Gym + Running = Overtraining?

sati18

Hi Guys,

I dont really think i can be overtraining but I'm getting a bit frustrated at the moment. I've been running for about a year and a half, usually twice a week and usually around 3-5 miles per run. I was previously doing some workout dvds on days where i wasnt running, depending on whether i felt like it or not. However, i've joined a Gym with my partner and we're going twice a week, doing about 40 mins cardio and 20 mins on the weights machines. Anyway, this seems to be really impacting my running. I'm now only trying to get one extra run in (as i also run on the treadmill when in the gym) but i want to make it a good one because i worked hard to get up to 5 miles and i dont want to lose it.

I'm finding though that my legs are so tired, maybe from the strength machines, that I'm having to stop after a couple of miles. I'm usually pretty good at pushing through stuff but today i just couldn't and it's been hard the last few weeks.

Any advice? I love the calorie burn i get down the gym, and i want to do the strength too but i dont want to sacrifice the work i put into running for last year?

MeanderingMammal

Might depend on how you're scheduling or the type of resistance training that you do. As running is your priority then your leg work needs to complement that.

I'd suggest not using the dreadmill in the gym, focus on the resistance work, but maybe add a third real world run in. Or use something else for your indoor CV; rowing machine is good.

jenilla1

I personally only do cardio on my run days. At the gym I do a very brief warmup, but then it's all weights. I find I perform better at both weights and running this way.

GeorgiesTraining

Hmm, this is definitely a common problem for many.

My two cents, prioritise either one exercise method (cardio or resistance training) OR use resistance training to benefit your cardio. For example, use non-sport specific resistance exercises to benefit your body's functional capacity.
Things like:
Core development
Deadlifts
Lunges
Rows
Integrated Cable movements

For the former option, cardio and resistance training offer distinct benefits. If your goal is to maintain your cardio capacity then let that be your prioritised exercise. But often the two don't compliment each other in close proximity unless you switch up the parameters (anaerobic cardio for example, kettlebells or HIIT.)

If you wanted to pursue running and strength training however I'd recommend these two things, ensure calories are sufficient, and switch the ratios of time spent. On a ratio of resistance:cardio I'd aim for 80:20.

You're definitely not over training, but rather gunning for goals they conflict with each other. It can be done but requires smart and deliberate actions. Hope you can pull something out of my ramble, happy lifting (Y)

whitebalance

I keep my cardio and strength separate, except I'm experimenting with doing both on one day a week. Last fall I got my running distance up to 5-6 miles. But for me, an infrequent runner, the DOMS from running is so bad that it throws off the rest of my workout schedule... So I've put running on hold for a while.

In your case, since running is a priority, if I were you I'd give some thought to reducing the time on cardio in the gym and emphasizing that real-world run. I've read from harder-core runners that treadmill and outdoor running are very different, so that's something to consider too. Maybe the treadmill isn't great training for the kind of running you normally do.

sati18

Hi All, firstly thank you all for such very quick and helpful replies! I'm happy to tweak my gym workouts if you think that would solve the problem - one thing I did want to add though is that I'm reasonably positive it isn't the cardio in the gym thats the problem... purely because I had no problems when i was running twice a week + cycling occasionally or running twice a week and doing a circuit training session as well... I feel like it's got to be the resistance machines maybe - if thats possible

Here's my current routine - if you have suggestions on how i could switch it around I'll absolutely try them, even if you disagree with the above point and tell me it's the cardio :P

Monday - Gym
Cardio:
5 mins rowing machine
15 mins cycling (stationary bike)
20 mins running, treadmill @ around 6 mph
possibly another 5 mins rowing or 5 mins on the crosstrainer (hate that thing)

Resistance:
Overhead press machine 3 sets of 15 reps (whatever weight i feel my arms can take)
Chest press maching 3 sets of 15 reps (whatever weight i feel my arms can take)
Leg lift machine 3 sets of 15 reps
Squat machine (can't remember the name of it) again 3 sets of 15 reps

Tuesday or Wednesday
Run, outdoors 3-5 miles, as much as i can do (relaxed pace)

Thursday - same gym routine as monday

My gym is tiny so they don't have many machines, there is a dumbell rack too but thats about it. The stupid thing is I'm only doing the leg machines to try and strengthen my knees for the running as I do get some knee pain every now and then and I thought squats would help!

I wonder if maybe getting the run in on Monday and swapping the gym to Tuesday might help - what do you think?

sati18

To those who said about only doing weights at the gym, tbh with how limited my gym is I'd struggle to do a decent workout just on the weights machines. I'd be wasting my money going there... I'm trying to support the OH and get him going with it too - i feel like if i stopped the gym (nevermind that i enjoy it) he'd probably stop too - so there's other reasons why i want to continue with the gym as well if possible.

GeorgiesTrain - thanks for the very in depth ramble. I must admit i'm going to have to google those exercises on my lunch rbeach because i havent a clue what most of them are!

GillianMcK

If you wanted to pursue running and strength training however I'd recommend these two things, ensure calories are sufficient, and switch the ratios of time spent. On a ratio of resistance:cardio I'd aim for 80:20.

You're definitely not over training, but rather gunning for goals they conflict with each other. It can be done but requires smart and deliberate actions. Hope you can pull something out of my ramble, happy lifting (Y)

This, are you eating enough to fuel the strength and cardio??

I run 4 times a week (marathon training so my long ru has gone up as far as 20miles) and normally do weights twice a week, there's only 1 day where my running and weights are on the same day and I do the running first, then the weights.
One of my weights sessions is within my PT so we do focus on legs to help the running muscles, deadlifts, clean & press, squats, all help with my leg muscles that then help with the running, I did struggle at the beginning with my run the day after weights but learned to cope with it as I got stronger.

MeanderingMammal

Monday - Gym
Cardio:
5 mins rowing machine
15 mins cycling (stationary bike)
20 mins running, treadmill @ around 6 mph
possibly another 5 mins rowing or 5 mins on the crosstrainer (hate that thing)

Resistance:
Overhead press machine 3 sets of 15 reps (whatever weight i feel my arms can take)
Chest press maching 3 sets of 15 reps (whatever weight i feel my arms can take)
Leg lift machine 3 sets of 15 reps
Squat machine (can't remember the name of it) again 3 sets of 15 reps

OK, all of that CV work before the resistance means you're not getting the effect from the resistance work.

My focus is on running, I'm currently on a half marathon plan so I'm running four times per week, doing one other CV session and two resistance sessions. That broadly means:

Sunday - Long slow run of up to about 15 miles, subject to where I am in the plan
Monday - Moderate distance recovery pace run of up to between 5 and 7 miles followed by bodyweight resistance training
Tuesday - Tempo run, duration of up to 90 minutes subject to whee I am in the plan possibly followed by bodyweight resistance subject to cumulative distance
Wednesday - Cycle or row
Thursday - rest day, sometimes I cycle
Friday - Recovery pace run of between 5 and 7 miles
Saturday - Cycle or row, bodyweight resistance session

I reconise what you're saying about motivating effect of the gym, but I'd echo the point about using free weights rather than machines for your resistance session, if at all possible.

You're certainly not overtraining, but I'd agree with the points about food consumption perhaps being low.

sati18

@ GillianMcK

Usually i eat back my exercise calories and then some (previously had a tendency to be over every day) - but this last week I've been really cutting back on eating junk (during the week) because I'm off to Spain at the end of next week to visit my nan and i'm a full 10lbs heavier than the last time i went. She's the sort who'll feel the need to comment :S

However, I do usually more than make up for any calorie deficits gained during the week, at the weekend (which explained the 10lb weight gain) so I think at the moment i'm coming in just about where MFP says i should. I'm pretty much maintaining within a 5lb range so i certainly wouldn't want to eat more overall. Ideally I'd like to maintain at where i am

Apologies for being a bit vague - I'm recovering from bulimia so gaining weight is a massive fear for me. I've used MFP basically to relearn how to eat again and the exercise helps me hugely because it gives me more calories and makes me reconnect with how a body should feel. I love feeling strong and fit and having energy which i never had before

sati18

I reconise what you're saying about motivating effect of the gym, but I'd echo the point about using free weights rather than machines for your resistance session, if at all possible.

You're certainly not overtraining, but I'd agree with the points about food consumption perhaps being low.

OK so use the dumbells rather than the machines? No problem i like the dumbells fine and they have things like medicine balls and kettlebells if that would be better?

What is bodyweight resistance training?

_Terrapin_

Hi All, firstly thank you all for such very quick and helpful replies! I'm happy to tweak my gym workouts if you think that would solve the problem - one thing I did want to add though is that I'm reasonably positive it isn't the cardio in the gym thats the problem... purely because I had no problems when i was running twice a week + cycling occasionally or running twice a week and doing a circuit training session as well... I feel like it's got to be the resistance machines maybe - if thats possible

Here's my current routine - if you have suggestions on how i could switch it around I'll absolutely try them, even if you disagree with the above point and tell me it's the cardio :P

Monday - Gym
Cardio:
5 mins rowing machine
15 mins cycling (stationary bike)
20 mins running, treadmill @ around 6 mph
possibly another 5 mins rowing or 5 mins on the crosstrainer (hate that thing)

Resistance:
Overhead press machine 3 sets of 15 reps (whatever weight i feel my arms can take)
Chest press maching 3 sets of 15 reps (whatever weight i feel my arms can take)
Leg lift machine 3 sets of 15 reps
Squat machine (can't remember the name of it) again 3 sets of 15 reps

Tuesday or Wednesday
Run, outdoors 3-5 miles, as much as i can do (relaxed pace)

Thursday - same gym routine as monday

My gym is tiny so they don't have many machines, there is a dumbell rack too but thats about it. The stupid thing is I'm only doing the leg machines to try and strengthen my knees for the running as I do get some knee pain every now and then and I thought squats would help!

I wonder if maybe getting the run in on Monday and swapping the gym to Tuesday might help - what do you think?

Swapping would help, and it would be of benefit to know you ought to increase your long weekly run by 10% per week. If you are running outdoors 1 to 2 days a week and doing the above workouts you may want to consider adding a run day, even if it is short, and prior to the other person showing up at the gym(maybe modify the cardio on one of your gym days to accomplish this)

MeanderingMammal

OK so use the dumbells rather than the machines? No problem i like the dumbells fine and they have things like medicine balls and kettlebells if that would be better?

What is bodyweight resistance training?

If you're using machines you're isolating the muscle that you're exercising, so you end up having to do more work to exercise the whole system. You'll get far more benefit from whole body exercises that work a range of movements, and as a runner really work your core strength.

Deadlifts, Squats, Chest press, Rows etc. Dumbells will be fine, you'll probably find that you outgrow them so more to a barbell later.

Bodyweight is just using the weight of your body to provide the resistance; press ups, planks, mountain climbers, chin ups etc. Personally I use some of the exercises in You Are Your Own Gym so give myself some challenges. From the perspective of running I can do all of them outdoors, so can buld them into a run. Go 5-6km to the park, do a session, then run home.

contingencyplan

Those machines you're using are meant only to be a supplement to free weights, not replace them. You should be using free weights. Much better workout in less time. Running performance will suffer somewhat if you try to get a run in before your muscles have fully recovered from the gym workouts because muscles in a state of recovery simply aren't capable of producing as much work as when they're fresh.

MeanderingMammal

Also - http://www.parkrun.org.uk/southsea/

You might find parkrun builds neatly into your training.

LKArgh

What you describe is mostly still cardion in the gym, with a few exercises for strength training. Separate your routines: Like some days running like you used to, then some days a full body workout at the gym, preferably barbells or dumbells. And if you have knee issues, forget the leg training machine, it will make the problems worse.

SunofaBeach14

You are not overtraining. You've added a bit of work to your routine and you need to just give your body time to adapt.

Mariachicat

I've upped my running to 3-6 miles every night (about 60-70 min for me) plus 45-60 minutes of the Jillian Michaels "No More Trouble Zones" workout. Then I try to do a Yoga For Runners 25 minute program. The NMTZ workout does planks, crunches, some mat/leg work, and uses dumbbells. I feel like I'm making progress with this workout. I could do it in a more moderate way but I'm trying to get to my goal weight in 2-3 months. When I reach my GW, I might do this every other day instead of every day, or 3-4x/week. I've noticed that even though I like to get the NMTZ workout over with first so that I can enjoy the runs more, the workouts feel more effective when I do the running first. I think that's because it warms the body up so that it can do the muscle work more effectively. Also, adding the Yoga For Runners program really helped my body recover and not shorten and tighten from all the sudden running. Hope this helps.

sati18

Also - http://www.parkrun.org.uk/southsea/

You might find parkrun builds neatly into your training.

Just checked the website - thank you that looks awesome I will most definitely sign up and give it a bash!

sati18

I've upped my running to 3-6 miles every night (about 60-70 min for me) plus 45-60 minutes of the Jillian Michaels "No More Trouble Zones" workout. Then I try to do a Yoga For Runners 25 minute program. The NMTZ workout does planks, crunches, some mat/leg work, and uses dumbbells. I feel like I'm making progress with this workout. I could do it in a more moderate way but I'm trying to get to my goal weight in 2-3 months. When I reach my GW, I might do this every other day instead of every day, or 3-4x/week. I've noticed that even though I like to get the NMTZ workout over with first so that I can enjoy the runs more, the workouts feel more effective when I do the running first. I think that's because it warms the body up so that it can do the muscle work more effectively. Also, adding the Yoga For Runners program really helped my body recover and not shorten and tighten from all the sudden running. Hope this helps.

wow that is an incredible amount of exercise - amazing! I'm pretty sure no matter what i'll never be able to do that much but i will definitely look at the yoga for runners then if it helps

sati18

You are not overtraining. You've added a bit of work to your routine and you need to just give your body time to adapt.

I was hoping someone would say that


I'll try swapping the days round so i'm not running in between my gym days and do free weights instead of the machines and see if that helps make it a little easier too