Expert on what shouldn't be in poor people's grocery carts.
Replies
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HA. I LOVE the onion, but it's sad that some people actually think like this.
I have been on food stamps in the past. And I have an iPhone, so I'm *sure* people were judging me.
I was working, had to have an iPhone for said job, and then was laid off from that job. I wasn't getting any bites for employment, so I applied for food stamps until I got an income. I was only on them for 3 months, but they helped me *so* much.
It's there for people who need it in times of need (as I was) and people shouldn't be ashamed.
BTW - Here in CA you get SNAP benefits which is FOR FOOD ONLY. You can't even get away with buying pre-made food (like mashed potatoes or chicken salad) at the deli section of the grocery store. ONLY groceries.0 -
I think it's a case of people being more aware of the bad apples than the ones who are truly and honestly deserving of the help. I personally work in social housing, and I know that many of my tenants actually need the help. For those people I agree, people need to back the **** off of judging them - they're doing the best they can, and most are not in bad situations due to their own fault.
However, I also know a lot of people who DON'T deserve the help. I have some extended cousins who are on welfare, and they're the 3rd or 4th generation to be on it. And it's not because of some family genetic disease, or inability to work, etc. It's because they've decided it's simply easier to live on welfare and never have to work for a living - they get paid more on welfare than they would working minimum wage jobs, and they can take jobs on the side and get paid under the table when they feel like it. Meanwhile they have plasma televisions, nice cars, take vacations, etc. Now normally I don't care how people live or manage their money, etc. BUT I do think there's a certain amount of leeway for people to comment on this kind of abuse because they money they're taking is taxpayers' money - it's OUR money. It could be going to other deserving people, or into other deserving programs. They're living in rent-geared-to-income apartments (often with rents as low as $85 a month for a beautiful 3 bedroom townhouse) for which there is a 3-5 year waiting list of people who desperately need those places to live. And instead these people are living there their entire lives, never working a single day and living it up on taxpayers' dollar. That's not right, and that's an injustice I think it's everyone's duty to comment on.
That said, I do think people need to be careful and aware of the differences between the deserving and the abusers. It's sometimes hard to tell the difference based on nothing more than a single encounter out in public - as other posters have said, maybe the reason they have a nice phone or their kid has an iPad is that it was a gift, etc. The only reason I feel comfortable to criticize the lifers I mentioned above is because I know them personally and have myself heard them talk about how they abuse the system - I know 100% that they're not deserving. Unless you feel you have that kind of knowledge, no one should be able to judge someone on welfare - you don't know the whole story enough to make a judgment.0 -
Sadly, there are people like this. I am on food stamps. During one online conversation I was talking about making pepper steak. I was told that if I were on food stamps, I didn't deserve to have steak. Never mind that it was the kind of steak that you get in the 5 meats for $20 bundle . . . I was poor and should be relying on eggs and 70/30 hamburger, with the occasional can of tuna and commodity cheese for my protein. I think he would have had a stroke if I told him I bought the $5.99 bag of frozen shrimp, too--but the way I measure it out, those shrimp last for six meals. It's sad--people complain if poor people buy packaged food, they complain if we buy fresh veggies, they complain if we buy meat, they complain if we buy a gallon of milk . . . and Heaven forbid if you buy cans of soda or potato chips because you're going to be driving longish distances and it makes more sense to do that than to buy them at the gas station when the munchies hit.
I had a friend who was on food stamps. She was disabled and could not work or do much of anything. Her aunt bought her a really nice cell phone and paid the bill for almost four years (until my friend died) because she never wanted my friend to be out of contact (due to her health issues) and she wanted her niece to have something to do other than sit and watch television. You'd be amazed at the nasty looks and comments she got on the rare occasions she went out.
People just need to mind their own business.
I hate when people say things like "How are you poor? You wear nice clothes!"
Psst, it's called "Goodwill."0 -
Screw what's in people's carts, I'd rather they stopped being lazy and put the damn things away in the cart returns. Stop inconveniencing other people because you can't spare the 15 seconds and 1 calorie it would take to walk 30 feet to put it away.
/end rant0 -
The only thing that bothers me is when somebody in the grocery line buys a few junk, name brand items and then uses the change from the food stamps to buy two cartons of cigarettes.
I've actually seen this, more than once.
The $50 mani-pedi with arcrylic nails and designs are also a bit over the top.
I used to work at a free clinic where folks were really poor but didn't have government assistance. I had to admire the tenacity of these people, many were older illegals that came to live with there kids. Also a lot of them came from Africa and had spent time starving and being assaulted in refugee camps.
I had some people who had lost their entire families in Africa. Very sad.
I always tried to help them with healthy food shopping because so many had diabetes. They all saw our diabetes nutritionist,too.
I didn't need to do all that and it certainly ate up a lot of my day, besides doing all the social work needed to get them necessary medical resources.
I've spent a lot of my life being quite broke and I'm pretty creative with the food and clothing for this reason. We still eat a lot of beans and garden greens because my husband has been a full-time student for 8 years and I've been out of work for a disability.
We are basically living on my VA disability check and some extra money that my husband gets for a forum that he owns.
I work in International Humanitarian Aid and develop nutritional Aid Programs for WHO affiliated organizations in many countries. I am not American and do not live there, but I do know that no one in the US gets change in cash for their food stamps, because people use a kind of debit card that is issued for exactly that purpose. These changes from vouchers that might require change in cash were changed to non-cash transactions ( in quite a few countries ) to exactly avoid that kind of fraud. I am not accusing you of making this up, but wonder how long ago ( a couple of decades maybe ? ) you had that experience ?0 -
...anyone else seeing the problem there?
Yes. Singular negative anecdotes to discuss entrenched systemic issues beyond the scope of this website.
I apologize for not comparing it to the positives of the welfare/food stamp program- of which there are several. No one's forcing you to read what I write, so.
And if I managed to misinterpret the tone of this response then I blame the two monitors and thousands of pages of technical coding between us. I also work outside in the sun, and northeast Phoenix isn't exactly overcast and cool right now.
I wasn't discrediting the system, as you could probably see when I stated that he was a mooch and most likely screwed someone that actually could have used the program to better themselves, whereas he was a mooch.
Do you feel particularly smart when you sass people over the internet?0 -
I find it difficult to believe that we can individualize poverty and determine from singular examples who, or which circumstances, are "deserving."
I certainly can't single out categories of individuals in our society who are deserving of extreme hunger, homelessness, untreated mental and physical illness, family estrangement, or the like.
And just ask yourself what it means about our culture IF--and I say IF with extreme skepticism, cash benefits add up to the earnings from a full-time minimum wage job. Minimum wage earnings to support a family is a joke. Most full-time minimum wage workers ALSO qualify for public assistance. But back to freewheeling cash-aid lifestyles: You have to have an extremely large household to get over $1000/month in public cash assistance. Here's an example of the phat income gained by households that qualify for public cash assistance: http://www.massresources.org/tafdc-benefits.html.
7-8 people living on $1037-1097 a month. To include transportation, clothing, utilities, basic hygiene, etc. Food, let's suspend belief and assume that SNAP benefits actually suffice to feed an entire family for an entire month.
That's hardly a rich life. And let's not forget that no matter how much people may want to frolic in the sweet comforts of subsistence aid...there is a lifetime cap of 60 months on cash assistance. Period.
That people have become mired in entrenched poverty and all of the social systems that rely on economic stratification is not evidence of a character flaw. It's evidence of a sick society.0 -
Do you feel particularly smart when you sass people over the internet?
Probably says little about me that you feel "sassed." Not that I know what that means, but I honor your experience.
Having said that. I acknowledge that you made some concessions about the uniqueness of that case. But that's the thing--everyone's unique until generalizations are made.
Hence The Onion piece, and all of the comments that followed.0 -
And this is where people minding what others are doing with their money get it wrong.
The cash that comes from those cards is NOT from the recipient's Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program funds (SNAP, formerly known as food stamps). That would be their TANF or TDAP cash assistance, formerly known as welfare, or possibly unemployment, SSI, or SSDI benefits.
It's money--their money--to be spent as they see fit.
People with cash benefits can pull their cash assistance from grocery store debit, ATM machines, etc. in addition to swiping their cards like anyone else does to spend cash from an account.
What they do with that cash is for them to decide.
That.0 -
Do you feel particularly smart when you sass people over the internet?
Probably says little about me that you feel "sassed." Not that I know what that means, but I honor your experience.
Having said that. I acknowledge that you made some concessions about the uniqueness of that case. But that's the thing--everyone's unique until generalizations are made.
Hence The Onion piece, and all of the comments that followed.
Oh he was unique, alright. Still is.0 -
With everyone saying "I know so and so on welfare with a fancy this or that" Or fancy clothes, phone, etc... I'd think twice. Where I live, we have something called freecycle.com and you wouldn't *believe* the amazing things I've gotten on that site. Everyone on it is giving things away 100% FREE.
In total, I've probably gotten a total of $10,000 worth of free things for my home in the past year simply because the person was getting rid of it, and I was there to get it...
There are a lot of ways to get things very cheaply or for free if you live in a large metropolitan area. Including large plasma TVs.0 -
With everyone saying "I know so and so on welfare with a fancy this or that" Or fancy clothes, phone, etc... I'd think twice. Where I live, we have something called freecycle.com and you wouldn't *believe* the amazing things I've gotten on that site. Everyone on it is giving things away 100% FREE.
In total, I've probably gotten a total of $10,000 worth of free things for my home in the past year simply because the person was getting rid of it, and I was there to get it...
There are a lot of ways to get things very cheaply or for free if you live in a large metropolitan area. Including large plasma TVs.
I don't make broad generalizations about everyone based off my experience with the guy I've known for close to fifteen years.
It might not translate over the internet but I'm not ignorant. I understand things happen and circumstances get complicated and sensitive, trust me. I merely stated I knew someone that was literally milking the system at one point because he's a mooch. I figured this was an appropriate thread to do that in. I know people on SNAP that are wonderful people, I know people on Unemployment that are wonderful people. The good outweigh the bad- this guy was just of the bad.0 -
You can if your card has both food/cash.
And this is where people minding what others are doing with their money get it wrong.
The cash that comes from those cards is NOT from the recipient's Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program funds (SNAP, formerly known as food stamps). That would be their TANF or TDAP cash assistance, formerly known as welfare, or possibly unemployment, SSI, or SSDI benefits.
It's money--their money--to be spent as they see fit.
People with cash benefits can pull their cash assistance from grocery store debit, ATM machines, etc. in addition to swiping their cards like anyone else does to spend cash from an account.
What they do with that cash is for them to decide.
I never said I cared what they spend the cash on. I didn't know it came from a separate source. You learn something new every day.0 -
With everyone saying "I know so and so on welfare with a fancy this or that" Or fancy clothes, phone, etc... I'd think twice. Where I live, we have something called freecycle.com and you wouldn't *believe* the amazing things I've gotten on that site. Everyone on it is giving things away 100% FREE.
In total, I've probably gotten a total of $10,000 worth of free things for my home in the past year simply because the person was getting rid of it, and I was there to get it...
There are a lot of ways to get things very cheaply or for free if you live in a large metropolitan area. Including large plasma TVs.
Isn't freecycle wonderful? I live in a tiny town and even here we can get some amazing stuff.0 -
The good outweigh the bad- this guy was just of the bad.
What sucks about that guy, in addition to all of the things you mentioned, is that he wasn't the actual recipient of public assistance.
From what you shared, he was taking advantage of a woman and her family, who received assistance.0 -
What sucks about that guy, in addition to all of the things you mentioned, is that he wasn't the actual recipient of public assistance.
From what you shared, he was taking advantage of a woman and her family, who received assistance.
Yes, and no. Neither here nor there but she didn't have a family. The daughter was his own from a previous failed marriage. As for the woman I can't speak for her, but I do know with his track record he was attracted to women that were less than stellar themselves. She did get tired of him and leave him eventually, though, so kudos to her.
Regardless, he abused the system.0 -
With everyone saying "I know so and so on welfare with a fancy this or that" Or fancy clothes, phone, etc... I'd think twice. Where I live, we have something called freecycle.com and you wouldn't *believe* the amazing things I've gotten on that site. Everyone on it is giving things away 100% FREE.
In total, I've probably gotten a total of $10,000 worth of free things for my home in the past year simply because the person was getting rid of it, and I was there to get it...
There are a lot of ways to get things very cheaply or for free if you live in a large metropolitan area. Including large plasma TVs.
Isn't freecycle wonderful? I live in a tiny town and even here we can get some amazing stuff.
Freecycle is amazing, so is craigslist for clothing and furniture items. I have found so many good bargains at goodwill, Salvation army (bought lots of name brand shirts, some with tags still on them). Its where all my old clothes will be going now that i'm losing weight.0 -
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Didn't read the article, based on what's written in the thread:
Frankly, it's none of anyone business what people on benefits/food stamps choose to buy with them. I can't believe people are being so judgemental over it. As if life's not hard enough already when you're poor, that they have to be an object of public scrutiny. So what if a poor person wants to eat steak? FFS perhaps they saved up for several weeks to be able to afford it. It's none of anyone else's business. They're not stealing it. They're not asking for extra benefits or food stamps to be able to eat it. If they've managed to budget to eat steak once in a while then they must be really good at planning their finances and that's likely to help them to get out of poverty in the long term, so should be seen as a good thing.0 -
Excellent post. (Though I'm sorry you've had to deal with rough comments.)Sadly, there are people like this. I am on food stamps. During one online conversation I was talking about making pepper steak. I was told that if I were on food stamps, I didn't deserve to have steak. Never mind that it was the kind of steak that you get in the 5 meats for $20 bundle . . . I was poor and should be relying on eggs and 70/30 hamburger, with the occasional can of tuna and commodity cheese for my protein. I think he would have had a stroke if I told him I bought the $5.99 bag of frozen shrimp, too--but the way I measure it out, those shrimp last for six meals. It's sad--people complain if poor people buy packaged food, they complain if we buy fresh veggies, they complain if we buy meat, they complain if we buy a gallon of milk . . . and Heaven forbid if you buy cans of soda or potato chips because you're going to be driving longish distances and it makes more sense to do that than to buy them at the gas station when the munchies hit. the nasty looks and comments she got on the rare occasions she went out.0 -
I know some people take advantage of aid programs, but I really do choose to believe that the majority of people on assistance would rather not be on it, and instead would like a well-paying job and affordable daycare for their kids. I had a lady in line behind me at the grocery store today who was obviously trying to stretch her dollars. She was buying the damaged vegetables that are 75% off, and the expiring chicken legs that are half price and the stale bread and the fake cheese slices. She also had 2 packages of Easter treats that were on clearance and a little pink unicorn toy thingie that was half off. This was a woman who was obviously trying to feed at least once child, maybe 2, the best way she could. Instead of looking at her basket and thinking "she really shouldn't be buying toys and candy and what's up with that fake cheese crap" I asked the cashier to ring her stuff in with mine, wished her a pleasant day and went on my merry way. Is it possible she took this sudden $30 windfall and bought a bottle of wine or a pedicure? I certainly hope so because I think she could use a break. Why do some people choose to think the worst of everyone in the system because of a few bad apples?
Edited to add: End of rant.
You are unique! Lovely gesture, your compassion makes me smile :-)0 -
Damned if you do, and damned if you don't. I have never understood why it matters so much to others what someone else is doing, eating, who their attracted to, religion/non/religion,etc.
My theory is, if a person thinks the person is affluent or gainfully employed they are nosey enough to see how they got there and if they are being frugal as a way of getting there BUT if they think the person is poor or living on welfare, they are nosey because they are in part supporting that person through their tax dollars so feel they have the right to judge.0 -
What a judgemental website. Whose business is it what in an individual's cart? We might raise an eyebrow if we see six cases of fizzy drink, but to lay them down on a website? I'd be mortified if I felt someone was judging me and my character on my shopping basket. Food stamps or not, it's irrelevant.
Folks judge the shopping baskets of others all the time. This is especially so if they know you eat a different way, or are on food stamps or a health buff or anything else they can come up with. Call it human curiosity. Very little of our food dollars are spent in a conventional grocery store so when we do shop at one, it tends to be what some might call oddities in comparison to their food choice. Looking at my cart, they may think we survive on nothing but dry beans not knowing that I'm doing a bit of stocking up. I've had some rather interesting questions but then I chock that up to living in a small town where everyone knows everyone's business.0 -
You can if your card has both food/cash.
And this is where people minding what others are doing with their money get it wrong.
The cash that comes from those cards is NOT from the recipient's Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program funds (SNAP, formerly known as food stamps). That would be their TANF or TDAP cash assistance, formerly known as welfare, or possibly unemployment, SSI, or SSDI benefits.
It's money--their money--to be spent as they see fit.
People with cash benefits can pull their cash assistance from grocery store debit, ATM machines, etc. in addition to swiping their cards like anyone else does to spend cash from an account.
What they do with that cash is for them to decide.
Well, there is the viewpoint that technically it is the taxpayer's money so those receiving it should use personal responsibility in the way they spend the taxpayer's money. When we were raising our kids and working bloody hard to do so, it was a bit discouraging to have the welfare kids put the working man's kids down because they didn't have the latest, greatest whatever and that type of thing still goes on. There's a lot of regular Joe Blows who work hard, long hours to have a nice lifestyle while being forced through taxes to support folks capable of working that choose welfare as a lifestyle instead. The fact is, there is this type of resentment and it's going away no time soon so the judging will continue.0 -
Well, there is the viewpoint that technically it is the taxpayer's money so those receiving it should use personal responsibility in the way they spend the taxpayer's money. When we were raising our kids and working bloody hard to do so, it was a bit discouraging to have the welfare kids put the working man's kids down because they didn't have the latest, greatest whatever and that type of thing still goes on. There's a lot of regular Joe Blows who work hard, long hours to have a nice lifestyle while being forced through taxes to support folks capable of working that choose welfare as a lifestyle instead. The fact is, there is this type of resentment and it's going away no time soon so the judging will continue.
Interestingly enough, plenty of "welfare kids" are in "the working man's" family. More accurately, the working woman's family, or just plainly, working families. Minimum wage income still qualifies hundreds of thousands of people across the country to receive SNAP and cash income benefits for themselves and their children.
Benefits they pay for as "the taxpayer."
These polarities are outdated, as is the myth of the "welfare lifestyle," though I understand that they will persist.
Since 2008, more middle-class families have come to rely upon public benefits and community assistance. These people live in nice homes, drive nice cars, use nice technology, have nice things--except sufficient income. So they are the recipients their taxes went to support, and if they're anything like me when I was jobless for over a year, they're glad those programs exist when they're needed.0 -
Considering how many military families are on public assistance including SNAP and WIC, I'd slap down anyone who claimed that people were on it because they were "lazy" or "unwilling to work".0
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Considering how many military families are on public assistance including SNAP and WIC, I'd slap down anyone who claimed that people were on it because they were "lazy" or "unwilling to work".
There you go! I'd love to work, but there are not enough jobs around here for people who need to support themselves. So I tend a goat herd for six hours a week at $10 (as well as sometimes putting in a few hours extra every now and again when she needs help vaccinating and kidding and such). I also walk a dog for $20/week. I also do contract work evaluating article content (basically being an editor) at $3.24/article and writing SEO articles for $25/article. I have written one novel that's on Kindle right now and am working on the final draft of a second one. I'm starting to offer dog obedience classes here in town. I've also applied for readmission to the university I used to attend, to try to finish my degree.
I wish someone would tell me to my face how I'm on food stamps because I'm lazy and unwilling to work.0 -
Sadly, there are people like this. I am on food stamps. During one online conversation I was talking about making pepper steak. I was told that if I were on food stamps, I didn't deserve to have steak. Never mind that it was the kind of steak that you get in the 5 meats for $20 bundle . . . I was poor and should be relying on eggs and 70/30 hamburger, with the occasional can of tuna and commodity cheese for my protein. I think he would have had a stroke if I told him I bought the $5.99 bag of frozen shrimp, too--but the way I measure it out, those shrimp last for six meals. It's sad--people complain if poor people buy packaged food, they complain if we buy fresh veggies, they complain if we buy meat, they complain if we buy a gallon of milk . . . and Heaven forbid if you buy cans of soda or potato chips because you're going to be driving longish distances and it makes more sense to do that than to buy them at the gas station when the munchies hit.
I had a friend who was on food stamps. She was disabled and could not work or do much of anything. Her aunt bought her a really nice cell phone and paid the bill for almost four years (until my friend died) because she never wanted my friend to be out of contact (due to her health issues) and she wanted her niece to have something to do other than sit and watch television. You'd be amazed at the nasty looks and comments she got on the rare occasions she went out.
People just need to mind their own business.
So much this. I am on food stamps. And yeah, I buy 'junk'. I can't afford to buy steak, because our food stamps were cut. We only get $75 now. We were affected by the cut. For some asinine reason, they think we have enough money to feed ourselves. But we really, really don't.
I get disgusted looks from people when they see me pull out my SNAP card regardless of what I buy. If I dare to buy a steak, someone says something. If I buy a pack of hot dogs, someone says something. When I buy a diet mountain dew because I need the caffeine to get through my two 3 hour classes (for a total of 6 hours) on Thursdays... someone says something.
It's ridiculous. Some people are more worried about how we eat than how they themselves eat. And the 'it's my tax money I have a right to worry' bit grinds my gears, too. You know who else pays taxes? My mom. Who DOES work. Because when you're on food stamps you either have to be working or be actively seeking work. So people on food stamps pay just as many taxes as the rest of everyone else..
And my mom definitely isn't lazy. She spends ALL day working. She pretty much works 24/7. Sadly, I'm not exaggerating. She is so stressed out now that I fear for her health.0 -
Considering how many military families are on public assistance including SNAP and WIC, I'd slap down anyone who claimed that people were on it because they were "lazy" or "unwilling to work".
We are a military family, and the military encourages WIC, at least in my experience of delivering two babies at military treatment facilities and listening to a presenter tell us "you've earned it, might as well take advantage of it if your pay qualifies even if you don't need it." WIC does not take BAH (basic allowance for housing) pay into account when calculating eligibility, which means WIC-eligible military families could be bringing in hundreds to thousands of dollars more per month than WIC calculates (depending on location) and still qualify for the program. Sadly, there are military families who will go after every bit of available assistance or freebie that they qualify for, whether they need it or not. The military is a microcosm of society and there are people there who will play the system just like any place else.0
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