Mind Muscle Connection!??

SillyTree

So… my question is;
I am understanding the Mind to Muscle Connection here… Lifting weights etc. is important, but being able to control the weight and muscle it seems is also extremely important…
if I do a military press to strengthen my shoulders, great!!!
If I do a squat to strengthen my legs, and core, etc. great!!!
If I do a strength training program that includes those two exercises in order to gain strength and power in those areas… I then peak out at whatever sets and reps I have decided to shoot for depending on my goals… what if I then do for example; a balance on one leg while doing an overhead press!??
It seems, although it would be an advanced move, and I may not want to do it for long… because strength and power gains would be less… but would it allow me to connect my mind to muscle better, allowing me to press overhead from one leg… Which would in turn help with something like;
Kicking landing on one leg, and then throwing a punch while only on one leg…

Standing on one leg doing an overhead press would obviously limit the amount of weight being lifted, but would it allow for a greater Mind to Muscle Connection from the leg to the shoulder!???

Thoughts? Hopefully I worded that clearly…




I mean strength and power gains are important as well as flexibility, cardio, balance, speed, endurance, etc… but so is coordination, and control (mind to muscle connection)!??
From all the research I am reading, I am wondering if it would make sense to do a weight lifting routine for 3 - 4 weeks, and then do maybe a 1 - 2 week routine that focuses, and ensures a Mind to Muscle Connection as well as Control of the weight and movement, before going on to the next 3 - 4 week routine!??

Man… I hope what I am asking your thoughts on is making sense, because I really want to know what you think, especially if you're a trainer!

Cherimoose

To improve your speed and coordination skills for martial arts, practice martial arts.

To improve your shoulder strength, a 2-leg overhead press is better than 1-leg, since you can lift more. Standing on 1 leg won't improve your martial arts skills as much as actually practicing martial arts, since the neuromuscular firing patterns are totally different.

Makes sense?

SillyTree

That's good!
That does make sense!
I didn't know it at the time… but that is the answer I was looking for!

SillyTree

noun
noun: coordination; noun: co-ordination
1.
the organization of the different elements of a complex body or activity so as to enable them to work together effectively.
"both countries agreed to intensify efforts at economic policy coordination"
cooperative effort resulting in an effective relationship.
"action groups work in coordination with local groups to end rain forest destruction"
2.
the ability to use different parts of the body together smoothly and efficiently.
"changing from one foot position to another requires coordination and balance"
3.
CHEMISTRY
the linking of atoms by coordinate bonds.


That is the definition of coordination...

So...
A One Legged Shoulder Press - OLSP for short for now... (which I don't really want to do, but I am still using it as my example for this week)
It has been determined that to increase strength, power, balance, & stability, one would be better off doing exercises that would put the person in the best position to lift the most amount of weight, thus increasing all of those attributes substantially...
But... what about coordination?
Would doing a OLSP help in coordination!???
So... for example again;
If one were trying to get a stronger, quicker, more controlled upward punch from a one legged position...

Should one do the following;
1) lift weights necessary for increased strength, power, balance, & stability, for 2 - 4 weeks.
THEN
2) lift weights necessary for increased coordination, for another 2 - 4 weeks.
THEN
3) practice the actual punch from a one legged stance without any weight!???

OR... should one leave out step 2, because it wouldn't actually increase coordination!??
There is the principal of Specificity... Which would make me think that practicing the specific move at some point, while still having resistance would be beneficial...

Sort of like how hockey players will put a weight on the end of their stick, and stick handle... so when the weight is gone, they are faster at stick handling.
As opposed to only working their forearms in the gym, they actually practice a weighted movement that they use...
See what I am saying/wondering here!??


I am wondering things like this, because I am trying to understand better what should and shouldn't be utilized in sports specific training.
Obviously safety is always first... but I feel like that would come with the ability to control.
Your thoughts/knowledge are greatly appreciated!

No_Finish_Line

i think you already have the best answer.

If you want to improve strength then you would want to be in a postion where you can lift the most.

If you want to train balance then you, you will be better off isolating that.

if you want to build co-ordination kicking/punching etc, your better off kicking/punching etc.

I don't think your idea is without merit though. But i would think it would be best used as a small component complimenting a strength and martial arts routine. which i'm willing to bet was your plan anyways.

just be very honest about how much weight you can handle doing propper form. i would imagine that if your using a weight that messes up your punching form then your not doing yourself any favors.

I don't know anything about martial arts, but i do know that jumping rope is phenomonally good at building coordination. I know a lot of boxers do it. probably worth throwing some of that in.

as far as the specific routine you mentioned, i don't know if that would be the best way to incorperate it.

SillyTree

Ya… The principle of individuality would come into play with how long to do what routine as well…
So, that will change how long to spend on what depending on the individual.
Thanks for responding by the way!

I know that a punch is more of a snap motion, as opposed to a push motion, which like originally stated in the first reply posted, makes for a different neuromuscular firing…
but at the same, I would think that having a thicker, stronger sling shot, would be able to launch and snap a larger amount of energy… But… now that I think about it, that would probably actually cause the sling shot to load and release slower…
Hmmmm… maybe that is why a lot of boxers stay away from the weights…
My brain hurts now.

I think I am on the right track here… but it is confusing to me when sorting through all of the information & research out there, because it seems like everybody claims that they have the "End All, Be All" answer… when in reality, it appears that it is actually a bit of everything… and how much of what, depends on what you're trying to improve on.

No_Finish_Line

Ya… The principle of individuality would come into play with how long to do what routine as well…
So, that will change how long to spend on what depending on the individual.
Thanks for responding by the way!

i guess what i'm saying is that i would never make it replace my weight routine at all. but maybe just supliment my normal weight routine with a few of these moves.

I know that a punch is more of a snap motion, as opposed to a push motion, which like originally stated in the first reply posted, makes for a different neuromuscular firing…
but at the same, I would think that having a thicker, stronger sling shot, would be able to launch and snap a larger amount of energy…

I agree, and to that point i think you would get more traction out of classic weight lifting so that you can maximize your strength. i'm fairly strong for my weight but i have very little explosive power, so there is that to consider as well.

Its an antiquated notion, but i'm pretty sure back in the day they used to tell boxers NOT to lift weights

in reality, it appears that it is actually a bit of everything… and how much of what, depends on what you're trying to improve on.

totally agree with that. thats why i'm saying train strength for strenght, balance for balance, co-ordination for co-ordination.

a exercise that combines all three is going to have its compromises. It probably has a place but i wouldn't make it a major part of my routine.



you might want to consider using a weighted vest for somethings, that way your adding some resistance for your legs and balance, but not potentially interferring with your punching form

Cherimoose

But... what about coordination? Would doing a OLSP help in coordination!???

OLSP is more suitable for general conditioning, especially for sedentary people who don't challenge their coordination & balance enough in their daily life. It's fine if you include it, but to maximize strength within your deltoid muscle fibers (for any activity) work your deltoids hard. OLSP doesn't work deltoids as hard as TLSP. OLSP isn't similar enough to martial arts to have significant carryover benefit for coordination & balance. Again, to improve at martial arts, practice it. Not a weighted version of it. Scroll down to #2 for an explanation:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/558455-3-ways-your-personal-trainer-steers-you-wrong/

If you get lost, just review the Specificity Principle.

As far as changing your routine every few weeks, if you want to retain any of your abilities at peak levels, keep training them, don't cycle them.

JoRocka

Me thinks you are overthinking.

if you want to make something harder for the sake of making it harder- then do so- realizing you will not get the same results.

If you want to train strength- train in a way to maximize your strength gains.
If you want to train agility- balance and coordination- train those things as their own item to be trained and don't try to shoe horn them into strength workouts.

Can you do both? yes- crossfit is an extremely good example at this- where those people are specailized at nothing- and the only thing they are getting good at is cross fit.


They are neither getting good at getting faster- or getting stronger- they are getting good at crossfit.

if you want to be harder stronger faster- than traing being harder stronger faster- not training hardstongerester.

Does that make sense?

No_Finish_Line

They are neither getting good at getting faster- or getting stronger- they are getting good at crossfit.

well they may be getting faster or stronger but it think your point is that they could get significantly more faster or stronger if they focused on one or the other rather then doing crossfit

JoRocka

yes.

exactly.

The could get faster AND stronger if they focused on those separately but parallel.
But instead they try to get faster at getting stronger in the same condensed work out- the result is just getting good at THAT.

PikaKnight

Me thinks you are overthinking.

if you want to make something harder for the sake of making it harder- then do so- realizing you will not get the same results.

If you want to train strength- train in a way to maximize your strength gains.
If you want to train agility- balance and coordination- train those things as their own item to be trained and don't try to shoe horn them into strength workouts.

Can you do both? yes- crossfit is an extremely good example at this- where those people are specailized at nothing- and the only thing they are getting good at is cross fit.


They are neither getting good at getting faster- or getting stronger- they are getting good at crossfit.

if you want to be harder stronger faster- than traing being harder stronger faster- not training hardstongerester.

Does that make sense?

I'm going to agree...especially the bolded.

SillyTree

hardstongster…Hahaha
Yes.! That does make sense.

Thanks for all of the posts…

The research available definitely supports exactly what everybody is saying in these replies… which is good!
At the same time… there is so much information out there, that unless somebody talks it out with me, I will definitely start to over think it all and how it all relates to each other.

At the end of the day, it is relatively basic stuff as usual.

So thanks for responding!