Calorie Restriction Diet for Anti-aging

Jestinia

You're right, as far as I know, no human studies exist, at least as of yet. I do remember the Sikh marathon runner from the Horizon program Eat, Fast, & Live Longer who obviously did have lean body mass and also ate 'child size portions' of food. But he might also be a winner in the genetics lottery. One person proves nothing.

It's interesting, though. Maybe in coming decades we'll know for sure one way or the other. Meanwhile, nothing wrong with people who are already restricting calories because we need to lose weight working on optimal nutrition while we're at it, is there? I should have done it sooner. I have no intention of going below the healthy BMI minimum, though. I'll let other, more adventurous humans experiment on themselves to that extent.

- removing quotes -

Thank you - that's my point. I'd like to see the significant research completed one way or another. I'm totally neutral on the subject BUT it does seem to be counter productive to current best practices on physical activity, maintaining LBM, etc.

(and I think you mean BMR and not BMI). Generally speaking, for someone slightly active, a 25% cut is not below BMR.

Whoops, meant BMR, yes. Was too hasty in my posting.

Also, I like food. I really like unhealthy, tasty food. Here's hoping they get on with their research, then discover how to cheat the grim reaper in a way that doesn't involve a perpetually empty belly!

rosebette

What makes this thread any different from the other trolls, on MFP that eat 1200 or below a day? As you should all know by now, it is against MFP rules to promote, an unhealthy diet. This thread has been reported.

This is not a "Troll." I think it's a legitimate question related to eating and aging that has been raised by some studies. The purpose of Calerie is to make sure that the foods consumed are nutritionally dense, not to eat an "unhealthy" diet.. I think it's a worthwhile discussion, not a recommendation. CR does not recommend people go below a BMI of 18.5, in other words, not be underweight, but on the leaner side of normal. It also doesn't recommend going below 1000 calories. It's also not recommended for people who are extremely physically active. We're not talking about eating 700 calories a day and exercising for 2 hours. It's not a diet choice I would make now because I am too active, but it is something to think about for those of us who are aging and are no longer able to keep up the same level of activity. Come on, folks, we know what those people with the elastic waist pants look like going into those "early bird special" restaurants. I don't want to be one of those people.

EvgeniZyntx

I don't know if that's totally true or not. I read a couple of books on it and the science seems solid. But on the other hand, there are studies that show that underweight people die more easily during serious illnesses like cancer because they don't have any weight to spare. Of course, theoretically you have a lower risk of serious illness with CR. I therefore think that the jury is out.

If you want to do it though, I think the best way is the Every Other Day Diet or the 5:2. Same metabolic/health results, and you don't have to go hungry every day.

What couple of books?

EvgeniZyntx

What makes this thread any different from the other trolls, on MFP that eat 1200 or below a day? As you should all know by now, it is against MFP rules to promote, an unhealthy diet. This thread has been reported.

This is not a "Troll." I think it's a legitimate question related to eating and aging that has been raised by some studies. The purpose of Calerie is to make sure that the foods consumed are nutritionally dense, not to eat an "unhealthy" diet.. I think it's a worthwhile discussion, not a recommendation. CR does not recommend people go below a BMI of 18.5, in other words, not be underweight, but on the leaner side of normal. It also doesn't recommend going below 1000 calories. It's also not recommended for people who are extremely physically active. We're not talking about eating 700 calories a day and exercising for 2 hours. It's not a diet choice I would make now because I am too active, but it is something to think about for those of us who are aging and are no longer able to keep up the same level of activity. Come on, folks, we know what those people with the elastic waist pants look like going into those "early bird special" restaurants. I don't want to be one of those people.

Except none of those studies are geared to the obese or overweight (what you condescendingly call "elastic waist pants" people).

scruffypaws1

THERE ARE NUMEROUS STUDIES NOW SHOWING THIS DOESN T WORK. IN FACT THE ORIGINATOR OF THE THEORY DIED AT 63 AFTER FOLLOWING LOW CALORIE DIET FOR 20 YEARS

EvgeniZyntx

THERE ARE NUMEROUS STUDIES NOW SHOWING THIS DOESN T WORK. IN FACT THE ORIGINATOR OF THE THEORY DIED AT 63 AFTER FOLLOWING LOW CALORIE DIET FOR 20 YEARS

What studies? Why so hangry?

SLLRunner

THERE ARE NUMEROUS STUDIES NOW SHOWING THIS DOESN T WORK. IN FACT THE ORIGINATOR OF THE THEORY DIED AT 63 AFTER FOLLOWING LOW CALORIE DIET FOR 20 YEARS

I think the originator dying at 63 is enough evidence for me to NOT do this silly diet. After all, I am 52. :frown: :ohwell:

rosebette

What makes this thread any different from the other trolls, on MFP that eat 1200 or below a day? As you should all know by now, it is against MFP rules to promote, an unhealthy diet. This thread has been reported.

This is not a "Troll." I think it's a legitimate question related to eating and aging that has been raised by some studies. The purpose of Calerie is to make sure that the foods consumed are nutritionally dense, not to eat an "unhealthy" diet.. I think it's a worthwhile discussion, not a recommendation. CR does not recommend people go below a BMI of 18.5, in other words, not be underweight, but on the leaner side of normal. It also doesn't recommend going below 1000 calories. It's also not recommended for people who are extremely physically active. We're not talking about eating 700 calories a day and exercising for 2 hours. It's not a diet choice I would make now because I am too active, but it is something to think about for those of us who are aging and are no longer able to keep up the same level of activity. Come on, folks, we know what those people with the elastic waist pants look like going into those "early bird special" restaurants. I don't want to be one of those people.

Except none of those studies are geared to the obese or overweight (what you condescendingly call "elastic waist pants" people).

No, but following this program would prevent me from becoming one of them! When you think about it, as you age, your metabolic rate drops. If you continue eating the same number of calories that you ate when you were 25 at age 60, you will gain weight; then, add in the factor that most of us, even if we can stay active, can't be as active at that age as we were as young people. So, while such a program might not cause someone to lose weight, it might help an older person maintain.

Also, for the poster who said the originator died at 63 after following this diet, I'd like to see the link for that piece of information.

Jestinia

THERE ARE NUMEROUS STUDIES NOW SHOWING THIS DOESN T WORK. IN FACT THE ORIGINATOR OF THE THEORY DIED AT 63 AFTER FOLLOWING LOW CALORIE DIET FOR 20 YEARS

I thought the founder was Walford, who developed ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease) and died at age 79. But as one site pointed out, the un-Biblical age of 79. Not exactly breaking records. However, I believe he was in his fifties when he started. What if he'd started younger? We don't know. Which is the big problem with following this. We don't know.

Also, it was pointed out that the idea is to not drop below 18.5 bodyfat for women, but from articles I've read, some men and women do go below their recommended BMI. That said, BMI isn't as accurate in all cases as it could be, too. I know as a woman I have a very easy way of knowing if I go too far with a diet. I presume I'll lose my monthlies. That is something I would notice and it would cause me to hastily correct the problem.

rosebette

THERE ARE NUMEROUS STUDIES NOW SHOWING THIS DOESN T WORK. IN FACT THE ORIGINATOR OF THE THEORY DIED AT 63 AFTER FOLLOWING LOW CALORIE DIET FOR 20 YEARS

I thought the founder was Walford, who developed ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease) and died at age 79. But as one site pointed out, the un-Biblical age of 79. Not exactly breaking records. However, I believe he was in his fifties when he started. What if he'd started younger? We don't know. Which is the big problem with following this. We don't know.

Also, it was pointed out that the idea is to not drop below 18.5 bodyfat for women, but from articles I've read, some men and women do go below their recommended BMI. That said, BMI isn't as accurate in all cases as it could be, too. I know as a woman I have a very easy way of knowing if I go too far with a diet. I presume I'll lose my monthlies. That is something I would notice and it would cause me to hastily correct the problem.

On the other hand, ALS is not a condition of aging, so it is probably unrelated to the CR diet. I have read of some who go below 18 BMI, but the CR Support Community site doesn't recommend it. Also, if a woman begins the diet during menopause or perimenopause, when the metabolism is starting to slow, then losing one's monthlies may not even be an issue. The CALERIE and CR site both caution that women who want to become pregnant should not follow the diet, since it may impact fertility.

ninerbuff

Its a stone cold fact that older people that have spent the time during their life building muscle, maintaining it, and staying relatively lean, and staying in shape look and act the youngest.

Cripes look at Tony Horton; the dude's 55 years old. He looks younger than most 40 year olds.
Jack Lalanne practically lived to 100, and was very active til the day he died.

At 50 now, people at my gym usually peg me for late 30's because I'm still doing workouts that 30 year olds might be trying to achieve. The other day as part of my work out, I was doing 3 sets of 10 box jumps on the 36" box, then proceeding to a burpee with a pushup directly to jumping off the floor to a pull up for 10 reps. So yeah, I'm with you on the longevity. I'm looking to be fit till I die which in my family seems to be late 80's and older.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

rosebette

Its a stone cold fact that older people that have spent the time during their life building muscle, maintaining it, and staying relatively lean, and staying in shape look and act the youngest.

Cripes look at Tony Horton; the dude's 55 years old. He looks younger than most 40 year olds.
Jack Lalanne practically lived to 100, and was very active til the day he died.

At 50 now, people at my gym usually peg me for late 30's because I'm still doing workouts that 30 year olds might be trying to achieve. The other day as part of my work out, I was doing 3 sets of 10 box jumps on the 36" box, then proceeding to a burpee with a pushup directly to jumping off the floor to a pull up for 10 reps. So yeah, I'm with you on the longevity. I'm looking to be fit till I die which in my family seems to be late 80's and older.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I admit that I'm pretty fit for an old broad, but when I do burpees now, my knees hurt and I get light-headed (from shifting from prone to standing position so quickly). This didn't happen 10 years ago. Yes, many of today's boomers are more fit than people of the same age in the past, and even fitter than some younger people. Still, aging is a reality, as is that what we can do at 45 or 55 may not be the same as what we can do at 65. It doesn't mean we should become couch potatoes, but we do need to acknowledge the reality.

Jestinia

THERE ARE NUMEROUS STUDIES NOW SHOWING THIS DOESN T WORK. IN FACT THE ORIGINATOR OF THE THEORY DIED AT 63 AFTER FOLLOWING LOW CALORIE DIET FOR 20 YEARS

I thought the founder was Walford, who developed ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease) and died at age 79. But as one site pointed out, the un-Biblical age of 79. Not exactly breaking records. However, I believe he was in his fifties when he started. What if he'd started younger? We don't know. Which is the big problem with following this. We don't know.

Also, it was pointed out that the idea is to not drop below 18.5 bodyfat for women, but from articles I've read, some men and women do go below their recommended BMI. That said, BMI isn't as accurate in all cases as it could be, too. I know as a woman I have a very easy way of knowing if I go too far with a diet. I presume I'll lose my monthlies. That is something I would notice and it would cause me to hastily correct the problem.

On the other hand, ALS is not a condition of aging, so it is probably unrelated to the CR diet. I have read of some who go below 18 BMI, but the CR Support Community site doesn't recommend it. Also, if a woman begins the diet during menopause or perimenopause, when the metabolism is starting to slow, then losing one's monthlies may not even be an issue. The CALERIE and CR site both caution that women who want to become pregnant should not follow the diet, since it may impact fertility.

I sure as heck hope I'm not anywhere near menopause or even perimenopause just yet, although it could happen, my mom was relatively young when she started going through it. I wasn't even thinking about the possible impact women on who could get pregnant, thankfully that isn't one I have to worry about ever again. At least with this diet, though, she wouldn't be malnourished. A lot of women on the SAD diet don't take vitamins, get pregnant and shouldn't.

Which reminds me, the stricter CRON way seems to be to not take a multivitamin but there is no way I'm even trying to meet all my nutritional needs without one, at least not right now. It's a heroic feat for me just to get Cronometer to tell me I'm over %90 of nutrients met with the darn multivitamin. I don't know how people do it.

heybales

No, but following this program would prevent me from becoming one of them! When you think about it, as you age, your metabolic rate drops. If you continue eating the same number of calories that you ate when you were 25 at age 60, you will gain weight; then, add in the factor that most of us, even if we can stay active, can't be as active at that age as we were as young people. So, while such a program might not cause someone to lose weight, it might help an older person maintain.

The metabolic rate for populations drop as they get older, and they also find the amount of moving around drops, and exercise, ect.

People individually though have easily kept their metabolic rate up (measured by RMR) by keeping an active lifestyle and not losing the muscle mass their peers are.

Now, I'll agree very near end of life, even for them, at some point the metabolism just takes a nose dive and they just can't keep up with prior level of activity.

But slowing metabolism having to happen as you age is a myth just like your HRmax will be going lower very linear as you age - but not if you fit and active, then it doesn't.

As to intensity, that is true, can't keep the same pace or intensity level up. But as many endurance sports show, it's when you get older that you get better at that anyway (up to a point).
But a change in intensity isn't that huge of a calorie difference.

Besides, doesn't eating dinner before 4 pm help with eating less anyway? Or is it the senior prices doing that which helps?

rosebette

No, but following this program would prevent me from becoming one of them! When you think about it, as you age, your metabolic rate drops. If you continue eating the same number of calories that you ate when you were 25 at age 60, you will gain weight; then, add in the factor that most of us, even if we can stay active, can't be as active at that age as we were as young people. So, while such a program might not cause someone to lose weight, it might help an older person maintain.

The metabolic rate for populations drop as they get older, and they also find the amount of moving around drops, and exercise, ect.

People individually though have easily kept their metabolic rate up (measured by RMR) by keeping an active lifestyle and not losing the muscle mass their peers are.

Now, I'll agree very near end of life, even for them, at some point the metabolism just takes a nose dive and they just can't keep up with prior level of activity.

But slowing metabolism having to happen as you age is a myth just like your HRmax will be going lower very linear as you age - but not if you fit and active, then it doesn't.

As to intensity, that is true, can't keep the same pace or intensity level up. But as many endurance sports show, it's when you get older that you get better at that anyway (up to a point).
But a change in intensity isn't that huge of a calorie difference.

Besides, doesn't eating dinner before 4 pm help with eating less anyway? Or is it the senior prices doing that which helps?

Also, senior portions can help. When I go out to eat with my mom, there is a significant difference in portion size.

heybales

Also, senior portions can help. When I go out to eat with my mom, there is a significant difference in portion size.

Ah ha! Never went to dinner that early to discover, so that's why cheaper, though it still sounds like a better deal than even that difference, according to my upper '80's neighbors, who comes back from dinner at 5:30.

delicious_cocktail

I recall the study. The results were certainly interesting. Unfortunately, to calibrate intake for present-day humans, we would have to undergo a fairly expensive and well-controlled very long term study.

Only way to produce a Lazarus Long is with an Ira Howard and a several-thousand-year head start.

DebbieLyn63

Genetics help too. But smaller and lighter people have a correlation of having longer lives.

I would be willing to wager that people who aren't overfat that spend the most of their time in a calorie surplus have the longest life expectancy of all. Time spent ina calorie surplus is fantastic for you body. Anyone that has experience with this knows this to be true. Literally everything works better.

Surplus would put fat on the body though and increase weight if continued.. Unless there's some way to break the rule of thermogenesis.

Periodic cutting.....

I'll agree. It's what I do every year.

Its a stone cold fact that older people that have spent the time during their life building muscle, maintaining it, and staying relatively lean, and staying in shape look and act the youngest.

Cripes look at Tony Horton; the dude's 55 years old. He looks younger than most 40 year olds.
Jack Lalanne practically lived to 100, and was very active til the day he died.

I was curious about how old Jack Lalanne was when he died, and came across some interesting info about his diet:

"Diet

LaLanne blamed overly processed foods for many health problems. For most of his life, he advocated primarily a meat and vegetable diet; eating meat three times per day with eggs and fruit in the morning and many servings of vegetables in the afternoon and evening.[21] In his later years, he appeared to advocate a mostly meatless diet but which included fish (see Pescetarianism),[22][23] and took vitamin supplements.[24][25][26]

In his television programs, he recommended the following meal plan; Breakfast: fruit, eggs and/or meat, whole wheat toast and coffee/skim milk. Lunch: Big salad, and meat/fish/cottage cheese. Dinner: Big salad, two vegetables, meat/fowl, fruit, and yogurt.

He ate two meals a day and avoided snacks. His breakfast, after working out for two hours, consisted of hard-boiled egg whites, a cup of broth, oatmeal with soy milk and seasonal fruit. For dinner, he and his wife typically ate raw vegetables and egg whites along with fish. He did not drink coffee.[5]

LaLanne said his two simple rules of nutrition are: "if man made it, don't eat it", and "if it tastes good, spit it out."[27] He offered his opinion of the average person's diet:

Look at the average American diet: ice cream, butter, cheese, whole milk, all this fat. People don't realize how much of this stuff you get by the end of the day. High blood pressure is from all this high-fat eating. Do you know how many calories are in butter and cheese and ice cream? Would you get your dog up in the morning for a cup of coffee and a donut? Probably millions of Americans got up this morning with a cup of coffee, a cigarette and a donut. No wonder they are sick and fouled up.[1]"

Sounds like he ate a very low calorie diet. I am amazed that he had the energy to work out 2 hours a day on that little food. And no coffee!

Galatea_Stone

Frankly, I don't give a damn about the science. It sounds miserable.