Question about TDEE -20%

mzbek24

I'm eating at TDEE- 20%, which for me is 1593 calories a day. I put that I exercise 3 times a week.

I realise we're not supposed to eat back any of the exercise calories on this method, but I just calculated how much I ate and exercised last week, and if I averaged it out, I would only be eating about 1305 a day! I feel physically and mentally that's not enough, and not what I wanted to achieve when I made the decision to move from 1200 to TDEE -20%

According to my HRM, I burned about 2015 calories from exercising my three times. I'm not certain I would always burn 2015 per week, it is normally around 1100.
Obviously these numbers are never exactly correct. I'm probably both eating more than I know, and burning less than the HRM really says, but I did actually feel weak, dizzy, hungry and moody and that's enough of a measure for me to know I wasn't really eating enough for the exercise I did.

Do I need to change my exercise level to a higher one so that I'll be having more calories? Or am I supposed to just go with it, not eat the exercise calories back and it doesn't matter how many calories I burn in a week?

KarenJanine

If you have a higher than normal burn day try eating back some calories so that you are netting your BMR.

If you are consistently having to do this then you need to recalculate your TDEE at a higher activity level.

SezxyStef

Well number one TDEE-20% is probably too high of a deficet with 11kg to lose...that is about 1lb a week...perhaps TDEE-15 or 10%.

And your burns are high and probably over estimated 3 workouts total of 2015 means you burned about 700 each one?

What are you doing for exercise?

As you indicated as well they aren't normal...1100 a week is normal...

And if you are using TDEE then no you do not eat back exercise calories...I do that method and burned about 2000 calories on Sunday moving a house full of people, and that is under estimating because it was a 7hour move and that is less than 5hours worth. I did not eat them back...

asciiqwerty

I did actually feel weak, dizzy, hungry and moody

^^^ then you didn't eat enough

TDEE doesn't suit everyone

if you're not burning a steady weekly amount then TDEE may not be right for you

mzbek24

Well number one TDEE-20% is probably too high of a deficet with 11kg to lose...that is about 1lb a week...perhaps TDEE-15 or 10%.

And your burns are high and probably over estimated 3 workouts total of 2015 means you burned about 700 each one?

What are you doing for exercise?

As you indicated as well they aren't normal...1100 a week is normal...

And if you are using TDEE then no you do not eat back exercise calories...I do that method and burned about 2000 calories on Sunday moving a house full of people, and that is under estimating because it was a 7hour move and that is less than 5hours worth. I did not eat them back...

Oh ok. How do you work out whether TDEE -20% is too much? What I am set to now is only a 0.5kg loss per week, which I thought would be a pretty good pace.

My only exercise at the moment is cycling, in an area with lots of hills. I did one workout that my HRM said was over 1200 calorie burn, and two smaller ones.
I didn't eat any back, just to see how the week played out and how I felt overall.

fdagasdgfasdgsda

Why don't you try getting your metabolism up to maintenance slowly increasing by 100 calories each week until you hit it, maintain that for two weeks until your metabolism catches up.

Get your macro's down. 1g protein/lb bodyweight at least, .4g fat/lb bodyweight (important for headaches,dizziness, and binges).

Then when you are comfortable with all that, start your cut again by dropping 100 calories...wait for the scale to not move for a week and then drop again.

Patience and time will get you there, too much loss at once and your body will overcome that by lowering your metabolism (starvation mode) until you plateau and make yourself sick by eating too low of calories to lose weight.(muscle too)

Edit****

I can't see your diary, but are you also weighing everything to the gram on a food scale? (oils used to cook, butter and the bread, any food that enters your mouth or any ingredient that is added to a meal should be weighed.)

I wasn't doing this for two months and that was essentially wasted time as the "serving size" recommendations are VERY off.

SezxyStef

Well number one TDEE-20% is probably too high of a deficet with 11kg to lose...that is about 1lb a week...perhaps TDEE-15 or 10%.

And your burns are high and probably over estimated 3 workouts total of 2015 means you burned about 700 each one?

What are you doing for exercise?

As you indicated as well they aren't normal...1100 a week is normal...

And if you are using TDEE then no you do not eat back exercise calories...I do that method and burned about 2000 calories on Sunday moving a house full of people, and that is under estimating because it was a 7hour move and that is less than 5hours worth. I did not eat them back...

Oh ok. How do you work out whether TDEE -20% is too much? What I am set to now is only a 0.5kg loss per week, which I thought would be a pretty good pace.

My only exercise at the moment is cycling, in an area with lots of hills. I did one workout that my HRM said was over 1200 calorie burn, and two smaller ones.
I didn't eat any back, just to see how the week played out and how I felt overall.

Typically TDEE-20% is 1lb a week weight loss...TDEE-15% is 3/4 lb...1/2kg is about a pound. If you switch it to 1/4kg that would be close to TDEE-15 or 10%.

HRM aren't as accurate as people would like to believe as well...if they have a chest strap and are used for steady state cardio apparently they are "great", I personally wouldn't consider a hilly bike ride as steady state cardio as there are too many ups and downs.

That being said if you were tired and no energy you can eat more than TDEE-20% when you feel like that. It's not eating exercise calories back it's eating to fuel your workouts. I call them hungry days and I get them occassionaly from lifting weights...on those days I eat what I need to feel better. Typically more protien and fibre.

SezxyStef

Why don't you try getting your metabolism up to maintenance slowly increasing by 100 calories each week until you hit it, maintain that for two weeks until your metabolism catches up.

Get your macro's down. 1g protein/lb bodyweight at least, .4g fat/lb bodyweight (important for headaches,dizziness, and binges).

Then when you are comfortable with all that, start your cut again by dropping 100 calories...wait for the scale to not move for a week and then drop again.

Patience and time will get you there, too much loss at once and your body will overcome that by lowering your metabolism (starvation mode) until you plateau and make yourself sick by eating too low of calories to lose weight.(muscle too)

Edit****

I can't see your diary, but are you also weighing everything to the gram on a food scale? (oils used to cook, butter and the bread, any food that enters your mouth or any ingredient that is added to a meal should be weighed.)

I wasn't doing this for two months and that was essentially wasted time as the "serving size" recommendations are VERY off.

I have been told 1gram of protien for each pound of LBM is plenty...

As well why go through this process? It is easy enough to figure out your deficet without all this playing around with numbers.

If people did this they would spend way too much time and would give up.

Websites like iifym and scooby are estimates but are a good starting point so why not just start there and use their numbers as opposed to spending weeks/months trying to figure it out by changing goals all the time.

mycupyourcake

You are doing TDEE-20% so do not eat back your exercise calories. Eat your TDEE-20%! You are weak and hungry and tired right now because you are averaging 200-300 calories below that.

HereWeGoAgain7

So granted that you have lot less to lose than I do; that I don't know your current stats (height/weight/age); and that your diary is not open for review...here is my numbers from Scooby to give you an example.

192.4 lbs (87.5 kilograms) height 66 inches (167.6 centimeters)
3-5 hrs/wk of moderate exercise
BMR 1665; TDEE 2580; TDEE-20% 2064; TDEE-15% 2193; TDEE-10% 2322
5/6 hrs/wk of strenuous exercise
BMR 1665; TDEE 2872; TDEE-20% 2279; TDEE-15% 2441; TDEE-10% 2582

So the honest suggestions I would give you are to:
#1: Verify your BMR and TDEE numbers again
#2: Honestly evaluate your exercise exertion
#3: Choose either TDEE-% or MFP calculations
#4: Consider opening your diary for viewing (either to your friends and carefully add people to see what they are doing or to everyone and use common sense to weed out the reasonable/unreasonable advice.

ETA: suggestions didn't show for some reason :grumble:

tjohnoconnor

20% is a little aggressive with how much you want to lose. Why don't you back off to 10 or 15%

mzbek24

Why don't you try getting your metabolism up to maintenance slowly increasing by 100 calories each week until you hit it, maintain that for two weeks until your metabolism catches up.

Get your macro's down. 1g protein/lb bodyweight at least, .4g fat/lb bodyweight (important for headaches,dizziness, and binges).

Then when you are comfortable with all that, start your cut again by dropping 100 calories...wait for the scale to not move for a week and then drop again.

Patience and time will get you there, too much loss at once and your body will overcome that by lowering your metabolism (starvation mode) until you plateau and make yourself sick by eating too low of calories to lose weight.(muscle too)

Edit****

I can't see your diary, but are you also weighing everything to the gram on a food scale? (oils used to cook, butter and the bread, any food that enters your mouth or any ingredient that is added to a meal should be weighed.)

I wasn't doing this for two months and that was essentially wasted time as the "serving size" recommendations are VERY off.

I have been told 1gram of protien for each pound of LBM is plenty...

As well why go through this process? It is easy enough to figure out your deficet without all this playing around with numbers.

If people did this they would spend way too much time and would give up.

Websites like iifym and scooby are estimates but are a good starting point so why not just start there and use their numbers as opposed to spending weeks/months trying to figure it out by changing goals all the time.

Yes, that's what I'm afraid of. That I would totally lose motivation.
I have been at it this time for the last 70 days, weighing everything as well, and have seen progress that I haven't in a couple of years.

Maybe it is the wrong thing not to do it, but I'm really scared to go back to eating at maintenance and stop seeing any kind of changes. It would possibly derail me again...would take me about two or three months to do it if I were to gradually eat up to it and stay there a couple of weeks, then start cutting it.

3dogsrunning

I agree with a lot of what has been posted above - maybe move to TDEE - 10 or 15%.
Also that HRMs aren't totally reliable either.

You also need to bear in mind that TDEE is an estimate, it should be used as a starting point, not a fixed point. Adjust up or down as needed. If you are feeling tired and weak at that number, adjust upward slightly and evaluate. Keep adjusting until you find the spot where you can balance performance and weight loss. Also keep in mind that you need to observe these things over weeks, like at least 4, not just week to week.

asciiqwerty

the "serving size" recommendations are VERY off.

FYI serving size on US packaging labels indicate the portion size that *the average* adult *usually* eats (or owns up to eating) of this product in one go
it has nothing to do with any form of healthy or recommended intake

fdagasdgfasdgsda

the "serving size" recommendations are VERY off.

FYI serving size on US packaging labels indicate the portion size that *the average* adult *usually* eats (or owns up to eating) of this product in one go
it has nothing to do with any form of healthy or recommended intake

Oh I meant the fact that 1 slice of bread can be 120 calories. Or if you weigh the two slices of bread you use to make a sandwich I've had many times where it has been weighed out to 3 actual servings of bread. (by the gram) So instead of 240 calories someone without a scale would be logging they would actually be eating 360 calories. And this goes for any food that I've eaten. Some are under some are more.

mzbek24

I've just changed it to -15%, which came up at 1740.

SezxyStef

I've just changed it to -15%, which came up at 1740.

There you go...that will work great.

I eat just over that and exercise at least 5x a week maybe more depends on my weekends and I am not hungry, weak or lethargic.

I often fill in the last couple hundred with treats....

mzbek24

I should probably do the increase gradually, right?

deksgrl

I should probably do the increase gradually, right?

It's not that big a jump to have to worry about upping it gradually.