Slow Loss - Confused - PCOS

psuLemon

Nope. I believe it's from the CDC, but I can't quite remember off top my head. It's estimated that 8.3% of US adults have diabetes and something like 35.3% have prediabetes. I know for those with diabetes, they believe that one third don't know it yet. I'm not sure what the amount for those estimated to have prediabetes and don't know what yet is. I'll see if I can find the article.

"From the beginning of the article.
Total: 25.8 million people, or 8.3% of the U.S. population, have diabetes.
Diagnosed: 18.8 million people
Undiagnosed: 7.0 million people


In 2005−2008, based on fasting glucose or A1c levels, 35% of U.S. adults aged 20 years or older had prediabetes (50% of those aged 65 years or older). Applying this percentage to the entire U.S. population in 2010 yields an estimated 79 million Americans aged 20 years or older with prediabetes.


That 35% doesn't have diabetes.. they are at risk of developing diabetes. But footnote: The diagnostic criteria for diabetes and prediabetes have changed over time. They are currently based on the results of 3 blood tests—the fasting blood glucose test, the oral glucose tolerance test, and the hemoglobin A1c test. All of these tests identify people with diabetes or at risk of developing diabetes. However, the number of people that these tests identify and their characteristics vary between the 3 tests. For example, A1c varies by race/ethnicity independent of blood glucose levels. The implications of demographic differences in estimates of undiagnosed diabetes and prediabetes when using different laboratory tests are not known."

So while I don't disagree, people have to be a little more concern, but just because someone is at risk of diabetes, doesn't mean they have it. Its not different than me having an increase chance of developing skin cancer because it runs in my family, so I wear sunblock.

yarwell

The first law requires a closed system and the body is not a closed system.

You can do 1st law analysis over any system boundaries. Energy in = Energy out + Accumulation.

It's just a question of definitions.

lindsey1979

Nope. I believe it's from the CDC, but I can't quite remember off top my head. It's estimated that 8.3% of US adults have diabetes and something like 35.3% have prediabetes. I know for those with diabetes, they believe that one third don't know it yet. I'm not sure what the amount for those estimated to have prediabetes and don't know what yet is. I'll see if I can find the article.

"From the beginning of the article.
Total: 25.8 million people, or 8.3% of the U.S. population, have diabetes.
Diagnosed: 18.8 million people
Undiagnosed: 7.0 million people


In 2005−2008, based on fasting glucose or A1c levels, 35% of U.S. adults aged 20 years or older had prediabetes (50% of those aged 65 years or older). Applying this percentage to the entire U.S. population in 2010 yields an estimated 79 million Americans aged 20 years or older with prediabetes.


That 35% doesn't have diabetes.. they are at risk of developing diabetes. But footnote: The diagnostic criteria for diabetes and prediabetes have changed over time. They are currently based on the results of 3 blood tests—the fasting blood glucose test, the oral glucose tolerance test, and the hemoglobin A1c test. All of these tests identify people with diabetes or at risk of developing diabetes. However, the number of people that these tests identify and their characteristics vary between the 3 tests. For example, A1c varies by race/ethnicity independent of blood glucose levels. The implications of demographic differences in estimates of undiagnosed diabetes and prediabetes when using different laboratory tests are not known."

So while I don't disagree, people have to be a little more concern, but just because someone is at risk of diabetes, doesn't mean they have it. Its not different than me having an increase chance of developing skin cancer because it runs in my family, so I wear sunblock.

Right. That's why I said over 40% of American adults have diabetes and prediabetes -- not just diabetes. That's what this shows, right?

UrbanLotus

You have lost weight...normal healthy loss is 1-2lbs a week an you are within that. I have PCOS too and it is unbelievably slow - last month I only lost 1.4lbs and I am meticulous about it too! Just keep at it, slow and steady wins.

lindsey1979

The first law requires a closed system and the body is not a closed system.

You can do 1st law analysis over any system boundaries. Energy in = Energy out + Accumulation.

It's just a question of definitions.

But don't you need a way to capture/measure all of that energy? For example, we certainly give off energy in the form of body heat -- and some of that is captured by the calories burned/expended to heat the body, but is it all captured that way? I don't know, but I thought that was why a closed system was important. Perhaps someone with greater physics skills than me can explain -- I may be off on this.

psuLemon

Nope. I believe it's from the CDC, but I can't quite remember off top my head. It's estimated that 8.3% of US adults have diabetes and something like 35.3% have prediabetes. I know for those with diabetes, they believe that one third don't know it yet. I'm not sure what the amount for those estimated to have prediabetes and don't know what yet is. I'll see if I can find the article.

"From the beginning of the article.
Total: 25.8 million people, or 8.3% of the U.S. population, have diabetes.
Diagnosed: 18.8 million people
Undiagnosed: 7.0 million people


In 2005−2008, based on fasting glucose or A1c levels, 35% of U.S. adults aged 20 years or older had prediabetes (50% of those aged 65 years or older). Applying this percentage to the entire U.S. population in 2010 yields an estimated 79 million Americans aged 20 years or older with prediabetes.


That 35% doesn't have diabetes.. they are at risk of developing diabetes. But footnote: The diagnostic criteria for diabetes and prediabetes have changed over time. They are currently based on the results of 3 blood tests—the fasting blood glucose test, the oral glucose tolerance test, and the hemoglobin A1c test. All of these tests identify people with diabetes or at risk of developing diabetes. However, the number of people that these tests identify and their characteristics vary between the 3 tests. For example, A1c varies by race/ethnicity independent of blood glucose levels. The implications of demographic differences in estimates of undiagnosed diabetes and prediabetes when using different laboratory tests are not known."

So while I don't disagree, people have to be a little more concern, but just because someone is at risk of diabetes, doesn't mean they have it. Its not different than me having an increase chance of developing skin cancer because it runs in my family, so I wear sunblock.

Right. That's why I said over 40% of American adults have diabetes and prediabetes -- not just diabetes. That's what this shows, right?

But prediabetes =/= diabetes. Prediabetes = a warning or potential issue that can be quickly mitigated. And if you are going to talk statistics, you can't include the maybes. That doesn't even include the fact that the way it's measured varies. You would be right to say that 8.3% actually have diabetes, but to assume the other 35% have or will have diabetes is an assumption. Also, keep in mind that governments use this statistics to get funding. It's a lot easy to get funding when there is a possible chance of 40% of people could have it or might get it as compared to only 8.3% of people have it.

jenmom2myboys

In looking at your diary you are not even coming close to your daily goal.

smushymushy85

I have pcos .. and endo and ive lost 250 lbs ... what worked for me is whole foods and cardio
I eat everything fat carbs protien sugars .. I limit my processed and refined food
nothing in a box or a can no bleached or unbleached flour no granulated or brown sugar (unless it is raw and unprocessed ) but any recipe that calls for sugar can be imporvised (honey molasses apple sauce bananas)
Processed foods include low fat and fat free ( everyone has their opinion however do some research newer studies are showing low fat and fat free foods can infact lead to heart diseas and cancers)
I dont eat anything with less than 2 % mf and I try to avoid margarine sometimes I use it but typically stick with butter
Do your research on the glycimic index certain foods we think are healthy *rice cakes* are.really not

I eat my daily intake of carbs which is around 200g however like someone else said I try not to go over about 40g in a meal
And I eat frequently every 2 -3 hours and try eating majority of your calories before6pm with a light snack like some soup or something after that

And watch birthcontrol people with pcos tend to take bc to help hormones however In my experience I didnt start losing weight untillI went off them and about 8 months ago went back on and gained back 3 lbs . I stopped taking them last montj and already back down 9 lbs so if you take bc pills maybe come off them for a bit and see how that goes ?

Carnivor0us

Nope. I believe it's from the CDC, but I can't quite remember off top my head. It's estimated that 8.3% of US adults have diabetes and something like 35.3% have prediabetes. I know for those with diabetes, they believe that one third don't know it yet. I'm not sure what the amount for those estimated to have prediabetes and don't know what yet is. I'll see if I can find the article.

"From the beginning of the article.
Total: 25.8 million people, or 8.3% of the U.S. population, have diabetes.
Diagnosed: 18.8 million people
Undiagnosed: 7.0 million people


In 2005−2008, based on fasting glucose or A1c levels, 35% of U.S. adults aged 20 years or older had prediabetes (50% of those aged 65 years or older). Applying this percentage to the entire U.S. population in 2010 yields an estimated 79 million Americans aged 20 years or older with prediabetes.


That 35% doesn't have diabetes.. they are at risk of developing diabetes. But footnote: The diagnostic criteria for diabetes and prediabetes have changed over time. They are currently based on the results of 3 blood tests—the fasting blood glucose test, the oral glucose tolerance test, and the hemoglobin A1c test. All of these tests identify people with diabetes or at risk of developing diabetes. However, the number of people that these tests identify and their characteristics vary between the 3 tests. For example, A1c varies by race/ethnicity independent of blood glucose levels. The implications of demographic differences in estimates of undiagnosed diabetes and prediabetes when using different laboratory tests are not known."

So while I don't disagree, people have to be a little more concern, but just because someone is at risk of diabetes, doesn't mean they have it. Its not different than me having an increase chance of developing skin cancer because it runs in my family, so I wear sunblock.

Right. That's why I said over 40% of American adults have diabetes and prediabetes -- not just diabetes. That's what this shows, right?

But prediabetes =/= diabetes. Prediabetes = a warning or potential issue that can be quickly mitigated. And if you are going to talk statistics, you can't include the maybes. That doesn't even include the fact that the way it's measured varies. You would be right to say that 8.3% actually have diabetes, but to assume the other 35% have or will have diabetes is an assumption. Also, keep in mind that governments use this statistics to get funding. It's a lot easy to get funding when there is a possible chance of 40% of people could have it or might get it as compared to only 8.3% of people have it.

Except that a lot of people DON'T mitigate it until they finally develop full-blown diabetes. And CICO by itself doesn't always curb the risk. Including pre-diabetics in these stats is relevent.

Also, lets be clear that we're discussing Type 2s or potential Type 2s that can actually do something about it. That 8.3% shouldn't include Type 1s.

lindsey1979

Nope. I believe it's from the CDC, but I can't quite remember off top my head. It's estimated that 8.3% of US adults have diabetes and something like 35.3% have prediabetes. I know for those with diabetes, they believe that one third don't know it yet. I'm not sure what the amount for those estimated to have prediabetes and don't know what yet is. I'll see if I can find the article.

"From the beginning of the article.
Total: 25.8 million people, or 8.3% of the U.S. population, have diabetes.
Diagnosed: 18.8 million people
Undiagnosed: 7.0 million people


In 2005−2008, based on fasting glucose or A1c levels, 35% of U.S. adults aged 20 years or older had prediabetes (50% of those aged 65 years or older). Applying this percentage to the entire U.S. population in 2010 yields an estimated 79 million Americans aged 20 years or older with prediabetes.


That 35% doesn't have diabetes.. they are at risk of developing diabetes. But footnote: The diagnostic criteria for diabetes and prediabetes have changed over time. They are currently based on the results of 3 blood tests—the fasting blood glucose test, the oral glucose tolerance test, and the hemoglobin A1c test. All of these tests identify people with diabetes or at risk of developing diabetes. However, the number of people that these tests identify and their characteristics vary between the 3 tests. For example, A1c varies by race/ethnicity independent of blood glucose levels. The implications of demographic differences in estimates of undiagnosed diabetes and prediabetes when using different laboratory tests are not known."

So while I don't disagree, people have to be a little more concern, but just because someone is at risk of diabetes, doesn't mean they have it. Its not different than me having an increase chance of developing skin cancer because it runs in my family, so I wear sunblock.

Right. That's why I said over 40% of American adults have diabetes and prediabetes -- not just diabetes. That's what this shows, right?

But prediabetes =/= diabetes. Prediabetes = a warning or potential issue that can be quickly mitigated. And if you are going to talk statistics, you can't include the maybes. That doesn't even include the fact that the way it's measured varies. You would be right to say that 8.3% actually have diabetes, but to assume the other 35% have or will have diabetes is an assumption. Also, keep in mind that governments use this statistics to get funding. It's a lot easy to get funding when there is a possible chance of 40% of people could have it or might get it as compared to only 8.3% of people have it.

I understand that there is a difference, but I think the differentiation used (at least in this example) has to do with insulin resistance levels. At a certain range, they go from normal (below 5.6) to pre-diabetes (5.7-6.4), then if they get high enough (6.5+), it's considered diabetes. So, pre-diabetes isn't just a "warning sign", it's a lower level of insulin resistance which is still higher than the normal range. Considering insulin resistance makes losing weight harder, especially in regard to carb consumption, this is not an insignificant thing.

I wasn't saying that all 40+% will get diabetes, but currently over 40% of people either have diabetes OR prediabetes (and the elevated insulin resistance levels). If you go back and look at my initial statement, you'll see that.

yarwell

The first law requires a closed system and the body is not a closed system.

You can do 1st law analysis over any system boundaries. Energy in = Energy out + Accumulation.

It's just a question of definitions.

But don't you need a way to capture/measure all of that energy? For example, we certainly give off energy in the form of body heat -- and some of that is captured by the calories burned/expended to heat the body, but is it all captured that way? I don't know, but I thought that was why a closed system was important. Perhaps someone with greater physics skills than me can explain -- I may be off on this.

The definition of the law - closed system or otherwise - is a different thing to how you go about measuring a particular case.

A metabolic chamber study does indeed allow you to determine all of the energy flows from a body within that chamber, as the airflows in/out can be measured and analysed, but it isn't a "closed system" but a contained system with flows in and out - an open system. http://www.learnengineering.org/2013/03/frist-law-of-thermodynamics-open-system.html may help.

helengetshealthy

Congrats on that amazing loss smushymushy, and to the OP I know this isn't as helpful as all the other more science-y answers but I know the feeling of having that huge loss at the start on an unsustainable diet like the low carb - I'm not saying no-one can ever keep up a low carb diet because some people have but it's really hard. So when you see 2, even 1.5lbs a week at your current weight you think you're not seeing the right results but you are. Something I read on the PCOS boards was how PCOS ladies should use the testosterone thing to their advantage by weight training, again I don't fully understand the science behind it but I can tell you that I have never been into hardcore cardio but I like lifting weights and doing resistance training; not only do a see something of a change in my figure when I do it regularly, but I also feel like a total boss hahaha, I think it's important to configure your healthy lifestyle around what you enjoy. I like walking and lifting weights, and I really, REALLY love food, so right now I am doing that (somewhat) controversial 5:2 diet, which has results in 7lbs in one month lost, which I'm very happy with and I find this regime sustainable for me as I am able to do some great workouts on the days when I'm not fasting.

I would highly recommend lifting weights more often, and also in case it hasn't already been said - don't rely on the scale so much, it will fluctuate too much. When I started 5:2 I weighed every week, but now I know that it is doing something, I'm weighing every fortnight, it doesn't bother me too much because I'm starting to feel better and more confident about my efforts. Good luck, you can absolutely do it, it sometimes just takes time for people to find what works for them.

Fuzzipeg

From all the reading I have done in recent months I have come to realise PCOS and many other health issues like CF, FM Diabetes, IBS, are probable the result of hormonal imbalance. Sugar absorption is a problem in part because there is so much more available to us, but also because all foods break down into many different sugars to be absorbed at their own specific point in the digestive tract. This is a very complicated subject.

My personal issue is with salicylate. Most plants use this substance to protect themselves from moulds and mildews. We use it as aspirin. We know too much of it is toxic but what we are never told is that it is present in every day foods. Too much in a persons system will cause many different problems, breathing issues, joint pain,(I was on walking sticks and am now pain free) Skin rashes, mood issues can all be contributed to by this substance to a greater or lesser extent depending on how sensitive you have become. Many doctors have never heard of Salicylate Sensitivity, it is very real. I never have olive oil, fruit juices, vanilla, or tomato purée,cornflour and much much more because I have learned what it helps to avoid. I am healthier at 64 than I was at 44, and I'm not through yet.

I read on a national thyroid support site that salicylate sensitivity can over time make the thyroid work less well which can then back up the general system to different seeming less related systems. This as I was told is at the cutting edge of science as I was told by an immunologist. Thyroid issues are often at the base of menstrual problems though patients are told there thyroid hormones are in the normal range. Please read all you can on the thyroid. The national thyroid support sites are good. "Stop the thyroid madness", "STTM" is very good you can read how to understand the numbers and how many doctors are less knowledgeable than they could be, but they do have so much to know about these days. Thyroid issues are regularly under diagnosed as is diabetes.

There is a salicylate sensitive site too I would recommend reducing ones intake, rather than the try for total elimination and add back, there is a fairly good list of problem foods taken from the work of the Australian Dietitian whose name escapes me for the moment. She is Ann Swane with colleagues.

All the best

ndj1979

if CICO is BS then how did you lose 5 pounds in a month?

Obviously, you have a medical condition so you are going to have to work hard to create a calorie deficit then "normal" people. This does no mean that calories in vs calories out does not apply. With moderate calorie deficit and some kind of work out regimen you can and will lose weight.

And at the end of the day what is wrong with 1 pound per week loss?

Fuzzipeg

PCOS is a medical condition. It helps to look at what you are eating at a more complex level not just any old calorie being worth the same as any other, it is a question of gaining the right nutrition for your body's situation. In other words Do what is right for You and this may be for you alone in any one thread.

sweetpea03b

As someone that also has PCOS... and has only lost 14lbs in 6 months... I say, good for you for losing so much in such a small time. Have you cut out dairy? Everything I've read about PCOS nutrition says you should avoid it like the plague. Also, I would recommend cutting back on the cardio and introducing lifting (or increasing it if you already are lifting)... that is what really helped me start to lose. PCOS sucks.... your BMR is usually alot lower than any calculators say it is... so its very hard to find the "sweet spot". Me... my TDEE according to all calculators is somewhere around 2200-2500 but i've found that very inaccurate. If I stick to my 1500 goal, usually I'll hit 3/4 -1lb lost in a week (I work out 7 days/week). So... there you have it. It's going to be slow.... but just hang in there. A loss is a loss... and usually the slower you lose it the longer it stays gone.

Good luck!

Elly1021

So many interesting posts!

For those who insist CICO is working for me, I will attempt to clarify: I am not saying that CICO does not work at all. Clearly, if you do not eat anything, you will lose weight (and, eventually, die). My problem with CICO is that it does not work 'as advertised.' Further, and even more annoyingly, when it does not work as advertised, I somehow catch the blame for it.

The thing that really gets me is not so much the slow weight loss, but the ever present accusation that seems to run through all weight-related discussions -- that I'm either too stupid, too lazy, or too gluttonous to ease back on the cheeseburgers and expend more calories than I'm consuming. It seems like every other week I'm subjected to a self-righteous/self-adulating 'random' observation on the efficacy of CICO. Really people, if it were that simple weight never would have been an issue for me in the first place.

That post about being treated like you are sleepwalking to the fridge and eating really resonated for me. It is encouraging to read that other people are dealing with the same issues, and that I'm probably not sleepwalking to the fridge in the middle of the night and feeding.

Next week I will adjust macros and start weight training. Monday will see some of the great suggestions I've seen implemented.

Thanks everyone for the great input!

.

Carnivor0us

if CICO is BS then how did you lose 5 pounds in a month?

Obviously, you have a medical condition so you are going to have to work hard to create a calorie deficit then "normal" people. This does no mean that calories in vs calories out does not apply. With moderate calorie deficit and some kind of work out regimen you can and will lose weight.

And at the end of the day what is wrong with 1 pound per week loss?

No one here is saying the CICO is bullsh*t. People with PCOS, like myself, the OP and others that are posting here know that it's not JUST calories in and calories out that make weight loss work with this condition. The majority of people with PCOS HAVE TO CONSIDER MACRONUTRIENTS. I got NOWHERE with a typical high-carb, low calorie diet, but my weight did start to budge with a low-carb, high fat, moderate caloric deficit. This isn't hard to understand why this works better if you understand insulin resistance at all.

lindsey1979

if CICO is BS then how did you lose 5 pounds in a month?

Obviously, you have a medical condition so you are going to have to work hard to create a calorie deficit then "normal" people. This does no mean that calories in vs calories out does not apply. With moderate calorie deficit and some kind of work out regimen you can and will lose weight.

And at the end of the day what is wrong with 1 pound per week loss?

No one here is saying the CICO is bullsh*t. People with PCOS, like myself, the OP and others that are posting here know that it's not JUST calories in and calories out that make weight loss work with this condition. The majority of people with PCOS HAVE TO CONSIDER MACRONUTRIENTS. I got NOWHERE with a typical high-carb, low calorie diet, but my weight did start to budge with a low-carb, high fat, moderate caloric deficit. This isn't hard to understand why this works better if you understand insulin resistance at all.

Yes, but some think all calories are the same. A calorie is a calorie.

Not sure if ndj falls in that category or not, but I've certainly read many posts by people that do -- and they often take it as an attack on the general concepts of CICO.

psuLemon

if CICO is BS then how did you lose 5 pounds in a month?

Obviously, you have a medical condition so you are going to have to work hard to create a calorie deficit then "normal" people. This does no mean that calories in vs calories out does not apply. With moderate calorie deficit and some kind of work out regimen you can and will lose weight.

And at the end of the day what is wrong with 1 pound per week loss?

No one here is saying the CICO is bullsh*t. People with PCOS, like myself, the OP and others that are posting here know that it's not JUST calories in and calories out that make weight loss work with this condition. The majority of people with PCOS HAVE TO CONSIDER MACRONUTRIENTS. I got NOWHERE with a typical high-carb, low calorie diet, but my weight did start to budge with a low-carb, high fat, moderate caloric deficit. This isn't hard to understand why this works better if you understand insulin resistance at all.

I think the point that njd is making is CICO still applies but when it comes to medical conditions, the need to monitor macros is important.

danielszp

Instead of focusing on calories in calories out try focusing on what type of calories your getting. I'll share some tips that have given me great results so far. I was actually at 218 2 months ago and am down to 199 at the moment.

I got most of my advice from an acupunturist in South Korea where I currently reside.

1.) Only drink water, lemon water or green tea.
One whole lemon squeezed into a liter of water has done miracles fo rme since I started. My trips to the washroom are more frequent but my liver and kidney I feel are operating so much better. My Doctor here said if your urine isnt clear drink a cup of water every 15 minutes until it is.

2.) Spinach, kale, brocolli as much as you want whenever you want. I eat spinach like chips in fron of the t.v.
3.) No fruit after 4 pm. He said the sugar is good in the morning to get you going but in the evening it can keep you up at night and be stored as fat if not used as feul.
4.) Find foods that make you feel good and stick to eating the same stuff as long as it satisfies your daily requirements and appetite.
5.) Weight train to increase metabolism. Preferably before the afternoon.
Walk everywhere.
6.) Make ginger tea with organic honey to help your liver and kidney.
7.) If you get a huge hunger urge eat a couple of almonds. They have the perfect fats for you.
8.) TIPS****adjust yoru calories as you begin to lose weight. When your weight drops more than 5 pounds you should reduce your caloric intake since your body now needs less calories.
9.) Dont go well under you caloric intake because yoru body may go into starvation mode and store fat.
10.) you mentioned youve lost littl ebut are exercising often???You quite frankly have gained some decent muscle and definition under your fat stores that weigh more than the fat burned dont focus too much on the scale.
11.) massage your stomach for 5 minutes 1 hour after every meal it does wonders. Aids in digestion.
12.) Try intermittent fasting to give your liver and kidneys a break from processing foods and give them a chance to break down the toxins trapped in yoru fat stores. You cant lose the fat until the toxiins in yoru fat are removed, since the fat is storing the toxins. Look into detoxing yoru liver and kidneys.
13. Go to the sauna on an empty stomach 3 times a week.

I have felt better now then ever before. the sauna lemon tea intermittent fasting truly did wonders for my body, clarity and digestion. Good luck hang in there.