Weight Loss and Muscle

martinel2099

Hello everyone,

Like most men I want to lose weight but at the same time also gain muscle, but after reading posts from members of the community and doing a little of my own research I've learned that it is just not possible. To gain muscle you need to eat at a surplus. From the articles I've read it's much more efficient to focus on weight loss and eat less then have a muscle gaining phase where eat a little more.

That being said, is there still benefits to be incorporating weight lifting into my workout routine in addition to cardio? Will it help me maintain or mitigate muscle loss while I'm trying to lose weight?

When i go to the gym now I typically do an hour of cardio on the elliptical at 70-80% of my max heart rate, then after 20-30 minutes of weight training. I alternate upper body and lower body exercises each day. I'm doing this 3x per week now and working to do at least 4-5 days.

Let me know what you guys think, any advice is appreciated.

logg1e

I'm thinking the same thing. My best thought so far is to focus on losing weight, but do weights and not worry about increasing the load. I'm hoping that this helps to mitigate against muscle loss and help me get in to good habits and form. Then, when I'm at goal I'll increase my calories, increase my protein and increase the weights I am lifting.

Interested to hear what more informed people think of that.

vismal

You should absolutely lift weights. Even in a deficit, if muscle building is going to be one of your goals, weight lifting should take priority over cardio. While you will not really be making mass gains in a deficit you can certainly gain strength and work on form. This will leave you in a great place when you finish cutting weight and decide to build muscle. I would lift 3x a week total body. Try a 5x5 program. The "ice cream fitness 5x5" is my favorite. I would also do my weight lifting before cardio or on a separate day. Trying to do heavy squats after already doing an hour of cardio is not a great idea.

martinel2099

Great advice thank you, I'll do that.

ceudoluar

totally agree with vismal

dmenchac

You should absolutely lift weights. Even in a deficit, if muscle building is going to be one of your goals, weight lifting should take priority over cardio. While you will not really be making mass gains in a deficit you can certainly gain strength and work on form. This will leave you in a great place when you finish cutting weight and decide to build muscle. I would lift 3x a week total body. Try a 5x5 program. The "ice cream fitness 5x5" is my favorite. I would also do my weight lifting before cardio or on a separate day. Trying to do heavy squats after already doing an hour of cardio is not a great idea.

I love Ice Cream Fitness

Yagisama

Bump for ice cream love!

SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish

Hello everyone,

Like most men I want to lose weight but at the same time also gain muscle, but after reading posts from members of the community and doing a little of my own research I've learned that it is just not possible. To gain muscle you need to eat at a surplus. From the articles I've read it's much more efficient to focus on weight loss and eat less then have a muscle gaining phase where eat a little more.

That being said, is there still benefits to be incorporating weight lifting into my workout routine in addition to cardio? Will it help me maintain or mitigate muscle loss while I'm trying to lose weight?

When i go to the gym now I typically do an hour of cardio on the elliptical at 70-80% of my max heart rate, then after 20-30 minutes of weight training. I alternate upper body and lower body exercises each day. I'm doing this 3x per week now and working to do at least 4-5 days.

Let me know what you guys think, any advice is appreciated.

*fixed

Naw its not impossible to gain *strength* while losing weight, that's a somewhat harmful MFP myth for guys like you wanting to do both and then being lead to believe all you can do is hope to lose. It IS sub-optimal, you will not gain as fast for sure, you may only be able to keep the same strength after a bit, and it may be frustrating, but if you commit to regular weight training and watch your diet and rest, you can do it. Losing at a reasonably low pace is the biggest key for me when I do it, do not go overboard with cardio, weight train most days per week, get adequate rest, and eat 1g/lb+ protein per day, many will slowly gain some strength while you lose. I recently started a -10lbs in 5 weeks challenge with increase in strength, I'm in my fourth week now and all lifts are going up week by week. This is not typical though, I am not a newbie lifter, and I try for over the protein goal daily. I recently showed a bit of fatigue lifting and my weight loss slowed, since my rest component wasn't up to par and I was hiking too much, so I have toned that down. Since strength is more important to me, if I see a decrease in it, I will decrease my loss speed and may not achieve the full -10lbs, but I'm about 60% there starting my 4th week...so pretty close to on perfect track.

However, when your bodyfat gets lower, starting into the "normal" range, this becomes progressively more and more difficult. I am in the overweight range, but I will never be out of it due to my muscle mass (long time regular lifter). Diminishing returns definitely applies and not all will be able to put on muscle while losing weight. However your chances when you are in overweight and above are pretty good for slow gain from what I have seen, despite all the naysayers. Lifts are also different in response depending on the person and the lift. I have done this several times however, friends as well, and I am no newbie.

albertabeefy

Naw its not impossible to gain muscle while losing weight, that's a somewhat harmful MFP myth for guys like you wanting to do both and then being lead to believe all you can do is hope to lose. It IS sub-optimal, you will not gain as fast for sure, you may only be able to keep the same strength after a bit, and it may be frustrating, but if you commit to regular weight training and watch your diet and rest, you can do it.

This simply is NOT true.

Though there is SOME (very limited) evidence of completely untrained lifters developing some hypertrophy during initial training, it's extremely rare, not significant amounts and mostly anecdotal evidence.

Hypertrophy simply does NOT happen without a caloric surplus and happens best with proper nutrition (based on the individuals medical history, metabolism and their goals.)

You can certainly gain in strength while in a deficit - but not build muscle.

SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish

Well I did mis-write in that I meant strength not muscle. I have no proof it is muscle, so I cannot say I know that, you are right in that. The converse is also not known as you make it out to be. However, I do know that in myself and a friend at least, it is repeatable to gain strength on a deficit while exercising hard. Not all can do it, probably partially due to genetics, and there is a wall that both new and professional lifters come up against where it is extremely unlikely, especially as you approach your genetic potential. One may argue that maybe it is all firing efficiency and neurology that is retraining faster than typical, and that its not a true muscular gain, but that you can gain strength while doing this is simply not true.

The harm in this myth of no strength gain possible while in a deficit is it discourages people to try, and many to lift at all thinking they need to get down to a certain body weight first and all their training will be for naught. If you do not try, you will not only not gain muscle, but lose muscle. You cannot expect anything, and if you do increase lifts its great and it cant be done continually, or at low body fat from what I've seen. If you are only retraining the neurology, so what? You are increasing strength still, and if you can increase efficiency of firing and reduce muscle loss, that is great.

Visimal did a great job losing weight, I congratulate him. Stronglifts are good for overall conditioning, and good for newbies, but they are not optimal for attempting this for certain for me. A split type of exercise pattern with no more than 2x per week per split is what I use. If you exercise without enough rest between, as in all muscle groups 3x per week, I find personally I will tear down faster than you build. I'm sure that will cause all kinds of outrage here too now

albertabeefy

Well I did mis-write in that I meant strength not muscle. I have no proof it is muscle, so I cannot say I know that, you are right in that. The converse is also not known as you make it out to be. However, I do know that in myself and a friend at least, it is repeatable to gain strength on a deficit while exercising hard. Not all can do it, probably partially due to genetics, and there is a wall that both new and professional lifters come up against where it is extremely unlikely, especially as you approach your genetic potential. One may argue that maybe it is all firing efficiency and neurology that is retraining faster than typical, and that its not a true muscular gain, but that you can gain strength while doing this is simply not true.

The harm in this myth of no strength gain possible while in a deficit is it discourages people to try, and many to lift at all thinking they need to get down to a certain body weight first and all their training will be for naught. If you do not try, you will not only not gain muscle, but lose muscle. You cannot expect anything, and if you do increase lifts its great and it cant be done continually, or at low body fat from what I've seen. If you are only retraining the neurology, so what? You are increasing strength still, and if you can increase efficiency of firing and reduce muscle loss, that is great.

Visimal did a great job losing weight, I congratulate him. Stronglifts are good for overall conditioning, and good for newbies, but they are not optimal for attempting this for certain for me. A split type of exercise pattern with no more than 2x per week per split is what I use. If you exercise without enough rest between, as in all muscle groups 3x per week, I find personally I will tear down faster than you build. I'm sure that will cause all kinds of outrage here too now

I've never heard of this "myth" that you cannot gain strength while in a deficit. Ever. Anywhere. Certainly not from anyone knowledgeable on MFP.

Heck,the majority of the posts for beginners to strength-training tell them they can not only help retain lean mass, but build strength while losing body fat.

Out of curiosity, where do you see this myth being spread?

Aaron_K123

Hello everyone,

Like most men I want to lose weight but at the same time also gain muscle, but after reading posts from members of the community and doing a little of my own research I've learned that it is just not possible. To gain muscle you need to eat at a surplus. From the articles I've read it's much more efficient to focus on weight loss and eat less then have a muscle gaining phase where eat a little more.

That being said, is there still benefits to be incorporating weight lifting into my workout routine in addition to cardio? Will it help me maintain or mitigate muscle loss while I'm trying to lose weight?

When i go to the gym now I typically do an hour of cardio on the elliptical at 70-80% of my max heart rate, then after 20-30 minutes of weight training. I alternate upper body and lower body exercises each day. I'm doing this 3x per week now and working to do at least 4-5 days.

Let me know what you guys think, any advice is appreciated.

Sounds like you are well informed. Yes you cannot really effectively put on muscle mass while at caloric deficit but you CAN increase your strength. Incorporating weight lifting will allow you to maintain your muscle mass (with sufficient protein intake) while at the same time making strength gains AND getting your body in better shape to handle the same lifting routinues if you ever do decide to start muscle building.

Highly recommended that you incorporate lifting into your exercise while attempting weight loss.

SezxyStef

Well I did mis-write in that I meant strength not muscle. I have no proof it is muscle, so I cannot say I know that, you are right in that. The converse is also not known as you make it out to be. However, I do know that in myself and a friend at least, it is repeatable to gain strength on a deficit while exercising hard. Not all can do it, probably partially due to genetics, and there is a wall that both new and professional lifters come up against where it is extremely unlikely, especially as you approach your genetic potential. One may argue that maybe it is all firing efficiency and neurology that is retraining faster than typical, and that its not a true muscular gain, but that you can gain strength while doing this is simply not true.

The harm in this myth of no strength gain possible while in a deficit is it discourages people to try, and many to lift at all thinking they need to get down to a certain body weight first and all their training will be for naught. If you do not try, you will not only not gain muscle, but lose muscle. You cannot expect anything, and if you do increase lifts its great and it cant be done continually, or at low body fat from what I've seen. If you are only retraining the neurology, so what? You are increasing strength still, and if you can increase efficiency of firing and reduce muscle loss, that is great.

Visimal did a great job losing weight, I congratulate him. Stronglifts are good for overall conditioning, and good for newbies, but they are not optimal for attempting this for certain for me. A split type of exercise pattern with no more than 2x per week per split is what I use. If you exercise without enough rest between, as in all muscle groups 3x per week, I find personally I will tear down faster than you build. I'm sure that will cause all kinds of outrage here too now

I've never heard of this "myth" that you cannot gain strength while in a deficit. Ever. Anywhere. Certainly not from anyone knowledgeable on MFP.

Heck,the majority of the posts for beginners to strength-training tell them they can not only help retain lean mass, but build strength while losing body fat.

Out of curiosity, where do you see this myth being spread?

I haven't heard that myth here either...ever...

As for the type of workout (full body vs split) and the workouts per week is totally personally.

SL is not just for beginnners....and there is adequate rest between workouts otherwise a lot of us would be in rough shape that's for sure....

RHachicho

I agree with Vismal. In my experience I gained a small amount of muscle mass at the start of my lifting regimen. To the extend that I now HAVE some muscle mass. But after a while it stopped. And my strength gains have been steady but rather slow. But while you can't really hope to make any significant gains during your diet you absolutely can build strength which will set you up for large scale gains once you start bulking Not only that but a good lifting regimen will improve your muscles energy uptake your metabolic efficiency and preserve your muscles against atrophy from weight loss.

SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish

Well I did mis-write in that I meant strength not muscle. I have no proof it is muscle, so I cannot say I know that, you are right in that. The converse is also not known as you make it out to be. However, I do know that in myself and a friend at least, it is repeatable to gain strength on a deficit while exercising hard. Not all can do it, probably partially due to genetics, and there is a wall that both new and professional lifters come up against where it is extremely unlikely, especially as you approach your genetic potential. One may argue that maybe it is all firing efficiency and neurology that is retraining faster than typical, and that its not a true muscular gain, but that you can gain strength while doing this is simply not true.

The harm in this myth of no strength gain possible while in a deficit is it discourages people to try, and many to lift at all thinking they need to get down to a certain body weight first and all their training will be for naught. If you do not try, you will not only not gain muscle, but lose muscle. You cannot expect anything, and if you do increase lifts its great and it cant be done continually, or at low body fat from what I've seen. If you are only retraining the neurology, so what? You are increasing strength still, and if you can increase efficiency of firing and reduce muscle loss, that is great.

Visimal did a great job losing weight, I congratulate him. Stronglifts are good for overall conditioning, and good for newbies, but they are not optimal for attempting this for certain for me. A split type of exercise pattern with no more than 2x per week per split is what I use. If you exercise without enough rest between, as in all muscle groups 3x per week, I find personally I will tear down faster than you build. I'm sure that will cause all kinds of outrage here too now

I've never heard of this "myth" that you cannot gain strength while in a deficit. Ever. Anywhere. Certainly not from anyone knowledgeable on MFP.

Heck,the majority of the posts for beginners to strength-training tell them they can not only help retain lean mass, but build strength while losing body fat.

Out of curiosity, where do you see this myth being spread?

Well I'm not exactly sure really, mostly I've had people ask me that they read about it here on MFP and it annoyed me so I wanted to emphasize its a load of baloney. That idea gives people the impression they cant make much of any gains until they quit losing, so "I may as well just lose weight first, then work on strength". Bad idea both from a muscle loss perspective and training perspective. Emphasizing the fact you can gain some strength makes it more likely someone will do it, whether its muscle or not doesn't really matter to most people anyways, they just care they have some strength gains. And really, its also not even a given you can't gain a bit of muscle too, when you have high body fat, especially when you are new to lifting, while under a deficit, you even noted you were aware of such a study above, so I'm not going to find them again. There are also no well done studies really showing you cannot that I am aware of either, mostly anecdotes just like the pro statement, and it really matters not to the new lifter anyways, so what's the point of making the claim you can't gain muscle even and discourage people? You can, not much probably, but since nobody can really tell for certain, what they need to focus on, see and hear is the strength going up.

Aaron_K123

Well I did mis-write in that I meant strength not muscle. I have no proof it is muscle, so I cannot say I know that, you are right in that. The converse is also not known as you make it out to be. However, I do know that in myself and a friend at least, it is repeatable to gain strength on a deficit while exercising hard. Not all can do it, probably partially due to genetics, and there is a wall that both new and professional lifters come up against where it is extremely unlikely, especially as you approach your genetic potential. One may argue that maybe it is all firing efficiency and neurology that is retraining faster than typical, and that its not a true muscular gain, but that you can gain strength while doing this is simply not true.

The harm in this myth of no strength gain possible while in a deficit is it discourages people to try, and many to lift at all thinking they need to get down to a certain body weight first and all their training will be for naught. If you do not try, you will not only not gain muscle, but lose muscle. You cannot expect anything, and if you do increase lifts its great and it cant be done continually, or at low body fat from what I've seen. If you are only retraining the neurology, so what? You are increasing strength still, and if you can increase efficiency of firing and reduce muscle loss, that is great.

Visimal did a great job losing weight, I congratulate him. Stronglifts are good for overall conditioning, and good for newbies, but they are not optimal for attempting this for certain for me. A split type of exercise pattern with no more than 2x per week per split is what I use. If you exercise without enough rest between, as in all muscle groups 3x per week, I find personally I will tear down faster than you build. I'm sure that will cause all kinds of outrage here too now

I've never heard of this "myth" that you cannot gain strength while in a deficit. Ever. Anywhere. Certainly not from anyone knowledgeable on MFP.

Heck,the majority of the posts for beginners to strength-training tell them they can not only help retain lean mass, but build strength while losing body fat.

Out of curiosity, where do you see this myth being spread?

Well I'm not exactly sure really, mostly I've had people ask me that they read about it here on MFP and it annoyed me so I wanted to emphasize its a load of baloney. That idea gives people the impression they cant make much of any gains until they quit losing, so "I may as well just lose weight first, then work on strength". Bad idea both from a muscle loss perspective and training perspective. Emphasizing the fact you can gain some strength makes it more likely someone will do it, whether its muscle or not doesn't really matter to most people anyways, they just care they have some strength gains. And really, its also not even a given you can't gain a bit of muscle too, when you have high body fat, especially when you are new to lifting, while under a deficit, you even noted you were aware of such a study above, so I'm not going to find them again. There are also no well done studies really showing you cannot that I am aware of either, mostly anecdotes just like the pro statement, and it really matters not to the new lifter anyways, so what's the point of making the claim you can't gain muscle even and discourage people? You can, not much probably, but since nobody can really tell for certain, what they need to focus on, see and hear is the strength going up.

I think people wrongly equate strength to muscle mass and therefore when they here people on MFP correctly stating that they cannot build muscle mass while at a caloric deficit they incorrectly assume that means they cannot build strength. But that misunderstanding is no ones fault but their own. I have never seen anyone on here state that you cannot gain strength from weight training while at caloric deficit.