Your food is no cleaner than mine

chiquitarose22

^forgot to write anything sorry... was going to say i actually had one of those shaker things lol so bad it never made it out of its box bahahaha

MelodyandBarbells

Was reading through the first page... I have to laugh at the idea that "processed food" is bad... Um, I'm pretty sure any cut up and/or cooked food has been processed...

Oh it's semantics? Then find a better phrase that "processed".

No way

I happen to think its a perfect example. You want to call cooking processed? Do it. Use the word clean? Fantastic. I don't even see the lack of a definition to be a problem. Heck that should mean anything you want to be "clean" can be! I gotta to give it to the clean eaters on this one. This thread reads like:

"Whaaaa!! I don't like the way they describe what they literally put in their mouths! It's makes me FEEL bad! Make them stop!! :sad: "

Are you kidding?

lemurcat12

The secondary issue is defining clean eating. Which I'm not even going to attempt. It's been gone over a billion times. Just use the search function.

I have. I've seen plenty of people asking the questions I have, and no answers. That's why I bothered.

And again, while I've made it clear I find the term clean eating offputting, I've also made it clear I'm not criticizing how anyone eats. I'm just interested in the topic. I think it's odd that questions are met with claims that I'm criticizing your eating. Can't we divorce the topic from people's personal preferences, which will of course be individual?

But this thread is silly long, so if you are bored with the topic I won't get offended or anything.

WendyTerry420

I'm just going to start calling Banquet meals "clean" because I said so.

WendyTerry420

QFT

FlaxMilk

I'm just going to start calling Banquet meals "clean" because I said so.

So people *can* piece together what people mean by clean, your implication being that Banquet meals wouldn't be considered so.

Sheesh. I seriously want to see people debate this hotly what is meant by a clean house or a clean body. What's the standard for when someone goes from clean to dirty? Is it armpit odor? Greasy hair? WHAT????

(Yes, it's true. I can't leave well enough alone.)

WendyTerry420

I'm just going to start calling Banquet meals "clean" because I said so.

So people *can* piece together what people mean by clean, your implication being that Banquet meals wouldn't be considered so.

Sheesh. I seriously want to see people debate this hotly what is meant by a clean house or a clean body. What's the standard for when someone goes from clean to dirty? Is it armpit odor? Greasy hair? WHAT????

(Yes, it's true. I can't leave well enough alone.)

I am calling them clean because I said so. Search the forums if you disagree with me. :smokin:

FlaxMilk

I am calling them clean because I said so. Search the forums if you disagree with me. :smokin:

Why would I?

lemurcat12

Sheesh. I seriously want to see people debate this hotly what is meant by a clean house or a clean body. What's the standard for when someone goes from clean to dirty? Is it armpit odor? Greasy hair? WHAT????

(Yes, it's true. I can't leave well enough alone.)

I almost edited my post above to clarify, so you and me both. It's a sad state, but perhaps something we can come together over. Anyone who is bored is reading at his or her own risk.

One additional thought I had is that "clean" and "unclean" mean, in essence, good and bad. No one questions that calling a person not clean would typically be an insult, and same with a house. In fact, many women are brought up to have just as much guilt over not having a clean house as about food stuff. I naturally live in clutter and don't notice it--I'm like the stereotypical guy that way (not saying it's actually a sex difference), and yet I feel like it's a personal judgment on me if someone sees my non neat house, so I must clean before guests or even just letting anyone see inside in a way that most men I've discussed it with don't feel. And I'm neurotic enough that I want to stress that I'm not neat, but of course the house is scrubbed--clutter, not dirt. So it's not really like people are only weird about food.

But moving on, I think the claim that something is unclean means that it's bad to eat, always, in any quantity. The desirable thing would be not to, even if one accepts that no one is perfect. So my question (again) is why is processing--which is in essence about convenience, about making available foods that wouldn't be normally--the key issue? Yeah, I love the idea of gardening and prefer the taste of foods I grow myself, when possible, even if that's just psychological. But I also love having fish from the ocean when I live far from the ocean, and coffee and bananas and avocados and packaged stuff like yogurt I wouldn't bother making myself. It gives my diet more variety and helps in meeting my nutrition goals. Why should this be considered unhealthy or bad (i.e., unclean). And assuming we accept my examples, where to draw the line? Aren't we back to individually evaluating each food item and determining whether it fits into your particular goals? This is not to say that someone couldn't personally decide that added sugar is bad for her so drop it (I'm never anywhere close to my sugar limit, so I don't see the point) or that she was relying too much on packaged food so it's better for her to cook more and also tastier and cheaper. But why have a hard and fast "these foods are processed, so always bad for all"? If so, don't you need an explanation as to why?

tennisdude2004

I'm just going to start calling Banquet meals "clean" because I said so.

So people *can* piece together what people mean by clean, your implication being that Banquet meals wouldn't be considered so.

Sheesh. I seriously want to see people debate this hotly what is meant by a clean house or a clean body. What's the standard for when someone goes from clean to dirty? Is it armpit odor? Greasy hair? WHAT????

(Yes, it's true. I can't leave well enough alone.)

I am calling them clean because I said so. Search the forums if you disagree with me. :smokin:

Then we will respect your decision to do that!

Confuzzled4ever

The secondary issue is defining clean eating. Which I'm not even going to attempt. It's been gone over a billion times. Just use the search function.

I have. I've seen plenty of people asking the questions I have, and no answers. That's why I bothered.

And again, while I've made it clear I find the term clean eating offputting, I've also made it clear I'm not criticizing how anyone eats. I'm just interested in the topic. I think it's odd that questions are met with claims that I'm criticizing your eating. Can't we divorce the topic from people's personal preferences, which will of course be individual?

But this thread is silly long, so if you are bored with the topic I won't get offended or anything.

It is to simply eat food that has not been chemically altered. It does not mean I can't go to the store and purchase crackers. It means that I wont' go to the store and purchase crackers that I cannot make at home. You purchase items that are whole and raw, like fresh fruits and veggies and lean meats and cook. If you get something that is in a box it has nothing added. Like Quinoa with nothing in it, although boxed would be clean. Yogurt, that is just yogurt would be clean. I'm not going to purchase flour that has been stripped of it's nutrients, bleached and then had the nutrients added back in (enriched flour) I'm not going to purchase things are made of added chemicals. In other words If it's supposed to rot and it doesn't, there is a problem. It's not about losing weight, it's about over all health.

I'd be willing to bet the 5 ingredient thing came from people reading labels and going "what is the purpose of all this added stuff why is it necessary and what does it do to me to eat this much extra". for example, I will purchase canned tomatoes or beans, but a lot of them have added salt and sugar.. Why??? I search the labels until I find one with no added salt or sugar. Just tomatoes, or just beans. Unnecessary and i don't need the extra.

And no.. unless you are a chemist i really doubt you use half the ingredients on the list of premade stuff. (do you use blue 1 or maltodextrin as an added ingredient?? No one i know does)

and I am bored of this thread, and this topic.

FlaxMilk

Sheesh. I seriously want to see people debate this hotly what is meant by a clean house or a clean body. What's the standard for when someone goes from clean to dirty? Is it armpit odor? Greasy hair? WHAT????

(Yes, it's true. I can't leave well enough alone.)

I almost edited my post above to clarify, so you and me both. It's a sad state, but perhaps something we can come together over. Anyone who is bored is reading at his or her own risk.

One additional thought I had is that "clean" and "unclean" mean, in essence, good and bad. No one questions that calling a person not clean would typically be an insult, and same with a house. In fact, many women are brought up to have just as much guilt over not having a clean house as about food stuff. I naturally live in clutter and don't notice it--I'm like the stereotypical guy that way (not saying it's actually a sex difference), and yet I feel like it's a personal judgment on me if someone sees my non neat house, so I must clean before guests or even just letting anyone see inside in a way that most men I've discussed it with don't feel. And I'm neurotic enough that I want to stress that I'm not neat, but of course the house is scrubbed--clutter, not dirt. So it's not really like people are only weird about food.

But moving on, I think the claim that something is unclean means that it's bad to eat, always, in any quantity. The desirable thing would be not to, even if one accepts that no one is perfect. So my question (again) is why is processing--which is in essence about convenience, about making available foods that wouldn't be normally--the key issue? Yeah, I love the idea of gardening and prefer the taste of foods I grow myself, when possible, even if that's just psychological. But I also love having fish from the ocean when I live far from the ocean, and coffee and bananas and avocados and packaged stuff like yogurt I wouldn't bother making myself. It gives my diet more variety and helps in meeting my nutrition goals. Why should this be considered unhealthy or bad (i.e., unclean). And assuming we accept my examples, where to draw the line? Aren't we back to individually evaluating each food item and determining whether it fits into your particular goals? This is not to say that someone couldn't personally decide that added sugar is bad for her so drop it (I'm never anywhere close to my sugar limit, so I don't see the point) or that she was relying too much on packaged food so it's better for her to cook more and also tastier and cheaper. But why have a hard and fast "these foods are processed, so always bad for all"? If so, don't you need an explanation as to why?

I have no disagreement that people who call others' diets unclean are being offensive. But if I say I try to keep my house clean, that's not a reflection on anyone else. If I say "I don't want my house to look dirty like Susie's," I'm being a jerk.

I'm not the right person for the rest of your question, because I don't label my diet as clean, and I don't tell others to eat clean, so I'm not invested in a universal definition. When I try to eat clean, I'm trying to get the most nutrition bang for my buck. If I eat something with little macro or micronutrient value, not being in any danger of malnourishment or needing lots of calories for activities, I wouldn't see that as sticking with my clean guidelines. For me, having a goal of clean just helps me meet my calorie deficit (and maintenance, eventually). Many of the foods I include in my daily diet are processed. I like the idea of cooking my own food and knowing to the best of my knowledge what's in the food I'm eating, but most of the time, I'm not going to make my own almond milk. So I'm not opposed to processing, though I do think there is a middle ground between "NO PROCESSING" and "ALL PROCESSING IS OK." I don't care enough about the science to get into that debate, but I'm open to the idea that none of us knows the effect of every last thing out there.

darkangel45422

Sheesh. I seriously want to see people debate this hotly what is meant by a clean house or a clean body. What's the standard for when someone goes from clean to dirty? Is it armpit odor? Greasy hair? WHAT????

(Yes, it's true. I can't leave well enough alone.)

I almost edited my post above to clarify, so you and me both. It's a sad state, but perhaps something we can come together over. Anyone who is bored is reading at his or her own risk.

One additional thought I had is that "clean" and "unclean" mean, in essence, good and bad. No one questions that calling a person not clean would typically be an insult, and same with a house. In fact, many women are brought up to have just as much guilt over not having a clean house as about food stuff. I naturally live in clutter and don't notice it--I'm like the stereotypical guy that way (not saying it's actually a sex difference), and yet I feel like it's a personal judgment on me if someone sees my non neat house, so I must clean before guests or even just letting anyone see inside in a way that most men I've discussed it with don't feel. And I'm neurotic enough that I want to stress that I'm not neat, but of course the house is scrubbed--clutter, not dirt. So it's not really like people are only weird about food.

But moving on, I think the claim that something is unclean means that it's bad to eat, always, in any quantity. The desirable thing would be not to, even if one accepts that no one is perfect. So my question (again) is why is processing--which is in essence about convenience, about making available foods that wouldn't be normally--the key issue? Yeah, I love the idea of gardening and prefer the taste of foods I grow myself, when possible, even if that's just psychological. But I also love having fish from the ocean when I live far from the ocean, and coffee and bananas and avocados and packaged stuff like yogurt I wouldn't bother making myself. It gives my diet more variety and helps in meeting my nutrition goals. Why should this be considered unhealthy or bad (i.e., unclean). And assuming we accept my examples, where to draw the line? Aren't we back to individually evaluating each food item and determining whether it fits into your particular goals? This is not to say that someone couldn't personally decide that added sugar is bad for her so drop it (I'm never anywhere close to my sugar limit, so I don't see the point) or that she was relying too much on packaged food so it's better for her to cook more and also tastier and cheaper. But why have a hard and fast "these foods are processed, so always bad for all"? If so, don't you need an explanation as to why?

I think where you land into confusion is in stating that clean eating means never ever ever ever eating foods that aren't clean. I don't know anyone that says this is what clean eating is. Most go with definitions like mine, which are more about focusing on healthful foods that are clean, not completely and utterly always excluding anything that isn't considered clean. Most if not all clean eaters WILL eat food that isn't considered clean; we just prefer to spend more of our diet on clean foods because we consider them better for our health.

There's research that a lot of added chemicals in processed foods are bad for us, and litle to no research that any/all of them are ok or good for us. So even for the ones we don't know about (whether they're harmful or not), we prefer to avoid them when we can.

It's not really any different than a person choosing to eat more vegetables and less fast food to lose weight; clean eaters choose to eat less processed foods and instead focus on eating more clean foods. Many, myself included, may be shooting for an ideal world diet of only ever eating clean foods, but that doesn't mean we ever will. Striving for perfection's a good thing; actually living it not so much (because most of us aren't in a place yet where we wouldn't miss procesed foods, or would be able to live the lives we want without some of the more convenient foods).

So no, something not being considered a clean food does not mean that you can't consume it in any quantity. Most of us would probably agree it's not healthy for you, but in small doses in an otherwise healthful diet it probably isn't hurting you. So yes, as some people like to point out, it's a lot like moderation - focusing on foods we consider healthful and only occasionally having ones we don't consider healthful. Really just means a lot of people who dislike clean eating are eating clean themselves.

FlaxMilk

FYI - They're clean because I haven't dropped them on the floor.

I'm pretty sure my fruit and veggies are pretty unclean, because I'm lazy and I count the quick rinse as good enough.

Acg67

The secondary issue is defining clean eating. Which I'm not even going to attempt. It's been gone over a billion times. Just use the search function.

I have. I've seen plenty of people asking the questions I have, and no answers. That's why I bothered.

And again, while I've made it clear I find the term clean eating offputting, I've also made it clear I'm not criticizing how anyone eats. I'm just interested in the topic. I think it's odd that questions are met with claims that I'm criticizing your eating. Can't we divorce the topic from people's personal preferences, which will of course be individual?

But this thread is silly long, so if you are bored with the topic I won't get offended or anything.

It is to simply eat food that has not been chemically altered. It does not mean I can't go to the store and purchase crackers. It means that I wont' go to the store and purchase crackers that I cannot make at home. You purchase items that are whole and raw, like fresh fruits and veggies and lean meats and cook. If you get something that is in a box it has nothing added. Like Quinoa with nothing in it, although boxed would be clean. Yogurt, that is just yogurt would be clean. I'm not going to purchase flour that has been stripped of it's nutrients, bleached and then had the nutrients added back in (enriched flour) I'm not going to purchase things are made of added chemicals. In other words If it's supposed to rot and it doesn't, there is a problem. It's not about losing weight, it's about over all health.

I'd be willing to bet the 5 ingredient thing came from people reading labels and going "what is the purpose of all this added stuff why is it necessary and what does it do to me to eat this much extra". for example, I will purchase canned tomatoes or beans, but a lot of them have added salt and sugar.. Why??? I search the labels until I find one with no added salt or sugar. Just tomatoes, or just beans. Unnecessary and i don't need the extra.

And no.. unless you are a chemist i really doubt you use half the ingredients on the list of premade stuff. (do you use blue 1 or maltodextrin as an added ingredient?? No one i know does)

and I am bored of this thread, and this topic.

So ignorant, crackers are baked, baking chemically alters the product. Yougurt? Chemically altered through lacto fermentation

Maltodextrin? I have a big tub of it that I use

darkangel45422

The secondary issue is defining clean eating. Which I'm not even going to attempt. It's been gone over a billion times. Just use the search function.

I have. I've seen plenty of people asking the questions I have, and no answers. That's why I bothered.

And again, while I've made it clear I find the term clean eating offputting, I've also made it clear I'm not criticizing how anyone eats. I'm just interested in the topic. I think it's odd that questions are met with claims that I'm criticizing your eating. Can't we divorce the topic from people's personal preferences, which will of course be individual?

But this thread is silly long, so if you are bored with the topic I won't get offended or anything.

It is to simply eat food that has not been chemically altered. It does not mean I can't go to the store and purchase crackers. It means that I wont' go to the store and purchase crackers that I cannot make at home. You purchase items that are whole and raw, like fresh fruits and veggies and lean meats and cook. If you get something that is in a box it has nothing added. Like Quinoa with nothing in it, although boxed would be clean. Yogurt, that is just yogurt would be clean. I'm not going to purchase flour that has been stripped of it's nutrients, bleached and then had the nutrients added back in (enriched flour) I'm not going to purchase things are made of added chemicals. In other words If it's supposed to rot and it doesn't, there is a problem. It's not about losing weight, it's about over all health.

I'd be willing to bet the 5 ingredient thing came from people reading labels and going "what is the purpose of all this added stuff why is it necessary and what does it do to me to eat this much extra". for example, I will purchase canned tomatoes or beans, but a lot of them have added salt and sugar.. Why??? I search the labels until I find one with no added salt or sugar. Just tomatoes, or just beans. Unnecessary and i don't need the extra.

And no.. unless you are a chemist i really doubt you use half the ingredients on the list of premade stuff. (do you use blue 1 or maltodextrin as an added ingredient?? No one i know does)

and I am bored of this thread, and this topic.

So ignorant, crackers are baked, baking chemically alters the product. Yougurt? Chemically altered through lacto fermentation

Maltodextrin? I have a big tub of it that I use

There's a big difference between chemical alteration through natural cooking methods and chemical alteration via the introduction of unnatural chemicals made in a laboratory. Yogurt is natural (provided it's just yogurt) because lacto fermentation is a natural process. Baking crackers is also a natural process.

So I suggest instead of enjoying your little game of trying to belittle other people, you go find a way of becoming a better person.

Acg67

The secondary issue is defining clean eating. Which I'm not even going to attempt. It's been gone over a billion times. Just use the search function.

I have. I've seen plenty of people asking the questions I have, and no answers. That's why I bothered.

And again, while I've made it clear I find the term clean eating offputting, I've also made it clear I'm not criticizing how anyone eats. I'm just interested in the topic. I think it's odd that questions are met with claims that I'm criticizing your eating. Can't we divorce the topic from people's personal preferences, which will of course be individual?

But this thread is silly long, so if you are bored with the topic I won't get offended or anything.

It is to simply eat food that has not been chemically altered. It does not mean I can't go to the store and purchase crackers. It means that I wont' go to the store and purchase crackers that I cannot make at home. You purchase items that are whole and raw, like fresh fruits and veggies and lean meats and cook. If you get something that is in a box it has nothing added. Like Quinoa with nothing in it, although boxed would be clean. Yogurt, that is just yogurt would be clean. I'm not going to purchase flour that has been stripped of it's nutrients, bleached and then had the nutrients added back in (enriched flour) I'm not going to purchase things are made of added chemicals. In other words If it's supposed to rot and it doesn't, there is a problem. It's not about losing weight, it's about over all health.

I'd be willing to bet the 5 ingredient thing came from people reading labels and going "what is the purpose of all this added stuff why is it necessary and what does it do to me to eat this much extra". for example, I will purchase canned tomatoes or beans, but a lot of them have added salt and sugar.. Why??? I search the labels until I find one with no added salt or sugar. Just tomatoes, or just beans. Unnecessary and i don't need the extra.

And no.. unless you are a chemist i really doubt you use half the ingredients on the list of premade stuff. (do you use blue 1 or maltodextrin as an added ingredient?? No one i know does)

and I am bored of this thread, and this topic.

So ignorant, crackers are baked, baking chemically alters the product. Yougurt? Chemically altered through lacto fermentation

Maltodextrin? I have a big tub of it that I use

There's a big difference between chemical alteration through natural cooking methods and chemical alteration via the introduction of unnatural chemicals made in a laboratory. Yogurt is natural (provided it's just yogurt) because lacto fermentation is a natural process. Baking crackers is also a natural process.

So I suggest instead of enjoying your little game of trying to belittle other people, you go find a way of becoming a better person.

So you're saying when she said that she doesn't eat chemically altered food, she didn't actually mean that? So where do crackers get naturally baked at oh 300+ degrees F?

So pointing out someone's ignorance is belittling them? Do tell

wesleysmom11

Good article. I specifically like this statement:

"Even more to the point, as Kirby acknowledges, "clean" eating assigns moral value where none exists (since, contrary to popular belief, dieting does not actually make you a better person)."

This. and that it's just effing obnoxious.

lsgordon02143

...


A couple of months ago I stopped in a Whole Foods to pick up this bread that I wanted to try...it was packed with some of the rudest people that I have ever seen...

I want to try that bread made with chunks of rude people. Though admittedly it doesn't sound so "clean".

--LG