1st Post: Yet another 'why am I not losing' post!

protmb

I usually blame myself for weight loss inadequacies. So I am not comfortable asking for help, but with my experience age, and level of obesity I feel this is my last stop before a doctor's trip.

To make this legible, please let me give you some detail so you know where I've been, and where I am.

+Right Now:+
Age: 44
Male
6'1"
Starting Weight 305 lbs

+Where I've come from:+
Heavy all my life. Usually active as a kid, young adult. Lots of sports. Never 'slim', but not always... obese. I have ALWAYS lifted weights since age 13 on and off throughout the years.

+Diet history:+
Everything. The ONLY successful diet I've bee on to date is Atkins. I know many people hate it. I did it hardcore when I saw my brother have positive results just from starting it. Every other diet I stuck to 100% (I never have a problem sticking to a diet.) but had no or very limited success.

Atkins: 10 Months, strict carb counting. I started at 360 lbs+ (I don't know how much higher because my digital scale only works at 360lbs and lower). I lost a total of 90 lbs.

During this time I lifted weights on and off. And the first plateau happened and I started jogging...well walking at first (Knees and cardio were an issue at first) Built up to 3-4 times per week 27 minute jogs.

Plateaued at 8 months. (metabolism leveled?) and nothing short of starvation was working. I weened myself off of Atkins while maintaining all exercise and I gained 45 lbs back!

Weight Watcher's. Not going to comment on this.

Belly Fat Diet: Lost 30 lbs, gained 20 of it back.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+Currently:+
I have a very sedentary job and try to walk. I have picked up Weight Lifting with a vengeance. I could not do Atkins again.... just can't. (don't like the side effects, and almost crazy response to carb introduction).

I got into MyFitnessPal several months ago, but am 5 weeks into what I consider -serious- calorie reduction.

I am at 1900 Calories a day. My carbs still run lower than recommended, but I have a little more fats than recommended (left over from Atkins days I suppose). Fruit still scares me because of easy sugar conversion however, I eat a piece a day.

My calorie counting is very strong but it is not ALL documented because my diet is extremely similar every day.

Protein: because I'm am attempting serious muscle gain this time, I am supplementing Whey Isolate protein (still counting the calories in this at approx 115 cals per scoop. 1 scoop a day)

Exercise:
As mentioned intense weight lifting: 50-60 mins, 6 Days a week. Push/pull splits with high intensity days mixed with higher volume days.

Each Weight Lift session is followed by 20 minutes of 'fat burn' program time spent on treadmill peaking at 3.3 miles per hour on a 6 degree incline. This is done 7 days a week (even on weight lifting rest day)

Supplements:
As mentioned Protein (avg 1 scoop (26 g protein, 115 cals, 0.5 carbs))

Water: Lots. I have water, including decaf tea right up til bed (often to my detriment, if you know what I mean!) This has been unusual for me as I've never been a big water drinker.

Results:
Start weigth: 305
Week 1: 309
Week 2: 304
Week 3: 305
Week 4: 304.5
Week 5: 304.5

Net Difference: -0.5 lbs @ 5 weeks

I tried to keep this as factual as possible to keep it readable. But deep inside I'm kind of losing it. I've never, in my life, worked this hard on a daily basis on physical activity alone. It is consuming a large part of my day now.

Those 60 minute workout sessions are hard, gruelling. I went through a spell where I had no energy. I increased caffeine for a few days. I seem better with the constant work outs.

The 20 minutes cardio after are much harder than when I do them alone (obviously I'm not pre-exhausted).

I have researched this topic a lot on this forum, youtube 'experts' and I came across a LOT of conflicting 'scientific studies'. I told myself I give myself 10 more days at this pace and then it's time to see a doctor.

So my research.... lead me to lots of conflicting info:
I started to worry about whey (isolate) protein: Can it be converted to fat if I take too much (I don't mean the caloric content I mean the unused protein (energy). I found a lot of sceintific conflict on this.)

Also about 10 days ago out of frustration I started taking a diet supplement by the makers of the protein I take. I take 3 of these pills a day which amounts to green tea extract, caffeines, and Yohimbine extract (?), and whatever else is supposed to allegedly make a difference in my metabolism during the day. So far, no results but I'm trying to be patient.

Also I read about insulin insensitivity? I hope I don't have this...

Am I being unreasonable? Am I expecting too much of a 44 year old, 305 pound dude? I -feel- like my results are impossible. I know that's a strong statement but I'm the same weight I was while being TOTALLY sedentary !!! Even my evenings were fairly (not entirely) low key for the last 3 months....

I was really hoping I wouldn't have to do Atkins again because it feels impossible to maintain for life. Nonetheless it has had the most results for me, and then Bellyfat is second (which is a variant of atkins) but I wanted to think that if I did the 1900 calorie a day thing, with tons of extra exercise, this would work.

So again, am I being unreasonable? I figured with so much body fat, it would start falling off (at least as quick as it did with Atkins).

I apologize for the length of this post but did not want to leave too much out. Right now my plan is to be very strict still, and continue my 7 day workout plan, basically status quo for 10 more days and if the difference is under 1.5 lbs then I was going to make a doctor's appointment but I am reluctant to do this and just be told, 'yea you're fat. Eat less food, exercise more, calories out have to be > calories in.'

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

Branstin

This will answer a lot or all of your questions:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1080242-a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants?page=1#posts-16625920

Nice2BFitAgain

Are you weighing solids and measuring liquids? every little thing?

If you open your food diary people will be able to help you better.

easjer

Do you have any sense of TDEE? I wonder if you are eating enough. My BMR as a 34 year old woman who weighs 307 at 5'9" is above what you are eating (~2100), and my TDEE with less activity (say 3-4 hours of moderate workout per week) puts my TDEE around 3500.

Are you taking measurements and noting differences anywhere else (I do measurements every other week)?

While you generally cannot increase muscle while on a caloric deficit, you are in the ONE situation in which that is possible - starting intense weights while increasing protein and at a beginner level with lots of fat stores.

At this point, I can only tell you what happened to me when I started working out in February. I did a whole30 in January, dropped below BMR for a couple of weeks, started regular workouts after hurting my knee and joined MFP. February was a hot mess for me, weight-loss-wise. I got down to 313, jumped back up to 320, and was all over in between. Talk about frustration! But I stuck to my calorie level - which for me is based on Fitbit's totals - 1000 calories - my body began to adjust to the workouts, so I wasn't retaining water for muscle repair so much and then I started dropping steadily.

It can take some time for your body to adjust, and you will retain water. I do NOT think it's necessary for you to return to Atkins. But you do have to find the sweet spot for eating that is enough to keep your metabolism chugging along and to maintain a deficit. That can take weeks of trial and error. It's HARD to get used to that, especially when you are working out so hard and putting in so much effort, but patience is unfortunately a big piece of weight loss when you have as much to lose as we do.

editorgrrl

This will answer a lot or all of your questions:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1080242-a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants

^^^This.

You lose weight by eating at a deficit. Period. And you admit that your logging is sloppy. Log everything you eat & drink accurately & honestly. Weigh your food.

Logging works.

protmb

Wow, Thank you for quick responses.

I have lurked for a long time on the forum, and new the 'open' your calc post would come but to be honest it looks bad because I only enter a new meal if it is different from a meal the day before. So I can assure you I stay under 1900, sometimes by a hair, but I don't even eat my 'work out calories' to try as hard as possible to retain a deficit without starving.

I don't have a digital scale but what I do is measure everything. Then I get out my calc. If ANYTHING is uncertain I compare it to the excellent database that Fitnesspal provides (What a great tool!)

If something doesn't fall in those two categories, I don't eat it. Like I say though, my menu is VERY boring.

IE: I have had two strips of bacon, 1.3 cup of steel cut oats for breakfast every day for 2 months.
My lunch is the same chicken breast wrap with the same wrap, 2 tablespoons of ranch for the last 2 months....

My only deviation is supper. It might be lean pork, chicken, steak, lean hamburger. All measured and calculated. I am used to doing this from Atkins.

What is NEW to me is counting macros closer. It appears (as started in my post) I eat more fats, and far less Carbs than recommended by my fitnesspal. BUT I confess, carbs scare the crap out of me so you'll never see me eating bread, too much fruit, etc, etc.

Do you have any sense of TDEE? I wonder if you are eating enough. My BMR as a 34 year old woman who weighs 307 at 5'9" is above what you are eating (~2100), and my TDEE with less activity (say 3-4 hours of moderate workout per week) puts my TDEE around 3500.

Are you taking measurements and noting differences anywhere else (I do measurements every other week)?

While you generally cannot increase muscle while on a caloric deficit, you are in the ONE situation in which that is possible - starting intense weights while increasing protein and at a beginner level with lots of fat stores.


It can take some time for your body to adjust, and you will retain water. I do NOT think it's necessary for you to return to Atkins. But you do have to find the sweet spot for eating that is enough to keep your metabolism chugging along and to maintain a deficit. That can take weeks of trial and error. It's HARD to get used to that, especially when you are working out so hard and putting in so much effort, but patience is unfortunately a big piece of weight loss when you have as much to lose as we do.

Thank you for this. I appreciate your experience.

I have to admit this is the first time I have calculated TDEE: Mine is 3816. My BMR is... 2330. I have stuck with Fitnesspal's suggestion of staying under 1910.

I have only broken this when I know I am still under my exercise calories and that's happened maybe... 2 times?

I see where you are going with this TDEE but I am very, very reluctant to increase my calories/carbs.

On measurements... yes I took them. I had a shocking increase in bicep size (muscle memory ? If you believe in such a thing?) All other areas were very similar. BUT I am due to take them and record this Saturday.

mamasmaltz3

I would suggest going to the dr for a physical if you have not been for a while. It would be beneficial to know your numbers and if you have any underlying health issues. It also sounds like you have always been a big guy. Nothing wrong with that. If I were talking to someone just starting out I would say log your food for a few weeks without restricting what you eat. Eat what you want when you want it and monitor your weight. Is is staying the same, gaining or losing? If it's staying the same you have found your TDEE to support your current weight. If it's going up you are eating over your TDEE, going down you are eating under it. Once you find your TDEE take a small cut from it. Maybe 15%? Changing from an attitude of dieting and weight loss to an attitude of health and fitness has been huge for me. It's no longer about being the smallest that I can be it's about being healthy. I make choices that promote health and love for myself. You are active and increasing in fitness even if you have not lost much weight. Celebrate that you can do things now that you couldn't do before.

karmasays

I don't have a digital scale but what I do is measure everything. Then I get out my calc. If ANYTHING is uncertain I compare it to the excellent database that Fitnesspal provides (What a great tool!)

Get a digital scale and start weighing your food. There is quite a difference between weight and volume of solid food.

They're pretty cheap too! I got mine on sale for $15.

Nice2BFitAgain

You really need that digital scale to know how much that food weighs. They are cheap money, like $20.

Each slice of bacon is a different weight, they may look similar but they never are. I measured out 1/2 cup of steel cut oats the other day and then I weighed them and they weighed more than the serving should (I had always just measured with my measuring cup before). I think you are going over your 1900 cals.

easjer

Thank you for this. I appreciate your experience.

I have to admit this is the first time I have calculated TDEE: Mine is 3816. My BMR is... 2330. I have stuck with Fitnesspal's suggestion of staying under 1910.

I have only broken this when I know I am still under my exercise calories and that's happened maybe... 2 times?

I see where you are going with this TDEE but I am very, very reluctant to increase my calories/carbs.

On measurements... yes I took them. I had a shocking increase in bicep size (muscle memory ? If you believe in such a thing?) All other areas were very similar. BUT I am due to take them and record this Saturday.

I was really uncertain about BMR/TDEE. But MFP rates you under BMR if you put in the right settings, and eating significantly under your BMR will damage your metabolism and cause it to slow way, way down. The way MFP works (if you opt not to go the TDEE or BMR route) is that you SHOULD be eating your exercise calories back. You NEED that fuel for your body to work efficiently and to keep your metabolism up.

Weird concept when you've been hearing for so long that you need to restrict, restrict, restrict. There isn't any reason to go under a 1,000 calorie deficit. You're far more likely to screw up your metabolism than to lose more. Calories in/calories out - to a degree.

I was very hesitant about TDEE too, until I got my fitbit (which I don't recommend because you are doing strength-training, which fitbit doesn't measure well) and those averages confirmed the online calculator averages. Now, I am currently in a situation where my TDEE is way lower than normal because I no longer get to walk at work (I normally have 2 full time staff members and currently have 0, so I never leave my desk at this point). I have adjusted my intake to account for the lowered activity, and I adjust daily to fitbit, rather than TDEE, but it has worked really well for me. REALLY well.

Keep in mind that BMR is what keeps your body functioning without a drop of activity - that is what you need to take in for your organs to work. You need more if you are expending more energy than just laying in bed. MFP does not always account for BMR, if your setting are off. MFP has me set to 400 calories below BMR (sounds the same for you). Now, a few days here or there, no big deal. Consistently under-eating means your body thinks you've been thrown into a Siberian gulag with work detail and works to preserve itself and does that by slowing down your metabolism which means slower, more painful loss.

I think seeing a doctor and just having your thyroid and other levels checked for peace of mind is not a bad idea, but I honestly would encourage you to, at the very least, eat back 50% of your exercise calories. I don't trust MFP's burns (they seem high), but the method prescribed only works if you eat back some portion of the burn. Give that a try for a couple of weeks and see if it helps.

You need a sustainable program, and you will have to increase calories as you progress to get nearer to maintenance. The earlier you can find that balance, the better. And it's not necessary to increase carbs - I usually use my extra on hot chocolate or a sweet, but that's me. No rule out there that says you can't eat eggs and a sweet potato if that appeals to you.

protmb

First off... alright, I will buy a digital scale! I promise. However, I will tell you right now, there is no way on this earth I am anywhere near the caloric intake that would put me at my calories burned + 1900 base. Not unless I was sleep walking to McDonald's every night!

I was very hesitant about TDEE too, until I got my fitbit (which I don't recommend because you are doing strength-training, which fitbit doesn't measure well) and those averages confirmed the online calculator averages. Now, I am currently in a situation where my TDEE is way lower than normal because I no longer get to walk at work (I normally have 2 full time staff members and currently have 0, so I never leave my desk at this point). I have adjusted my intake to account for the lowered activity, and I adjust daily to fitbit, rather than TDEE, but it has worked really well for me. REALLY well.

Okay, I am trying to get my head around accepting this idea of TDEE. Mostly because as I mentioned, in the past I have run, lifted etc, but never before have I put 5+ weeks of 6 day a week weights/cardio together so maybe there is something there? I guess old habits die hard because I'm afraid of making that adjustment (just being honest).

But one thing you said reminded me of something else I did. You mentioned a fitbit.... well when I was getting back into this stuff about November 2013, I got a Polar Flow band.

I know people here are big on recording food, and I swear I've done my due diligence there (but will get a scale!) but check out my physical recordings:

I wanted to calculate how much energy I was using at work/home/exercise, etc, etc. I put in all my data at Polar.com and used the band and you know what I found? I was way under. I could not believe how many days I had at about 50% of my recommended exercise rate for my age and size!!!

That polar loop is a BIG part of why I decided to do 7 day a week workouts. And like you said, it's terrible for resistance training UNLESS you get a heartrate monitor.

So I hooked up the heartrate monitor, did weight training, and it even synchs up with the (bluetooth) monitor on the treadmill I use.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I just checked my average on the Polar Flow Diary:

I am always over 100% (the odd day I didn't have it charged I won't count) I have it often at 120-144% of my daily requirement. My recorded workouts are 1:18-1:40 minutes. I seem to burn 660-800 calories on these sessions. My workouts seem to average 110-117BPM.

Now that's according to Polar Flow's website using the heartrate monitor in conjunction with wrist band. I have recently added more strength training to my routines but haven't uploaded my data in three days.

autoee

I"m a similiar age, weight and height, I"m eating right at 2000 calories a day and have averaged about 2.5 lbs/week weight loss so I think the numbers you are using for intake are correct. My workouts burn about the same amount of calories 4-5 days a week. Are you using any oils/marinades to cook with that you might not be considering in your calorie count. When I started to log everyting including water, I saw an improvment in results. Be aware the database isn't flawless, there are items that have incorrect information in them, may want to crosscheck against another source.

easjer

I know people here are big on recording food, and I swear I've done my due diligence there (but will get a scale!) but check out my physical recordings:

I wanted to calculate how much energy I was using at work/home/exercise, etc, etc. I put in all my data at Polar.com and used the band and you know what I found? I was way under. I could not believe how many days I had at about 50% of my recommended exercise rate for my age and size!!!

That polar loop is a BIG part of why I decided to do 7 day a week workouts. And like you said, it's terrible for resistance training UNLESS you get a heartrate monitor.

So I hooked up the heartrate monitor, did weight training, and it even synchs up with the (bluetooth) monitor on the treadmill I use.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I just checked my average on the Polar Flow Diary:

I am always over 100% (the odd day I didn't have it charged I won't count) I have it often at 120-144% of my daily requirement. My recorded workouts are 1:18-1:40 minutes. I seem to burn 660-800 calories on these sessions. My workouts seem to average 110-117BPM.

Now that's according to Polar Flow's website using the heartrate monitor in conjunction with wrist band. I have recently added more strength training to my routines but haven't uploaded my data in three days.

So am I understanding that you are burning 660-800 calories per workout?

Why don't you try eating back half of those every day? Try adding back 350-400 calories per day, for 2-3 weeks and see what happens? Choose healthy foods, good proteins, good fats. It doesn't have to be junk (er, like I eat). I bet you will feel physically better and I think you'll lose more weight.

I definitely understand hesitation with TDEE (if you are overestimating your TDEE, then you reduce your caloric deficit, which is why I rely on fitbit. Which, as with the HRM, is still not perfect and based on a calculation that may not be totally accurate for your actual burn) - but the way MFP is structured, you are supposed to eat back the calories to maintain a reasonable deficit. Too long under a reasonable deficit, too long under BMR and your metabolism suffers.

I do think you are definitely retaining water and glycogen for muscle repair, which is contributing. I do think measurements will help you as well, because scales are not always accurate or the best measure of weight loss and fitness. There are so many thing that can throw off your weight at any given time, you know? I believe what you are doing will work, if you add back a portion of those burned calories.

GL man.

Tanya949

Wow, Thank you for quick responses.

I have lurked for a long time on the forum, and new the 'open' your calc post would come but to be honest it looks bad because I only enter a new meal if it is different from a meal the day before. So I can assure you I stay under 1900, sometimes by a hair, but I don't even eat my 'work out calories' to try as hard as possible to retain a deficit without starving.

I don't have a digital scale but what I do is measure everything. Then I get out my calc. If ANYTHING is uncertain I compare it to the excellent database that Fitnesspal provides (What a great tool!)

If something doesn't fall in those two categories, I don't eat it. Like I say though, my menu is VERY boring.

IE: I have had two strips of bacon, 1.3 cup of steel cut oats for breakfast every day for 2 months.
My lunch is the same chicken breast wrap with the same wrap, 2 tablespoons of ranch for the last 2 months....

My only deviation is supper. It might be lean pork, chicken, steak, lean hamburger. All measured and calculated. I am used to doing this from Atkins.

What is NEW to me is counting macros closer. It appears (as started in my post) I eat more fats, and far less Carbs than recommended by my fitnesspal. BUT I confess, carbs scare the crap out of me so you'll never see me eating bread, too much fruit, etc, etc.

Do you have any sense of TDEE? I wonder if you are eating enough. My BMR as a 34 year old woman who weighs 307 at 5'9" is above what you are eating (~2100), and my TDEE with less activity (say 3-4 hours of moderate workout per week) puts my TDEE around 3500.

Are you taking measurements and noting differences anywhere else (I do measurements every other week)?

While you generally cannot increase muscle while on a caloric deficit, you are in the ONE situation in which that is possible - starting intense weights while increasing protein and at a beginner level with lots of fat stores.


It can take some time for your body to adjust, and you will retain water. I do NOT think it's necessary for you to return to Atkins. But you do have to find the sweet spot for eating that is enough to keep your metabolism chugging along and to maintain a deficit. That can take weeks of trial and error. It's HARD to get used to that, especially when you are working out so hard and putting in so much effort, but patience is unfortunately a big piece of weight loss when you have as much to lose as we do.

Thank you for this. I appreciate your experience.

I have to admit this is the first time I have calculated TDEE: Mine is 3816. My BMR is... 2330. I have stuck with Fitnesspal's suggestion of staying under 1910.

I have only broken this when I know I am still under my exercise calories and that's happened maybe... 2 times?

I see where you are going with this TDEE but I am very, very reluctant to increase my calories/carbs.

On measurements... yes I took them. I had a shocking increase in bicep size (muscle memory ? If you believe in such a thing?) All other areas were very similar. BUT I am due to take them and record this Saturday.

You are eating way too low for lifting heavy 6 days a week. You are also eating below your BMR, which you should not do. If your TDEE is 3816, take 20% off, and eat that every day, forget what MFP says. This is along the lines of "Eat more 2 weigh less" program which could be perfect for you since you lift. May I suggest you take a look at the group on here, it will tell you step by step how increasing your calories will result in weight loss. Ask the same questions there as you did here in your first post, you will get some very helpful and accurate information, and you can make a decision if increasing calories is what you want to do.

I am a 40 yo female, BMR1653, TDEE 2800, eating 2200 calories a day and losing 1.5-2 lbs per week, easily, Three workouts per week, a mix of cardio/strength training circuits.

vjohn04

Some quick questions / possible recommendations:

My calorie counting is very strong but it is not ALL documented because my diet is extremely similar every day.

Log everything, every day. every bite. Get a food scale if you don't have one and use it for everything you can. What's your TDEE with a sedentary lifestyle?

I have picked up Weight Lifting with a vengeance.

How long ago? 5 weeks? Possibly retaining water / fluid especially if you weigh after a high intensity lifting day...


Forget your low carb, no sugar stuff. Calories are what matter for weight loss. Carb restriction without consideration to calories typically leads to water weight loss, not fat loss.

Read and live the link:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1080242-a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants


Profit.

nespinosa3

I think you may find it very helpful to either go to the doctor, or get a Metabolic Testing done. I'm getting mine this Saturday. They basically measure your output of oxygen to CO2 and tell you how many calories you burn just by existing. That way, it could give you a better idea of whether 1900 is too low or too high.
Lifting 6x a week, I wouldn't recommend it unless you are a professional weight lifter. Muscle changes as much during rest as it does during workout. Resting is *very* important for your body. How about you try mixing it up? Add some cardio 3x a week, do weights 3x a week. Try it for a couple of weeks and see how it goes.
Definitely buy a scale - trust me!!! I was also "logging correctly without a scale" yeah right...then I got one and I was so off.

Try different things and give it a couple of weeks. I really wish you good luck

sally493

What about the Hcg Injections for a kick start? Dr Oz had a seqment on his show.

ParkerH47

If the above suggestions don't work for you there might be one other option

This is not always a recommendation of mine, BUT, have you looked into intermittent fasting? aka the 5:2 diet.. many people on here have seen results. The only reason I am thinking of this is because you are clearly working VERY hard to remain at a deficit and its not working so it is likely an issue with your metabolism that 5:2 *might* help to improve. Weirdly enough I've never tried it but I've been thinking about it...

Other than that - I would agree that a digital scale would be wise, and possibly reducing your calories by 100-200 calories

meritage4

I don't get why you don't log all your food. if it's as consistent as you say it then really easy to log.