Calorie Deficit Questions
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And I forgot one thing in my other post. This calculating, exactly how many calories I will eat will = that weight loss, and if I exercise exactly this much- it will therefore subtract exactly that, and I will therefore lose exactly that. Just track everything. And build up slowly to the diet and the exercise. I am afraid to say this, but the exact calculations do not work out long term. Any lifer can tell you that. You are setting yourself up to be discouraged- great, calculate, dream have goals. But exact days per pounds per week will not happen like that. YOu will have flat weeks, big weeks, minor weeks- it is a process. You have great enthusiasm! That is wonderful.0
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People you are NOT READING the OPs posts. We're not talking about just an overweight person but one with other health issues. Her Dr(s) KNOW these conditions better than us. You're right to QUESTION and advice CAUTION but NOT to simply ignore the Drs advice.
OP Best of luck ......... you may be better off talking to your Dr(s) and clarifying their advice.0 -
Doesn't every single person who has surgery eat at the levels ya'll are saying this doctor should be abandoned over?
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Is it somehow ok to eat at that kind of deficit with the surgery but yet not without, other than the fact that it is probably easier with the surgery?
The short answer is yes, having surgery makes VLCD vaguely acceptable. That is because you are surgically altering your body. Also people on these plans have to supplement their meagre diet with nutritionally-complete shakes to make sure they get all their vitamins and minerals. In such cases the decision is usually made because the risk of remaining overweight is significantly higher than the risk of losing weight drastically. In 99.99% of cases the reverse risk-assessment applies. Also most pre-bariatric surgery eating plans are more like 1000-1200 calories.
In any event the OP is not prepping for surgery so your argument is irrelevant.0 -
People you are NOT READING the OPs posts. We're not talking about just an overweight person but one with other health issues. Her Dr(s) KNOW these conditions better than us. You're right to QUESTION and advice CAUTION but NOT to simply ignore the Drs advice.
OP Best of luck ......... you may be better off talking to your Dr(s) and clarifying their advice.
Where in the OP are health issues mentioned? I can't find any reference on her posts or her profile...0 -
Technically I could be prepping for surgery, this is to see how well my body will adjust and to measure if I truly will need the surgery because of other issues. At 27 and being told no fast food, nothing high in fat, sugar, salt. No gluten products. Things people enjoy sausage, bread, regular grains I'm not suppose to have because they are basic poison to my body.0
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Not really - the question is - does surgery "do" anything that means the body that can work with low calories better?In any event the OP is not prepping for surgery so your argument is irrelevant.
I'm not aware that it does, bar make it easier to eat less.
That being the case, why is it not unhealthy for someone post-surgery to eat this, but is for someone pre-surgery?0 -
People you are NOT READING the OPs posts. We're not talking about just an overweight person but one with other health issues. Her Dr(s) KNOW these conditions better than us. You're right to QUESTION and advice CAUTION but NOT to simply ignore the Drs advice.
OP Best of luck ......... you may be better off talking to your Dr(s) and clarifying their advice.
Where in the OP are health issues mentioned? I can't find any reference on her posts or her profile...
About six comments before your last...0 -
OP- honey, I'm in a very close boat to you (5'5", currently 292#, of course everyone is different), but let me tell you about my plan/goals/progress:
Starting weight was 320, current weight is 292- 28# lost in about 7 weeks. To lose 2# per week, MFP gives me a calorie goal of 1920 per day. Already more than 800 calories over your plan. I work out at least an hour 5 days per week. The other two days I usually do 30-45 minutes. Those hour long workouts burn approximately 900 calories a piece. I eat back at least half of those calories, bringing my total daily intake to about 2400. I occasionally come in pretty far under, but NEVER under the basic, no workout MFP recommended calories. All that said, I'm still losing about 3 pounds per week. And I couldn't fathom eating much less- it would pretty much be all vegetables at that point!
Workout out will make you HUNGRY. Keep that in mind. Your body needs fuel to keep itself running basic functions, and it needs even more fuel when you're asking it to do strenuous workouts daily. 1100 calories per day, plus 900 calories burned through exercise will burn you out in no time- you won't sleep well, you won't have the energy to get through your day, much less workout for at least an hour, you may start losing hair, etc. Being overweight is obviously unhealthy, but cutting so drastically is more so, and ultimately may not help you lose the weight you want. Sustaining that kind of loss will be difficult to say the least, and once you get to maintenance, your body won't know what to do with all that food.
We are a very loving and supportive community, and really only want the best for each other (for the most part). Please, please, please- go see your doctor again with the math that you've worked out, and see if he's still okay with it. If he is, please get a second and even third opinion. If each of those three doctors signs off on your plan, then by all means, listen to them as I've never been to medical school, but see what their opinions are with the actual numbers in front of them.
Please feel free to send me a friend request as well- we're all here for the same reason, and I'd love to help you through your loss!0 -
OP- honey, I'm in a very close boat to you (5'5", currently 292#, of course everyone is different), but let me tell you about my plan/goals/progress:
Starting weight was 320, current weight is 292- 28# lost in about 7 weeks. To lose 2# per week, MFP gives me a calorie goal of 1920 per day. Already more than 800 calories over your plan. I work out at least an hour 5 days per week. The other two days I usually do 30-45 minutes. Those hour long workouts burn approximately 900 calories a piece. I eat back at least half of those calories, bringing my total daily intake to about 2400. I occasionally come in pretty far under, but NEVER under the basic, no workout MFP recommended calories. All that said, I'm still losing about 3 pounds per week. And I couldn't fathom eating much less- it would pretty much be all vegetables at that point!
Workout out will make you HUNGRY. Keep that in mind. Your body needs fuel to keep itself running basic functions, and it needs even more fuel when you're asking it to do strenuous workouts daily. 1100 calories per day, plus 900 calories burned through exercise will burn you out in no time- you won't sleep well, you won't have the energy to get through your day, much less workout for at least an hour, you may start losing hair, etc. Being overweight is obviously unhealthy, but cutting so drastically is more so, and ultimately may not help you lose the weight you want. Sustaining that kind of loss will be difficult to say the least, and once you get to maintenance, your body won't know what to do with all that food.
We are a very loving and supportive community, and really only want the best for each other (for the most part). Please, please, please- go see your doctor again with the math that you've worked out, and see if he's still okay with it. If he is, please get a second and even third opinion. If each of those three doctors signs off on your plan, then by all means, listen to them as I've never been to medical school, but see what their opinions are with the actual numbers in front of them.
Please feel free to send me a friend request as well- we're all here for the same reason, and I'd love to help you through your loss!
I love your response. I'd love to also motivate each other. As things stand fresh fruits and veggies is more or less all I'm really suppose to have to live 'healthy' with my bodys vices lol0 -
I'd like to retract my statement about a Nutritionist over a Dietician. I suck at advice giving and mixed the two. It's the Dieticians that help, not the Nutritionists. I'll try to keep the bad advice away next time. :flowerforyou:0
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I'd like to retract my statement about a Nutritionist over a Dietician. I suck at advice giving and mixed the two. It's the Dieticians that help, not the Nutritionists. I'll try to keep the bad advice away next time. :flowerforyou:
No bad advice :-) just good old fashioned concern0 -
People you are NOT READING the OPs posts. We're not talking about just an overweight person but one with other health issues. Her Dr(s) KNOW these conditions better than us. You're right to QUESTION and advice CAUTION but NOT to simply ignore the Drs advice.
OP Best of luck ......... you may be better off talking to your Dr(s) and clarifying their advice.
Where in the OP are health issues mentioned? I can't find any reference on her posts or her profile...
About six comments before your last...
Thanks. I had missed that. However, this doesn't strike me as a health problem that warrants such extreme restriction though. It definitely requires action and an overhaul of your diet and exercise. But starvation and extreme stress on all your other organs? NO. You can bring your pancreas to normal functioning without going below 1500 calories per day, as well as eating back exercise calories (or some other reasonable number, I just plucked 1500 off the top of my head). Anyway, please do listen to what people have said. And please read up on the health risks of VLCDs. Sudden death is a side effect, which is probably the worst side effect possible. Take care of your body, don't punish it.0 -
Let me open by stating that I started at north of 330 pounds. I'm still at over 240. I know what it's like to have a LOT of weight to lose. It's overwhelming to think about how long it's going to take to get to a healthy weight. Of course you want to see progress as fast as possible.
Chances are, the math you proposed is over-conservative. You will -- over the short term, which is what you said you and your doctor are talking about -- probably lose weight faster than calculated.
1. Almost everyone just starting out underestimates their activity level. Sedentary really does literally mean that when you're not lying down, you're sitting down every minute of the day except to get up and use the bathroom. I used to think I was sedentary too, but I didn't realize that just puttering around (laundry, housecleaning, and cooking for example) moves you up a grade or two. You said you have two little girls. Even though you don't feel like you're keeping up with them, that's a lot of work. I presume you feed them. Dress them. Dust off the accumulated dirt once in a while. Get a fitbit or something and you'll see. You're probably AT LEAST "lightly active" if not "moderately active."
2. You're still pretty young. You 20-somethings still burn calories like it's NOTHING. NO BIG DEAL. You've got another 5 years before THAT funtime starts. Use that furnace you're working right now, girl.
3. At a larger weight, you'll find that even small things you do to get more active burn big calories. This I know from personal experience. Moderately overweight people can only lose a little weight by walking, but once you're in the 200s and up, walking so slow, so gently for 15-30 minutes will torch 200 calories easy. You won't even NOTICE you're exercising; if you want to build up a bigger deficit, it takes surprisingly little commitment at first.
Thanks for pointing out that this is a 7 week plan. Since your profile states that you do have long-term ambitions to get to a healthy weight, I'd also hope that you start working on a clear idea of what's going to happen in week 8, and I urge you to think about what a long-term sustainable deficit might be for you. Think about what kind of foods you're cutting out in this short-term, and how to incorporate them into your life during your long-term diet. What foods will you miss the most -- chocolate? wine? cheetos? How can you incorporate 100-200 calorie servings of these things into your diet plan? How frequently? IT WILL MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE to your ability to stay the course.
I mean this with all the compassion I'm capable of: if it were easy, none of us would be fat. Being fat sucks: who wouldn't want to fix it fast? "Oh, I'll just have SUPERHUMAN WILLPOWER. It's not as though willpower has ever betrayed me before!" Problem solved!!! Fixing the problem however takes a long-term commitment and a heaping dose of skepticism about quick fixes. YOU CAN DO IT -- but be gentle, forgiving, and patient with yourself: it will pay off.0 -
Not really - the question is - does surgery "do" anything that means the body that can work with low calories better?In any event the OP is not prepping for surgery so your argument is irrelevant.
I'm not aware that it does, bar make it easier to eat less.
That being the case, why is it not unhealthy for someone post-surgery to eat this, but is for someone pre-surgery?
Did you not read my comment? I answered that: "The decision [to eat VLCD] is usually made because the risk of remaining overweight is significantly higher than the risk of losing weight drastically. In 99.99% of cases the reverse risk-assessment applies." To clarify further: it is still extremely unhealthy for pre-surgery people to eat like that but the risk of not doing so is far higher. For everyone not having surgery (i.e. the OP), the risk assessment is different. And just to reiterate, given risk of sudden death as a side effect of VLCD, you want to be extremely *extremely* cautious about losing weight so drastically. There is no need to resort to such drastic measures when a moderate deficit will be healthier, more sustainable and will ultimately achieve the weight loss desired.
ETA: Also 600-800 calories is usually the prepping diet, after surgery patients are encouraged to go up to ~1200 at which point it is possible to meet basic nutritional requirements and not stress your heart. Obviously the OP is in total control of her body and can do what she feels is necessary, but I really do hope she listens to the concerns expressed on this board. Losing weight to be healthy, and then engaging in extremely dangerous behaviour to achieve that...well it's counter-productive and is likely to see her end up in a worse position than she is currently.
ETA2: This website has usefully collated medical studies highlighting the dangers of VLCD: http://www.apinchofhealth.com/very-low-calorie-diets/research-into-the-dangers-of-very-low-calorie-diets.php (all the links provide at least abstracts).
ETA3: @geebusuk - Just so I can be clear, are you seriously advocating the OP have a NET calorie intake of TWO HUNDRED calories per day? Seriously? TWO HUNDRED. And you see no problem with that? And you can't understand why everyone is explaining how dangerous it is? I just want to clarify because I want to know if you are naively misguided or merely irresponsibly ignorant.0 -
1. The worst diet advice I've ever gotten was from doctors, sorry for party rocking to any doctors reading this thread.
2. If this is about lifestyle change and sustainable weight loss, then no, 1100 calories will not work. At least, my experience with eating that little was that I could do it for MAYBE a week, before I started getting irritable, fatigued and headachy and then just gave up.
I am eating 1850-2000 per day (depending on what exercise I do, I eat back half my exercise calories) and at today's weigh-in I had lost 2 lbs, which is right on track for me (I'm trying to lose a pound a week and I weigh in every two weeks). When I started six weeks ago, eating 2000 a day was tough, but now I am coming in consistently right at 1850 without hunger or having to think about it too much. You want a deficit, but not too much of one. Right now, you are probably eating more calories than you think you are - but you can eat more than you think and still lose. That has DEFINITELY been true for me. If someone had told me, three months ago, "you can eat 1850-2000 calories a day and lose weight" I would have laughed and thought they were crazy. But that's what I'm eating, and I'm losing. Try 4-6 weeks on what MFP gives you as a target - then, if that does not work (and you really are logging EVERYTHING, weighing/measuring, and logging accurately) you can think about adjusting your calories downward. Give the plan the way it is some time to work and I think you will see results you can sustain...good luck to you
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This has to be a joke. Do you really think eating that little and losing that much is safe?
I doubt it is a joke, and clearly she has concerns about the safety otherwise she wouldn't have posted here.0 -
For everyone not having surgery (i.e. the OP), the risk assessment is different.
Aha! There you have hit on my question better than I did- WHY is the risk assessment necessarily different just because she is not *yet* pre-op?
I guess I am wondering, given the choice between VLCD without surgery, and VLCD with surgery, wouldn't VLCD without be at least equally risky? I of course am imagining it is LESS risky, you know due to the LACK of actually being cut open.
Everyone is telling this lady to run run run from her Dr, but if the Dr has her on a plan to see if they can address her health issues and avoid surgery, then I just don't get the advice that she HAS to run away from this Dr.
Anyway it sounds like I am advocating for VLCD and I am not. If anything I guess I am just thinking it worth trying whatever Dr. recommends to avoid surgery, if this situation really is that dire that surgery would be recommended and you are the type who might end up following a Drs' advice and going the surgery route.
We have no idea what her underlying health concerns are and the risk assessment for her particular case (I don't know how we could, since as she says her Dr. is still assessing that situation!)
Though it seems to me it would be prudent to ask the Dr. some very directed questions, like is it really worth it taking X amount less time to lose the weight as opposed to trying to eat at more health-sustaining levels. From the wording of your original post it sounds like the Dr. may have been indicating he wouldn't be surprised if a 5lb/week loss happened, not necessarily that he was advocating that you strive for it. Everyone here brings up some very good concerns regarding striving for that aggressive of a rate of loss. I also agree from my own experience your numbers (while mathematically/theoretically correct) are likely going to end up being off in practice. I always seem to lose WAY more than I think I should when I run the numbers (ahh, the benefits of having a lot to lose!). Others have offered great advice on more realistic/sustainable/healthy goals. Assuming your Dr. really wasn't saying you'd better drop 5lb a week or your death is imminent, I'd seriously consider their advice. You have a lot of experience speaking to you in this thread 0 -
For everyone not having surgery (i.e. the OP), the risk assessment is different.
Aha! There you have hit on my question better than I did- WHY is the risk assessment necessarily different just because she is not *yet* pre-op?
I guess I am wondering, given the choice between VLCD without surgery, and VLCD with surgery, wouldn't VLCD without be at least equally risky? I of course am imagining it is LESS risky, you know due to the LACK of actually being cut open.
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Anyway it sounds like I am advocating for VLCD and I am not. If anything I guess I am just thinking it worth trying whatever Dr. recommends to avoid surgery, if this situation really is that dire that surgery would be recommended and you are the type who might end up following a Drs' advice and going the surgery route.
There is also the choice of neither! That is what everyone is suggesting; a sensible deficit and moderate exercise. Not VLCD with surgery or VLCD without surgery. There are fortunately other options which means there is no need to take such a dangerous and risky path as suggested by the OP's doctor. Besides, the OP's profile says she decided surgery is not for her so that's moot.
And from what she says her doctor hasn't even recommended VLCD (e.g. 800 calories plus nutritionally-complete shakes), he has suggested NETTING two hundred calories per day. That is much more extreme than a regular VLCD and much, much more dangerous. It's quite frankly ludicrously irresponsible advice for a medical practitioner to dish out.0 -
If you'll take the time to read my posts, you'll not find me 'advocating' such a plan. You will find me STATING my ingorance; I've made it clear I don't have the information and have asked for people who are advocating a different path to a medical professional to inform me of the basis for their advice. I have also provided the evidence I've seen.ETA3: @geebusuk - Just so I can be clear, are you seriously advocating the OP have a NET calorie intake of TWO HUNDRED calories per day? Seriously? TWO HUNDRED. And you see no problem with that? And you can't understand why everyone is explaining how dangerous it is? I just want to clarify because I want to know if you are naively misguided or merely irresponsibly ignorant.
If there is 'science' behind the claim it is dangerous, please do provide it. If actually no one can provide evidence to backup the rather strong words you are now using, I'd suggest you might want to be a little more careful when you're waving your 'ignorant' stick around!0 -
Not the Prove it card! Normally the sign of someone losing an argument. How about the common sense card. It's common sense that 200 calories a day NET will not be healthy if you can't see that without empirical research cross referenced stamped and peer reviewed etc I really worry about your personal safety. It's like saying prove to me jumping off a cliff will be bad for my health. I may not be able to give you lots of research but just look over the edge of the cliff it's obvious that's not going to be good for you.
If you'll take the time to read my posts, you'll not find me 'advocating' such a plan. You will find me STATING my ingorance; I've made it clear I don't have the information and have asked for people who are advocating a different path to a medical professional to inform me of the basis for their advice. I have also provided the evidence I've seen.ETA3: @geebusuk - Just so I can be clear, are you seriously advocating the OP have a NET calorie intake of TWO HUNDRED calories per day? Seriously? TWO HUNDRED. And you see no problem with that? And you can't understand why everyone is explaining how dangerous it is? I just want to clarify because I want to know if you are naively misguided or merely irresponsibly ignorant.
If there is 'science' behind the claim it is dangerous, please do provide it. If actually no one can provide evidence to backup the rather strong words you are now using, I'd suggest you might want to be a little more careful when you're waving your 'ignorant' stick around!0
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