Micronutrient issues and 1200?

Beet_Girl

I've heard that eating under 1200 is unhealthy because your body doesn't get enough micronutrients. I've also heard that taking a supplement won't make up for it because micronutrients work best coming from whole foods.

But what if you eat more than 1200 calories, and then workout so that you are under 1200? From my thinking, your body has already absorbed the micronutrients from the food and will just be burning fat. Is that correct thinking or not?

SezxyStef

yes incorrect.

WBB55

Short answer: "net" at least your BMR

Beet_Girl

yes incorrect.

So how does that work, metabolism-wise? I thought the body just tapped into liver glycogen reserves and if those get used up, started getting energy from fat cells. And yes, maybe muscle too if you are low enough. I don't see how it could be taking away micronutrients as well. I would have thought those would already be in the blood stream.

Just want to understand why from a biochemistry point of view. I'm sure I'm missing something!

Aaron_K123

I have heard and am generally warming to the idea of eating between your BMR and TDEE net but that just draws my attention to the seeming fact that MFP doesn't really care about that.

When I put my info and goals into MFP it gave me a caloric daily net that is well below my BMR which I am admittedly skeptical about.

Aaron_K123

yes incorrect.

So how does that work, metabolism-wise? I thought the body just tapped into liver glycogen reserves and if those get used up, started getting energy from fat cells. And yes, maybe muscle too if you are low enough. I don't see how it could be taking away micronutrients as well. I would have thought those would already be in the blood stream.

Just want to understand why from a biochemistry point of view. I'm sure I'm missing something!

I have to say this is a point of confusion for me as well. I can understand that burning fat stores doesn't net you an micronutrients but I don't see why it would make you lose the micronutrients you already took in via foods if you eat 1800 but only net 1100 for example.

bcattoes

Most people can get enough micronutrients on 1200 if they choose wisely.

WBB55

Just want to understand why from a biochemistry point of view. I'm sure I'm missing something!

There are water and fat soluble vitamins and minerals that are necessary for proper body function. These are the micronutrients we're talking about. Iron, vitamin c, calcium, sodium, etc. The "bioavailability" of these micronutrients is highly dependent on whether there's the proper amount of lipids, amino acids, and glucose in your bloodstream and cells. If you aren't eating enough fat, for instance, you will have a harder time properly utilizing the fat soluble micronutrients in the foods you DO eat. The vitamins and minerals in supplements simply aren't as "bioavailable" as the ones in real food. Supplements are just that, supplements. They cannot make up for a diet lacking in micronutrients and enough MACROnutrients to help absorb them.

cwolfman13

I have heard and am generally warming to the idea of eating between your BMR and TDEE net but that just draws my attention to the seeming fact that MFP doesn't really care about that.

When I put my info and goals into MFP it gave me a caloric daily net that is well below my BMR which I am admittedly skeptical about.

MFP is just a calculator...it is a tool...it is not intelligent...you are still required to use your noggin.

Also OP...

There are water and fat soluble vitamins and minerals that are necessary for proper body function. These are the micronutrients we're talking about. Iron, vitamin c, calcium, sodium, etc. The "bioavailability" of these micronutrients is highly dependent on whether there's the proper amount of lipids, amino acids, and glucose in your bloodstream and cells. If you aren't eating enough fat, for instance, you will have a harder time properly utilizing the fat soluble micronutrients in the foods you DO eat. The vitamins and minerals in supplements simply aren't as "bioavailable" as the ones in real food. Supplements are just that, supplements. They cannot make up for a diet lacking in micronutrients and enough MACROnutrients to help absorb them.

this^^^

Aaron_K123

Well it seems like MFP is telling a lot of women to eat 1200 calories a day which has always struck me as dangerously low. Its a number I see over and over and over in the forums though...always 1200.

cwolfman13

Well it seems like MFP is telling a lot of women to eat 1200 calories a day which has always struck me as dangerously low. Its a number I see over and over and over in the forums though...always 1200.

It's telling them that because those women are putting in that they are sedentary (many are not) and they want to lose 2 Lbs per week regardless of whether they have 200 lbs to lose or 10 Lbs to lose. MFP isn't intelligent...it's not going to sound of a bunch of warning bells like, "hey chick...you only have 10 lbs to lose and don't have the fat stores required to sustain a 1000 calorie per day deficit"...this is where their brains would come in handy.

If those same women put in a more reasonable and realistic goal that was in line with the weight they needed to lose and the body fat they have then there wouldn't be such an issue..but people are lazy and don't want to use their brains and don't want to do research...they just want the computer to tell them what to do. Hell, most people sign up here without reading the stickies and don't even understand how this tool works and why you would eat back exercise calories.

TL/DR...MFP is not intelligent...and it would seem that a lot of people are not intelligent either...or they refuse to use their noggins, one of the two.

ETA: the weight one has to lose makes a substantial difference...someone who is lean or leaner and eating substantially below their BMR is going to start having issues far more serious and much faster than someone who is obese and has a **** ton of fat to use as fuel. This seems to be lost on a vast majority of people though.

Beet_Girl

Just want to understand why from a biochemistry point of view. I'm sure I'm missing something!

There are water and fat soluble vitamins and minerals that are necessary for proper body function. These are the micronutrients we're talking about. Iron, vitamin c, calcium, sodium, etc. The "bioavailability" of these micronutrients is highly dependent on whether there's the proper amount of lipids, amino acids, and glucose in your bloodstream and cells. If you aren't eating enough fat, for instance, you will have a harder time properly utilizing the fat soluble micronutrients in the foods you DO eat. The vitamins and minerals in supplements simply aren't as "bioavailable" as the ones in real food. Supplements are just that, supplements. They cannot make up for a diet lacking in micronutrients and enough MACROnutrients to help absorb them.

I still don't really get it. It sounds like this would be relevant for someone who is consuming only 1200 a day. But if you are consuming much more than that, and just working yourself down to 1200 later, wouldn't everything you ate have already been in your bloodstream to metabolize everything?

ETA:
Also, cwolfman13, good to know I'm just lazy and not using my brain. What is a reliable source for researching metabolic pathways before I post here next time?

TeaBea

Well it seems like MFP is telling a lot of women to eat 1200 calories a day which has always struck me as dangerously low. Its a number I see over and over and over in the forums though...always 1200.

Just because 1200 is "popular" doesn't mean it's correct. MFP "cares" about your BMR .....but when users put in wildly aggressive weekly goals MFP DEFAULTS to 1200 (for women).....this is user error...not MFP error.

OP - MFP gave you a calorie deficit BEFORE any exercise. That way people who can't/won't exercise still lose weight. So yes, you should eat calories back to fuel your workouts. Not enough fuel....think MACROnutreints...vitamin supplements won't help you here.

Beet_Girl

OP - MFP gave you a calorie deficit BEFORE any exercise. That way people who can't/won't exercise still lose weight. So yes, you should eat calories back to fuel your workouts. Not enough fuel....think MACROnutreints...vitamin supplements won't help you here.

And why would not eating back my exercise calories be a problem, if theoretically I still was getting enough micronutrients? What are the ramifications of not enough macronutrients, other than potential muscle loss? Haven't been experiencing any fatigue and have had quite steady weight loss from this, so I'm more concerned with potential deficiencies.

WBB55

I still don't really get it. It sounds like this would be relevant for someone who is consuming only 1200 a day. But if you are consuming much more than that, and just working yourself down to 1200 later, wouldn't everything from what you ate be in your bloodstream to metabolize everything?

I'm talking about in general. In general, our bodies have evolved to get the nutrients out of foods we eat. The minerals and vitamins in broccoli simply cannot be absorbed efficiently without enough complex carbs, amino acids and fat present at the same time. Luckily, broccoli HAS complex carbs and fat in it. If all you do is eat vitamin A supplements. Or if you megadose on vitamin A over and above the amount your body can absorb (because you're eating the fat and carbs at a deficit) then you're wasting your time taking the vitamin A.

When you eat at a calorie level sufficient for maintenance, you are probably in general gonna have enough glucose, lipids and amino acids available to absorb whatever you put in. But as soon as you're eating at a deficit, vitamin absorption gets harder and harder. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm just saying it's tougher.

Like, I can take all the Calcium supplements I want. If I don't HAPPEN to have magnesium at the same time available, then it doesn't get absorbed as well into my bones. If you've been eating at a deficit for too long, you're probably low on magnesium.

Take a multivitamin for sure while eating at a deficit. But try to get as much of your nutrients from food as you possibly can.

WBB55

What are the ramifications of not enough macronutrients

depends on the macro. If you don't eat enough fat, your hormones stop getting made and your nerves stop firing.

Beet_Girl

I still don't really get it. It sounds like this would be relevant for someone who is consuming only 1200 a day. But if you are consuming much more than that, and just working yourself down to 1200 later, wouldn't everything from what you ate be in your bloodstream to metabolize everything?

I'm talking about in general. In general, our bodies have evolved to get the nutrients out of foods we eat. The minerals and vitamins in broccoli simply cannot be absorbed efficiently without enough complex carbs, amino acids and fat present at the same time. Luckily, broccoli HAS complex carbs and fat in it. If all you do is eat vitamin A supplements. Or if you megadose on vitamin A over and above the amount your body can absorb (because you're eating the fat and carbs at a deficit) then you're wasting your time taking the vitamin A.

When you eat at a calorie level sufficient for maintenance, you are probably in general gonna have enough glucose, lipids and amino acids available to absorb whatever you put in. But as soon as you're eating at a deficit, vitamin absorption gets harder and harder. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm just saying it's tougher.

Like, I can take all the Calcium supplements I want. If I don't HAPPEN to have magnesium at the same time available, then it doesn't get absorbed as well into my bones. If you've been eating at a deficit for too long, you're probably low on magnesium.

Take a multivitamin for sure while eating at a deficit. But try to get as much of your nutrients from food as you possibly can.

Well, I eat at a maintenance level during the day and go to the gym at night and work down to 1200. So isn't that post absorption? I picked 1200 because I heard after that, your body will start breaking down muscle.

Beet_Girl

What are the ramifications of not enough macronutrients

depends on the macro. If you don't eat enough fat, your hormones stop getting made and your nerves stop firing.

Does this also hold true if you eat enough fat, but then burn it off later? I always thought you were burning from fat stores, so that wasn't a big deal unless you were underweight or something.

TeaBea

OP - MFP gave you a calorie deficit BEFORE any exercise. That way people who can't/won't exercise still lose weight. So yes, you should eat calories back to fuel your workouts. Not enough fuel....think MACROnutreints...vitamin supplements won't help you here.

And why would not eating back my exercise calories be a problem, if theoretically I still was getting enough micronutrients? What are the ramifications of not enough macronutrients, other than potential muscle loss? Haven't been experiencing any fatigue and have had quite steady weight loss from this, so I'm more concerned with potential deficiencies.

Other than muscle loss? Well, if lowering your body fat % is not a good thing (to you).....then I don't know what to say.

It's not just "potential" muscle loss...because many people who try very hard to not lose muscle...still lose some. You will lose more than some. The scale looks good with muscle loss (and/or fat loss) ....I care more about measurements. To each his/her own.

WBB55

Well, I eat at a maintenance level during the day and go to the gym at night and work down to 1200. So isn't that post absorption? I picked 1200 because I heard after that, your body will start breaking down muscle.

Food stays in your gut for longer than one day, depending on what it is. Also, when I say maintenance, I mean eating calories equal to your TDEE every day.

Rephrase your question one more time, so we make sure we're understanding you and answering what your asking.

Beet_Girl

Well, I eat at a maintenance level during the day and go to the gym at night and work down to 1200. So isn't that post absorption? I picked 1200 because I heard after that, your body will start breaking down muscle.

Food stays in your gut for longer than one day, depending on what it is. Also, when I say maintenance, I mean eating calories equal to your TDEE every day.

Rephrase your question one more time, so we make sure we're understanding you and answering what your asking.

Actually, most of the time food is in your gut, it's in the colon. And micronutrients mostly get absorbed in the small intestine. I'm guessing it would only take 6 or 7 hours for that part of digestion.

Wish I could edit my first post, but I can't anymore. Maybe an example will help:

I go throughout my day eating a fairly nutritious diet. Based on my logging, it looks like I'm hitting most of my goals for both micro and macro nutrients. Maintenance for me is around 1800, and I usually hit that. At night, I go to the gym for a couple hours. I usually burn 600 calories. I don't want to go under 1200 net, because I want to keep the fat burning high and muscle burning low.

I'm wondering if during that process while I am working out and burning calories, micronutrients are somehow getting metabolized as well. If that were the case, then I would not in reality be hitting my micronutrient targets, since the micronutrients I consumed earlier in the day were then "burned" off. Based off what I know about metabolic pathways, that doesn't seem like it would be the case, but I am not sure.

Beet_Girl

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