Is walking a legitimate exercise?
Replies
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meh I didn't read those articles but been doing this stuff enough to know that some cardio / running is good even for guys trying to put on muscle. Jim Wendler even advocates sprints and hill running and he's huge. There's a difference between marathon training and sprints or even medium distance runs. Look at football players and track athletes, they all run.
been bodybuliding for years and never hear that about running. I run all the time. lolIt's exercise. Like any other exercise it has it's place and benefits.
I agree 100%. I'm just curious about other's justification for saying it isn't.
I just put that in the same category as the "running will make you a woman" trash talk from the anti-running part of the bodybuilding community. It's trash talk and nothing more.
Spend more time on bodybuilding.com or t-nation. Or not. Okay, they often have some good articles, at least t-nation does, but there's also plenty of laughable filler
I think you are referring to the T-nation article, "The Jogging Delusion"
Or "Cardio Kills," "The Death of Steady State Cardio," "Regular Cardio Will Make You Fat," . . .0 -
meh I didn't read those articles but been doing this stuff enough to know that some cardio / running is good even for guys trying to put on muscle. Jim Wendler even advocates sprints and hill running and he's huge. There's a difference between marathon training and sprints or even medium distance runs. Look at football players and track athletes, they all run.
been bodybuliding for years and never hear that about running. I run all the time. lolIt's exercise. Like any other exercise it has it's place and benefits.
I agree 100%. I'm just curious about other's justification for saying it isn't.
I just put that in the same category as the "running will make you a woman" trash talk from the anti-running part of the bodybuilding community. It's trash talk and nothing more.
Spend more time on bodybuilding.com or t-nation. Or not. Okay, they often have some good articles, at least t-nation does, but there's also plenty of laughable filler
I think you are referring to the T-nation article, "The Jogging Delusion"
Or "Cardio Kills," "The Death of Steady State Cardio," "Regular Cardio Will Make You Fat," . . .
Like I said, I file it all under "trash talk."0 -
It's exercise. Like any other exercise it has it's place and benefits.
I agree 100%. I'm just curious about other's justification for saying it isn't.
Even a sedentary activity level gives you “credit” for about 5,000 steps. If I set my activity level to sedentary and then logged 5,000 steps as exercise (let’s say I wore a pedometer all day) …..I would be double counting.
Sedentary, lightly active…..these are activity levels. I certainly wouldn’t log standing, although this burns calories too.....it's already accounted for.
Many people walk, just for the sake of walking….a previous poster above calls this conscious walking (top of page 14). Conscious walking is above and beyond one’s normal activity level. This is exercise. Pushing yourself further and faster can make this good exercise.0 -
Heck, one of those "walk at home" videos of Leslie Sansone's gets me up to the 150s.
That's not being "aerobic', that's being in very poor physical condition.
As a gateway to more meaningful exercise and as a way to keep from sitting around all day, walking has value, but in general that value is highly over-estimated by MFPers. In terms of creating a deficit, you're only burning 35 calories per 100 pounds of bodyweight per mile.
Those doing 3+ hour hikes across terrain (which I love) are of course in a separate category again.
This was many pages ago, but I want to reply to it.
My HRM gave me near 200 calories for one of her videos this week. And being in the 150s is absolutely in the aerobic conditioning range, which one is supposed to spend 30 minutes a day in?
It's not the heart rate that's the issue - it's hitting that heart rate while engaging in low intensity activity that's the issue.
Hitting 150 bpm while running 5km is one thing - hitting it while walking a mile is something else entirely.
PS Heart rate and calorie burn correlate poorly, most of the time. You're going to burn the same amount of calories walking X miles regardless of your heart rate. You want to get that rate *down*.0 -
I walk a hell of a lot of km's a day. Today it's 15 miles. Tomorrow it will be about the same..... Sunday I'll be doing 112km at least....
so that's about 70 miles.
There is a world of difference between hoofing 70 miles and walking around the block.0 -
hell yes.0
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meh I didn't read those articles but been doing this stuff enough to know that some cardio / running is good even for guys trying to put on muscle. Jim Wendler even advocates sprints and hill running and he's huge. There's a difference between marathon training and sprints or even medium distance runs. Look at football players and track athletes, they all run.
been bodybuliding for years and never hear that about running. I run all the time. lolIt's exercise. Like any other exercise it has it's place and benefits.
I agree 100%. I'm just curious about other's justification for saying it isn't.
I just put that in the same category as the "running will make you a woman" trash talk from the anti-running part of the bodybuilding community. It's trash talk and nothing more.
Spend more time on bodybuilding.com or t-nation. Or not. Okay, they often have some good articles, at least t-nation does, but there's also plenty of laughable filler
I think you are referring to the T-nation article, "The Jogging Delusion"
Or "Cardio Kills," "The Death of Steady State Cardio," "Regular Cardio Will Make You Fat," . . .
The T-Nation article referred to that as "a substandard way to build endurance." Also "a dumb, unquestioned tradition."
Trash talk, but it can confuse people who aren't familiar with the research and the mindsets behind the arguments.0 -
yes, it's exercise. Get outside and go for a darn walk, people. It reduces your stress level (okay, if you stay off the freeway). For me, the faster I walk, say for 15 - 20 minutes, the happier I am and more focused on tasks when i'm done w/the walk.
It's not my only form of exercise. But damnit, I love seeing people out walking because it's a start. It's not their *kitten* in a chair judging.
Cheers! 0 -
I've been doing 3 to 5 miles walking in an evening 3 or 4 times during the week for the past year now and on a Saturday do a 10 mile in the morning and i do the gym once a week. Before i started MFP i'd lost 56lbs and its still dropping....i'm not built for running, hate doing it in the gym, so it's a great option for me and costs nothing to do. I now generally average 4 miles an hour so still managing to sweat a bit and that's on the flat, when heading into the hills i definitely feel the burn
I still stick to my daily calorie allowance and mostly don't touch the ones i gain on the walks, seems to be working.
It does also help that i live next to a canal and the people and wildlife i get to meet and see is fantastic.0 -
i don't measure normal walking (ie to the streetcar, shopping, at work, etc) i do measure the 7 km a day i walk home the 4-6 km a day i walk my dog, the 1-14 km walk i take on a Saturday and/or Sunday morning. I don't log the calories because i accounted for them in a conservative manner when calculating my TDEE. I walk a lot faster now than when i started doing this in January (partially because it's easier to walk faster now that the ice/snow is gone) Definitely I burn less calories than I did at the start - I weigh less- My heart also doesn't hit the same rate and I don't work up as much of a sweat - I'm fitter. It's still exercise and the heart association agrees with me. I'm not a Gym rat (I hate the Gym always have - even when I Skied competitively and for a living in the off season i never went to the gym, i Ran, I ran with packs , I ran up and down the Ski hill - I never went to the gym- and that will never be my exercise, My fast walking is faster than some peoples jogging (seriously I pass joggers on one path i use on saturday mornings)
The only reason I would join a gym now would be for access to a pool or a sauna. I do get resistance training at home I don't log it at all because weight work burns little in the way of calories, it tones great though (I get mine the old way situps pushups etc, and i do some curls with light-ish weights)
At this point walking is my primary exercise- though I am changing it slowly to running and cycling as I get fitter and my body can handle the stresses0 -
yes it is exercise. but watch this http://bit.ly/1iVzT3a and you will know how to maintain your fit body shape. You’ll also see how this unusual tip allows you to strategically eat the foods you crave most, and still experience the slimmest, sexiest waistline of your life. Plus, you’ll also learn which common foods touted as “healthy” can make losing a single pound virtually impossible for women.0
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If you walk far enough.
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my 2 cents... IF you weigh 300 lbs... there's a reason why THAT is hard to do... YOU are carrying a lot of extra weight Captain obvious right? BUT if you are a marathon runner and have like 10% BF... chances are a walk is NOT much of a challenge...
SO visit your definition of "exercise" BY MY definition... exercise is any physical activity that challenges you to exceed your body's capacity to DO that activity...
SO a 300 lb person can be challenged to walk a flight of stairs... and that's exercise... where a marathon runner might load up a weight vest with an extra 60 lbs and "do" 10 flights of stairs to be challenged...
in the same breath I would dare anyone "in shape" and at a healthy BMI .. to pack on enough weight to weigh 300 lbs.. then go for a walk and say that it wasn't exercise.0 -
short answer.. it's relative to the person exercising.0
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I've been doing 3 to 5 miles walking in an evening 3 or 4 times during the week for the past year now and on a Saturday do a 10 mile in the morning and i do the gym once a week. Before i started MFP i'd lost 56lbs and its still dropping....i'm not built for running, hate doing it in the gym, so it's a great option for me and costs nothing to do. I now generally average 4 miles an hour so still managing to sweat a bit and that's on the flat, when heading into the hills i definitely feel the burn
I still stick to my daily calorie allowance and mostly don't touch the ones i gain on the walks, seems to be working.
It does also help that i live next to a canal and the people and wildlife i get to meet and see is fantastic.
Nice first post (and great profile pic)
Welcome to the forum
Beautiful area you're from BTW0 -
in the same breath I would dare anyone "in shape" and at a healthy BMI .. to pack on enough weight to weigh 300 lbs.. then go for a walk and say that it wasn't exercise.
Excellent point the walking haters miss0 -
Heck, one of those "walk at home" videos of Leslie Sansone's gets me up to the 150s.
That's not being "aerobic', that's being in very poor physical condition.
As a gateway to more meaningful exercise and as a way to keep from sitting around all day, walking has value, but in general that value is highly over-estimated by MFPers. In terms of creating a deficit, you're only burning 35 calories per 100 pounds of bodyweight per mile.
Those doing 3+ hour hikes across terrain (which I love) are of course in a separate category again.
This was many pages ago, but I want to reply to it.
My HRM gave me near 200 calories for one of her videos this week. And being in the 150s is absolutely in the aerobic conditioning range, which one is supposed to spend 30 minutes a day in?
It's not the heart rate that's the issue - it's hitting that heart rate while engaging in low intensity activity that's the issue.
Hitting 150 bpm while running 5km is one thing - hitting it while walking a mile is something else entirely.
PS Heart rate and calorie burn correlate poorly, most of the time. You're going to burn the same amount of calories walking X miles regardless of your heart rate. You want to get that rate *down*.
I can't run yet without my heart going nuts (way higher than the 150s). That doesn't mean that I don't get the same cardiovascular benefits that anyone else getting their pulse up to the 150s gets. Just because it doesn't take running for me to get there doesn't negate it as aerobic exercise one way or the other. 30 minutes at 150 is 30 minutes at 150 as far as the cardiac muscles are concerned.
As to heart rate and calories, please show me your references for that. I have always read that an increased heartrate is correlated to increased calorie burn. I have never read anything that contradicts the idea that increased heartrate = greater calorie burn.
I don't have an issue with saying that HRMs overestimate to some extent, since they're not calorimeters, but they're not totally useless in that respect either (especially when calibrated with individual VO2 and HR maxes). As a stand-in for measuring oxygen consumption during activity, I think the correlation is probably pretty strong. I'm open to learning something new, though.0 -
The hate seems to be for the "Walking has little exercise benefit to me" group. If walking on a flat surface gets your heart rate up, great! For some it's great exercise. For many of us, not so much.Excellent point the walking haters miss
1. Weight Loss - If you subscribe to calories in vs. calories out, it doesn't matter if you eat 1800 calories or you eat 1900 calories and then walk away 100 calories. Both net the same loss.
2. Aerobic Conditioning - For many of us, walking on the terrain readily available to us (i.e., relatively flat surfaces) even at max pace doesn't increase our heart rates to the aerobic zone.
I love hiking--when mountains and hills are available. I've walked great distances with a kid on my back, but that transforms walking into a higher-impact activity, not as friendly on joints. I can't find a good exercise reason to walk around my block. I've shifted to biking, an elliptical, or kettlebell training.0 -
That doesn't mean it's not a legitimate exercise just because it's harder on your joints. Running is also a great exercise that's even harder on the joints. But nobody questions it's legitimacy.. I've walked great distances with a kid on my back, but that transforms walking into a higher-impact activity, not as friendly on joints. I can't find a good exercise reason to walk around my block. I've shifted to biking, an elliptical, or kettlebell training.0 -
Walking is good for you. The faster and longer you go the better the exercise. Its better than sitting in front of the TV and can only do you more good!0
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What? For real they said walking isn't exercise? Idiots!!!!! Sorry but that made mad. I've seen lots of people lose weight with walking and eating a proper nutrition. Grrrrr....What do they say to the disabled? Grrrrr0
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PS Heart rate and calorie burn correlate poorly, most of the time. You're going to burn the same amount of calories walking X miles regardless of your heart rate. You want to get that rate *down*.
So, because I'm a giant nerd, I have honestly been searching for any evidence to support this claim you've made of HR/calorie burn not being correlated. I can't find any.... but I did find this.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15966347
"Based on these results, we conclude that it is possible to estimate physical activity energy expenditure from heart rate in a group of individuals with a great deal of accuracy, after adjusting for age, gender, body mass and fitness."
r=0.857 without VO2 max accounted for
r=0.913 with VO2 max accounted for
That's some pretty strong correlation.0 -
Any activity that burns more calories than sitting on the couch does counts as exercise.0
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Walking is good for you. The faster and longer you go the better the exercise. Its better than sitting in front of the TV and can only do you more good!
With fibro and arthritis head to toe, a new knee replacement, and anotner new knee this fall I got up off the couch 26 days ago.
It feels good to lose weight too. I am down 14 lbs. So for me walking is exercise. Its my only exercise. It may mean nothing to you but the fact that I can EVEN walk means the world to me.0 -
Walking is good. Not everyone can jog or do other types of excercise. I have a bad back and cannot jog or run like I use to anymore. My Dr. told me walk at least 20 to 30 minutes a day. If walking is not an exercise then why would this site and other sites even have it listed as an exercise? Why would a doctor tell someone to walk a few minutes a day if there were no benefits to it? It is most definitely a form of excercise. :flowerforyou:0
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PS Heart rate and calorie burn correlate poorly, most of the time. You're going to burn the same amount of calories walking X miles regardless of your heart rate. You want to get that rate *down*.
So, because I'm a giant nerd, I have honestly been searching for any evidence to support this claim you've made of HR/calorie burn not being correlated. I can't find any.... but I did find this.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15966347
"Based on these results, we conclude that it is possible to estimate physical activity energy expenditure from heart rate in a group of individuals with a great deal of accuracy, after adjusting for age, gender, body mass and fitness."
r=0.857 without VO2 max accounted for
r=0.913 with VO2 max accounted for
That's some pretty strong correlation.
It's because of all the reasons the HR may change that has no bearing on that VO2.
You can have an elevated HR for so many reasons - and none of them means your muscles are burning more calories for the walking at same pace same weight.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/773451-is-my-hrm-giving-me-incorrect-calorie-burn
But it is the best available outside a face mask and metabolic cart.
You'll find references in almost any study that was including exercise and getting lab tested calorie burn, regarding the state the folks were in. They aren't getting in to why they needed to be in that state, but when you read about what can falsely elevate HR, you'll soon be noticing that fact.
Same way almost every weight loss study starts with folks that have lost or not attempted to lose weight in last 6-9 months - because they realize what state someone could be in that would skew their numbers.
Also - he was talking about walking specifically, and the calcs is more accurate than HRM's.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/774337-how-to-test-hrm-for-how-accurate-calorie-burn-is
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/459580-polar-hrm-calorie-burn-estimate-accuracy-study0 -
my 2 cents... IF you weigh 300 lbs... there's a reason why THAT is hard to do... YOU are carrying a lot of extra weight Captain obvious right? BUT if you are a marathon runner and have like 10% BF... chances are a walk is NOT much of a challenge...
SO visit your definition of "exercise" BY MY definition... exercise is any physical activity that challenges you to exceed your body's capacity to DO that activity...
SO a 300 lb person can be challenged to walk a flight of stairs... and that's exercise... where a marathon runner might load up a weight vest with an extra 60 lbs and "do" 10 flights of stairs to be challenged...
in the same breath I would dare anyone "in shape" and at a healthy BMI .. to pack on enough weight to weigh 300 lbs.. then go for a walk and say that it wasn't exercise.
Exactly this.
In addition, it can obviously start out as a good exercise, but it will become not an exercise, and if you lose and weight and don't increase the pace or the weight carried (not the duration), then it is actually LESS of a workout for you.
Not only are you burning less calories moving less weight, it is no longer an effort for your heart or your muscles.
It would no longer be an exercise for you.
Oh sure, it'll still burn calories, but it's no longer putting a load on your system that even requires the body to maintain it's fitness level even.
If - IF - IF - you lose weight and don't increase the pace or intensity somehow.0 -
PS Heart rate and calorie burn correlate poorly, most of the time. You're going to burn the same amount of calories walking X miles regardless of your heart rate. You want to get that rate *down*.
So, because I'm a giant nerd, I have honestly been searching for any evidence to support this claim you've made of HR/calorie burn not being correlated. I can't find any.... but I did find this.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15966347
"Based on these results, we conclude that it is possible to estimate physical activity energy expenditure from heart rate in a group of individuals with a great deal of accuracy, after adjusting for age, gender, body mass and fitness."
r=0.857 without VO2 max accounted for
r=0.913 with VO2 max accounted for
That's some pretty strong correlation.
It's because of all the reasons the HR may change that has no bearing on that VO2.
You can have an elevated HR for so many reasons - and none of them means your muscles are burning more calories for the walking at same pace same weight.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/773451-is-my-hrm-giving-me-incorrect-calorie-burn
But it is the best available outside a face mask and metabolic cart.
You'll find references in almost any study that was including exercise and getting lab tested calorie burn, regarding the state the folks were in. They aren't getting in to why they needed to be in that state, but when you read about what can falsely elevate HR, you'll soon be noticing that fact.
Same way almost every weight loss study starts with folks that have lost or not attempted to lose weight in last 6-9 months - because they realize what state someone could be in that would skew their numbers.
Also - he was talking about walking specifically, and the calcs is more accurate than HRM's.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/774337-how-to-test-hrm-for-how-accurate-calorie-burn-is
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/459580-polar-hrm-calorie-burn-estimate-accuracy-study
Alright, so here's one with walking included. It still shows a pretty linear correlation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4005766/
The big article in your first linked post also mentions a linear correlation in moderately intense exercise - I agree that it only works for steady-state cardio and not day to day living. The debate is whether walking can count as steady-state cardio for some of us (me). From what my HRM tells me, it absolutely is just as much as hopping on an exercise bike. I breathe hard, I sweat, and my pulse sits in the 150s at 4.0mph rate. To be fair, since this specifically came up with regards to an at-home video, it's light aerobics thrown in with a brisk walking pace. I have to read that whole thing before I respond to it in detail, along with the other ones (if they include additional research) and I'll ask/debate points about them when I do that. Thanks for passing them along.
My original post way back when also stated that I think the benefits will diminish without increasing the effort in some way over time, so we agree there too.0 -
Alright, so here's one with walking included. It still shows a pretty linear correlation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4005766/
The big article in your first linked post also mentions a linear correlation in moderately intense exercise - I agree that it only works for steady-state cardio and not day to day living. The debate is whether walking can count as steady-state cardio for some of us (me). From what my HRM tells me, it absolutely is just as much as hopping on an exercise bike. I breathe hard, I sweat, and my pulse sits in the 150s at 4.0mph rate. To be fair, since this specifically came up with regards to an at-home video, it's light aerobics thrown in with a brisk walking pace. I have to read that whole thing before I respond to it in detail, along with the other ones (if they include additional research) and I'll ask/debate points about them when I do that. Thanks for passing them along.
My original post way back when also stated that I think the benefits will diminish without increasing the effort in some way over time, so we agree there too.
It can indeed if you've gotten over the initial starting exercise hump, where anyone's HR is going to be very elevated for the level of effort, and in 4 weeks could do the exact same workout same weight and HR would be a lot lower.
For me, walking level or slight incline 4 mph is barely touching what is considered the HR-Flex point of change from below exercise to exercise - which studies have found to be about 90 bpm.
That's the point below which HR supplying enough oxygen is way off what is needed. So the formula for say a HRM is invalid for correlating HR with calorie burn below that point. Above that point to your anaerobic line is about a straight line function for calorie burn and HR.
If you have HRM and treadmill access - you can actually come up with your best personal calorie burn formula based on current fitness level.
And then see how it changes. Based on those studies that showed the walking calc is within 4% of lab tested.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales/view/getting-your-personalized-calorie-burn-formula-6636250 -
I walk a hell of a lot of km's a day. Today it's 15 miles. Tomorrow it will be about the same..... Sunday I'll be doing 112km at least....
so that's about 70 miles.
There is a world of difference between hoofing 70 miles and walking around the block.
Since when? Walking 70miles in a day is massive on any account. That is 18-20 hours solid walking. for 18 hours that is 5555 steps per hour.... that's not a slow walk. How many steps you get in a day? 10,000 is the recommended minimum.... I triple that every day just cause I like it. Then I do a workout, and work as well.
Walking is walking, 70 miles is HUGE regardless of how or speed. It's still more exercise than most people do in a week.0
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