Bulking goal, hard gainer, and older.
Replies
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Protein synthesis must be triggered post workout by eating protein AND/OR Leucine: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/2/533S.full
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/51/4/928.full
Food for thought following Alan Aragon's study on milk as a perfect post workout meal: http://www.nutritionj.com/content/13/1/9
Studies show either works to trigger MTOR. Scientific though and logic suggests the two together create a larger stimulus but waiting on conclusive evidence. This right here debunks the idea that you can eat all your protein in the morning and have the same level of protein synthesis. Of course, this is pretty obvious and only the most religious IIFYM guys believe that there is zero post workout "anabolic window". the window is larger than the bro science 30 minutes though.
For guys with low daily protein (not us, so less relevant, but still interesting): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22357161
The reason we add Leucine to whey is that a typical serving of whey does not contain a possibly optimal amount of leucine to achieve the best trigger. you need 3g to 5g for that. If you are eating a steak instead, then yes, plenty of leucine in that. But its important to realize that almost all of the positive benefits of protein synthesis triggering from eating protein is actually due to eating leucine.
This is just one example. The 6 meals a day for better metabolism, etc etc, yes that is bro science. But there is very real evidence for pre, intra, and post workout supplementation...which means the statement "meal/protein timing is irrelevant" is provably false.
good stuff. This adds the missing element to the above studies with the following quote. Does having food in the system from a previous meal still allow for this leucine trigger? The study suggests 3 hours max.
"However, infusion-based studies in rats [78,79] and humans [80,81] indicate that the postprandial rise in MPS from ingesting amino acids or a protein-rich meal is more transient, returning to baseline within 3 hours despite sustained elevations in amino acid availability."
These are pretty large windows but they definitely do lead to the conclusion that someone eating IF with a workout NOT in the eating period, or eating 1 large meal in the morning or evening is NOT going to achieve maximal protein synthesis unless they are eating BCAAs every few hours.0 -
A better study with great comparison groups showing Pro+Leucine+carbs>carbs +pro>carbs
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/288/4/E645
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Protein synthesis must be triggered post workout by eating protein AND/OR Leucine: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/2/533S.full
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/51/4/928.full
Food for thought following Alan Aragon's study on milk as a perfect post workout meal: http://www.nutritionj.com/content/13/1/9
Studies show either works to trigger MTOR. Scientific though and logic suggests the two together create a larger stimulus but waiting on conclusive evidence. This right here debunks the idea that you can eat all your protein in the morning and have the same level of protein synthesis. Of course, this is pretty obvious and only the most religious IIFYM guys believe that there is zero post workout "anabolic window". the window is larger than the bro science 30 minutes though.
For guys with low daily protein (not us, so less relevant, but still interesting): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22357161
The reason we add Leucine to whey is that a typical serving of whey does not contain a possibly optimal amount of leucine to achieve the best trigger. you need 3g to 5g for that. If you are eating a steak instead, then yes, plenty of leucine in that. But its important to realize that almost all of the positive benefits of protein synthesis triggering from eating protein is actually due to eating leucine.
This is just one example. The 6 meals a day for better metabolism, etc etc, yes that is bro science. But there is very real evidence for pre, intra, and post workout supplementation...which means the statement "meal/protein timing is irrelevant" is provably false.
good stuff. This adds the missing element to the above studies with the following quote. Does having food in the system from a previous meal still allow for this leucine trigger? The study suggests 3 hours max.
"However, infusion-based studies in rats [78,79] and humans [80,81] indicate that the postprandial rise in MPS from ingesting amino acids or a protein-rich meal is more transient, returning to baseline within 3 hours despite sustained elevations in amino acid availability."
These are pretty large windows but they definitely do lead to the conclusion that someone eating IF with a workout NOT in the eating period, or eating 1 large meal in the morning or evening is NOT going to achieve maximal protein synthesis unless they are eating BCAAs every few hours.
That's what I was saying man. I'm not saying the post workout window doesn't exist... I'm just saying it's it expands beyond that immediate 30 minute window.
Personally, I follow IF but my training fall's within the fed period anyway.0 -
Here is a good read regarding protein and what can the body absorb at one time
http://www.simplyshredded.com/does-excess-protein-get-stored-as-fat.html0 -
That's what I was saying man. I'm not saying the post workout window doesn't exist... I'm just saying it's it expands beyond that immediate 30 minute window.
Personally, I follow IF but my training fall's within the fed period anyway.
My training is at the end of my fast....then I get to eat. :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile:0 -
My view regarding timing is that while there is "timing" to getting nutrients.
The people who will benefit the most from those timing windows are going to be your elite athletes or people getting ready to take the stage for a competition.
But for most regular joes out there, hitting your caloric and macro goals is far more important....0 -
My view regarding timing is that while there is "timing" to getting nutrients.
The people who will benefit the most from those timing windows are going to be your elite athletes or people getting ready to take the stage for a competition.
But for most regular joes out there, hitting your caloric and macro goals is far more important....
Agreed.0 -
- I've been told I can't process more than 25-30 grams at any one time.
- I've been told 30-60 mins post workout to consume fast absorbing protein with high contents of added aminos. 25g. So I use Iso
-Whey with lots of extras.
- During the day a mixed protein with iso-whey, standard whey, etc. 25g.
- Bulking protein in the morning. 50g, loaded with aminos, mixed wheys, and about 700 calories.
- Bedtime. 25g of Caseine. Slow absorbing digesting while you sleep. Aids in catabolism and feeds your body.
Lets just break this down into 1 simple sentence. You don't need to do any of that. Seems like you have been bro scienced up badly. To break it down easy: JUST MAKE SURE IT FITS IN YOUR MACROS. It doesn't matter when the heck you have your protein. You can have 50g in the morning, 100g at night. Doesn't matter as long as you hit your daily protein macros. Amino's acids as well are a waste. YOU DONT NEED CASEINE. Slow digesting protein bs, it doesn't matter.
This. Just get the cheapest protein you can find, eat it, and you'll be fine.
There is SOME science behind a lot of your bro science, but not enough to justify paying any attention to it. Accomplishing what you want to accomplish isn't hard: Eat plenty of food, eat plenty of protein, lift stuff. Anything else you've read in Men's Fitness is BS designed to sell you Caseine, "bulking protein," and other useless stuff that generally costs more than real food.
Once you're approaching the absolute pinnacle of your physical potential, you can start caring about when to eat and which types of protein to use.0 -
First, let me say thanks for the feedback. I was not intending to set off some religious war or anything. I've read plenty of Bodybuilding.com and other sites. Plenty of mens health mags and so on. I took from all that reading some basic ideas I thought were on the right track. That is how I have been doing it. I did get cleaner build and can maintain about 160lbs. I wanted to do more and was hoping for some ideas. You folks have given me some. For that thanks. To answer some questions and comments.
- Ok, I'll ditch the Caseine. I have 1 tub, only tub I ever bought. Thought it might be useful.
- I have some Dymatize Fusion 7, which is a mixed protein and not expensive.
- I have BSN Mass gainer I take in the morning to get 700 calories right away. I'm going to add milk to bump it.
- I have GNC AMP I take after workout.
- All those have the usual stacks built in, leucine included.
- I have been supplementing Creatine recently, before and after workout.
- Yes I have a hard time hitting numbers because I don't feel that hungry. So supplementing with protein shakes helps and I can afford it. Already budgeted for.
- I also eat meats, ie, steak, fish, chicken, and so on. I grill them with basic spices. So no fried stuff.
- Yes I admit it. I fell for the 6 meals/day plan. I don't like the full/bloated feeling of 1-2 meals/day. 3-4 i'm fine with.
- Yes I have had my blood tests done. Every 3 months. I am on a TRT system. I had all the usual signs and my T level was really really low. So my levels are now excellent AND it works!!! Improves in many ways.
- Had lower back problem. L5-S1 is worn. Did PT for several months. Was doing better. Had a microdiscectomy done to help alleviate nerve pressure and pain. 8 weeks later going back to doc for visit. I got hit by a tractor trailer, hard, in my Vette. Vette vs 18 wheeler. Don't try this please, it ain't a happy ending... L5-S1 is now gone. Got fused, have handful of Titanium there. Spent a year recovering in PT. Then started on P90, P90X and all that fun stuff. Fell in love with working out. I can lift it. My back gets really pissed. I do leg work, squats, lunges, thrusts, calf raises, with 25lb dumbell in each hand. Weights over my head are painful beyond 50lbs.
So I have some limitations. It's a project to see if I can get to 175lbs and clean. I hit 180+ once while recovering. You can guess where that weight went. I used P90X to kill that crap and got down to 150. I can hold 160lbs just fine. So more calories, hit your macros, more time lifting than cardio. Got that and will try not to get so hung up on the science and just lift more, progressively. :-) I'm trying Beast next month after I finish P90X3. That is all weights, drop sets, strip sets, etc... Should be fun.
I have an appointment with a Nutritionist on Friday.
Do your best, forget the rest.... lol...0 -
First, let me say thanks for the feedback. I was not intending to set off some religious war or anything. I've read plenty of Bodybuilding.com and other sites. Plenty of mens health mags and so on. I took from all that reading some basic ideas I thought were on the right track. That is how I have been doing it. I did get cleaner build and can maintain about 160lbs. I wanted to do more and was hoping for some ideas. You folks have given me some. For that thanks. To answer some questions and comments.
- Ok, I'll ditch the Caseine. I have 1 tub, only tub I ever bought. Thought it might be useful.
I don't think you need to ditch it if you already bought it. Couldn't hurt since its handy, that's your call.- I have been supplementing Creatine recently, before and after workout.
I don't think you need to take so much, especially for your bodyweight. One big spoonful a day should be plenty. Personally I followed the regimen of taking it in the mornings on days when I didn't work out, and after a workout on days when I did. 5g each day regardless. I did that when I was over 245lbs (227 now) and I saw noticeable results after a week.- Yes I have a hard time hitting numbers because I don't feel that hungry. So supplementing with protein shakes helps and I can afford it. Already budgeted for.
I'd say if you're not hungry don't eat and don't worry about it. That sounds to me like your body is saying to stop and only put in what you are comfortable with. Food is fuel, so you should eat when you're hungry and seriously don't worry about it if you just aren't. Scale back your macro targets, be more realistic.- Yes I admit it. I fell for the 6 meals/day plan. I don't like the full/bloated feeling of 1-2 meals/day. 3-4 i'm fine with.
I don't think there's anything to fall for with 6 meals a day, its fine. IF with 2 meals a day can also be fine. I think these things are personal preferences and finding out what your body responds to. I have done both, you can get results with either. Is one better than the other or more efficient somehow? Maybe, that's something you have to play with and see what is optimal for you.
Again this is just my experience, but what I've learned is you have to tailor things to yourself and discover what works best for you. There are few actual 100% correct ways of doing things, usually there are several acceptable ways to do things and one may be better for you than another. But that can and is often different than the next guy. Don't look for absolutes, be flexible and experiment.
Anyone who goes looking for "the one true way" of achieving your goals is in for some disappointment. There are always several legitimate paths. That's why you can't sweat these details, odds are you're going to take everything you're planning now and throw it out in 6 months anyway.0 -
First, let me say thanks for the feedback. I was not intending to set off some religious war or anything. I've read plenty of Bodybuilding.com and other sites. Plenty of mens health mags and so on. I took from all that reading some basic ideas I thought were on the right track. That is how I have been doing it. I did get cleaner build and can maintain about 160lbs. I wanted to do more and was hoping for some ideas. You folks have given me some. For that thanks. To answer some questions and comments.
- Ok, I'll ditch the Caseine. I have 1 tub, only tub I ever bought. Thought it might be useful.
- I have some Dymatize Fusion 7, which is a mixed protein and not expensive.
- I have BSN Mass gainer I take in the morning to get 700 calories right away. I'm going to add milk to bump it.
- I have GNC AMP I take after workout.
- All those have the usual stacks built in, leucine included.
- I have been supplementing Creatine recently, before and after workout.
- Yes I have a hard time hitting numbers because I don't feel that hungry. So supplementing with protein shakes helps and I can afford it. Already budgeted for.
- I also eat meats, ie, steak, fish, chicken, and so on. I grill them with basic spices. So no fried stuff.
- Yes I admit it. I fell for the 6 meals/day plan. I don't like the full/bloated feeling of 1-2 meals/day. 3-4 i'm fine with.
- Yes I have had my blood tests done. Every 3 months. I am on a TRT system. I had all the usual signs and my T level was really really low. So my levels are now excellent AND it works!!! Improves in many ways.
- Had lower back problem. L5-S1 is worn. Did PT for several months. Was doing better. Had a microdiscectomy done to help alleviate nerve pressure and pain. 8 weeks later going back to doc for visit. I got hit by a tractor trailer, hard, in my Vette. Vette vs 18 wheeler. Don't try this please, it ain't a happy ending... L5-S1 is now gone. Got fused, have handful of Titanium there. Spent a year recovering in PT. Then started on P90, P90X and all that fun stuff. Fell in love with working out. I can lift it. My back gets really pissed. I do leg work, squats, lunges, thrusts, calf raises, with 25lb dumbell in each hand. Weights over my head are painful beyond 50lbs.
So I have some limitations. It's a project to see if I can get to 175lbs and clean. I hit 180+ once while recovering. You can guess where that weight went. I used P90X to kill that crap and got down to 150. I can hold 160lbs just fine. So more calories, hit your macros, more time lifting than cardio. Got that and will try not to get so hung up on the science and just lift more, progressively. :-) I'm trying Beast next month after I finish P90X3. That is all weights, drop sets, strip sets, etc... Should be fun.
I have an appointment with a Nutritionist on Friday.
Do your best, forget the rest.... lol...
You don't have to ditch the supps you bought....
A lot of people will take Casein protein in the evening.....
But you should use supps in conjunction with a good well rounded diet.
And if your goal is to put on weight you have to eat.....I fall into the same category as you, sometimes I don't feel like eating....
Thus the reason I am sitting at ~173 right now.....
Like the other gentleman mentioned.....1 serving of creatine should be fine.
I do mine post workout.0 -
First, let me say thanks for the feedback. I was not intending to set off some religious war or anything. I've read plenty of Bodybuilding.com and other sites. Plenty of mens health mags and so on. I took from all that reading some basic ideas I thought were on the right track. That is how I have been doing it. I did get cleaner build and can maintain about 160lbs. I wanted to do more and was hoping for some ideas. You folks have given me some. For that thanks. To answer some questions and comments.
- Ok, I'll ditch the Caseine. I have 1 tub, only tub I ever bought. Thought it might be useful.
I don't think you need to ditch it if you already bought it. Couldn't hurt since its handy, that's your call.- I have been supplementing Creatine recently, before and after workout.
I don't think you need to take so much, especially for your bodyweight. One big spoonful a day should be plenty. Personally I followed the regimen of taking it in the mornings on days when I didn't work out, and after a workout on days when I did. 5g each day regardless. I did that when I was over 245lbs (227 now) and I saw noticeable results after a week.- Yes I have a hard time hitting numbers because I don't feel that hungry. So supplementing with protein shakes helps and I can afford it. Already budgeted for.
I'd say if you're not hungry don't eat and don't worry about it. That sounds to me like your body is saying to stop and only put in what you are comfortable with. Food is fuel, so you should eat when you're hungry and seriously don't worry about it if you just aren't. Scale back your macro targets, be more realistic.- Yes I admit it. I fell for the 6 meals/day plan. I don't like the full/bloated feeling of 1-2 meals/day. 3-4 i'm fine with.
I don't think there's anything to fall for with 6 meals a day, its fine. IF with 2 meals a day can also be fine. I think these things are personal preferences and finding out what your body responds to. I have done both, you can get results with either. Is one better than the other or more efficient somehow? Maybe, that's something you have to play with and see what is optimal for you.
Again this is just my experience, but what I've learned is you have to tailor things to yourself and discover what works best for you. There are few actual 100% correct ways of doing things, usually there are several acceptable ways to do things and one may be better for you than another. But that can and is often different than the next guy. Don't look for absolutes, be flexible and experiment.
Anyone who goes looking for "the one true way" of achieving your goals is in for some disappointment. There are always several legitimate paths. That's why you can't sweat these details, odds are you're going to take everything you're planning now and throw it out in 6 months anyway.
^ I have to agree with this. The one thing i truly enjoy about discussions like this is that it forces to me to go the reasoning behind what I'm doing. That said, there are a few areas that while not absolutes provide some very good guidance. Outside of those, there is plenty of flexibility. If you're interested in learning more, I would highly recommend following Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, and Layne Norton. They will give you a good idea of where nutritional and exercise science is, and where the grey areas remain.0 -
Other than htting calorie and macro goals, the most important thing here is progressive resistance. It sounds like you are working well around your limitations, but I wouldn't bulk if you can't consistently add weight to the bar without injuring yourself.0
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I started reading the articles by Alan Aragon. Found the simplyshredded website and will poke around there. I've read so muc misleading stuff on bodybuilding dot com that it gets confusing. Found a couple pf authors in there who make sense and have good FAQs that help. That's where I got a lot of ideas from. Aragon is one of the few who is published with a real case study. Much of the rest of the stories, additives, ideas, all end with "may" help. So I picked a chunk of what seems to be common beliefs and started there. I'm all for being more flexible and adapting. Each of us is different.
I called my back surgeon and left him a message since it has been 5 years since the surgery, about 4 from fusion. The hardware, Titanium rods, screws, are left in from the fusion and cause me some pain with bigger weights. They won't take them out. They also aggravate some muscles in my back that cross that area. I am fully fused so that section is solid. So I can try more weight, but on a bench, at an angle. He insisted being super careful about squats and maybe looking at alternatives, like leg press. So...
I have access to a full feature gym. The surgeon says substitute leg press for squats. He'd rather I push the weight, be seated, and at an angle so I don't load the spine straight down onto the hardware in it. Make sense guys? So to work around my issue but up the weights more and do progression. Leg press for Squats? What do I replace the other big ones with? Like deadlift and so on? I can buy a bench for at home and do over my head if i'm seated and angled, like 33 degrees or more. So standard bench press would be ok. Doesn't touch my back per say. Some safe substitutes that allow me to gain safely.
I have Body Beast, a bar (the zig zag one), dumbells, about 100lbs of discs, and I can buy a decent bench. So I could start at home.
Ideas folks?0 -
So your telling me buying casein is cheaper than eating whole foods? Where the heck do you buy your food then lol? When I said I only recommend protein, I ment not to waste his money on casein. It's just an expensive protein, I use regular protein powder myself, but I only take it if I'm having trouble hitting my protein macros for the day. I don't consume 4-5x scoops of it daily.
Not sure if this is what you're looking for but,
1 300g tub of cottage cheese (with 28g protein) costs me £1.40. A 55 serving tub of ON 100% casein cost me £28 (24g protein or 34g when mixed with semi-skimmed(which I do)). I'm not doing the math but it sure looks cheaper to me.
I eat both btw.0 -
Tag, so I can show hubby this thread. Lots of great discussion on here0
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I started reading the articles by Alan Aragon. Found the simplyshredded website and will poke around there. I've read so muc misleading stuff on bodybuilding dot com that it gets confusing. Found a couple pf authors in there who make sense and have good FAQs that help. That's where I got a lot of ideas from. Aragon is one of the few who is published with a real case study. Much of the rest of the stories, additives, ideas, all end with "may" help. So I picked a chunk of what seems to be common beliefs and started there. I'm all for being more flexible and adapting. Each of us is different.
I called my back surgeon and left him a message since it has been 5 years since the surgery, about 4 from fusion. The hardware, Titanium rods, screws, are left in from the fusion and cause me some pain with bigger weights. They won't take them out. They also aggravate some muscles in my back that cross that area. I am fully fused so that section is solid. So I can try more weight, but on a bench, at an angle. He insisted being super careful about squats and maybe looking at alternatives, like leg press. So...
I have access to a full feature gym. The surgeon says substitute leg press for squats. He'd rather I push the weight, be seated, and at an angle so I don't load the spine straight down onto the hardware in it. Make sense guys? So to work around my issue but up the weights more and do progression. Leg press for Squats? What do I replace the other big ones with? Like deadlift and so on? I can buy a bench for at home and do over my head if i'm seated and angled, like 33 degrees or more. So standard bench press would be ok. Doesn't touch my back per say. Some safe substitutes that allow me to gain safely.
I have Body Beast, a bar (the zig zag one), dumbells, about 100lbs of discs, and I can buy a decent bench. So I could start at home.
Ideas folks?
You may want to go read one of the major lifting program books that are out, such as Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe and build around it. Yes, if you can't do squats then you can replace them with the leg press. Yes, squats are better for your posterior chain but it's a compromise. Deadlifts are more difficult to "replace," but talk to your doctor a bit more about what you can do, perhaps you can do barbell good mornings so you at least hit your lower back a little? Definitely talk to your doctor though. Deadlifting is a great exercise, for pure strength, but you can improve your build without them.0 -
You are definitely overthinking this with your talk about specific types of protein, protein timing, protein to the gram, pre-workouts, etc. You are not a strength athlete or an IFBB pro. This obsessing over details is not productive. From the sound of it, you have not built up a reasonable strength base with consistent strength training. I would focus on that first, because it actually will matter.0
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You may want to go read one of the major lifting program books that are out, such as Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe and build around it. Yes, if you can't do squats then you can replace them with the leg press. Yes, squats are better for your posterior chain but it's a compromise. Deadlifts are more difficult to "replace," but talk to your doctor a bit more about what you can do, perhaps you can do barbell good mornings so you at least hit your lower back a little? Definitely talk to your doctor though. Deadlifting is a great exercise, for pure strength, but you can improve your build without them.
Thanks. I ordered that book before taking off on vacation. It'll be at the house when I return. I'll go through that. Work has a nice gym with lots of equipment. I'm getting a coach to help me work through the right ones and around my limitations.0 -
You are definitely overthinking this with your talk about specific types of protein, protein timing, protein to the gram, pre-workouts, etc. You are not a strength athlete or an IFBB pro. This obsessing over details is not productive. From the sound of it, you have not built up a reasonable strength base with consistent strength training. I would focus on that first, because it actually will matter.
Depends on how you define strength. You mean lifting big weights. Then correct I don't. However I would argue I do strength training. P90X1, X2, X3 has a lot of strength training in it. Strength, core, balance, but no big weights. I'm doing lots of pull up and push work with all the different types of them.
I'm toning down some of my thinking about proteins and focusing on hitting my macros using MFP to help. Saw nutritionist right before leaving for vacation. She wants me to balance protein with shakes and real foods. She has her own opinion of the matrix to use too. So we'll see how that goes. The cool thing is my GF and I can both use the same plan but I double my portion size. So sharing meals is not a big problem.0 -
I love when OPs instantly contradict themselves.
First line of the post is how he believes you can only digest 25g of protein in a sitting because that's what someone told him. Then goes on to state how he takes 50g of protein in one sitting, because that's what someone told him.
Ok. Makes perfect sense. So you can only digest 25g of protein at a time, except for when you consume 50g at one time?
Where's the critical thinking?
Alan Aragon said it best with his first rule of Nutrient Timing: Hitting your daily macronutrients goals is far more important than nutrient timing.0 -
Most if not all what you mentioned is BS.
Hit your macros focusing on protein>fat>carbs.
Heavy lifting will get you there the fastest, although there are techniques that will gain muscles with lighter weights if you adhere to them.
Make sure you get enough rest.
If you have any questions, PM me.
Good luck.0 -
I have access to a full feature gym. The surgeon says substitute leg press for squats. He'd rather I push the weight, be seated, and at an angle so I don't load the spine straight down onto the hardware in it. Make sense guys? So to work around my issue but up the weights more and do progression. Leg press for Squats? What do I replace the other big ones with? Like deadlift and so on? I can buy a bench for at home and do over my head if i'm seated and angled, like 33 degrees or more. So standard bench press would be ok. Doesn't touch my back per say. Some safe substitutes that allow me to gain safely.
I have Body Beast, a bar (the zig zag one), dumbells, about 100lbs of discs, and I can buy a decent bench. So I could start at home.
Ideas folks?
I'm could very well be confusing this, but I thought I had heard several times that a leg press machine puts a lot of pressure on your lower back. On the surface it seems to make sense over a barbell squat since you aren't loading the top of the spine but I think that your lower back still has some potential for injury so you might want to look into that.
Honestly, the routine in Body Beast probably wouldn't be too bad given your situation. I've never done those videos, but according to google it looks like a lot of goblet squats, lunges, bulgarian split squats, and RDLs with dumbells for the legs. Sure, it isn't optimal but should be pretty effective and the absolute last thing you want is to go and injure your back.
Good luck!0 -
I love when OPs instantly contradict themselves.
First line of the post is how he believes you can only digest 25g of protein in a sitting because that's what someone told him. Then goes on to state how he takes 50g of protein in one sitting, because that's what someone told him.
I never stated anything of the sort. I've stuck to 25g at a time consistently. Trying actually reading instead of just looking for ways to take cheap shots at people.0
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