Is WEIGHT GAIN caused by genetics or not? **For my Paper**
Replies
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I haven't done any scientific experiments but I'd be shocked if it was found that genetics wasn't a factor. It's true that it's calories in minus calories out but appetitite and body types are still genetic. And no, I'm not making excuses because I'm 5'11" 175 pounds.Point one: Genetics play a role in an individual’s “ideal weight,” not how much they gain.
Point two: Weight gain is caused by increased caloric intake; if you eat more than you burn, you gain weight, if you eat less, you lose it. Point three: Many people focus on blaming genetics when they do not want to put in the effort it takes to lose weight or to maintain weight loss.
Biochem grad here. I second this. Genetics definitely affects appetite, digestion, psychological components, and other contributing factors. Just because genetics doesn't directly cause weight gain doesn't mean that it isn't a significant influence. Most people accept that skin tone, hair color, and many other things are determined by genetics, but those things have environmental components as well. Just because there is an environmental component that you can somewhat control doesn't discount the fact that genetics matter.0 -
THIS for sure! I too think the way we eat is a learned behavior..and finally at the age of 47 I am relearning my bad habits!I think it's more "eating habits that get passed on from parents to offspring" than "genetics" that produce families and families of overweight people.0 -
How the hell are you going to tell me I haven't been at a deficit and I don't gain eating my TDEE when I log EVERYTHING I put in my mouth, weigh everything, wear a pedometer, wear a HRM when I'm working out?
Because you would be violating the laws of the universe if what you claim were true. It is *impossible* - you may as well be claiming you have a hammer that, when you drop it, floats in the air.
If your logging is telling you otherwise, there is something wrong with your logging - period. Full stop.
Sorry, but what I'm telling you is the truth.
the truth hurts….0 -
I've been at a deficit for the past 3 years and STILL gained weight because of my endocrine disorders.
You haven't been at a deficit.I gain eating my TDEE
No, you do not.
LOL. How the hell are you going to tell me I haven't been at a deficit and I don't gain eating my TDEE when I log EVERYTHING I put in my mouth, weigh everything, wear a pedometer, wear a HRM when I'm working out?
I know what I do every day. You don't. So you are beyond ignorant. When you have spent years in and out of hospitals and doctors offices, seeing every specialist under the sun, having every test performed, having blood work every couple days, collecting 24 hr urine tests, undergoing MRIs, CT scans, x-rays, ultrasounds, colonoscopies, endoscopies, laparoscopies, cancer scares, etc. to find out why you've gained 100+lbs and experience the symptoms I do every day for NO REASON, THEN you can open your mouth. But until then, be quiet because your commentary isn't needed, wanted, or in any way helpful.
If you're gaining you have not...by definition...been eating at a deficit. The results determine whether or not you were eating at a deficit, eating your TDEE, or eating in a surplus, not a guess at what your TDEE should be. Estimates are just estimates regardless of your medical conditions.0 -
I've been at a deficit for the past 3 years and STILL gained weight because of my endocrine disorders.
You haven't been at a deficit.I gain eating my TDEE
No, you do not.
LOL. How the hell are you going to tell me I haven't been at a deficit and I don't gain eating my TDEE when I log EVERYTHING I put in my mouth, weigh everything, wear a pedometer, wear a HRM when I'm working out?
I know what I do every day. You don't. So you are beyond ignorant. When you have spent years in and out of hospitals and doctors offices, seeing every specialist under the sun, having every test performed, having blood work every couple days, collecting 24 hr urine tests, undergoing MRIs, CT scans, x-rays, ultrasounds, colonoscopies, endoscopies, laparoscopies, cancer scares, etc. to find out why you've gained 100+lbs and experience the symptoms I do every day for NO REASON, THEN you can open your mouth. But until then, be quiet because your commentary isn't needed, wanted, or in any way helpful.
I think you are misunderstanding what others are saying. I have a long and sordid medical history too. I have had so many scans I probably glow in the dark at this point - gained weight for "no reason". Finally got my metabolism tested and lo and behold, those calculators are very off for me and a "deficit" according to those was a surplus for me due to medical issues. It's not that your condition makes you gain weight while eating at a deficit (that is impossible), it's that your condition affects your TDEE (and BMR, RMR, etc.) to such an appreciable degree that you cannot rely on normal calculations to arrive at what your deficit actually should be.0 -
OP -
I really hope you are just using this stuff as a jumping point and doing your own research as well. I won't go over issues with the thesis as others have already pointed that out, but a few leads for you to follow:
Research on the FTO genes, especially rs9939609
TAS2R38 gene and propensity to overeat
TMEM18 gene0 -
this isn't an English thesis question though... it's a biological sciences question.... scientists don't just dream up answers to these questions - they do research and studies, and it's all peer-reviewed. Asking people on the internet for their opinions is not valid research for this kind of question. Additionally, there's so much misinformation and confusion out there about questions like this and the main cause of the confusion and misinformation is non-scientists presenting their personal, uninformed, unresearched (or minimally researched) sometimes heavily biassed (including "cherry picked" research) opinions as fact. So I'm not just being pedantic about this being a biological sciences question rather than an English thesis question.
A thesis on this question needs to be based on peer reviewed research and it's going to have to be researched and written pretty much the same way that a biology student's thesis would read (okay, you can probably be a bit more relaxed in the writing style and style of referencing the studies, but you need to go to the biological sciences or similar department to do your research), if it's to have any benefit to humanity as opposed to adding to the confusion that's already out there.... it's not an opinion question, it's a research question.
Some pointers:
Yes weight gain is caused by genetics. 600 million years of animal evolution has resulted in genetics that cause animals to gain weight - usually fat but sometimes muscle, depending on the circumstances - when eating at a calorie surplus. It didn't have to be that way, I'm sure mutations arose along the way in animals whereby they were unable to store food if they ate in a surplus, maybe they just pooped it out, but natural selection didn't favour those individuals.... it favoured storing energy when they ate a surplus.
I know that's not what people mean by genetics, but that's actually the answer to the question. Yes weight gain is caused by genetics, and the reason why people gain weight when they eat more than the body needs is because the stored energy gives them a massive evolutionary advantage during a food shortage. And when the excess is stored as muscle, they have an evolutionary advantage by being stronger... yet too much muscle is a liability in a food shortage, hence why genes for muscle mass reduction during a food shortage or as a result of muscles not being used, has been selected for by natural selection.
Are some people genetically predisposed to be more likely to overeat or have a slightly slower metabolism or less lean mass and therefore gain weight more easily - Yes. There is variation in any population. People who naturally store more fat will survive best during a food shortage. In our evolutionary past, the situation where humans/animals can gorge themselves to the point of morbid obesity didn't occur, hence no evolutionary/genetic mechanism to prevent that. But as Homo sapiens, possibly the most intelligent species to have ever evolved, has enough cranial capacity to figure out it's a bad idea to do that.
Are there some genetic conditions which mean people gain weight too easily? Absolutely. Hypothyroidism, for example. And that's not necessarily genetic, because it can be caused by environmental factors. Genetic =/= factors beyond our control. Genetic = controlled by genes. Lots of factors beyond our control have nothing to do with genetics. I mention this, because people frequently talk about genetics in ways that imply they believe that if something's genetic it's beyond their control.... some things can still be controlled even though they're the result of genetics (e.g. you can still avoid weight gain with good portion control, even if you're genetically predisposed to gain weight more easily than average) and some things that can't be controlled are not the result of genetics but the result of environmental factors.0 -
No.If you have an endocrine disorder (PCOS, insulin resistance, diabetes, Hashimoto's, etc.), weight gain still happens even if the person is burning more calories than they are consuming.
If that was the case, these bodies would have solved the world's energy problem by actually creating energy while starving themselves.
In these cases the body burns LESS, but people typically use a generic calculator which doesn't take account of their condition.
They don't realise that their body has a reduced BMR, so continue to eat more calories than their body needs.
The simplest way to work out deficit or surplus in such situations is to average out long term body weight tracking. If it's going up, you are in a surplus, not a deficit. You have more going in than coming out.
I've been at a deficit for the past 3 years and STILL gained weight because of my endocrine disorders. So don't tell me "no." You aren't a doctor. You don't have these disorders and you certainly don't know everything. It IS absolutely possible to gain weight when you are not in a surplus. That's what these disorders do to people. Talk to any endocrinologist. They'll tell you the same thing.
eating the number of calories that the calculators say should be a deficit =/= eating at a deficit
I totally believe you that your metabolism is slower than it should be, and so you're gaining weight while eating an amount of food that should be a deficit for anyone else your height and weight............. but if you're gaining weight you're not actually eating at a deficit. The calories in v calories out equation is still true. What's happening in your case is that your medical issues have skewed the calories out side of the equation, so you're gaining weight while eating less food than should cause weight gain
I know this sounds really pedantic, but please understand this point, otherwise you're going to be constantly annoyed with people telling you that you're not eating at a deficit. You're not. It's not your fault and no-one's accusing you of being a glutton or anything like that. They're just trying to explain the science.
ETA: trying to create a deficit in this situation by eating less and less can actually make the metabolic problem worse, so don't do that... it's better to create a deficit firstly by doing what you can medically to correct the metabolic issue (e.g. in the case of hypothyroid, take thyroid medication) as this puts the calories out side of the equation back to where it should be and makes it possible to eat at a deficit while eating normal healthy dieting amounts of food..... additionally it's also better to create a deficit by doing more exercise and still eating plenty of food. Exercise helps to speed up the metabolism. Eating less tends to cause the metabolism to slow even further.0 -
For the people that claim they gain while eating at a TDEE.
No, I am not a doctor.
I DO however, understand the basic way world works in such situations.
As it goes, I do have a metabolic tester and have looked in to the area a bit.
How have you got your metabolism tested? If you have used an online calculator, but DO have issues, then the online calculator is wrong.
Despite having said metabolic tester (I'm not a very good salesman), I DO advise people that the best method to work out TDEE is CICO.
Taking from a poster above who gains on 1200 and loses on 800. If this happens consistently as an average over long periods, TDEE is probably somewhere around 1000 - certainly between the two. Of course, logging food isn't that accurate.
Many foods can be 50% unrepresented - suddenly a TDEE of 1500. HOWEVER, that doesn't matter. Because if they eat the up to a total of foods which claim to have 1000 calories and weight stays the same, that IS a useful TDEE number as it reflects their environment.
Then that's rather sad, to my mind. There does seem to be a trait in some stand ups that they can give it out, but not take it.And I am happy to tell you, I was a stand-up comic for 15 years.
If you've been around stand ups for a good bit of time and STILL get offended by a joke which happens to hit home, then you definitely need a thicker skin, I'd say
. (Appreciated British Stand Ups tend to be particularly offensive.)
So, yes, it IS about you having a thin skin, to my mind. Over the years I've been offended by many such things that could target me. Over the years I've realised I'd prefer the freedom of speech for people to say them than to restrict the things that personally offend me.0 -
I know it's science-based. It's just an argumentative research paper for my English class. I'm speaking more in terms that people who don't have any medical issues blame genetics, though it is extremely helpful and makes sense to put in some people who do have those problems. My professor told me to pick something I'm passionate about and I guess this hit home for me because of the number of people I know blaming their genetics for why they're fat versus doing anything about it.this isn't an English thesis question though... it's a biological sciences question.... scientists don't just dream up answers to these questions - they do research and studies, and it's all peer-reviewed. Asking people on the internet for their opinions is not valid research for this kind of question. Additionally, there's so much misinformation and confusion out there about questions like this and the main cause of the confusion and misinformation is non-scientists presenting their personal, uninformed, unresearched (or minimally researched) sometimes heavily biassed (including "cherry picked" research) opinions as fact. So I'm not just being pedantic about this being a biological sciences question rather than an English thesis question.
A thesis on this question needs to be based on peer reviewed research and it's going to have to be researched and written pretty much the same way that a biology student's thesis would read (okay, you can probably be a bit more relaxed in the writing style and style of referencing the studies, but you need to go to the biological sciences or similar department to do your research), if it's to have any benefit to humanity as opposed to adding to the confusion that's already out there.... it's not an opinion question, it's a research question.
Some pointers:
Yes weight gain is caused by genetics. 600 million years of animal evolution has resulted in genetics that cause animals to gain weight - usually fat but sometimes muscle, depending on the circumstances - when eating at a calorie surplus. It didn't have to be that way, I'm sure mutations arose along the way in animals whereby they were unable to store food if they ate in a surplus, maybe they just pooped it out, but natural selection didn't favour those individuals.... it favoured storing energy when they ate a surplus.
I know that's not what people mean by genetics, but that's actually the answer to the question. Yes weight gain is caused by genetics, and the reason why people gain weight when they eat more than the body needs is because the stored energy gives them a massive evolutionary advantage during a food shortage. And when the excess is stored as muscle, they have an evolutionary advantage by being stronger... yet too much muscle is a liability in a food shortage, hence why genes for muscle mass reduction during a food shortage or as a result of muscles not being used, has been selected for by natural selection.
Are some people genetically predisposed to be more likely to overeat or have a slightly slower metabolism or less lean mass and therefore gain weight more easily - Yes. There is variation in any population. People who naturally store more fat will survive best during a food shortage. In our evolutionary past, the situation where humans/animals can gorge themselves to the point of morbid obesity didn't occur, hence no evolutionary/genetic mechanism to prevent that. But as Homo sapiens, possibly the most intelligent species to have ever evolved, has enough cranial capacity to figure out it's a bad idea to do that.
Are there some genetic conditions which mean people gain weight too easily? Absolutely. Hypothyroidism, for example. And that's not necessarily genetic, because it can be caused by environmental factors. Genetic =/= factors beyond our control. Genetic = controlled by genes. Lots of factors beyond our control have nothing to do with genetics. I mention this, because people frequently talk about genetics in ways that imply they believe that if something's genetic it's beyond their control.... some things can still be controlled even though they're the result of genetics (e.g. you can still avoid weight gain with good portion control, even if you're genetically predisposed to gain weight more easily than average) and some things that can't be controlled are not the result of genetics but the result of environmental factors.0 -
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Weight gain and genetics are not related, bad diet and poor habits can result in weight gain.
Also there are studies (I don't have the specific link bookmarked but you could probably find it) that we all have a similar basic metabolic rate...I mean obviously 100lb vs 200lb person is going to have a different caloric intake but their rate will be the same.
Here's where it gets tricky.....2 people weighing the same, same gender, same height, same body mass of muscle and fat ect. Will their metabolism be the same? Probably not. Majority of the population may be in a range of 200 calories below or above the medium or 10%. There's 1% of the population who will go at least double that amount above or below .0 -
I don't think it's genetics...everyone (EVERYONE) in my family is fit and takes care of themselves...but I'm overweight...because I'm lazy...I'm working on it though
which is why I'm here... 0 -
No.If you have an endocrine disorder (PCOS, insulin resistance, diabetes, Hashimoto's, etc.), weight gain still happens even if the person is burning more calories than they are consuming.
If that was the case, these bodies would have solved the world's energy problem by actually creating energy while starving themselves.
In these cases the body burns LESS, but people typically use a generic calculator which doesn't take account of their condition.
They don't realise that their body has a reduced BMR, so continue to eat more calories than their body needs.
The simplest way to work out deficit or surplus in such situations is to average out long term body weight tracking. If it's going up, you are in a surplus, not a deficit. You have more going in than coming out.
I've been at a deficit for the past 3 years and STILL gained weight because of my endocrine disorders. So don't tell me "no." You aren't a doctor. You don't have these disorders and you certainly don't know everything. It IS absolutely possible to gain weight when you are not in a surplus. That's what these disorders do to people. Talk to any endocrinologist. They'll tell you the same thing.
Have you gotten any metabolic testing done? Also, with your condition, do macronutrients play a bigger role? I know with my wife's condition, she is gluten and carb sensitive and has struggle with energy levels and weight loss. Now that she has gotten away from a lot of carbs, she is slowly making improvements such as being able to workout for the first time in over 10 years without getting dizzy or passing out.0 -
This is from the Coriell Institute for Medical Research - they do genetic testing and I am one of the early volunteers:
"Genetic vs. Non-Genetic Risk Factors
Obesity is caused by eating more calories than are used in physical activity. The risk of becoming obese is influenced by both genetic factors and non-genetic (or environmental) risk factors.
It is estimated that non-genetic factors (like diet and exercise) account for about 14% of the risk of becoming obese.
It is estimated that 86% of the risk of becoming obese is based on genetic risk factors. This estimate accounts for both known and unknown gene variants."0 -
I haven't done any scientific experiments but I'd be shocked if it was found that genetics wasn't a factor. It's true that it's calories in minus calories out but appetitite and body types are still genetic. And no, I'm not making excuses because I'm 5'11" 175 pounds.Point one: Genetics play a role in an individual’s “ideal weight,” not how much they gain.
Point two: Weight gain is caused by increased caloric intake; if you eat more than you burn, you gain weight, if you eat less, you lose it. Point three: Many people focus on blaming genetics when they do not want to put in the effort it takes to lose weight or to maintain weight loss.
Biochem grad here. I second this. Genetics definitely affects appetite, digestion, psychological components, and other contributing factors. Just because genetics doesn't directly cause weight gain doesn't mean that it isn't a significant influence. Most people accept that skin tone, hair color, and many other things are determined by genetics, but those things have environmental components as well. Just because there is an environmental component that you can somewhat control doesn't discount the fact that genetics matter.
But you can't confuse environmental factors as part of genetics. If it genetic, then it means you are predisposition to have that destiny. Would you suggest that a person is predisposed to being overweight? I understand that medical conditions make things difficult and can throw a wrench into things until it's properly diagnosed and medicated, but regardless of the condition, you can be skinny or obese. It just depends on finding the right combination of medical and diet that works.0 -
Thyroid disease is 10% of the population (talking USA here) and before I was on meds, I was gaining weight and there was nothing I could do to stop it, no matter how I ate or how much I exercised. There is a lot of undiagonsed conditions (it took me many years to get my diagnosis from when I first had symptoms, about 20), thyroid disease, diabetes, etc.0
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I haven't done any scientific experiments but I'd be shocked if it was found that genetics wasn't a factor. It's true that it's calories in minus calories out but appetitite and body types are still genetic. And no, I'm not making excuses because I'm 5'11" 175 pounds.Point one: Genetics play a role in an individual’s “ideal weight,” not how much they gain.
Point two: Weight gain is caused by increased caloric intake; if you eat more than you burn, you gain weight, if you eat less, you lose it. Point three: Many people focus on blaming genetics when they do not want to put in the effort it takes to lose weight or to maintain weight loss.
Biochem grad here. I second this. Genetics definitely affects appetite, digestion, psychological components, and other contributing factors. Just because genetics doesn't directly cause weight gain doesn't mean that it isn't a significant influence. Most people accept that skin tone, hair color, and many other things are determined by genetics, but those things have environmental components as well. Just because there is an environmental component that you can somewhat control doesn't discount the fact that genetics matter.
But you can't confuse environmental factors as part of genetics. If it genetic, then it means you are predisposition to have that destiny. Would you suggest that a person is predisposed to being overweight? I understand that medical conditions make things difficult and can throw a wrench into things until it's properly diagnosed and medicated, but regardless of the condition, you can be skinny or obese. It just depends on finding the right combination of medical and diet that works.
People can be genetically predisposed to overeating through malfunction in the body's appetite regulation systems, i.e they never get the "full" signal when they've eaten enough so are prone to overeating. This can also happen due to damage to the hypothalamus, i.e it's not genetic it's environmental, but it still causes the person to have a tendency to overeat.
To some extent humans in general have a tendency to overeat, probably because Homo erectus didn't have a guaranteed food supply and thus people who overate when there was plenty of food and stored up fat for leaner times came through food shortages better and thus left more genes in the population. We're all the descendents of generation upon generation of people who survived food shortages - we're adapted for surviving in an environment where food was sometimes scarce and food always required effort (sometimes very strenuous effort) to acquire, not for living in a world where you can order pizza and mcdonalds over the telephone to be delivered through your living room window without even leaving the sofa. And if something is the result of natural selection, then it does come from genetics, because genes are what are passed from generation to generation and what natural selection acts upon. And when something comes from genes, there is nearly always variation. So there is definitely genetic variation in the extent to which people are predisposed to overeat. And that includes some people being predisposed to undereat - i.e. the "hard gainers" who do all kinds of weight lifting programmes and try their best to eat at a surplus but still don't gain weight because their appetite set point won't let them (and trying to eat more when you're full to the point of nausea is something no-one can do very easily).
This question is a highly complex one, and the issue of people thinking that they're the only one that finds fat loss difficult and that maintenance of a healthy weight requires effort and vigilance, or that being like this is abnormal and everyone else finds it easy, is not the same as the question as to whether some people are genetically predisposed to get fatter more easily than others.
However, going back to the OP's aim in this - whether someone's genetically predisposed to overeat more than average, that does not condemn them to a lifetime of obesity.... the obesity can be overcome through exercise and portion control (for someone prone to overeating, then exercise is probably even more important)........... the myth that "I have a genetic tendency to obesity therefore there's nothing I can do about being obese" is probably what needs to be challenged the most. Just because you're genetically predisposed to something doesn't mean it's impossible to mitigate that thing through controlling the environmental factors that interplay with the genetic factors. In the case of obesity that means ensuring an active lifestyle and good portion control.0 -
Look guys you both are right.
It's true that genetics don't really forbid you from getting the body you like. And it's true that a lot of people use their genetics as an excuse never to try. It's also true that some people don't CARE that they are overweight. And just use the word genetics to get dieting Nazi's off their back. This isn't the kind of question with a simple either or answer. It depends on the circumstances. And yes while genetics can give you certain predispositions in the end how you end up is up to you. It's also true that how our parents teach us to eat effects our metabolism and our perception of food at the fundamental level. Which can in certain cases create disastrous metabolic trends. Which can be very difficult to beat later in life.
So long story short yeah encourage people to lose weight but you know what If they don't want to then get off their back. Not everyone has to be a healthy weight if they don't want to. People do unhealthy things because they are fun ALL the time. Now I'm not advocating just allowing someone to succumb to true excess. But honestly if someone wants to be 50lb or even 100lb over what you would consider healthy weight and they don't have a problem with it it's your lookout to accept that not theirs to change.
And to the OP honestly you shouldn't ask a question like that on a forum like this. Almost every one here is an avid dieter. You should have expected this level of soap boxing. If you really want to write a paper on this issue then you need to explore much more then genetics to account for eating and weight trends. In that respect it's true that genetics doesn't really play much of a role. But to say it plays none? Kinda naive too.0 -
People can be genetically predisposed to overeating through malfunction in the body's appetite regulation systems, i.e they never get the "full" signal when they've eaten enough so are prone to overeating. This can also happen due to damage to the hypothalamus, i.e it's not genetic it's environmental, but it still causes the person to have a tendency to overeat.
To some extent humans in general have a tendency to overeat, probably because Homo erectus didn't have a guaranteed food supply and thus people who overate when there was plenty of food and stored up fat for leaner times came through food shortages better and thus left more genes in the population. We're all the descendents of generation upon generation of people who survived food shortages - we're adapted for surviving in an environment where food was sometimes scarce and food always required effort (sometimes very strenuous effort) to acquire, not for living in a world where you can order pizza and mcdonalds over the telephone to be delivered through your living room window without even leaving the sofa. And if something is the result of natural selection, then it does come from genetics, because genes are what are passed from generation to generation and what natural selection acts upon. And when something comes from genes, there is nearly always variation. So there is definitely genetic variation in the extent to which people are predisposed to overeat. And that includes some people being predisposed to undereat - i.e. the "hard gainers" who do all kinds of weight lifting programmes and try their best to eat at a surplus but still don't gain weight because their appetite set point won't let them (and trying to eat more when you're full to the point of nausea is something no-one can do very easily).
This question is a highly complex one, and the issue of people thinking that they're the only one that finds fat loss difficult and that maintenance of a healthy weight requires effort and vigilance, or that being like this is abnormal and everyone else finds it easy, is not the same as the question as to whether some people are genetically predisposed to get fatter more easily than others.
However, going back to the OP's aim in this - whether someone's genetically predisposed to overeat more than average, that does not condemn them to a lifetime of obesity.... the obesity can be overcome through exercise and portion control (for someone prone to overeating, then exercise is probably even more important)........... the myth that "I have a genetic tendency to obesity therefore there's nothing I can do about being obese" is probably what needs to be challenged the most. Just because you're genetically predisposed to something doesn't mean it's impossible to mitigate that thing through controlling the environmental factors that interplay with the genetic factors. In the case of obesity that means ensuring an active lifestyle and good portion control.
I guess my definition may be a bit too black and white. The way I have looked at is, even if you have a medical condition, do you still have the ability to lose weight? If so, then it isn't a genetic issue, but rather environmental. To me environmental =/= genetic; I more see that as a variable. So I guess that question would be how the scientific community views genetic factors, which I would have to investigate more.
I view it this way because when I think genetics (eye color, skin color, bone structure, blood type) those are all things you cannot change (outside of surgery). And weight is something that can change.0 -
Your not! I appreciate it. I did mess it up. But now, I think I have got it! Best wishes. I love your photo- you have a lovely smile1
@MrsRatFire, when you quote a post, just go under what pops up in the reply box and type your response up under everything that's already there. I'm having a hard time following all of this. This is a sincere attempt to help; not trying to be rude.
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...the obesity can be overcome through exercise and portion control ...
Only if your genetics allow you to make those choices.0 -
Your post is well written and brings up valid points. Even those of us like me and the other young lady in a similar boat do better with measuring and logging. That is why, I am sure, both of us are here. Best selling weight loss books are frequently about "the magic bullet" that will work for everyone! If that were true, we would not see this huge increase in weight in the population.
After so many crash diets and exercise programs I did for many years, the medical condition finally had enough symptoms to even know I had one. The theory of my parents are fat, therefore I am fat with no hope- is agreed, flawed logic. I had to learn my limits on how many carbs I could delete, how much food I could or could not eat, by trial and error. And the errors at time, sent me to an ER- in muscle contortions screaming in pain. I almost died, 5 times now! My chest was once being contracted by what seemed like a boa constrictor and I was gasping for air. This particular incident, went on and on all night- and it happened from me not eating enough carbs for about 5 days in my diet. (August 2013) Therefore, I track and log. These data sites are wonderful, it sure beats looking everything up in a book and jotting it down. Unfortunately, no matter how much effort, I will probably never be the ideal weight again- due to my age and progression of the disorder. but that is OKAY now. I will track and log and impact it as positively as I can.
The muscle system requires a ton of energy to function. Which is why muscle problems are frequent and a prominent hallmark to anyone who does not metabolize their food due to a genetic disorder. As we age, it gets worse. If I do to many household chores- I go into spasms. If I run more than two errands in a day, I go into spasms. And it is not the "ouch", I have a charley horse. It is every muscle in my body reacting to the lack of fuel- I crumple up into contortions and scream like a woman in labor. Which of course, labor is muscle contractions. During these episodes, I drink water by the ton…..it has to be brought to me. I have been alone and crawled across the floor, dragging myself- grappling up to the counter and pulling myself up, legs, hips, back, torso all in horrible spasms to get it myself. I eat teaspoons of salt and sugar trying to get my body fuel. And yes, consume all electrolytes which I take on a regular basis.
I get smaller spasms daily, but I have what is normal for me, at this time. As I get older, it increases, but I consider a certain amount manageable. Genetics is very complex and there are so many diseases and disorders, many which are not identified yet. There is little to no protocol or medicines for them. Just addressing symptoms and tracking every morsel and changing as your condition changes. No, I will not conquer it, I can only manage it. And yes, I have an overage of weight which I have dedicated a life time to changing, and still am.
My geneticist has me on Ubiquinel Co-Q-10, Alpha Lipolic Acid and Carnitine. All over the counter, and all things that are common for metabolic disorders in an attempt to improve the conversion into fuel. All other medications are in response to symptoms only beyond that.
The testing for these disorders is so ungodly expensive- mine they still want to do are $ 20,000. Insurance will not pay for it as I am an adult. Children can usually get the testing, but they do not approve adults. That leaves us in the shot gun approach. I have had some testing done- which led to the diagnoses, but it is not complete.
Genetics are changing now. The labs are all specialty labs and there are few in the world and the country. But, there was progress in the technology and it is my geneticists understanding that the prices will come down as more labs open. It will still be on me to pay it, but it will be cheaper. The current price of the one genome panel is 10,000, which I would not do. If it goes down to 1500 or so, I will.
Unfortunately, these disorders, metabolic, simply are not covered for adults. Which makes diagnosis often impossible. As people with my disease have liver, heat and kidney failure- that may be preventable to a point- as well as a list of symptoms that would make your hair stand up on end…..it seems cruel to me. The insurance company simply says all you have to do is be on a diet so therefore, no testing! Unless your a child. Although we have narrowed down my disorders, hence the treatment, we are not positive- I have had partial confirmation as I cannot and will not pay for it.
In a nutshell, one of my disorders is FOD (Fatty Oxidation Disorder) which is either an in ability to utilize long chain, short chain or medium chain fatty acids. The problem is, we do not know which one- so it is shot gun. And even if I eliminated them all- I would die in spasms, heart attack, whatever. We limit them, we cannot eliminate them. To make it more complex, I have a Glycogen Storage Disorder. Which means, I do not metabolize carbs well. It is the damed if you do and damned if you don't issue. These disorders are almost opposites- they each stop the metabolism of everything.
I wish I was as rare as what people think, but I am not. I am in a support group on line and there are thousands upon thousands of us who have mitochondrial and metabolic disorders.
I have spent my life beating myself up over weight- I did not know I was sick for YEARS, but finally the symptoms cut me down. I went to a funeral once by myself. A couple of losers were outside smoking- 3 guys. As I was walking up, one of them says, "Here comes Mama Cass." I can only tell you, that there will be people who put extreme effort and get diagnosed and do everything they should, and will still have people always pointing it out, that they are fat and therefore worthy of being mocked, even publicly. The public is changing, I suppose they have evolved some and are not as cruel, I hope.
The best thing all of us can do is not judge. You never know what that person is going through. All of us can decide, that if someone is overweight, to not associate with them if we choose. But just opening your mouth and taking a shot- it should be considered as bad as racism.
Thank you for your post. You are clearly educated and well balanced on the subject. Excuse my paddling on, but I thought you may find some of the nuts and bolts from a person who actually has a metabolic disorder interesting! Thank you.
I haven't done any scientific experiments but I'd be shocked if it was found that genetics wasn't a factor. It's true that it's calories in minus calories out but appetitite and body types are still genetic. And no, I'm not making excuses because I'm 5'11" 175 pounds.Point one: Genetics play a role in an individual’s “ideal weight,” not how much they gain.
Point two: Weight gain is caused by increased caloric intake; if you eat more than you burn, you gain weight, if you eat less, you lose it. Point three: Many people focus on blaming genetics when they do not want to put in the effort it takes to lose weight or to maintain weight loss.
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Biochem grad here. I second this. Genetics definitely affects appetite, digestion, psychological components, and other contributing factors. Just because genetics doesn't directly cause weight gain doesn't mean that it isn't a significant influence. Most people accept that skin tone, hair color, and many other things are determined by genetics, but those things have environmental components as well. Just because there is an environmental component that you can somewhat control doesn't discount the fact that genetics matter.
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But you can't confuse environmental factors as part of genetics. If it genetic, then it means you are predisposition to have that destiny. Would you suggest that a person is predisposed to being overweight? I understand that medical conditions make things difficult and can throw a wrench into things until it's properly diagnosed and medicated, but regardless of the condition, you can be skinny or obese. It just depends on finding the right combination of medical and diet that works.
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People can be genetically predisposed to overeating through malfunction in the body's appetite regulation systems, i.e they never get the "full" signal when they've eaten enough so are prone to overeating. This can also happen due to damage to the hypothalamus, i.e it's not genetic it's environmental, but it still causes the person to have a tendency to overeat.
To some extent humans in general have a tendency to overeat, probably because Homo erectus didn't have a guaranteed food supply and thus people who overate when there was plenty of food and stored up fat for leaner times came through food shortages better and thus left more genes in the population. We're all the descendents of generation upon generation of people who survived food shortages - we're adapted for surviving in an environment where food was sometimes scarce and food always required effort (sometimes very strenuous effort) to acquire, not for living in a world where you can order pizza and mcdonalds over the telephone to be delivered through your living room window without even leaving the sofa. And if something is the result of natural selection, then it does come from genetics, because genes are what are passed from generation to generation and what natural selection acts upon. And when something comes from genes, there is nearly always variation. So there is definitely genetic variation in the extent to which people are predisposed to overeat. And that includes some people being predisposed to undereat - i.e. the "hard gainers" who do all kinds of weight lifting programmes and try their best to eat at a surplus but still don't gain weight because their appetite set point won't let them (and trying to eat more when you're full to the point of nausea is something no-one can do very easily).
This question is a highly complex one, and the issue of people thinking that they're the only one that finds fat loss difficult and that maintenance of a healthy weight requires effort and vigilance, or that being like this is abnormal and everyone else finds it easy, is not the same as the question as to whether some people are genetically predisposed to get fatter more easily than others.
However, going back to the OP's aim in this - whether someone's genetically predisposed to overeat more than average, that does not condemn them to a lifetime of obesity.... the obesity can be overcome through exercise and portion control (for someone prone to overeating, then exercise is probably even more important)........... the myth that "I have a genetic tendency to obesity therefore there's nothing I can do about being obese" is probably what needs to be challenged the most. Just because you're genetically predisposed to something doesn't mean it's impossible to mitigate that thing through controlling the environmental factors that interplay with the genetic factors. In the case of obesity that means ensuring an active lifestyle and good portion control.
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You might want to look at the genetics of satiety and the interplay of that with foods that increase appetite and perhaps contrast it with food reward behavior:
http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/20133398795.html;jsessionid=3E5B7F21417F77E785D934FFC33F81D0
The regulation of feeding behavior consists of a complex interaction between nutrients in the blood, peripheral hormones, neuropeptides and a number of different brain areas. Together, this system works to initiate feeding when feeling hungry and to stop eating when feeling satiated, thereby maintaining a healthy body weight in normal weight individuals. However, anorexia patients persistently override signals of hunger, whereas obese people continue to override signals of satiety. The rewarding properties of food and motivation related to food are therefore also important factors in the regulation of feeding behavior. In this chapter we will review the role of different genes in hunger and satiety signaling as well as food reward and food-motivated behavior. We will first describe the animal models that have been used to study genes involved in feeding behavior and then review the knowledge obtained from genetic studies in humans.
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jc.2008-0472
Conclusions: We have used a unique dataset to examine the relationship between a validated measure of children’s habitual appetitive behavior and FTO obesity risk genotype and conclude that the commonest known risk allele for obesity is likely to exert at least some of its effects by influencing appetite.
If you really want to complicate it and move into relatively new areas of research, look at epigenetic possibilities. MyFitnessPal's spell check doesn't even know what the word means yet:
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/21036330/reload=0;jsessionid=pIenBZ9F1a77r1pUTBlT.22
The etiology of obesity is multifactorial, involving complex interactions among the genetic makeup, neuroendocrine status, fetal programming, and different unhealthy environmental factors, such as sedentarism or inadequate dietary habits. Among the different mechanisms causing obesity, epigenetics, defined as the study of heritable changes in gene expression that occur without a change in the DNA sequence, has emerged as a very important determinant. Experimental evidence concerning dietary factors influencing obesity development through epigenetic mechanisms has been described. Thus, identification of those individuals who present with changes in DNA methylation profiles, certain histone modifications, or other epigenetically related processes could help to predict their susceptibility to gain or lose weight. Indeed, research concerning epigenetic mechanisms affecting weight homeostasis may play a role in the prevention of excessive fat deposition, the prediction of the most appropriate weight reduction plan, and the implementation of newer therapeutic approaches.0 -
And here you go again, judging me. I know nothing about you, you know nothing about me. What we do know, is I saw no humor in the posting, and you did. And you think it is important that I understand that. Ok! I am on the joy train! Gloves are off. Your understanding of what a stand-up is or is not, does not even make sense. You never as much as saw my act let alone know anything about me if you did. If you are listening, than you would know, that there is not a comic on earth that does not self- depurate to get a laugh. We all did it. There may be exceptions, but so very few. It is a job for us, to get laughs. At all expense.
But that is not what this thread should be about. No I did not find it funny. And you should refrain from labeling people you disagree with. It is a stupid internet forum, you are not a keen psychologist into the minds of people by a comment.
I will continue to like or dislike what I please. And when I get responses I consider wrong, I will answer them. As will you. You may want to lay off analyzing people in a thread. It is nonsense.
I guess that is why you have a picture of your upper body as a photo- as the strongest muscle in your body is certainly not your brain. Now don't be offended, it was just in jest! Have a thick skin if you do not like what I said, that way, you take your own advice.
For the people that claim they gain while eating at a TDEE.
No, I am not a doctor.
I DO however, understand the basic way world works in such situations.
As it goes, I do have a metabolic tester and have looked in to the area a bit.
How have you got your metabolism tested? If you have used an online calculator, but DO have issues, then the online calculator is wrong.
Despite having said metabolic tester (I'm not a very good salesman), I DO advise people that the best method to work out TDEE is CICO.
Taking from a poster above who gains on 1200 and loses on 800. If this happens consistently as an average over long periods, TDEE is probably somewhere around 1000 - certainly between the two. Of course, logging food isn't that accurate.
Many foods can be 50% unrepresented - suddenly a TDEE of 1500. HOWEVER, that doesn't matter. Because if they eat the up to a total of foods which claim to have 1000 calories and weight stays the same, that IS a useful TDEE number as it reflects their environment.
Then that's rather sad, to my mind. There does seem to be a trait in some stand ups that they can give it out, but not take it.And I am happy to tell you, I was a stand-up comic for 15 years.
If you've been around stand ups for a good bit of time and STILL get offended by a joke which happens to hit home, then you definitely need a thicker skin, I'd say. (Appreciated British Stand Ups tend to be particularly offensive.)
So, yes, it IS about you having a thin skin, to my mind. Over the years I've been offended by many such things that could target me. Over the years I've realised I'd prefer the freedom of speech for people to say them than to restrict the things that personally offend me.
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MrsRatfire:
When you hit quote to respond to somebody, go all the way to the bottom (without deleting anything) and type your response after the last /quote that will be in brackets.0 -
I forgot to respond when you chimed in that the photo was not appropriate in this thread, at the time. I did appreciate your support. And your picture inspires awe! You look fantastic. You have faced the odds and beat them. Great job!
My parents were overweight. My mother had diabetes, they both had high blood pressure.
2 of my 4 siblings were overweight as children.
3 of my siblings are currently overweight, 2 of them have dangerously high blood pressure, one of which is only 30.
My maternal grandparents were both over weight, both with diabetes, and high blood pressure, my grandfather suffered a serious stroke.
My paternal grandmother also had high blood pressure and a minor stroke.
Several of my first cousins are not just overweight but morbidly obese, all under 40.
I have never been more than a few pounds overweight and that was related to pregnancies, and honestly it hasn't been that hard to maintain a healthy weight. I do have borderline high blood pressure though, which sucks.
So maybe there is some genetic predisposition but my genetics did not "make" me fat, obviously.
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I am shocked at how unkind several people have been to this young lady. Because you had weight and took it off, therefore, she must be wrong. She has a disorder, which she is working on to the point where she is almost goal weight! And in the universe, you have decided that what she is saying is not possible? Do you know anything about the disorder called POTS or any other disorder that can put someone in her situation. Try not to forget, that anyone with an actual disorder or mis-firing in the genetics- by a missing of defective enzyme, protein etc. has a critical illness they fight for life. Most people with metabolic disorders die rather young. Her 9 pound to lose is the least of her worries.
I certainly know nothing about many things, but I know quite a bit about genetics. You may want to read some of the abstracts and documents by the MEDICAL community- not the first thing that pops up on google about a disease such as this woman has. Be awful glad you were spared of it as well.
How the hell are you going to tell me I haven't been at a deficit and I don't gain eating my TDEE when I log EVERYTHING I put in my mouth, weigh everything, wear a pedometer, wear a HRM when I'm working out?
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Because you would be violating the laws of the universe if what you claim were true. It is *impossible* - you may as well be claiming you have a hammer that, when you drop it, floats in the air.
If your logging is telling you otherwise, there is something wrong with your logging - period. Full stop.
Sorry, but what I'm telling you is the truth.
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the truth hurts….
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She can be in this situation. You can eat low calories and exercise and still not lose weight with her disorder. Do you really know anything about it or any other metabolic disorder? I didn't. And have done YEARS of research on just a few of them and have barely scratched the surface.
He body does not utilize the fuel into useable energy. Your body will make a choice, to use the energy though the cellular process and the mitochondria as well as many other components. It will then decide to store some as fat. It will convert to muscle or the cells in the bone marrow to lay down new bone, what ever it needs, it gets coded and shipped somewhere.
Her body takes some of the fuel your body would send somewhere else, and sends it to body fat is error! Some people with these diseases are pick thin and just as ill as the bodies that go excess. Some of us oscillate this span and have been both.
A metabolic disorder is not what you pop up on google. It is not something an in office test for the metabolism with a gadget will give you an result for. It is extremely complex.
I was very surprised in this forum, how many people not only believe they are doctors, but geneticists to boot. Geneticists are usually involved in research and have multiple P.h.d's as well as M.D.'s. They are in such high demand, people travel across the country to see one. The tests are so expensive and not covered by insurance unless you are an infant or a child (in general), many people are left untreated. Often to die. Usually due to organ failure and not a clue as to what could or could not have been done.
I feel I am seeing too many expert opinions and there were more than one person, discrediting this girl. I would rather everyone please stop doing this to her. If you want someone to point at and call whatever, use me. It is much easier for me to take.
I've been at a deficit for the past 3 years and STILL gained weight because of my endocrine disorders.
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You haven't been at a deficit.I gain eating my TDEE
No, you do not.
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LOL. How the hell are you going to tell me I haven't been at a deficit and I don't gain eating my TDEE when I log EVERYTHING I put in my mouth, weigh everything, wear a pedometer, wear a HRM when I'm working out?
I know what I do every day. You don't. So you are beyond ignorant. When you have spent years in and out of hospitals and doctors offices, seeing every specialist under the sun, having every test performed, having blood work every couple days, collecting 24 hr urine tests, undergoing MRIs, CT scans, x-rays, ultrasounds, colonoscopies, endoscopies, laparoscopies, cancer scares, etc. to find out why you've gained 100+lbs and experience the symptoms I do every day for NO REASON, THEN you can open your mouth. But until then, be quiet because your commentary isn't needed, wanted, or in any way helpful.
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If you're gaining you have not...by definition...been eating at a deficit. The results determine whether or not you were eating at a deficit, eating your TDEE, or eating in a surplus, not a guess at what your TDEE should be. Estimates are just estimates regardless of your medical conditions.
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Nobody has said her condition does not effect her or her weight, all they stated was the laws of energy. Due to her condition she may very well have a very low TDEE compared to others, this would make it appear that when she eats at 1200 calories she is in a 1000 calorie deficient but in reality her TDEE due to her condition is only 1000...this would then her 1200 calorie diet is actually a surplus of 200 calories a day for her. Due to how low that number is it may be near impossible to get all of her nutrients and feel full and lose weight. Knowledge in this instance has nothing to due with health it is a simple law of energy, it can not be created out of nothing and fat is a reserve of energy at its simplest form. The defensiveness of some people actually astounds me, the facts are if you have a disorder that effects your burning of energy you may very well have a close to impossible time maintaining weight let alone losing, but laws of science dictate the reason for this is you are using energy at a much reduced rate next to the population which calculators and estimates are based off....you sit outside the curb. Is this fair? NO Is this your fault? NO but it is how it is.
MrsRatfire, I applaud you for defending yourself and others but the main of this conversation seems to have been lost.
here is an excerpt stating the 3 laws of energy, and yes a calorie is a unit of energy.
"In a discussion of energy the basic understanding revolves around the fact that there are three laws. These are simple laws dealing with energy and can be defined as follows:
First Law
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. This means that you can’t make energy out of nothing— the total amount of energy in the universe is a constant. (Please note that this applies to a closed system – the Earth is not a closed system, the Earth receives energy all the time from the Sun).
Second Law
The second law refers to the state of energy and is reflected in a measurement of the degree of disorder, (a measurement called entropy). When you burn a lump of coal, (a material in a very ordered state) a change occurs which results in a more disordered state and you can never combine the resultant products, (heat, gases, etc.) back to form that original lump of coal, (First Law). The Universe, according to scientific evidence, is winding down, the sun will eventually go out, (in billion of years so we don’t have to worry right now). In summary when we use an energy source it is not destroyed but enters a more disordered state. This makes the energy less available to us and in converting the energy to power means some loss.
Third Law
As we mentioned the universe is winding down. The third law is that everything does come to a stop only when the temperature is at −273.15°C on the Celsius scale.[1] This equates to −459.67°F. This is called absolute zero and is where the entropy measurement is 0, (Zero).
Together, these laws help form the foundations of modern science. These laws are absolute physical laws – everything in the observable universe is subject to them. Like time or gravity, nothing in the universe is exempt from these laws."0
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