Seeking advice for body recomp

raindawg

I need some advice on body recomping. To set it up I'll start out with an overview of where I am at currently:

47 yrs old

5'9 and 160 lbs and been on maintenance for two months and holding steady.

I Lost 40 lbs about five years ago and then tend to fluctuate up and down within a range of 10 to 13 lbs. I’m committed to stopping that cycle.

Exercise habits: been at it five years and am fairly consistent. I exercise four days per week. 30 minutes of cardio and 20 minutes of weights. I have a decent build for my age, but am at 21% bf (according to my scale, which I know isn’t the most accurate way of measuring). My exercise goal to this point has been to maintain health, maintain strength, and keep me from putting on weight.

My new goal: I’d like to have a leaner look, lower bf% but really don’t want to be under 160lbs when all is said and done. I’ve been researching the different approaches which can be pretty confusing and have identified 3 potential options.

1. Lose another five pounds or more of fat which would put me under 20% bf, but at 155 lbs and under I would feel and look extremely skinny, and then try a few bulk and cut cycles back to a 160lb weight goal.

2. At my current weight try a bulk and cut cycle for incremental improvement. I’d probably do a mini version as a first one to see if I got any incremental improvement, ie maybe an eight week bulk cycle followed by a cut (never done one before but would like the challenge of trying one). My fear is doing a longer version than this then finding out nothing changed after all the time invested. I’m patient so as long as I got incremental improvements with shorter cycles I’d be happy to do multiple cycles over the next few years to reach my ultimate goal. My research on MFP though shows a lot of people saying you shouldn’t bulk if you are over 15% bf.

3. Do a recomp plan. This is the confusing one. Because what I read is you can’t add muscle without eating at surplus and you can’t lose fat without eating at a deficit. So I’m not understanding how I lose the fat and gain the lean muscle at the same time while maintaining my weight.

If there’s another option I’m not thinking of please let me know. Would love to hear from people who’ve successfully accomplished this. Especially if you are in my age range.

Kurbol

The scale is very very inaccurate for body fat. I have a smaller waist, more muscle, but my scale says I've gained body fat %. This is simply not possible. I believe the scales basically use a built in table of height and weight and don't really use the conductance much at all. You should try getting calipers. They are still not very accurate, but much better than the scales.

I'm trying a body recomposition plan right now. I've only been doing it for about two weeks, so I can't say if it's working or not. What I do is eat a surplus on workout days (MWF for me) and a deficit on rest days. The idea is that you build muscle on workout days, and lose fat on rest days. I plan to keep with it for at least two months and then evaluate how it's working.

Alassonde

I've been wondering about this as well because I've just started trying to recomp but don't get how you can gain muscle and lose fat.

caesar164

Cardio should be done after weightlifting... And more emphasis should be put on weight training; if you really want to re-comp.?

Kurbol

I don't think it's possible by eating the same every day. You have to have an excess to gain muscle and deficit to lose fat. It just depends on the interval in which you do these things. That's my understanding anyway, I'm not an expert by any means.

raindawg

Cardio should be done after weightlifting... And more emphasis should be put on weight training; if you really want to re-comp.?

Recomp is my new goal, just trying to figure out how to go about it. Curious why cardio after weightflifting and not before?

jimlambrt2

Don't be afraid to do good old fashion bulk/cut cycles. You just have to be patient. Yes, it will suck to feel swollen during the bulk, but set realistic goals and be VERY careful what you eat while bulking.

Here's my story. I'm 49yrs and 5'6". My journey started at 180#. I kept dieting until I was down to 137# and 5%BF. In July, I started my first bulk. I ate "clean" and counted every calorie, with a goal to add no more than 1/2# a week, for a total of 20#. Well, it took 7 months, but I reached my goal of 157# in January. I did a slow cut from Jan until now, down to 152#. I just had a hydrostatic test done and I was very happy with the results. 152#, 8%BF and 139# of lean mass. I just started another bulk. My goal is 165# with no more than 10%BF.

Good luck.

raindawg

The scale is very very inaccurate for body fat. I have a smaller waist, more muscle, but my scale says I've gained body fat %. This is simply not possible. I believe the scales basically use a built in table of height and weight and don't really use the conductance much at all. You should try getting calipers. They are still not very accurate, but much better than the scales.

I'm trying a body recomposition plan right now. I've only been doing it for about two weeks, so I can't say if it's working or not. What I do is eat a surplus on workout days (MWF for me) and a deficit on rest days. The idea is that you build muscle on workout days, and lose fat on rest days. I plan to keep with it for at least two months and then evaluate how it's working.

Thanks for your feedback. So how much do you eat surplus on workout days and how much do you deficit on rest days?

raindawg

Don't be afraid to do good old fashion bulk/cut cycles. You just have to be patient. Yes, it will suck to feel swollen during the bulk, but set realistic goals and be VERY careful what you eat while bulking.

Here's my story. I'm 49yrs and 5'6". My journey started at 180#. I kept dieting until I was down to 137# and 5%BF. In July, I started my first bulk. I ate "clean" and counted every calorie, with a goal to add no more than 1/2# a week, for a total of 20#. Well, it took 7 months, but I reached my goal of 157# in January. I did a slow cut from Jan until now, down to 152#. I just had a hydrostatic test done and I was very happy with the results. 152#, 8%BF and 139# of lean mass. I just started another bulk. My goal is 165# with no more than 10%BF.

Good luck.

Nice job! So would you recommend cutting another 5 to 10lbs before trying my first bulk cycle? Or go through a cycle now? My ultimate goal is current weight but lower bf%.

caesar164

Cardio should be done after weightlifting... And more emphasis should be put on weight training; if you really want to re-comp.?

Recomp is my new goal, just trying to figure out how to go about it. Curious why cardio after weightflifting and not before?

Your muscles use glucose as its primary source of energy; you want to use this energy to trigger muscle growth. Once your glucose levels are depleted from your muscles after an intense resistance workout( not 20 minutes), your body will turn to fat as its primary energy source... This will hopefully happen once you commence your cardio work. Which is when you want to burn fat. Doing cardio before weights burns glucose, not fat, and it robs you of strength and intensity during your weight session. For the purpose of more efficient fat burning, cardio after weight training...
For re-comp, the weights are way more important then cardio...

raindawg

Cardio should be done after weightlifting... And more emphasis should be put on weight training; if you really want to re-comp.?

Recomp is my new goal, just trying to figure out how to go about it. Curious why cardio after weightflifting and not before?

Your muscles use glucose as its primary source of energy; you want to use this energy to trigger muscle growth. Once your glucose levels are depleted from your muscles after an intense resistance workout( not 20 minutes), your body will turn to fat as its primary energy source... This will hopefully happen once you commence your cardio work. Which is when you want to burn fat. Doing cardio before weights burns glucose, not fat, and it robs you of strength and intensity during your weight session. For the purpose of more efficient fat burning, cardio after weight training...
For re-comp, the weights are way more important then cardio...

Thanks, I appreciate the info. That makes a lot of sense. So I'll be constrained to 60 minutes, four days a week for exercise. What would you recommend for a good weight to cardio split, 40/20 or 45/15?

caesar164

Cardio should be done after weightlifting... And more emphasis should be put on weight training; if you really want to re-comp.?

Recomp is my new goal, just trying to figure out how to go about it. Curious why cardio after weightflifting and not before?

Your muscles use glucose as its primary source of energy; you want to use this energy to trigger muscle growth. Once your glucose levels are depleted from your muscles after an intense resistance workout( not 20 minutes), your body will turn to fat as its primary energy source... This will hopefully happen once you commence your cardio work. Which is when you want to burn fat. Doing cardio before weights burns glucose, not fat, and it robs you of strength and intensity during your weight session. For the purpose of more efficient fat burning, cardio after weight training...
For re-comp, the weights are way more important then cardio...

Thanks, I appreciate the info. That makes a lot of sense. So I'll be constrained to 60 minutes, four days a week for exercise. What would you recommend for a good weight to cardio split, 40/20 or 45/15?

Any of those will be fine... Focus on free weights... Concentrate on the squat, deadlifts, bench press, military press or shoulder dumbbell press, pull ups, dips, and barbell curls...good ol' compound movements... Don't be afraid if your weight goes up, that could be new muscle!!

caesar164

Since your cardio sessions will be shorter, make those more intense also... If you could, cardio in the morning, in a fasted state, would be best for fat burning...separate from your weight training session!

Chris_Pierce

If you want, and since your limited to 60 minutes a session, you can try a full body workout two or three times a week and cardio once. Or try hiit. With hiit though you don't want to use heavy weights, it's dangerous lifting heavy against the clock.



Or


Since your planning on putting on muscle, you can just lift heavy 4 days a week and skip the cardio. I know my heart rate is jacked when I'm lifting heavy, but maybe that's just me. I only use cardio so I can eat more while still losing weight
When it's time for me to bulk I'm not planning on any cardio.

raindawg

If you want, and since your limited to 60 minutes a session, you can try a full body workout two or three times a week and cardio once. Or try hiit. With hiit though you don't want to use heavy weights, it's dangerous lifting heavy against the clock.



Or


Since your planning on putting on muscle, you can just lift heavy 4 days a week and skip the cardio. I know my heart rate is jacked when I'm lifting heavy, but maybe that's just me. I only use cardio so I can eat more while still losing weight
When it's time for me to bulk I'm not planning on any cardio.

Thanks for the advice. Do I need to eat at surplus or will my body recomp at maintenance level by just switching to higher intensity weight lifting focus?

jackielou867

This thread seems to be reaffirming a few things I have been reading. In for more comments.

caesar164

I would stay right around maintenance in calories, but consume a good amount of protein, 1 gram per pound of lean body mass...if anything, I would go with a surplus of protein if possible... The manipulation would have to be with the carbohydrates... To keep the body in fat burning mode, it would be beneficial to cycle your carbs; for example, 2 low carb days, followed by 3 moderate carb days, then a low carb day, followed by a very high carb day...

MrGonzo05

After 6 weeks of hard training, any new strength gains are due to hypertrophy. Try it and see if you are still making gains. If so, you may have some success doing a recomp.

jwdieter

I'd recommend doing a standard cut and bulk. Overcome the irrational fear of random numbers.

If you'd be 145 at 10-12% body fat with your bones and musculature right now, that's just how it is.

sijomial

I'm a recomper if you want personal experience.
Stats: age 54, height 5'9, weight 164lbs, about 17% BF.

I recomp as I'm happy at my current weight and prioritise gym and cycling performance.

The basics are very simple and only real difference between recomp and cult/bulk cycles is you are eating at maintenance calories. So adequate protein intake, a good weights routine pushing your muscles to overload - plus patience.

Your exercise routine doesn't sound anywhere near optimal I'm afraid if you want to build muscle. I'm not a fan of mixing weights and cardio in the same session (one compromises the other). If you are a beginner (sorry don't know your history...) then an established beginner routine would be better.

The downside of recomping is that it's slow - so it depends on your priorities.
My numbers for 6 months last year were slightly skewed as I decided to drop weight as well to improve my cycling:
Weight down 4lbs, fat down 8lbs, lean mass up 4lbs.

But results will vary enormously depending on your personal stats - age, training years, beginner or returning to training, body fat percentage etc.

What some people do is recomp until gains stall out and then start cut/bulk cycles.

Shock_Wave

I know this is kind of off topic but Geez Op insane your 47yo. You look younger than most of the guys that posted in here.
Recomping is tedious but I have done it a bunch of times. To really recomp you need a small surplus including exercise cals of course n keep your protein high try for 35% protein macro. Also up your strength training man to at least 30-45 min. No point in a recomp if you can't break down and rebuild muscle tissue with little to no strength training. So up the strength training time and keep the cardio the same at 30 min. Get in at least 1 hour of work out time.

This was 2 years ago or so but I had a recomping thread log..
Here is my example. This year instead of traditionally bulking to 230+ lbs and cutting I did a re composition diet that will end this Saturday. So far I have gained 2+lbs of muscle and lost several % of fat. I will know exactly how much this Saturday. smile

13 wk recomp. cycle
wk1 11/26/12 = 214lbs
wk2 12/03/12 = 216lbs
wk3 12/10/12 = 219lbs
wk4 12/17/12 = 220lbs
wk5 12/24/12 = 222lbs
wk6 12/31/12 = 224lbs
wk7 01/07/13 = 222lbs
wk8 01/28/13 = 219lbs
wk 9 02/04/13 = 218lbs
wk 10 02/11/13 = 220lbs
wk 11 02/18/13 = 219lbs
wk 12 02/26/13 = 217lbs

Notice how it peaks out...Then it drops back down. That's the course the re composition took me.

jimlambrt2

Keep it simple:

Here's the basic plan I follow
========================
Overall: I want to be around 10% BF, with an upward limit of 12% and a lower limit of 8%. That gives me a pretty good window to work with when bulking or cutting. Plus, I never really feel too skinny or too fat.

Diet: don't eat like an a**hole. lots of protein. limit carbs. no added sugar. no alcohol

Workout: lift heavy things: squats, dead lifts, Oly lifts. HIT cardio (crossfit) in moderation

Intake:
When cutting: aimed to lose 1/2lbs per week
When bulking: aimed to gain 1/2bls per week

When to cut: BF > 12%
When to bulk: BF < 8%

That's it. Nothin ground breaking.