gets moving again. Right now, it sounds like your metabolism, leptin and thyroid all need some ramping up before they decide they're going to shift any more fat.

dougguynes

I definitely think so too. I am going to stick to 200 carbs a day and see where that gets me. I have also thought of them as a non essential nutrient for a longtime. You get your protein and fat and then the left over cals are for carbs. Here is a pretty good read if you are interested.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/how-many-carbohydrates-do-you-need.html

pennyllayne

I definitely think so too. I am going to stick to 200 carbs a day and see where that gets me. I have also thought of them as a non essential nutrient for a longtime. You get your protein and fat and then the left over cals are for carbs. Here is a pretty good read if you are interested.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/how-many-carbohydrates-do-you-need.html

They're non-essential as far as survival goes, yes, but for health they have a lot of benefits. Some people don't do well with too many carbs but with certain situations they seem to help! My recommendation about carbs for a refeed period were based on Lyle's advice so I know his work

WBB55

I have also thought of them as a non essential nutrient for a longtime.

OH GOD NO. Carbs are ESSENTIAL to TONS of functions in the body. The body CAN make most of what you need carbs for by cannibalizing other things, but it can make much of the protein it needs from cannibalizing other things, too, doesn't mean that's a good idea in the long term! Girls on the team try to go low, low carb without telling the trainers and their performance just falls apart. It's so easy to tell, if someone's performance takes a nose dive, it's either (1) broke up with SO or (2) stopped eating carbs (or has cut their overall calories too low in general)

dougguynes

lyle has a lot of good info. I definitely understand performance r/t carbs glycogen and energy to burn in take in the gym. I am one of those people that functions very well in Ketosis and when I eat carbs I get sluggish. When my body becomes fat adapted it feels like I have a raging furnace of energy haha.

pennyllayne

I have also thought of them as a non essential nutrient for a longtime.

OH GOD NO. Carbs are ESSENTIAL to TONS of functions in the body. The body CAN make most of what you need carbs for by cannibalizing other things, but it can make much of the protein it needs from cannibalizing other things, too, doesn't mean that's a good idea in the long term! Girls on the team try to go low, low carb without telling the trainers and their performance just falls apart. It's so easy to tell, if someone's performance takes a nose dive, it's either (1) broke up with SO or (2) stopped eating carbs (or has cut their overall calories too low in general)

They're not essential to life or survival. Only protein and essential fats are. But no one said that is optimal. If you're just trying to survive you're not talking about someone who is trying to achieve sports performance.

pennyllayne

He has a lot of good info.

He does! I use his articles a lot as references for my Nutrition Assignments

Iwishyouwell

do you weigh your food? Log everything accurately?

typically if you are not losing weight you are eating more than you think.

This.

Please don't listen to any of those people telling you that if you, at nearly 200lbs, aren't losing on a supposedly 1600 calorie-a-day diet then the answer is to eat even more calories.

If you're not losing on 1600, the highest likelihood is that you're just not eating 1600 calories. Before you even think about getting into any metabolic slowdown possibilities, check your food.

Are you meticulously weighing EVERYTHING that goes in your mouth, every single day, and recording the results? Or are you, like most people, guesstimating, half counting, and ignoring those "bites here and there"?

dougguynes

I look at every package and weigh everything I eat. I don't do any snacking. If its not in my diet diary I don't eat it. I cycle through the same foods everyday so I don't have to worry about other calories. That is why I have become so discouraged over the whole calories in vs calories out situation because if that was 100% true I should be losing period.

dougguynes

Figured I would give you guys an update.
3/28 I was 199 eating at 1600 calories and stalled. I increased cals to 2000 from 3/28- 4/14 I weighed 200lbs. on 4/15 i increased calories to 2400. I have been eating at 2400 and currently weigh 201-202. This is with no cardio this month just lifting. I wanted to get a true weight gain or loss without cardio involved. So my question now is--What now? I definitely wanna start losing again.

dougguynes

Thinking I am going to decrease my calories back down to 2000 calories and see if I start to lose again.

3laine75

Is it you in the pic? If so, you probably need a lot of glycogen to fuel those muscles. If your going keto, they'll get depleted and then replenish themselves (+water) when you eat 'normally'. Not sure how much scale weight that'd equate to e.g. I packed 7lb back on the first couple of weeks of a very moderate bulk. Just guess work, on my part, btw but it might explain some of the gain.

ETA: a smaller deficit might counter it if that's what it is.

dougguynes

Yep that is me in the pic. No this is my weight on a traditional diet. I usually get between 200-250 carbs a day. I just added 800 calories a day trying to reset my metabolism.