Getting this off my chest...

Aaron_K123

I also don't like it when ppl assume that if you are overweight it's b/c you don't know any better.

THe industry however has a vested interest in making it seem as though there is some information you or I as obese ppl are missing out on and that they have the answer.

I don't expect that to change as long as there are ppl trying to make money. the only thing I can change is myself, so I just ignore ppl who spout the latest thing commercials or magazines are saying and stick to the topic at hand. i never bring up my weight in public so anyone who brings it up is completely off topic and totally off base and I shine the light on that fact until it stops.

Well to be fair if you are overweight as an adult it is because you never learned how to eat at a maintenance level. I think those of us who are overweight or struggle to build habits to maintain our weight are better served by that admission than by looking for things external to themselves to blame.

It's extremely arrogant to assume that all fat people are that way because of ignorance or a lack of willpower. That simply isn't the case. In fact honestly till people started ragging on me for being fat in other words till I was bullied for it I had no problem with being fat. I decided that at that time in my life I simply didn't care to be thin. Even now I simply wish to be a healthy weight. I have zero wish to conform to some ideal of how my body should look. Many people are like this and simply don't care about the same things you do. For some this has a sad reason because their lack of self esteem has led them not to value their lives beyond immediate enjoyment. Or because indeed they are ignorant of their body's proper care requirement. But for some this is a conscious decision to follow intellectual, social or even spiritual avenues of accomplishment instead. Or simply a love of food that exceeds even their desire to live as long a life as possible.

Yes being overweight is damaging to your body's health. BUT it is not the be all and end all of everything. No matter how you live your life your body will fail and you will die. And from one perspective there are also many that spend hours and hours at the gym and live lives of deprivation out of some misplaced need to be accepted by society. Or out of escapism and the distraction that the benefits of a healthy body give to the reality of death and decay.

In short please rid yourself of the delusion that you know what's best for everyone. It is arrogant and vile.

I am sorry but in what way exactly is it incorrect to state that people who are overweight (such as myself by the way) dont know how to eat at maintenance in their daily lives. No one wants to be overweight so it is safe to assume it wasnt a conscious intentional choice to become so. The only other option is that by default those who are overweight will tend to eat above maintenance if they are not actively dieting. How is that either arrogant or vile I honestly do not understand your reaction. What I am saying is not an insult.

I am overweight now, have been obese before in my life... cant say that ive had self esteem issues though, they dont always go hand in hand. I want to get in shape for practical reasons of health and being able to have high endurance. I am fully confident in my ability to do so but realise that at somepoint I will need to learn the proper habits to eat at maintenance naturally which, as someone who gets overweight if not actively thinking about it, I have never learned to do. Again not sure why that is an arrogant or vile outlook.

I think there are more factors at play than just not knowing how to eat at maintenance. People can get weight from medical issues, pregnancy, and general life circumstances. By that I mean, things change in your life. You get a promotion at work where you spend more time at a desk than moving around, or your job responsibilities change and you are expected to spend more time dining out with clients. You have to work longer hours, which cuts down on your gym time. You have kids, and all your free time gets cut down significantly. You get a new job where you have to travel and end up eating on the go 90% of the time. Over time, the weight slowly creeps on due to either a change in activity level or food options.

Now, none of the things I listed prevent anyone from watching their calories and working out. Obviously there are people here who face these situations and are still being successful with diet and exercise. My point is that people don't always gain weight because they don't know how to keep from shoveling food down their gaping maws. Sometimes circumstances change in your life, and your priorities shift. Something is always going to have to give with only 24 hours in a day, and for a lot of people, that means exercise and taking care of themselves, which leads to weight gain. If you are already overwhelmed with what is going on in your life or feel like you don't have the resources, making a change is tough. That's one of the reasons I like MFP - there are so many people here to share ideas and resources that a lot people don't even know exist and provide support to make changes.

I completely agree that there are REASONS that one can be thrown off from successfully eating at maintenance to no longer doing so including the ones you listed and the ones listed by a previous poster who mentioned various pharmaceuticals. Thing is though it still comes down to no longer being at maintenance and not adjusting in time to prevent sufficient weight gain that you are no longer happy with your appearance or heatlh (hence why you are here presumably). I just believe strongly that taking personal responsibility for it is a much more productive attitude to have, one more likely to lead to success with getting your weight under control which is presumably the goal here, than an attitude whereby you seek to blame something external to yourself.

Can pharmaceuticals or career change or lifestyle change through your diet and or BMR and or activity levels into chaos enough that you no longer know how to eat at maintenance? Yes, most certainly...but my point is that you no longer knew how to eat at maintenance. I packed on 35 pounds of fat when my career picked up into high gear and I become obsessed with it. I lost sight of my maintenance level and as a result gained pounds. That is my fault and now I am here trying to fix that mistake.

This comes down to two things at the most simple level. 1, if you gain weight you are eating over maintenance and 2, if you are here on this forum you are clearly wanting to lose weight implying you are unhappy with the weight you gained. Thats it really, everything else is detail.

BurntCoffee

My doctor has always been shocked that I don't have high blood sugar, cholesterol, or blood pressure. So I guess by those standards I am "healthy". But once you factor in my emotional health and back that hurts I'm not as "healthy" as I could be. I may not keel over tomorrow of a self induced heart attack but I really don't wanna live this way anymore.

But I do agree with you that technically people can be in generally good "health" even though they are overweight. Just as some thin people can have high cholesterol.

Fuzzipeg

Excuse me, but how many of you have heard of salicylate? Do you know it is toxic? Do you also know it could be contributing to your being unable to loose weight, it might have been the cause of you gaining weight in the first place. Most of all contrary to the usual medical advice it can cause pain, breathing issues, and many many more major and minor health issues. Some people will never know they have salicylate issues because by reducing their food consumption they will automatically reduce their salicylate intake to a level at which their bodies are happy and in balance.

Me, I have done battle with my weight for a life time because I did not know, now I have immunological problems as a consequence.

I advise everyone to take an interest in what is actually in the foods you eat, especially what may be toxic.

Be true to your own health

RHachicho

I also don't like it when ppl assume that if you are overweight it's b/c you don't know any better.

THe industry however has a vested interest in making it seem as though there is some information you or I as obese ppl are missing out on and that they have the answer.

I don't expect that to change as long as there are ppl trying to make money. the only thing I can change is myself, so I just ignore ppl who spout the latest thing commercials or magazines are saying and stick to the topic at hand. i never bring up my weight in public so anyone who brings it up is completely off topic and totally off base and I shine the light on that fact until it stops.

Well to be fair if you are overweight as an adult it is because you never learned how to eat at a maintenance level. I think those of us who are overweight or struggle to build habits to maintain our weight are better served by that admission than by looking for things external to themselves to blame.

It's extremely arrogant to assume that all fat people are that way because of ignorance or a lack of willpower. That simply isn't the case. In fact honestly till people started ragging on me for being fat in other words till I was bullied for it I had no problem with being fat. I decided that at that time in my life I simply didn't care to be thin. Even now I simply wish to be a healthy weight. I have zero wish to conform to some ideal of how my body should look. Many people are like this and simply don't care about the same things you do. For some this has a sad reason because their lack of self esteem has led them not to value their lives beyond immediate enjoyment. Or because indeed they are ignorant of their body's proper care requirement. But for some this is a conscious decision to follow intellectual, social or even spiritual avenues of accomplishment instead. Or simply a love of food that exceeds even their desire to live as long a life as possible.

Yes being overweight is damaging to your body's health. BUT it is not the be all and end all of everything. No matter how you live your life your body will fail and you will die. And from one perspective there are also many that spend hours and hours at the gym and live lives of deprivation out of some misplaced need to be accepted by society. Or out of escapism and the distraction that the benefits of a healthy body give to the reality of death and decay.

In short please rid yourself of the delusion that you know what's best for everyone. It is arrogant and vile.

I am sorry but in what way exactly is it incorrect to state that people who are overweight (such as myself by the way) dont know how to eat at maintenance in their daily lives. No one wants to be overweight so it is safe to assume it wasnt a conscious intentional choice to become so. The only other option is that by default those who are overweight will tend to eat above maintenance if they are not actively dieting. How is that either arrogant or vile I honestly do not understand your reaction. What I am saying is not an insult.

I am overweight now, have been obese before in my life... cant say that ive had self esteem issues though, they dont always go hand in hand. I want to get in shape for practical reasons of health and being able to have high endurance. I am fully confident in my ability to do so but realise that at somepoint I will need to learn the proper habits to eat at maintenance naturally which, as someone who gets overweight if not actively thinking about it, I have never learned to do. Again not sure why that is an arrogant or vile outlook.

Ok I get you now. Your just too naive or ignorant (note : not stupid) to understand. I will spell it out for you. Some people do not care to be thin. They like food or hate exercise and accept the consequences of that decision. We have a limited time on earth. Some people think that restraint in these departments is NOT worth spending countless hours in the gym. And that extra time being old isn't worth it either. I know you might find this difficult to believe. But it's true. Often this opinion changes when people get older. Sometimes it doesn't. The point is that it isn't everyone else business to tell people what to do with their bodies. That choice belongs to them alone. And you need to realize that you don't get how every person works. You really don't. Sometimes if you are a good friend and because of this you understand that your friend i being self destructive rather than just being them then you have a right to say something and interfere. But complete stranger's don't have the right to criticize you for the choices you make.

It is not difficult for me to believe there are people who do not care to be thin. I do find it hard to believe though that those people who have no concern about being overweight would be on an internet forum dedicated to losing weight. To me a person claiming that while spending a lot of time on a weightloss forum is either trolling or in denial. Why do you ou think a person with no concerns about being overweight would seek out a forum like this?

Are you referring to an actual person who is here right now that I could address or are you referring to a hypothetical person who could potentially exist?

Well ... yes. Me for one. I know I know I am losing weight. A lot of weight. But even when I reach my goal I will still be overweight by conventional standards and I don't give a toss. Nor did I give a toss about being obese for years and years. I knew exactly HOW to lose weight I just didn't care about the consequences of not doing so. Now in my case there are other factors at work here. Until recently I suffered heavily from depression originating in quite a large proportion from schoolyard bullies who picked on me because i was fat and because i was foreign. And frankly I was always a smart kid. I realized young that most people who have never been fat look at fat people and don't see real people. They see clowns .. or worse pigs. And this furthered my conviction that humanity was just a bunch of image obsessed cruel monkey men and that caused me to spiral further into depression. It wasn't about not knowing how to lose weight. Being fat was about being me in spite of them every time i enjoyed the hell out of my food it felt like a little victory over those who watched every calorie and treated me like a joke.

Of course I wasn't doing it JUST to spite them. I enjoyed it. But it's the same kind of pride i get carrying around my games workshop miniature war gaming case and some musclebound git high on his own ego starts shouting insults because apparently I'm a nerd. And nerds are, despite the plethora of technological devices he is carrying around with him .. no good. The point is I was proud to be fat. I know that sounds weird but I really was. It was my own little way of rebelling against the way people are. And after I learned to grapple well and could take on most people who actually assaulted me the physical bullying stopped. You would be amazed how quickly people cry uncle when a 24 stone man sits on their spine. And now I'm proud to be losing weight. Because it's my decision. I decided to fix my health because it is what I want to do now. I regret nothing I did in those years. I ate some seriously fuggin tasty food with calorie and nutrition contents that would probably make some of you faint! And I loved it! If it shortened my life then that was time well spent! Some might say that bullying lead to self destructive behavior. But we all have our crosses to bear in life. And despite everything that's happened to me I was always able to be ME. And that's an achievement not many can truly claim.

And there's my case in point.

redheadmommy

Just want to add some sugar in your gas tank, lady. No, not all of us got fat because moderation and maintenance were evil words. Look up some of the side effects of klonopin, depo provera, risperidal, and zoloft. Throw in lithium. Common side effect: weight gain and insulin resistance. Klonopin is great at encouraging you to sleep 12 hrs a day. Welcome to how I packed on 60 lbs. Unfortunately, treating the mental health issues was more important at the time than my weight. Moderation means diddly squat when you spend the day in bed, taking meds that make you a zombie, increase your insulin resistance, but keep you alive.

Completely agree, especially with the bolded part. Although not knowing how to maintaining is a common problem, but that is not the ONLY reason/ cause people obesity. Many people who are obese gained their weight during a short period of time for some reason. Many medication, medical condition has side effect of gaining weight.
I always been active and maintained healthy weight for my entire 20's, so I think i am totally capable of doing it. Losing weight is a big challenge though, but I never had to bother with that before I had kids.I went through a several aggressive hormonal fertility treatment + high risk pregnancy where doctor ordered zero exercise and it lead to extreme weight gain 75 lb per 9 months pregnancy ( twice).

Aaron_K123

Just want to add some sugar in your gas tank, lady. No, not all of us got fat because moderation and maintenance were evil words. Look up some of the side effects of klonopin, depo provera, risperidal, and zoloft. Throw in lithium. Common side effect: weight gain and insulin resistance. Klonopin is great at encouraging you to sleep 12 hrs a day. Welcome to how I packed on 60 lbs. Unfortunately, treating the mental health issues was more important at the time than my weight. Moderation means diddly squat when you spend the day in bed, taking meds that make you a zombie, increase your insulin resistance, but keep you alive.

Completely agree, especially with the bolded part. Although not knowing how to maintaining is a common problem, but that is not the ONLY reason/ cause people obesity. Many people who are obese gained their weight during a short period of time for some reason. Many medication, medical condition has side effect of gaining weight.
I always been active and maintained healthy weight for my entire 20's, so I think i am totally capable of doing it. Losing weight is a big challenge though, but I never had to bother with that before I had kids.I went through a several aggressive hormonal fertility treatment + high risk pregnancy where doctor ordered zero exercise and it lead to extreme weight gain 75 lb per 9 months pregnancy ( twice).

Perhaps we are nitpicking semantics at this point but to me knowing how to maintain means knowing how to maintain even if your maintenance level changes due to changes in activity level or medication. If you gain weight you aren't at maintenance and if you gain a lot of weight without wanting to then you weren't adjusting to correct for your changes in maintenance level. Bottom line this is true for anyone who is overweight and doesn't want to be.

TrolleyRide

Good luck OP

redheadmommy

Just want to add some sugar in your gas tank, lady. No, not all of us got fat because moderation and maintenance were evil words. Look up some of the side effects of klonopin, depo provera, risperidal, and zoloft. Throw in lithium. Common side effect: weight gain and insulin resistance. Klonopin is great at encouraging you to sleep 12 hrs a day. Welcome to how I packed on 60 lbs. Unfortunately, treating the mental health issues was more important at the time than my weight. Moderation means diddly squat when you spend the day in bed, taking meds that make you a zombie, increase your insulin resistance, but keep you alive.

Completely agree, especially with the bolded part. Although not knowing how to maintaining is a common problem, but that is not the ONLY reason/ cause people obesity. Many people who are obese gained their weight during a short period of time for some reason. Many medication, medical condition has side effect of gaining weight.
I always been active and maintained healthy weight for my entire 20's, so I think i am totally capable of doing it. Losing weight is a big challenge though, but I never had to bother with that before I had kids.I went through a several aggressive hormonal fertility treatment + high risk pregnancy where doctor ordered zero exercise and it lead to extreme weight gain 75 lb per 9 months pregnancy ( twice).

Perhaps we are nitpicking semantics at this point but to me knowing how to maintain means knowing how to maintain even if your maintenance level changes due to changes in activity level or medication. If you gain weight you aren't at maintenance and if you gain a lot of weight without wanting to then you weren't adjusting to correct for your changes in maintenance level. Bottom line this is true for anyone who is overweight and doesn't want to be.

Yes you are. Maintaining is knowing how much a person can eat in order not to gain weight at different activity level. This amount is vastly different from person to person. Under normal circumstances , when a maintaining individual activity level / eating level change the gain / loss is slow. For example , you busy and don't play volleyball this season. In a while you start to notice your pants are getting snug, and put on 5 lb during the past couple of months, then you adjust a bit and you are fine..

However when out of nowhere you put on 25 lb in 2 months , you can not adjust on time. Not to mention when it is due to medication and whatnot, your normal balance gets thrown away. You start to adjust in the normal way you used to by cutting 10% off, which always worked . 1 months later you are gained another 10 lb. then you adjust a bit more cut another 10%, and you "only" gained 5 lb in that month. Than you adjust another 10 % , and you are still not reached maintenance . You need to cut even further , but in the process you gained 40 lb in mere 4 months, and all the sudden you shifted from normal weight range right into obesity.
Or when it is due to medication, after 1-2 months you run to your doctor and ask for alternative medication, and you think you solved the problem. Instead of solving the problem you notice you gained twice much in the next month. I emphasises that all this happening on a food/activity level that worked for you for decades, but for a few months everything goes crazy.

Plus in case where pregnancy /breastfeeding is involved, you can not just adjust which extreme amount all the sudden , because your #1 priority is not yourself.

Aaron_K123

Just want to add some sugar in your gas tank, lady. No, not all of us got fat because moderation and maintenance were evil words. Look up some of the side effects of klonopin, depo provera, risperidal, and zoloft. Throw in lithium. Common side effect: weight gain and insulin resistance. Klonopin is great at encouraging you to sleep 12 hrs a day. Welcome to how I packed on 60 lbs. Unfortunately, treating the mental health issues was more important at the time than my weight. Moderation means diddly squat when you spend the day in bed, taking meds that make you a zombie, increase your insulin resistance, but keep you alive.

Completely agree, especially with the bolded part. Although not knowing how to maintaining is a common problem, but that is not the ONLY reason/ cause people obesity. Many people who are obese gained their weight during a short period of time for some reason. Many medication, medical condition has side effect of gaining weight.
I always been active and maintained healthy weight for my entire 20's, so I think i am totally capable of doing it. Losing weight is a big challenge though, but I never had to bother with that before I had kids.I went through a several aggressive hormonal fertility treatment + high risk pregnancy where doctor ordered zero exercise and it lead to extreme weight gain 75 lb per 9 months pregnancy ( twice).

Perhaps we are nitpicking semantics at this point but to me knowing how to maintain means knowing how to maintain even if your maintenance level changes due to changes in activity level or medication. If you gain weight you aren't at maintenance and if you gain a lot of weight without wanting to then you weren't adjusting to correct for your changes in maintenance level. Bottom line this is true for anyone who is overweight and doesn't want to be.

Yes you are. Maintaining is knowing how much a person can eat in order not to gain weight at different activity level. This amount is vastly different from person to person. Under normal circumstances , when a maintaining individual activity level / eating level change the gain / loss is slow. For example , you busy and don't play volleyball this season. In a while you start to notice your pants are getting snug, and put on 5 lb during the past couple of months, then you adjust a bit and you are fine..

However when out of nowhere you put on 25 lb in 2 months , you can not adjust on time. Not to mention when it is due to medication and whatnot, your normal balance gets thrown away. You start to adjust in the normal way you used to by cutting 10% off, which always worked . 1 months later you are gained another 10 lb. then you adjust a bit more cut another 10%, and you "only" gained 5 lb in that month. Than you adjust another 10 % , and you are still not reached maintenance . You need to cut even further , but in the process you gained 40 lb in mere 4 months, and all the sudden you shifted from normal weight range right into obesity.
Or when it is due to medication, after 1-2 months you run to your doctor and ask for alternative medication, and you think you solved the problem. Instead of solving the problem you notice you gained twice much in the next month. I emphasises that all this happening on a food/activity level that worked for you for decades, but for a few months everything goes crazy.

Plus in case where pregnancy /breastfeeding is involved, you can not just adjust which extreme amount all the sudden , because your #1 priority is not yourself.

So I'm not sure at what point you disagreed with me if at all. We seem to be in agreement. If you gain weight its because you are off from your maintenance. There might be many reasons why that happened but you were still off from your maintenance. No one is responsible for my weight but me, regardless of my circumstances.

redheadmommy

Just want to add some sugar in your gas tank, lady. No, not all of us got fat because moderation and maintenance were evil words. Look up some of the side effects of klonopin, depo provera, risperidal, and zoloft. Throw in lithium. Common side effect: weight gain and insulin resistance. Klonopin is great at encouraging you to sleep 12 hrs a day. Welcome to how I packed on 60 lbs. Unfortunately, treating the mental health issues was more important at the time than my weight. Moderation means diddly squat when you spend the day in bed, taking meds that make you a zombie, increase your insulin resistance, but keep you alive.

Completely agree, especially with the bolded part. Although not knowing how to maintaining is a common problem, but that is not the ONLY reason/ cause people obesity. Many people who are obese gained their weight during a short period of time for some reason. Many medication, medical condition has side effect of gaining weight.
I always been active and maintained healthy weight for my entire 20's, so I think i am totally capable of doing it. Losing weight is a big challenge though, but I never had to bother with that before I had kids.I went through a several aggressive hormonal fertility treatment + high risk pregnancy where doctor ordered zero exercise and it lead to extreme weight gain 75 lb per 9 months pregnancy ( twice).

Perhaps we are nitpicking semantics at this point but to me knowing how to maintain means knowing how to maintain even if your maintenance level changes due to changes in activity level or medication. If you gain weight you aren't at maintenance and if you gain a lot of weight without wanting to then you weren't adjusting to correct for your changes in maintenance level. Bottom line this is true for anyone who is overweight and doesn't want to be.

Yes you are. Maintaining is knowing how much a person can eat in order not to gain weight at different activity level. This amount is vastly different from person to person. Under normal circumstances , when a maintaining individual activity level / eating level change the gain / loss is slow. For example , you busy and don't play volleyball this season. In a while you start to notice your pants are getting snug, and put on 5 lb during the past couple of months, then you adjust a bit and you are fine..

However when out of nowhere you put on 25 lb in 2 months , you can not adjust on time. Not to mention when it is due to medication and whatnot, your normal balance gets thrown away. You start to adjust in the normal way you used to by cutting 10% off, which always worked . 1 months later you are gained another 10 lb. then you adjust a bit more cut another 10%, and you "only" gained 5 lb in that month. Than you adjust another 10 % , and you are still not reached maintenance . You need to cut even further , but in the process you gained 40 lb in mere 4 months, and all the sudden you shifted from normal weight range right into obesity.
Or when it is due to medication, after 1-2 months you run to your doctor and ask for alternative medication, and you think you solved the problem. Instead of solving the problem you notice you gained twice much in the next month. I emphasises that all this happening on a food/activity level that worked for you for decades, but for a few months everything goes crazy.

Plus in case where pregnancy /breastfeeding is involved, you can not just adjust which extreme amount all the sudden , because your #1 priority is not yourself.

So I'm not sure at what point you disagreed with me if at all. We seem to be in agreement. If you gain weight its because you are off from your maintenance. There might be many reasons why that happened but you were still off from your maintenance. No one is responsible for my weight but me, regardless of my circumstances.

No we are not in an agreement. Both the cause and the long time solution is very different based on how and why the weight gain occurred. When the weight is slowly creeping on year after year after year, ignoring is a personal choice. When your weight gain occur SUDDEN as a result of medication and within a few months you are actively seeking action that is NOT a maintenance problem and the long term solution is also different.

Yes both case the short-term task is creating a calorie deficit to get rid of the excess fat that is a no-brainer,

However, if you have a long term on-going maintenance problem, when you gained 5-10-15 lb every year in the past decade, you need to unlearn your eating habits completely. You can not just diet off that excess weight, because if you go back to your previous habit, you will gain the weight back.

When you had healthy balanced habit that had been thrown off by a SUDDEN thing, the solution should be different. First of all , you have fix/undo what caused it such as change medication. After that you only need a temporary calorie deficit .