Going vegan and maintaining protein intake.
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You don't have to avoid all animal products to lower your cholesterol. I hit 160g. or more of protein everyday and more than 1/2 of that comes from plant base protein. You only have about 28g. of fiber in your diary. Eat more complex carbs to bring your fiber up and that will help with the cholesterol. A complex carb is 2g. of fiber for every 100 calories. Fiber in itself is a carb but the body cant digest it or convert it to sugar. It passes through the digestive track and lowers your cholesterol. The body burns 7 cal. per gram of fiber trying to digest it. So eat your beans and lentils and veggies along with lean meats like fish, chicken etc. Dont be afraid of the extra carbs. Your actual carb intake will be carbohydrates minus fiber grams = net carbs.
I was worried about the shift in carbs, but this explanation makes it make more sense. I will focus on that as carbs are not my friend!0 -
To clear up a few things...no, my doctor's name is not Dr. Oz. This is not some fad that I came across on any web site and this isn't something I'm doing for animal rights reasons. This is, however, a result of having a Dr. that I like and trust. One who isn't a pill pusher - and yes, I have a real problem with those that are. Of course I could take a cholesterol lowering medication, but I've seen the affects on older family members from taking those types of medications and I don't think we fully know what all of this will do to us as we get older. So yes, if he suggests removing animal fats from my diet for 6 months to see if that makes a difference, I'm willing to try it. Yes, I'm frustrated because I thought I'd been doing everything the way I was supposed to do it and things went the other direction. I'm losing weight and still have more to lose but I'm not morbidly obese. I was simply looking to those who have chosen or been placed in the same position how they get their protein and I didn't ask for judgment from those that don't agree with this idea.
And thank you to the person who suggested getting a cardiologist. I do have a good one but for other reasons. He's on board with this idea as anything that will make your heart healthier is a good thing.
And thank you to those that have posted the food ideas and links and recipes. I will be trying all of it, I'm sure.
Just some antecdotal evidence of vegan helping. My Sister-in-law, her husband, and my hubby have all lost weight, (more than a hundred pounds between them), have lowered cholesterol, and are healthier now than they ever have been. I have lost weight and improved my numbers as well. It's not scientific, however, it has worked for the 4 of us. Now, we also eat whole foods as much as possible, and very limited processed foods. Oreos are vegan, but will not help you get where you want to be, in my opinion. Plant-based is healthy for most people. Research it. Look into studies by independent researchers.
If you want, you can also check out "Forks over Knives" and "Food, Inc." although both are biased towards plant-based. You can get plenty of protein eating plant foods. And you can be a strong healthy athlete eating only whole, plant-based foods. Read, read, read! Educate yourself. Know what you are putting into your body!0 -
Campbell.....defending the china study......lolI'm not here to get into a pissing contest, but I love it when someone says "well that's been debunked" and leaves no citations or source materials. Here's further information if you want to educate yourself further. The China Study "debunked" website (and BTW anyone can start a website) has also been "debunked" by such scholarly sites as "30 Bananas a day" but that's not the point. The Paleo folks have tried to debunk the study before, not sure if that's who you're referring to. But the Paleo diet was written by an English major (Denise Minger), while the China study was a Medical (Doctors) scholarly study. Even if you don't want to ascribe to that particular study, there are other studies that support the vegan diet which were accomplished at Universities such as Harvard, Vanderbilt, NYU, and NIH. Even some of the debunkers fundamentally agree with Campbell's assertions, just not with the way the data was used in the final product. And a number of the debunkers have potential profit motive or diet empire to defend.
Here's some information from Cornell University about the project that the book was written about and includes the scientific justification: http://web.archive.org/web/20090223222003/http://www.nutrition.cornell.edu/ChinaProject/#Scientific
Here's further information about the study and those who have "debunked it" including an examination of the study. It is part 1 of two parts. http://www.richroll.com/podcast/rrp-79-t-colin-campbell-china-study-critics-plant-based-nutrition-prevent-reverse-disease/
Bottom line, if you're going to educate yourself, or try to educate others, please do some homework. Personally, again, I don't care if you eat paleo, Adkins, something in between, or vegan...but at least make an informed choice.0 -
CHECK OUT THE FOLLOWING BOOKS: THE CHINA STUDY, ENGINE 2 DIET, WHOLE, ALL ARE ABOUT PLANT BASED EATING AND WILL HELP YOU FIGURE OUT THE PROTEIN... WHEN I STOPPED EATING MEAT AND DAIRY MY CHOLESTEROL WENT DOWN....0
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CHECK OUT THE FOLLOWING BOOKS: THE CHINA STUDY, ENGINE 2 DIET, WHOLE, ALL ARE ABOUT PLANT BASED EATING AND WILL HELP YOU FIGURE OUT THE PROTEIN... WHEN I STOPPED EATING MEAT AND DAIRY MY CHOLESTEROL WENT DOWN....
DID YOU ALSO...
*ahem*
(...sorry, let's try this again...)
Did you also happen to lose weight during this time when you stopped eating meat and dairy? Because that alone has been highly correlated with a decrease in cholesterol.
Also, isn't it a little simplistic to equate relatively lower cholesterol with better overall health? Are you certain that cholesterol is really the boogeyman some would have use believe it is?0 -
Did you also happen to lose weight during this time when you stopped eating meat and dairy? Because that alone has been highly correlated with a decrease in cholesterol.
Also, isn't it a little simplistic to equate relatively lower cholesterol with better overall health? Are you certain that cholesterol is really the boogeyman some would have use believe it is?
I lost 30 lbs one summer eating nothing but ice cream, mashed potatoes, and drinking ensure...amazing diet, you HAVE to do it...
Granted I was doing summer workouts for football (american), bass fishing 3-4 times a week for 5+ hours out of a jon boat with just a paddle, and playing tennis, but it was all about my 3 ingredient diet...0 -
It appears that about 75% of heart attach victims from a recent study seem to have average to low LDL and it would appear that higher cholesterol levels might be protective, but of course that can't be right because as we all know cholesterol kills.CHECK OUT THE FOLLOWING BOOKS: THE CHINA STUDY, ENGINE 2 DIET, WHOLE, ALL ARE ABOUT PLANT BASED EATING AND WILL HELP YOU FIGURE OUT THE PROTEIN... WHEN I STOPPED EATING MEAT AND DAIRY MY CHOLESTEROL WENT DOWN....
DID YOU ALSO...
*ahem*
(...sorry, let's try this again...)
Did you also happen to lose weight during this time when you stopped eating meat and dairy? Because that alone has been highly correlated with a decrease in cholesterol.
Also, isn't it a little simplistic to equate relatively lower cholesterol with better overall health? Are you certain that cholesterol is really the boogeyman some would have use believe it is?0 -
After my melt-down two months ago about going vegan and all of the helpful (and somewhat judgmental) support, I seem to have settled into a good place. Initially it was difficult making the transition and there is a TON of label reading that goes on. I've found some vegan protein powder that I like very much (tried some that tasted awful too) and the on I've settled on seems to have a good cross section of plant based protein sources and aminos,
I've dropped a few more pounds which I've really quit monitoring. I am much more focused on building muscle and less on "losing weight." It seems to be happening without worrying about it at this point.
The toughest things I've encountered in making the switch to vegan is:
1. Not overdoing the carbs! I don't worry too much if they're coming from fruits and veggies and I've found some great recipes and changed up my snack habits to fit.
2. Eating in a restaurant is a nightmare! Especially where we live, there aern't many choices for a vegan unless you get pasta and marinara sauce but the Mexican restaurant where we dine almost weekly has been great about accommodating my fajita veggies with broccoli, a side of guacamole, pico and corn tortillas way of ordering!
I'm not going to say that i haven't had a little bit of ice cream or an egg here and there, but 2 or 3 times in the last two months is pretty good in my book.
I guess it's like anything else, if you just work at it, it gets easier.0 -
Oh yeah...and I really miss cheese!0
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I'm jumping in late, and didn't read all the posts. But, I'm eating low fat, whole foods, 0 dietary cholesterol. It isn't totally vegan because I don't worry about the type of sugar that is in something (although I do try to avoid refined sugars) and not sure where vinegar stands on vegan / non-vegan, but do eat that. In about 2 weeks I'll be getting my next cholesterol testing so we'll see whether it helps.
Initially, I was worried about protein, but I researched it and it seems like I don't really have to worry about it as long as I get a good mix of grains, legumes, veggies, and fruit. I'm not a weight lifter though. However, I do believe you can manage your protein needs and quite possibly not even need protein powders. I suppose it depends on how much exercise you do.
Authors I've read:
Rip Esselstyn (engine 2 diet)
Caldwell Esselstyn, MD (Forks over Knives) father of guy above
Neal Barnard, MD (21 day weight loss kickstart, and reversing diabetes)
T. Colin Campbell (the China Study)
John McDougall, MD (McDougall Quick and easy cookbook).
I started with the engine 2 book and then started looking for the authors that he quoted. I suspect they have a bias toward veganism beyond just healthful eating, but hey, in the end it is your decision. Oh, and I have a friend that started eating this way about 2 years ago, she's lost about 50 pounds (although that wasn't her primary goal). She has managed to get off both cholesterol medications and blood pressure medications since starting this eating style. And she exercises by riding her bicycle to work (I think an hour each way, maybe a little more).
I too miss cheese, but I have noticed that my digestion, sinuses, and headaches have improved since eliminating dairy. I think the best part about this diet is that I don't have to count calories! I'm actually using this site now to track fiber and fat intake (trying to keep between 25 and 30 grams of fat per day right now).0 -
Oh, on that cookbook I listed, I've found that the spices are kinda low, so on pretty much every recipe, I ramp those up. But, follow the recipes in terms of main ingredients.0
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I'm sure your Dr. Has told you this, but some people are genetically predisposed to have high cholesterol, etc. Diet and exercise don't always change the numbers that much. Medication MAY be the answer.
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I agree, so I would get a second opinion.0 -
Diet and exercise may simply not help. Are you taking high cholesterol medication?0
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Vega makes great vegan protein powders. Formulated by a vegan triathlete.0
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I would get a second opinion.
Vegan does not mean healthy or lower cholesterol. My former roommate was a strict vegan and a fanatic about eating unprocessed foods and no dairy products whatsoever. She constantly lectured me about how much whole milk I drank, and the fact that I eat foie gras and lamb. She had a stroke... at the age of 23.
What I really don't understand is why your doctor would have you go vegan? Vegan means no bee pollen, no egg whites (which increase good cholesterol), no salmon or fish high in omega-3s. Why would you eliminate so many healthy foods? That just does not make sense.0 -
Vegan does not mean healthy or lower cholesterol. What I really don't understand is why your doctor would have you go vegan?
Very true. About the best example of this someone has told me is that soda, potato chips, and Oreos are all vegan. So, IMHO, the goal should be to be a "healthy vegan" (assuming someone is choosing to eat vegan). In the end, it is an individual's choice, and it can be done in a healthful way.Vegan means no bee pollen, no egg whites (which increase good cholesterol), no salmon or fish high in omega-3s. Why would you eliminate so many healthy foods? That just does not make sense.
I assume by "bee pollen" you mean honey. Agave Nectar is a non-animal based sweetener that is similar to honey. There is also maple syrup and molasses. All would be equally healthy as honey. But, with all, you need to watch the calories since they are basically sugar. Oatmeal, barley, beans, and soy all increase the good cholesterol. There are plenty of non-animal sources of omega 3's as well. Fish aren't required. Which is a really good thing, since I hate fish.0 -
I'd get a second opinion!!!0
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Vegan means no bee pollen, no egg whites (which increase good cholesterol), no salmon or fish high in omega-3s. Why would you eliminate so many healthy foods? That just does not make sense.
I assume by "bee pollen" you mean honey. Agave Nectar is a non-animal based sweetener that is similar to honey. There is also maple syrup and molasses. All would be equally healthy as honey. But, with all, you need to watch the calories since they are basically sugar. Oatmeal, barley, beans, and soy all increase the good cholesterol. There are plenty of non-animal sources of omega 3's as well. Fish aren't required. Which is a really good thing, since I hate fish.
Actually by "bee pollen" I mean bee pollen. Bee pollen contains vitamins, lipids, proteins, minerals, etc. and is not sweet, so it should not be confused with honey. Honey does not contain bee pollen.
You mention soy, although it does contain good cholesterol, it has been shown to have almost no impact on reducing bad cholesterol. At the same time, it opens up a host of other potential issues because of the high concentration of phytoestrogens, which can cause a number of problems. I would consume natural sources of protein versus highly processed soy protein isolate. In addition, soy is linked to thyroid issues, which can in turn cause issues with cholesterol.
I would look into potential causes of high cholesterol before assuming that diet is to blame. Kidney function, thyroid disease (specifically hypothyroidism) can both cause elevated cholesterol levels. And I would certainly not have someone eliminate all animal products from their diet when many of those same animal products are healthy and help to reduce bad cholesterol and increase good cholesterol.0 -
You're right, diet and exercise may not help, however, I never have had an issued with cholesterol until I started watching my protein intake - with that, I stared drinking protein shakes after my workout, eating more egg whites (rarely whole eggs) and adding in meat. I'm allergic to poultry so my choices were limited for lean meats.
I have never taken cholesterol lowering drugs and an working hard to avoid that. So finding other sources of protein besides animal based is the route that I've worked out with my doctor.0 -
You mention soy, although it does contain good cholesterol, it has been shown to have almost no impact on reducing bad cholesterol. At the same time, it opens up a host of other potential issues because of the high concentration of phytoestrogens, which can cause a number of problems. I would consume natural sources of protein versus highly processed soy protein isolate. In addition, soy is linked to thyroid issues, which can in turn cause issues with cholesterol.
I would look into potential causes of high cholesterol before assuming that diet is to blame. Kidney function, thyroid disease (specifically hypothyroidism) can both cause elevated cholesterol levels. And I would certainly not have someone eliminate all animal products from their diet when many of those same animal products are healthy and help to reduce bad cholesterol and increase good cholesterol.
You're right about the soy! I cannot do soy, I started to add in tofu - have you tried roasted tofu?! - however, soy is NOT my friend! and after a week or so of just feeling miserable, eliminated the soy and was back on track. All of the other things you mention have been ruled out.
What really surprises me is that so many people are so against eliminating animal products from your diet. This wasn't a decision that we came to lightly, I'm just trying it to see if it works and for someone else who may be thinking about making this change, I want to say it can be done.
I'm also not going to sit here and tell anyone that this is the end-all, be-all way to do things and if I wake up one day down the road and decide that I want a steak and baked potato with sour cream and butter...I'm going to have it. But what's wrong with trying something radical that may just make you healthier than you've ever been in your life?
Trust me, I'm not starving - I have great energy levels, I work out harder than I have in my life and I'm going on 50 years old! I have more muscle than I did when I was 20! I don't wake up in daily pain with swollen joints or creaky knees, I haven't had a bout of asthma or allergies this year which I've battled since I was a kid!
I'm not telling anyone else that they should do this! I'm just sharing what's working for me after I felt like the rug had been pulled out from under me a couple of months ago.0
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