Food Addiction
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No alcoholic blackout. Have you ever suffered from alcoholism? Have you ever been addicted to drugs? People love to compare them without ever having first hand knowledge.
And.....I have had blackouts from alcohol without being addicted to it. Binge drinking, like binge eating, is often a behavioral disorder. I can drink alcohol now without abusing it. It's not a coping mechanism for me anymore. But nicotine? *sigh*
People often use the word "addiction" to mean something different from what it actually is. Addiction is a medical condition. Binge eating, bulimia, anorexia, etc, are all psychological conditions that may or may not lead to a health condition down the road. That's not to say that one is worse/better than the other, but simply to point out that they are different things. I firmly believe in calling things what they are, not what they are not.
I think a food black out would be comparable to a binge meal, like on Thanksgiving where you have so much food you eat after you are stuffed because its there, and because it tastes so good and its a holiday, and you get that huge stomach ache and all you want to do is take a nap you are so stuffed, and when you go out to the all you can eat buffet and eat 6 plates of delicious food because you want all you can for your $20 and then when you leave you are so stuffed you have a big stomach ache.
Whatever word you want to call it - addiction, or compulsive behavior - its just a label for a condition - you eat food as a reward rather than fuel for the body. If you want to parse words fine. But the thing is still there - a wrong relationship with food.
To those of you who have this whatever you want to call it, its real. Of course no one has to be a slave to it. It can change with the next mouthful so it is curable. You just have to know how to stop using food as anything but fuel. And I beleive I have a food addiction, but I choose not to give in to it, and I am ok with that. but i know if i start to indulge in it too much it can get ahold of me again, food tastes so good, and I've used it as a reward and emotional reasons.
If no one wants to believe me, its no skin off my nose. I have to deal with me. I am not going to spend time trying to prove anything to anyone, nor will their disbeleif cause me distress. I still have to deal with my body here and my mind, and I will lose this weight, 2 pounds a week at a time. Thats how i will beat this crap.0 -
Me too............here have an oreo.I promised myself I'd stay out of these threads . . . :flowerforyou:
Ooooooo! Thank you! Got milk?0 -
I find milk addicting so I whip up some 35% cream and use it as a dip.
Me too............here have an oreo.I promised myself I'd stay out of these threads . . . :flowerforyou:
Ooooooo! Thank you! Got milk?0 -
I find milk addicting so I whip up some 35% cream and use it as a dip.
Me too............here have an oreo.I promised myself I'd stay out of these threads . . . :flowerforyou:
Ooooooo! Thank you! Got milk?
I'm pretty sure that I'll end up trying this now. Thanks for the sabotage :drinker:0 -
In regards to your post I personally have seen those situations many times with drugs but not with food. I know you mentioned all of those because I know your story and I know what you went through mentally. So I then can't say it never happens. But I do also know you've learned to practice moderation which I don't think is an option with drugs and alcohol when it becomes a dependence.
I believe that the dependence on drugs is both psychological and physiological. The creation of new dopamine receptors in the Brian takes chemical dependence to a level that so many people can't get past or are afraid to attempt to venture out of. If that individual does succeed to overcome their dependence they are mentally altered and physically altered forever. With alcoholics the physical dependence is so extreme that even going an extended time frame out of their normal routine without a drink reeks havoc on them physically. I have personally seen these withdrawals mimic a massive heart attack at a level that is scary. It's the one withdrawal I know that can actually kill you. I don't feel or believe that people that suffer from what they call food addiction compare. All those sets of groups take will power to overcome their issue but food is not on part with the physical dependence of the others.
If you look at the studies esp the neuro imaging ones the exact same neurophysiological dependence you talk about can happen with food.
And to be hugely controversial I believe all recovered addicts can practice moderation if they absolutely have to, it's just that most don't need to as they stop the substance completely. So for me the argument of you still eat in moderation therefore food addiction doesn't exist doesn't fly. Where is the evidence for this bizarre rule that people quote? Of course it is different for food simply because you have no choice but to learn to moderate or die.
Also yes alcohol withdrawal can be very dangerous but there are plenty of other things that are not dangerous, just deeply unpleasant. Danger of withdrawal has no relevance here. If I used the same logic of the anomoly making it not an addiction that people apply to food then either only alcohol is addictive or alcohol is not addictive. Especially combined with the low rate of alcohol addiction compared to the number of people that drink it.0 -
It would have been classy if CyberEd's post had been the last one, but since that ship has sailed...
First of all, many addictive drugs don't cause physical withdrawal. Cocaine and methamphetamine would be examples.The creation of new dopamine receptors in the Brian takes chemical dependence to a level that so many people can't get past or are afraid to attempt to venture out of.
However, since you mentioned alterations in the brain's dopamine receptors, here's a quote from the link I provided earlier:
As I said, what isn't known is which caused which - the article cites a few studies that would suggest a genetic link as well - but there is evidence for a correlation between abnormal brain activity and obesity.In human studies, obese people and drug addicts both tend to show reduced expression of D2 receptors in striatal areas, and imaging studies have demonstrated that similar brain areas are activated by food- and drug-related cues (Wang et al., 2009). Positron emission tomography (PET) studies suggest that the availability of D2 receptors was decreased in obese individuals in proportion to their body mass index (Wang et al., 2001), thus suggesting that DA deficiency in obese individuals may perpetuate pathological eating as a means of compensating for the decreased activation of DA-mediated reward circuits. Volkow and co-workers also reported that obese versus lean adults show less striatal D2 receptor binding, and that this was positively correlated with metabolism in the dorsolateral prefrontal, medial orbitofrontal, anterior cingulate gyrus and somatosensory cortices (Volkow et al., 2008).
This sums up my opinion as well. I'm sympathetic to the notion of overeating as an addictive behaviour, though unsympathetic (but not dismissive) to the notion of specific nutrients being addictive, but jokingly dismissing an idea that has some amount of scientific evidence behind it and seems to have struck a chord for so many people is... not something a serious person would do.To qualify - Im not even sure I believe in food addiction - have never used it as an excuse....but for people to be so outrightly dismissive is really closed minded.0 -
Thing is….many times it is not just food that is a problem for a person, it is a wide range of other issues on top of the issue with food. I do not deny that people struggle with food, I do not deny that certain food related disorders exist, but at this point there is not enough evidence for "food addiction" to be added to any diagnostic material. Will that change with the update to the next DSM? Possibly. However, we have to go with what we know now and that is "food addiction" is not an accurate term/diagnosis and is thrown around a bit too easy these days. Binge Eating Disorder (BED) is a real thing, but it is not as common as overeating and it is not food addiction.
What we do know is there are other diagnoses that capture issues with food and other behaviors, which can be treated and a person can see improvements in all areas of their lives, not just those that are related to food. In addition, I understand there are people that do not believe and/or trust the DSM, but without it, people would find it extremely difficult to seek treatment and find a way to pay for it.0 -
Thing is….many times it is not just food that is a problem for a person, it is a wide range of other issues on top of the issue with food. I do not deny that people struggle with food, I do not deny that certain food related disorders exist, but at this point there is not enough evidence for "food addiction" to be added to any diagnostic material. Will that change with the update to the next DSM? Possibly. However, we have to go with what we know now and that is "food addiction" is not an accurate term/diagnosis and is thrown around a bit too easy these days. Binge Eating Disorder (BED) is a real thing, but it is not as common as overeating and it is not food addiction.
You are correct, but it could be a long time for food addiction to be added to the DSM. Binge Eating Disorder was first described and named in 1959, but it was not added until the DSM-V in 2013, yet it was well accepted and treated at least a decade before that. I'll admit that food addiction may not exist, but research began back in 1994 and so far there has not been a study contradicting the theory proposed by G. Terrance Wilson in 1993. Certainly more research needs to be done, but the medical field is slowly beginning to recognize it.0 -
I think part of the problem is that "addiction" is not one thing nor is it something that's either present or not.
Repetitive behaviors fall along a huge spectrum from "barely a habit" to addictions with such a strong grip on behavior that they kill the person. It creates difficulty trying to decide where on the spectrum to draw a line and say "everything on this side is addiction." And it also creates difficulty evaluating (subjectively) where along the spectrum any individual might be.
Adding to this difficulty is the fact that our culture is so prone to exaggeration that the word "literally" has lost its meaning. We've actually hit the wall in how far it is possible to exaggerate.
So when someone says "I'm addicted to added sugars" it's pretty ridiculous to expect anyone to take them at face value.
It's odd because if someone on these forums calls themselves anorexic as a form of exaggeration, people will jump all over them. But when people make frivolous "food addiction" claims all the white knights dive in to argue their side.0 -
If food were not so addicting, or whatever you want to call it, why then do people eat so much that they get so hugely fat, and when they know they are going to die, or when they realize they want a life outside of the room they are stuck in, and when they are told they will die unless they lose weight, and other such things, (like on the TV show My 600 Pound Life) why after the very painful weight loss surgery do they sometimes not be able to stop feeding themselves Macdonalds (which is off limits for the most part after weight loss surgery). Why do they keep on feeding themselves food that makes them fat. The proof that the food is making them fat is the fact that the scale shows they gained weight rather than lost weight even though they claim to have stuck to the diet.
And why even in the hospital, do they continue to sneak in food and they just cannot stop nor do they choose to change their eating so they can lose weight?
how come they have allowed food to make them so disabled that they cant walk, they develop lymphodemas and they STILL cant put down the fattening food?
It must be that the food they are eating is more rewarding then not eating it.
So what word would you call it? If food were not satisfying/rewarding/whatever, they would be able to eat non-fattening food and they would not have such a hard time.
Closer to home, why is it that food is so good that we cant give up some things, we enjoy them too much - fortunately for most people, fattening food is controllable and many people eat enough so that they don't even get fat. But what causes people to go over the edge and it gets to be too much and therefore gain weight. Yes i know biology in our bodies is programmed to store excess food as a natural thing because when we were cavemen we needed that.
I personally dont care what you call it, when you start to gain weight when you dont need to, that is a behavior/addiction that needs seomething done to change it, thats whats important. And I dont feel its important for me to prove to you what that thing is called that made me fat, the thing i need to focus on is losing the weight and find out what i can eat that will make me get to that goal.
I think it may be both addiction and compulsive behavior actually, and personal choice. its my choice to put the food in my mouth, no one is feeding me. I can change myself with every bite of food. I dont have to be a slave to it. And just because I say i have an addiction does not mean I am not doing anything about it and absolving myself from personal responsibility and personal choice.
But it also does not help when someone discounts what I feel it is, by degrading my feeling that I have an addiction. Pain is pain. Some people can handle a lot of pain and others cant, but both people are feeling pain, its all in their perception.0 -
Something else I want to throw out there is Casein. The full name of casein is casomorphin. It is an opiate found in dairy products. It is designed to have baby mammals enjoy nursing and come back to it. Human milk has 2.7 grams of casein per liter of milk. Cow's milk has 26. It takes roughly 10 pounds of milk to make 1 pound of cheese or ice cream. The process of making cheese or ice cream does not diminish casein. It concentrates it.
Can you show me where it's said, " The full name of casein is casomorphin"
http://yumuniverse.com/addiction-to-cheese-is-real-thanks-to-casomorphins/
http://www.pcrm.org/good-medicine/2003/summer/breaking-the-food-seduction
http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/peptide.asp
http://itsnotmental.blogspot.com/2011/08/brain-health-cut-out-casein-doped-with.html
http://freefromharm.org/health-nutrition/addicted-to-cheese-and-ice-cream-the-opiate-qualities-of-dairy/
Granted, the fourth reference is a little sketchy, but the rest are sound, especially the second and last references. I can find more if you are not convinced.
Not great at reading eh? And the "sound references" are vegan propaganda websites, so completely free from bias. 1st paragraph, 2nd sentence from the last reference you called sound;
"Perhaps it was Dr. T. Colin Campbell’s seminal work, The China Study, that was the catalyst for this new understanding of dairy addiction."
LMAO0 -
It would have been classy if CyberEd's post had been the last one, but since that ship has sailed...
First of all, many addictive drugs don't cause physical withdrawal. Cocaine and methamphetamine would be examples.The creation of new dopamine receptors in the Brian takes chemical dependence to a level that so many people can't get past or are afraid to attempt to venture out of.
Sorry, but this is incorrect. Both cocaine *and* amphetamines have an associated withdrawal syndrome. It isn't as severe as opiates, alcohol, or nicotine, but it is more severe than caffeine.
(Clearly, you've never met my brother-in-law. You could see cocaine withdrawal in action...lost his job, his truck, his house, and nearly everything but the clothes off his back.)
Sorry, but a quick Google search will bring you to several websites that provide a list of physical effects. I have witnessed these in real life too. My town's nickname is "Methdependence." I have seen amphetamine withdrawal in real life, about a hundred times over the last 20 years. It ain't pretty.
A quick list off the top of my head:
depression
lethargy
irritability
shaking/shuddering
vomiting
headaches
GIYF for more info.0 -
If food were not so addicting, or whatever you want to call it, why then do people eat so much that they get so hugely fat, ...
Because they don't care if they are fat, or they want to eat more than they want to not be fat. It's not that food is addictive, it's that people like to eat more than they like to be "healthy."0 -
Short definition of addiction. (from the American Society of Addiction Medicine and not my mate Dave down the gym).
Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.
Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death.
http://www.asam.org/for-the-public/definition-of-addiction
I quoted the above for the definition to then add my statement below and is not directed at you tennisdude200 but this being a general question to anyone that wants to answer it...
So would you say someone that would move money around from accounts to free up funds to pay for their addiction, or sell stuff or pawn things to get money to fuel their addiction, or buy their items that feed their addiction and make elaborate hiding places in the house and garage so their family would not find them, or belligerently abuse family members for over a decade when they attempted to intervene in your life to try to help you from an addiction you would swear you did not have, or become so depressed from the constant struggles you would go through that life just didn't seem like it was worth living so you sat in a chair with a loaded hand gun with the trigger cocked and the barrel in your mouth, crying and pleading to an emptying room that you needed help and no one was listening?? Does any of those constitute that someone may be dealing with an addiction??? or is this just a Disorder for the person suffering these symptoms???
THIS ^^^^
This x 1000000000000 -
Very much agree.0
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So would you say someone that would move money around from accounts to free up funds to pay for their addiction, or sell stuff or pawn things to get money to fuel their addiction, or buy their items that feed their addiction and make elaborate hiding places in the house and garage so their family would not find them, or belligerently abuse family members for over a decade when they attempted to intervene in your life to try to help you from an addiction you would swear you did not have, or become so depressed from the constant struggles you would go through that life just didn't seem like it was worth living so you sat in a chair with a loaded hand gun with the trigger cocked and the barrel in your mouth, crying and pleading to an emptying room that you needed help and no one was listening?? Does any of those constitute that someone may be dealing with an addiction??? or is this just a Disorder for the person suffering these symptoms???
You left out "taking out payday loans then closing your account."
It could be either one. As I said Friday (may have been in the DQ thread), you can have an addiction that does not cause financial/emotional problems (i.e. nicotine). And you can have these sorts of problems as a result of something other than addiction (i.e. compulsive shopping). Or, yeah, you might be a crackhead. Simply having the problems listed above does not necessarily mean the person has an addiction. Any number of behavioral disorders can lead a person down that path.0 -
So would you say someone that would move money around from accounts to free up funds to pay for their addiction, or sell stuff or pawn things to get money to fuel their addiction, or buy their items that feed their addiction and make elaborate hiding places in the house and garage so their family would not find them, or belligerently abuse family members for over a decade when they attempted to intervene in your life to try to help you from an addiction you would swear you did not have, or become so depressed from the constant struggles you would go through that life just didn't seem like it was worth living so you sat in a chair with a loaded hand gun with the trigger cocked and the barrel in your mouth, crying and pleading to an emptying room that you needed help and no one was listening?? Does any of those constitute that someone may be dealing with an addiction??? or is this just a Disorder for the person suffering these symptoms???
You left out "taking out payday loans then closing your account."
It could be either one. As I said Friday (may have been in the DQ thread), you can have an addiction that does not cause financial/emotional problems (i.e. nicotine). And you can have these sorts of problems as a result of something other than addiction (i.e. compulsive shopping). Or, yeah, you might be a crackhead. Simply having the problems listed above does not necessarily mean the person has an addiction. Any number of behavioral disorders can lead a person down that path.
What's your definition of addition?0 -
So would you say someone that would move money around from accounts to free up funds to pay for their addiction, or sell stuff or pawn things to get money to fuel their addiction, or buy their items that feed their addiction and make elaborate hiding places in the house and garage so their family would not find them, or belligerently abuse family members for over a decade when they attempted to intervene in your life to try to help you from an addiction you would swear you did not have, or become so depressed from the constant struggles you would go through that life just didn't seem like it was worth living so you sat in a chair with a loaded hand gun with the trigger cocked and the barrel in your mouth, crying and pleading to an emptying room that you needed help and no one was listening?? Does any of those constitute that someone may be dealing with an addiction??? or is this just a Disorder for the person suffering these symptoms???
You left out "taking out payday loans then closing your account."
It could be either one. As I said Friday (may have been in the DQ thread), you can have an addiction that does not cause financial/emotional problems (i.e. nicotine). And you can have these sorts of problems as a result of something other than addiction (i.e. compulsive shopping). Or, yeah, you might be a crackhead. Simply having the problems listed above does not necessarily mean the person has an addiction. Any number of behavioral disorders can lead a person down that path.
What's your definition of addition?
an associated physical withdrawal syndrome
ETA: Mine is the definition as it has been known to medicine for hundreds of years. I am not impressed with the new definitions.0 -
So would you say someone that would move money around from accounts to free up funds to pay for their addiction, or sell stuff or pawn things to get money to fuel their addiction, or buy their items that feed their addiction and make elaborate hiding places in the house and garage so their family would not find them, or belligerently abuse family members for over a decade when they attempted to intervene in your life to try to help you from an addiction you would swear you did not have, or become so depressed from the constant struggles you would go through that life just didn't seem like it was worth living so you sat in a chair with a loaded hand gun with the trigger cocked and the barrel in your mouth, crying and pleading to an emptying room that you needed help and no one was listening?? Does any of those constitute that someone may be dealing with an addiction??? or is this just a Disorder for the person suffering these symptoms???
You left out "taking out payday loans then closing your account."
It could be either one. As I said Friday (may have been in the DQ thread), you can have an addiction that does not cause financial/emotional problems (i.e. nicotine). And you can have these sorts of problems as a result of something other than addiction (i.e. compulsive shopping). Or, yeah, you might be a crackhead. Simply having the problems listed above does not necessarily mean the person has an addiction. Any number of behavioral disorders can lead a person down that path.
What's your definition of addition?
an associated physical withdrawal syndrome
ETA: Mine is the definition as it has been known to medicine for hundreds of years. I am not impressed with the new definitions.
Like the symptoms some people experience when cutting sugar?0 -
So would you say someone that would move money around from accounts to free up funds to pay for their addiction, or sell stuff or pawn things to get money to fuel their addiction, or buy their items that feed their addiction and make elaborate hiding places in the house and garage so their family would not find them, or belligerently abuse family members for over a decade when they attempted to intervene in your life to try to help you from an addiction you would swear you did not have, or become so depressed from the constant struggles you would go through that life just didn't seem like it was worth living so you sat in a chair with a loaded hand gun with the trigger cocked and the barrel in your mouth, crying and pleading to an emptying room that you needed help and no one was listening?? Does any of those constitute that someone may be dealing with an addiction??? or is this just a Disorder for the person suffering these symptoms???
You left out "taking out payday loans then closing your account."
It could be either one. As I said Friday (may have been in the DQ thread), you can have an addiction that does not cause financial/emotional problems (i.e. nicotine). And you can have these sorts of problems as a result of something other than addiction (i.e. compulsive shopping). Or, yeah, you might be a crackhead. Simply having the problems listed above does not necessarily mean the person has an addiction. Any number of behavioral disorders can lead a person down that path.
What's your definition of addition?
an associated physical withdrawal syndrome
ETA: Mine is the definition as it has been known to medicine for hundreds of years. I am not impressed with the new definitions.
Like the symptoms some people experience when cutting sugar?
I'm not aware of a physical withdrawal syndrome related to sugar, considering that our bodies run on sugar.
no glucose = death0
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