starvation mode

jasonweinberg

personally, i haven't been able to figure this out. both my doctor and my nuitritionist say the idea that you will lose less weight if you eat too few calories or lose more weight if you stay above a certain threshold is a myth. what they do say is your body redirects the calories you do take in to your most important bodily functions so you can experience hair loss. i have been on a low-calorie regimen below the 1200 mfp reccommends for over two months now. i find that my weight loss in general ebbs and flows but always seems to average out. i am not losing weight any faster than i was when i was at a 1500 calorie level, but that could be because i do burn less calories than i did when i was heavier, or that just in general it is harder to lose weight as you get closer to goal. i am not losing any slower, though. sometimes it feels like i do lose a lbs. or two right after a day when for whatever reason i eat a little more, but then sometimes it doesn't and most recently i did eat a little more and actually gained an lbs. back, even though i was still well below maintenance intake level.

its kind of a mystery to me. in the end, as long as i am losing weight i am happy, but if i could actually be consuming more calories and losing at the same, or even a faster rate, it seems kind of silly.

Fatoshie

hey at least you are losing it, slow or fast... mine didnt move a bit yet!!! GRRRRR lol

nbingham

What winds up happening is your metabolism slows. So yes, you're losing weight, but how happy with your eating regimen are you? Is this something you're willing to stick to for the rest of your life? The problem with going below the suggested 1200 calories per day is that once your metabolism slows it's hard to boost it back, and then you have to stay on that incredibly restricted diet forever or you'll gain it all back and then some.
I've got a friend who keeps to 1200-1500 calories a day and has a "cheat day" once a week. He exercises faithfully and has lost 170 lbs. (I'm so proud of him. He's part of my motivation.)
He doesn't feel like he's suffering or missing out on foods that he loves. That's the key to successful and long term weight loss.

jasonweinberg

again, that is what many say as far as your metabolism slowing down, but my dr. and nutritionist both say that is a myth. no, i would most definitely not be happy staying at my current calorie intake forever. reaching goal is a goal in itslef, but also being able to switch to my maintenance program is also a goal. my dr. and nutritionist both insist that the best path to reaching goal is the path they have me on. of course, it is not just me: it is a program they run with many many participants. personally, to me it is a nice idea what you say is true, and i suppose i could do more in depth medical research than posting on a discussion forum, but i just figured i'd toss it out there. i do know both my dr. and nutritionist have an extended background in the field as well as adavnced dergrees and even a doctorate...so i suppose i should just believe them...

CroakerNorge

For me, it's all about sustainability. Meaning, if I can still lose at a healthy rate (.5-2 lbs./week), eating as many calories as possible, that's exactly what I'm going to do. Therefore, in the long run, I don't see how eating below my recommended caloric intake would benefit me in any way, in fact, I'd probably want to stab someone because of feelings of deprivation. I'm in no rush to lose the weight, I certainly didn't gain it over night, I'm not going to lose it overnight either.

When I was heavier, I definitely burned more calories, now, not so much. I have to work twice as hard for as many calories burned, bummer. Though, I don't really enjoy "killing myself" to achieve a certain number of calories burned.

Where most "western" diets are concerned, starvation mode is a myth. It would take months of malnourishment to achieve what everyone considers to be the characteristics of starvation mode. Famine cultures are a good example of this.

CroakerNorge

Here's a nice encapsulation about dieting and your metabolism:

"Restricting calories during weight loss lowers metabolism1 because the body becomes more efficient, requiring fewer calories to perform the necessary daily functions for survival. Consequently, this can slow (but not stop) the anticipated rate of weight loss."

&

"While there is no biologic evidence to support the "starvation mode" myth, there may be behavioral reasons why weight loss stops when calories are severely reduced. Over-restriction of calorie intake, known as high dietary restraint is linked to periods of overeating, hindering successful weight loss."

Dietary restraint is defined as:
Dietary restraint is a term that describes how tightly food intake is controlled in an effort to manage weight. Highly restrained eaters tend to be very precise about how much they eat. For example, a highly restrained eater may follow a 1,200-calorie diet by limiting herself everyday to a regimen that includes exactly 200 calories at breakfast, 300 calories at lunch and 700 calories at dinner. She would not allow herself any snacks nor would she vary her intake from day-to-day.

People with high levels of dietary restraint are likely to add up the calories in every bite, read every label and talk a lot about how they watch what they are eating. Interestingly, very high levels of dietary restraint are not associated with successful weight management and may lead to abnormal eating patterns. People with high levels of dietary restraint are also prone to "on again/off again" weight-loss practices.

KellyBurton1

Im going through the excact same as you. Im 3 lbs away from losing 100 lbs. I've lost 39lbs with MFP. I dont think im going through starvation mode. I eat well and I dont be hungry. I keep within my calorie goal and excerise. I think Im not burning as well as before. Im thinking about getting a HRM just to see if thats the case. What path did your doctor direct you too? Did he/she have any recommendations?

jasonweinberg

just curious where those quotes are from. while the validity of the first theory is the point of this post, i do see the validity of the second: severe restriction does tempt me to "cheat" more often than a moderate restriction does. then again, even when i do "cheat" i still am generally below moderate restriction anyway. my program actually started with moderate restriction and once i had mastered that it took me to a very low intake level. which i supposed to last until goal weight is reached. its important to note also that my prgogram does not end at goal and that i remain on it with regular check-ins for life if i choose.

tross0924

Your doctor and nutritionist are contradicting themselves if they said that your metabolism doesn't slow but your body redirects the calories you take in to your most important functions.

Why would your body need to redirect anything? What happened to the energy that was being used to grow your hair that was redirected to keep your heart beating? If you use 1000 calories for your heart and 20 calories for your hair and then start using 1000 calories for your heart and none for your hair that's a 2% reduction in the amount of energy your body is using. How many other things get redirected to more important functions? How quick do those 2% reductions add up?

jasonweinberg

well, there is the energy that is coming from burning your stored fat as well. actually, now that you mention that, it was my nutritionist that said your body was re-allocating you calories which might cause hair-loss. my dr. said the hair loss is caused by "stress" as a result of rapid weight loss. i have been having some moderate hair loss.

crissi66

I think mentioning the point that he excercises faithfully is something that people arent mentioning. As important as it is to watch what you eat, exercise is just as important. A sendentary life style will make it impossible to lose weight and keep it off.

CroakerNorge

FYI, exercise isn't necessary for weight loss, however it's good for overall health and well-being.

I got those quotes from the WW website, which explained it as "layman-y" as possible.
However, I've read it time and time again, every which way til sunday.

crissi66

Everyone is different. For me if i dont take myself to the gym it doesnt matter if i eat my 1300 calories a day or 1000 my weight isnt moving. A healthy lifestyle has to incorporate so kind of excercise for most of us or we probably would have weight issues to begin with.

jasonweinberg

i just find that people repeat the whole starvation mode concept because they've heard it somewhere and believe it to be true but don't really have any evidence either personal or otherwise to document its validity. i didn't specifically bring up exercise, but that does go into the other aspect of this discussion of whether you should consume your "earned calories" through exercise. again, my program does not make allowances for that i am on a hard limit. i myself am fairly physically active and that is definitely part of why i have been so successful on this program. and it does go back to what my program maintains:

calories burned - calories consumed = weight loss .

as far as they are concerned it is as simple as that.

CroakerNorge

I find that when people are looking for excuses where their weight loss is concerned, they'll believe just about anything like:

Starvation mode

I must be reaching a plateau b/c I didn't lose any weight this week.

I'm not seeing results quick enough (oh really? good thing too otherwise you'd have sagging skin and do damage to
your internal organs. No, you're ont on an episode of The Biggest Loser. Good luck with maintaining those losses.)

It's all about calories in/calories out,. You don't HAVE to exercise to lose weight/remain thin. I wouldn't recommend it, but it's the truth.

jasonweinberg

@kelly: sorry i missed your post before. i don't think my situation is exacty the same as yours as i am still losing at a cinsitent pace, although as i mentioned for quite a while i have been at a much lower calorie limit to maintain that. my program's recommendation is simple: stay the course until i reach goal, then go on a maintenance diet for life.

tross0924

Google Starvation Study. I think it was the University of Michigan in the 40's. They conducted a study where they actual starved people for long periods so they could see the best way to reintroduce people to a normal way of eating after being starved.

The basic results were that after prolonged calorie restricted diets of 50% or less of the subjects BMR they enter starvation mode. Not after skipping lunch, not after a day or a week, and not after 1199 calorie diets. The subject experienced a reduction in thier BMR of about 40%. Some of this was because by this point they'd lost substantial weight, and some was from their bodies slowing down. The also experienced major emotion effects. One even cut off some of his fingers.

Starvation mode is real, but at no point in the study did they stop loosing weight. Starvation mode as used by people who say skipping lunch will cause you to enter it is not real. Starvation mode as a reason for a plateau isn't real.

The other factor is that overweight people have a defense against starvation mode allowing them to consume their fat stores for extra calories for longer periods of time.

Understandably the study wasn't ever repeated, but it's the best information we have on extended starvation. Google, bing, or yahoo your heart out. There's about a million different sumarries you can read. All in all, if your not under 25% body fat and haven't been doing it for months since you went under then as long as you feel good you should be fine.

Just be careful that what your doing is sustainable long term.

kennedar

I do not mean to sound snarky, but I have to ask: Are you talking about a "normal" GP or family doctor? Or is this a doctor something like Dr. Bernstein or somehting similar? By this I mean, are you paying this doctor to help you lose weight in a weight loss clinic/setting or are you just paying your "normal" co-pays. (I am from Canada and am unsure how it works in the States and else-where. But here your family doctors and specialists are free but the weight loss clinic doctors are paid by the patient). I only ask because it sounds like they are saying things that contradict themselves. If this is your family doctor, they could just be mistaken. I have had family doctors tell me things that I know are physically impossible before, so it is easy for them to be confused. But I have to wonder if they are with a Dr Bernstein type clinic which focuses on a very highly restriced calorie deficit (My mother in law was eating fewer than 500 calories a day at one point on this program) that is part of the plan. In that case, I think they are most likely telling you what you need to hear to keep paying them the huge amounts that the program costs.

jasonweinberg

i am not paying out of pocket and yes it is a weight loss program. while i am sure that weight-loss is a very profitable line of business, i feel they have already strongly proved their value to me. i am not sure exactly what you are referring to regarding them contradicting themsleves, although someone pereviously mentioned something more specific along those lines. the question again is fairly specific: does eating too few calories actually slow weight loss or not, as many commonly believe. simply my "team" says it doesn't and they have me on a very low calorie regimen as they monitor my health for me.

as for it being sustainable long-term (from the previous post) as i said before it doesn't have to be. once target weight is reached a higher calorie maintenance diet begins. as for the study mentioned, i am currently below 50% of my bmr and have been for a few months. my maintenance diet will be set at 100% based on my target weight.

btw congratulations to you on your 127 lbs. weight loss. how long did it take you? i am six months in and my goal loss is 121. i hope to nail that in 2-3 more months...

kennedar

I did not mean to offend you, and am very sorry if I did.

I have just seen many family members get very sick from a doctor who practises here and puts people on hugely calorie restricted diets, in the neighborhood of 500 calories a day. While he is a licensed doctor, and the plan uses many different nutrionists, doctors and nurses, it is not a healthy plan. My immediate family has had people pass out, horrible leg cramps, vomitting, etc all from this plan. You have mentioned that you are already losing your hair from your plan, that is not a normal side effect of a healthy weight loss plan.

I was referrencing Tross's comment about the calories being re-directed, which I completely agree with. The starvation study is real and very scary. If you are eating less than 50% of your BMR, that is the definition of starvation. If you feel that this is healthy and sustainable for you, then all the more power to you. I am not a doctor and do not pretend to be one. All that I can tell you is what my experience has been with family and friends who have followed what sounds like a similar plan and what the outcome has been. Not a single one of them has kept the weight off for more than a few months and all have gained substantially more weight that what they lost.

tross0924

It's been almost 14 months for me.

The reason i mentioned sustsinabilty though is most people have a difficult time adjusting from eating rice cakes and nothing but, to eating a balanced diet. It seems a pit fall for many people, and once the go back to normal eating they eat the way they did before the diet which is how they gained weight to begin with. Not sure what you're eating or how, but just be careful with any sudden change in eating patterns.

And congrats to you on your loss too. :-)

jasonweinberg

definitely not eaing rice cakes! my focus is on lean meats, protein rich foods, a little dairy, lots of green vegetables and as few carbs and sugars as possible. once i reach maintenance the core of my diet will remain the same but i will be able to re-intsoduce more brad, carbs and fruits. i will not howver return to eating junk, drinking beer and soda and basicallly gorging myself whenever i feel a little hungry. that's what got me overweight and i don't plan on going back.