Runners? Safety?
Replies
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People may call me whatever they want, I've run trails and country roads alone with no cell phone. Yeah, I creep myself out be it about the metal hair clip in a thunderstorm, or that guy with the broken down car, or the squirrel that makes enough noise to be a moose... So far, all of it has been in my head.
Worst thing that ever happened to me whilst running was people making fun of me.
Yet, statistically improbable, I had an egg thrown at me from a car, whilst I was walking my dog.
Yeah, bad things happen, but probably not when you expect them...0 -
And you're more likely to get zapped by lightning than to be attacked. It's the irrational effect of anecdotal "evidence" that makes you scared. If running outside is that scary, go hop on a treadmill at Planet Fitness.
One in six women gets zapped by lighting?
The chance of an average person living in the US being struck by lightning in a given year is estimated at 1 in 500,000, while the chance of being struck by lightning in a lifetime is 1 in 6250 (estimated lifespan of 80 years)
1 in 6 female runners get attacked while running?
Why don't you find the number of people who are struck by lightening while running and I will find the number that are attacked and we will see which one is bigger?
Here's mine:
http://sciencebasedrunning.com/2013/10/are-runners-likely-to-be-targets-of-violent-crime/
Can't open that one right now, but I think it's one that I've read before. Isn't it saying that violent acts against runners is very rare? I'm only going off the url so I can easily be mixing it up with another article I read recently
Its less rare than being injured in a car accident but more rare than being killed in one. Which isn't particularly rare - and we also avoid people who are driving erratically. It's even appropriate to call the police before they hurt somebody.
I'm read it later when I'm in my cpu. My phone is being a jerk right now. But by all means women (and men) should be aware of their surroundings and take proper precautions.
My main point is that in most of these threads, the only thing required for everyone to agree that women should be scared for their lives and call the authorities is that 1) there's a man in the trail, and 2) she's on the trail too. There's never an actual attack, just a chorus of people stating that if a woman doesn't like the look (or mere presence) of a man she absolutely should cross the street/call the cops/shoot him in the face.
Honest to God I'm sick and tired of having the cops called on me because I had the audacity to run in my own neighborhood. I walk from my house and they live far enough to have to drive there, but they are the ones acting like I don't belong.
That doesn't quite describe the OP.
The thing is that women are constantly being told that we are crazy and making this stuff up...until we aren't and then we should have been more careful and avoided the area/called the police.
ETA: I'm also tired of being warned about the dangers of after-dark activity. I'm 42 f'n years old. What do you want to do about it?
It never quite does, but that's mostly because the OP always gets to frame the parameters of the story. No one is going to purposely describe a situation in a way that puts them in a bad light.
But still, let's look at this one a bit closer. Broad daylight, public place, with her kids on bikes, in an area where other people are around and have clear lines of sight, and is in an area that likely only has one or two ways out so that 2 guys attacking or abducting a woman while her kids scream bloody murder are going to have their lic plates, description, direction headed and probably cell phone pics disseminated to the authorities within minutes of them committing a crime.
When we tell women to work out in a safe area, what would be better than this? What is the likelihood that 2 guys were planning to attack her under the circumstances she described? Yet merely coming into this thread and suggesting that she was probably OK gets me labeled as a troll and anti-female safety.
If they were security, they would have been in a clearly marked car with clear identification. When my mom was attacked with a guy with a knife, who tried to force her into his car, it was in broad daylight with other people around and right across the street from her apartment building. She still has the scars on her hand from that attack.
Your answer to this, is that women should be less vigilant because you've had to spend two minutes talking to the cops a few times.0 -
Seriously ladies, cover it up a little. I know someone's going to call this slut-shaming, but it's just common sense. If you've got 90% of your body exposed or even are wearing totally skintight clothing then yes, you will attract more attention than a woman in less revealing clothes. I'm not saying you automatically become safe by dressing more modestly, but it's just one more little safety step you can take.
To the OP: I'm not sure why anyone would find running in a cemetery disrespectful as long as there's no funeral happening. The people below the ground don't care: they're dead. It's the living you need to worry about, and as long as you don't bother them, they shouldn't be bothered by you.
Clothing works with lions and wild dogs too.0 -
I don't think you are anti-safety. And I get what you are saying. And honestly, now a day later and calmed down, you are right. I was safe enough probably. But I didn't panic, I didn't run screaming to my car and roll out tires squealing, I didn't call the police. I pretended they didn't bother me, and went about my business while keeping an eye on them. But It did creep me out then, because I started thinking what if crap in my head. And it made me wonder if I should have handled it differently.
But I am not the kind of woman who instantly thinks all men are murdering rapists. If I passed you, jogging down the street, and we pass each other and you give the "hey-hows it going" head nod, it wouldn't bother me a bit. I would nod back and keep going. It wouldnt bother me a bit if we happened to be in the same parking lot, tying our shoes or something, and you struck up a conversation. But there is a line between being a friendly person, and being a creeper. The first time they passed and kind of waved, no big deal, that's what people do. The second time they passed and slowed and I watched them watch me as they went by, and even further through the side view mirror, okay that was creepy. The third time, when they actually stopped in my path and got out, and I had to stop short and change direction to avoid passing them within arms reach, that was crossing the line. That place is very large, there are 6 lanes that cut across, and two lanes going down each side. They didn't have to choose mine each time. That's the part that worried me.
But I do get what you are saying, for the most part, yeah it was not a cool thing for them to do, but they weren't going to abduct and murder me in full view of witnesses.
And I don't think you were the one who said it, but in reference to the pp about "slut shaming" and women should be decent and all that. For the record on that, I was decent, no short shorts, and no boobage on display. I have little girls that I have to set examples for. And I'm trying to do that by showing them to have respect for themselves and their bodies, and to be strong and healthy.0 -
I don't think I would run there anymore. Not because I think running in a cemetery is bad (I wouldn't do it, it's not really a "thing" people do here) but because it's too secluded. This is a very bad thing.
I run only on public streets, heavily trafficked ones.
We have a great running (trail) park here that I love love love to run at. But, we had a jogger across town get stabbed while at a similar park and that's all it took for my husband to tell me NO (he's a sheriff so, he is super conservative on where I run without him).
As long as you run towards traffic and keep your eyes peeled for cars turning, you will be much safer in the long run then running at a semi secluded cemetery.
ETA that I was attacked by a large breed dog and was able to defend myself with just my body. It was inside my neighborhood prior to hitting the streets.
I would be more worried about animals (as long as you are on a busy street) than a person attacking you.0 -
Seriously ladies, cover it up a little. I know someone's going to call this slut-shaming, but it's just common sense. If you've got 90% of your body exposed or even are wearing totally skintight clothing then yes, you will attract more attention than a woman in less revealing clothes. I'm not saying you automatically become safe by dressing more modestly, but it's just one more little safety step you can take.
To the OP: I'm not sure why anyone would find running in a cemetery disrespectful as long as there's no funeral happening. The people below the ground don't care: they're dead. It's the living you need to worry about, and as long as you don't bother them, they shouldn't be bothered by you.
the 1800s called and they want their Victorian Age mindset back0 -
Your answer to this, is that women should be less vigilant because you've had to spend two minutes talking to the cops a few times.
try answering "what are you doing here" to men with guns and badges from the time you are 12 till the time you die and get back to me on if it's a big deal or not.0 -
Seriously ladies, cover it up a little. I know someone's going to call this slut-shaming, but it's just common sense. If you've got 90% of your body exposed or even are wearing totally skintight clothing then yes, you will attract more attention than a woman in less revealing clothes. I'm not saying you automatically become safe by dressing more modestly, but it's just one more little safety step you can take.
To the OP: I'm not sure why anyone would find running in a cemetery disrespectful as long as there's no funeral happening. The people below the ground don't care: they're dead. It's the living you need to worry about, and as long as you don't bother them, they shouldn't be bothered by you.
First post. I call troll on this one.0 -
Seriously ladies, cover it up a little. I know someone's going to call this slut-shaming, but it's just common sense. If you've got 90% of your body exposed or even are wearing totally skintight clothing then yes, you will attract more attention than a woman in less revealing clothes. I'm not saying you automatically become safe by dressing more modestly, but it's just one more little safety step you can take.
To the OP: I'm not sure why anyone would find running in a cemetery disrespectful as long as there's no funeral happening. The people below the ground don't care: they're dead. It's the living you need to worry about, and as long as you don't bother them, they shouldn't be bothered by you.
the 1800s called and they want their Victorian Age mindset back
^ This. Seriously.0 -
And you're more likely to get zapped by lightning than to be attacked. It's the irrational effect of anecdotal "evidence" that makes you scared. If running outside is that scary, go hop on a treadmill at Planet Fitness.
I don't know what denomination they are. It really doesn't matter. The pastor's wife comes there to walk. She said the way they see it is that if they allow kids/families to be there, then at least they are on safe streets and not on the back roads were traffic is uncontrolled and they are at risk for getting injured. She said their board (of deacons or directors??) voted on it and it was agreed, and as long as people were respectful and there was no vandalism, they would continue to allow it.
But in any case, there is no PF within 75 miles of me. If there was, it sounds great, $10/month and pizza on Mondays. Heck yeah, I'm in.
But seriously, there is only one gym in my area and I can't really afford a membership right now. Which is why have been trying new, free, out of doors things for my fitness.
So, thanks for your input.0 -
Your answer to this, is that women should be less vigilant because you've had to spend two minutes talking to the cops a few times.
try answering "what are you doing here" to men with guns and badges from the time you are 12 till the time you die and get back to me on if it's a big deal or not.
I've had the cops follow me home after I circled the neighborhood a few times because it was the only way to get them down. So, yeah. I've had to explain out of the ordinary behavior to the cops.0 -
Davpul does have a point with his posts...and I am going to have to side with him on this debate. The circumstances of the OP being followed are during the optimum place and time to run. She had several people around who could help, identify or curb the situation had it turned dangerous. And while the OP stated that the graveyard is open for recreational use...I have to wonder how many people truly use it for that purpose and how many people truly know that it can be used for that type of purpose. After all...the very first response posts were of people questioning my the OP was running in that type of environement...presuming those people questioning were wondering about the respectfullness of it.
There is only so much safety you can do. I live in one of the most crime driven cities in the country...but still feel safe out on the road running by myself. I don't wear my head phones that often, I run in common areas and usually I am with my running group. I keep good situational awareness to everything that is around me.
And Dav...I do get your point of view...especially with the racist steriotyping you have probably been subjected to over the course of your life time.
OP...the best advise I can give you is to just stay vigilant. It is quite possible that not everyone knows that you can use that graveyard for recreational activities. It is possible that the van was ground workers who are being extra vigilant themselves and so a miss communication on intentions on both your parts. If you still feel ackward then shift up where you were running and go to a public park for a bit. That is one thing that I always do...change up my running schedule/route/times so that I am unpredictable.0 -
Your answer to this, is that women should be less vigilant because you've had to spend two minutes talking to the cops a few times.
try answering "what are you doing here" to men with guns and badges from the time you are 12 till the time you die and get back to me on if it's a big deal or not.
I've had the cops follow me home after I circled the neighborhood a few times because it was the only way to get them down. So, yeah. I've had to explain out of the ordinary behavior to the cops.
He said SINCE YOU WERE 12, so like for decades. Not for just one day that one time when your kids couldn't sleep and good old cousin Hal pulled you over and you all got a giggle at why you were out in your nightie and rollers with the babies in carseats.
That's a HELL of a lot different from how men on foot get questioned, DON'T even try to compare, I see it everyday in the city I live. You are SO OFF BASE it's appalling and ridiculous and I don't say this often but I'm gonna say it right now you really should just refrain from this point on about this particular point.
My story... one time when I was shopping for makeup at Nordstrom a plainclothes security worker was looking at me, yeah TOTES THE SAME!!!...not!0 -
Your answer to this, is that women should be less vigilant because you've had to spend two minutes talking to the cops a few times.
try answering "what are you doing here" to men with guns and badges from the time you are 12 till the time you die and get back to me on if it's a big deal or not.
I've had the cops follow me home after I circled the neighborhood a few times because it was the only way to get them down. So, yeah. I've had to explain out of the ordinary behavior to the cops.
I don't think you can even compare the two. Davpul is talking about systematically and routinely having to explain *perfectly ordinary behavior.* He's not saying one time a cop gave him a hard time. He's saying consistently for his entire teenage-adult life, he's had to explain why he's doing things like walking down his own street or shopping at the mall.
I don't have any idea what that's like and I'm willing to admit as much.
eta: Also I don't think he was saying that women shouldn't have situational awareness. At least I didn't see him say anything of the kind.0 -
Have we finally come to the conclusion that good judgment and common sense are not so common?0
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Seriously ladies, cover it up a little. I know someone's going to call this slut-shaming, but it's just common sense. If you've got 90% of your body exposed or even are wearing totally skintight clothing then yes, you will attract more attention than a woman in less revealing clothes. I'm not saying you automatically become safe by dressing more modestly, but it's just one more little safety step you can take.
Men and little kids, as well as women who are wearing burkas, flannelette PJ's and winter clothes that cover up nearly everything, are raped every single day so don't pull that **** with me. Repeat after me: The only people to blame for assault are the people who commit the assault. Jesus wept. Wearing clothes that are comfortable to run in is "common sense". If a man can't control his "urges", that's his effed up psychology and has nothing to do with the woman. God, I hate that this is still a thing! There is absolutely NO evidence to suggest a correlation between what a woman is wearing and the likelihood that she will be assaulted.
I get that this was supposed to be a benign and 'helpful' comment, but if we followed every single guideline to avoid being raped, every woman everywhere would be a layer-wearing, anti-social, gun toting hermit with a security system, partner and big dog. How about this? We create a culture where we teach MEN not to rape, not women how to NOT be raped.0 -
Seriously ladies, cover it up a little. I know someone's going to call this slut-shaming, but it's just common sense. If you've got 90% of your body exposed or even are wearing totally skintight clothing then yes, you will attract more attention than a woman in less revealing clothes. I'm not saying you automatically become safe by dressing more modestly, but it's just one more little safety step you can take.
Men and little kids, as well as women who are wearing burkas, flannelette PJ's and winter clothes that cover up nearly everything, are raped every single day so don't pull that **** with me. Repeat after me: The only people to blame for assault are the people who commit the assault. Jesus wept. Wearing clothes that are comfortable to run in is "common sense". If a man can't control his "urges", that's his effed up psychology and has nothing to do with the woman. God, I hate that this is still a thing! There is absolutely NO evidence to suggest a correlation between what a woman is wearing and the likelihood that she will be assaulted.
I get that this was supposed to be a benign and 'helpful' comment, but if we followed every single guideline to avoid being raped, every woman everywhere would be a layer-wearing, anti-social, gun toting hermit with a security system, partner and big dog. How about this? We create a culture where we teach MEN not to rape, not women how to NOT be raped.
Oh good. This was the last ingredient we needed to step away from good judgment and common sense, and hop right into the morass of gender stereotyping, racial profiling, and BSC paranoia. Good thing I have my cup of coffee in hand . . .0 -
I tend to avoid the places that don't have a lot of people.. Even if I have to run around slow people or constantly changing street lights.0
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Dogs are the trouble for me. It's like I'm a dog magnet. I start running and they come out of nowhere and chase me. That is at the park by the way, not when I'm street running lol.0
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This has been a really thought-provoking thread to read. I live in a very rural area which is a mix of farmland, woods, swamps, rivers, and a pretty low population. My biggest threat out here is probably wildlife. There are a fair amount of black bear, deer, moose etc. Not to mention dogs. What has helped my confidence is having thought out some "worst case scenarios" in regards to each individual animal. I have no problem kicking a dog in the face if it goes for me, and I turn around the second I see a moose. Black bear and deer startle pretty easy and haven't been that much of a problem. I'm glad to not live in fear of these things, and don't feel it necessary to carry any sort of protection.
As far as people are concerned, I live in a safe area were random violence is pretty isolated. That being said, I used to work with a very violent population, and have extensive training on defending myself. I have a lot of experience putting that training into action. I also used to compete in martial arts. I think these things naturally empower me to not be so fearful. If I'm out running and a car slows down near me, I make eye contact with the driver to see what's up, but I don't really get weirded out. Usually it's something innocuous like giving me enough room on a narrow road, or swerving around a puddle to not splash me. Maybe sometimes people do check me out but whatever.
As a side note, do any ladies remember hearing talks in school about rape? I don't remember what class it was apart of, but I do remember hearing about it in school. I just remember being told stuff like what to do after the rape and getting to the hospital so they can get a DNA sample. I remember the attitude being that if someone tried to rape you, it was an almost certainty that it would happen. I never heard about defending yourself. My hope is that if I was ever in that situation, my priority would be to extract the person's eyeball for a DNA sample. I just never remember putting up a fight being apart of the information and wonder what other people's experiences were.0 -
Have we finally come to the conclusion that good judgment and common sense are not so common?
Yes. Yes, we have.0 -
Wow, page 1 of this thread sure looks different than it used to? GracieLynn was that your doing?0
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I'd definitely go with the pepper spray. I run in the riddle of nowhere, so I take it mostly for the coyotes, but it still gives me peace of mind. It's also not heavy and doesn't bother me when I run (I have one that just clips on to my pants or a shirt pocket).0
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Wow, page 1 of this thread sure looks different than it used to? GracieLynn was that your doing?
What are you talking about?0 -
You are having a noisy family outing AT A CEMETERY. Harsh looks are justified.0
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Wow, page 1 of this thread sure looks different than it used to? GracieLynn was that your doing?
What are you talking about?
One of my posts was deleted. Obviously if you don't know what I'm talking about it wasn't you that reported it. I suspected it was that other lady anyways.
I really can't imagine on what grounds she reported it and it got deleted though? Oh well, c'est la vie.0 -
You know that saying "just because it's legal doesn't make it right" ? It seems to apply here. You've gotten lots of hi fivers that it's okay and welcomed to do your thing at the cemetary and clearly the owners of that one condone and promote it. Hopefully this thread shed some light that not everyone feels that way, and I hope you'lll consider that this MAY have been a part of what went on that day. Obviously it's good to keep your wits about you and there is still a chance those guys meant ill. Bottom line is I'm glad you got home okay with your kids. That's the important part. You'll figure it out where and when to workout. Are there parks in the area to take the kids to?
I'm just thinking if the local media and authorities were involved and concerned enough to issue warnings and options like this, they might have enought impetus to budget for some workout friendly parks, you know the kind with trails for running and workout equipment every so often on the route? Just an idea. :flowerforyou:0 -
Oh, I hadn't been back on the first page to see that anything had changed. I have never bothered with reporting posts, I didn't think anything said was offensive. And even if it was, it's just the internet right? Lol.
There are some small parks with just small play ground equipment. Not really suitable for bikes and such. I am going to a friends neighborhood next time, she has already talked to their neighborhood watch about it, so I'm good to go.0 -
Whoa, the two people you saw were definitely sketchy. I would alert local police about your experience. Police may not (be able to ) do anything about it, but it only helps when multiple people report other people doing something sketchy.
As for safety... I don't carry anything (other than some blinking lights if I'm running in early morning or late evening). I don't carry my phone or pepper spray because they're extra weight I'd rather not carry. But if I'm running place or time where and during which safety is a concern, I pay extra attention. I may not bring music with me or if I do, keep the volume super low. I'll look around me every now and then. I make sure to run well-lit areas, and areas that I know I can run to escape to (e.g. stores that are open late/early). It may not be the safest thing, but I find that trusting my instinct is a pretty good thing. If I sense someone or something alarming, I avoid it. They may not be sketchy at all, but better safe than sorry. I think you did the right thing by avoiding them.0 -
I have heard of people running in cemeteries. It never occurred to me that it would be "disrespectful". What do I care if someone is running where one of my loved ones is burried? But I think everyone is so hung up on WHERE the OP was running, the point of the post is getting missed. WHAT should runners do to feel safe??? I run on my lunch break and I run down a little side street that isn't quite a street. It is along some business buildings. I have had two people stop and ask me directions. (This is road mainly for people to get to their parking lots for the business buildings - not really a "road"). One was a FedEx guy (shouldn't he have GPS??) and the other was a couple looking for one of the buisiness buildings around the corner. The couple didn't make me nervous... but the big guy in the FedEx van - he didn't do or say anything sketchy, it just made me wonder about my safety.
Are you serious? Fed-ex guy made you nervous. Granted he has GPS but if I see a woman running my 1st impression is she is from the neighborhood or knows the neighborhood pretty well to point me to my destination that I'm jus' unable to locate.
Your logic is ridiculous. Besides he didn't even talk to you or say anything.
Do you know how difficult it is to get a Fed-ex or UPS job and what kind of rigorous background check goes into hiring the individual. Try submitting an application and see you get the job. One traffic ticket and your application would be thrown in trash.
My best suggestion for your safety - hop on threadmill and/or run in place at home, woman. It's not fair to be suspicious of hard working people jus' about sincerely doing their job.
Edited - still laughing at your fear of Big Fed-ex guy. Ridiculous. Something is wrong in your approach.0
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