Protein and vegetarianism

Janette3x4

Ignore protein. It is the biggest myth in all of nutrition. It is near impossible to not get enough protein if you are getting enough calories.

A human baby will grow 300% in its first two years of life consuming only mothers milk. Human breast milk is around 4.5% protein by calories. Never in your life will you need more protein then in your first two years of life.

Yes! This ????‼

SunofaBeach14

Low fat dairy and beans, and fish if you eat it?

Why would a vegetarian eat fish lol

I know a lot of people who call themselves vegetarian and eat fish.... Not sure why you found that funny though?

That's called a pescatarian
Vegetarians do not eat animals. But for some reason people don't consider fish an animals. Blows my mind.

and of course eggs are plants

VeganCappy

They must be referring to percentage of protein by weight here. would have to eat a tremendous amount of raw spinach to get an appreciable amount of protein!!!!!!! ( 500 grams of spinach to get 14 grams protein)

neat chart though.

They are listing protein of total calories. One cup of spinach is 1 gram of protein which is more than say an apple, or a cup of grapes.

Not that I am a math wiz.... but perhaps Im just confused. if the chart is showing percent of protein of total calories, then something is amiss.

100 calories of spinach has 12 grams of protein (12 grams* 4 calories per gram = 48 calories out of 100 is protein) neat!

however, 100 calories of Chicken breast meat has 21 grams protein ( 21*4= 84 calories out of 100 is protein) which is outstandingly higher than the "23%" that the chart calls out.

I don't care either way, I just like to know how things like this get calculated.

Yes, the chart doesn't list the type of chicken or beef and the ratio can vary immensely. Beef can be anywhere from 5% protein and 95% fat to 95% protein and 5% fat. Chicken can vary immensely, but not this much. Chicken tends to have less fat overall. But was it chicken with skin or without skin? A good deal of online nutritional data comes from the industries that are promoting that product, so what you see on nutrition websites is usually the best, most premium cuts they could find and then averaged from there.

SunofaBeach14

Ignore protein. It is the biggest myth in all of nutrition. It is near impossible to not get enough protein if you are getting enough calories.

A human baby will grow 300% in its first two years of life consuming only mothers milk. Human breast milk is around 4.5% protein by calories. Never in your life will you need more protein then in your first two years of life.

This post is just ridiculous.

Would you like to provide an intelligent rebuttal?

I think that might be on you. Incredible claims are often the ones that require evidence.

I was a vegan for five years, worked out and exercised every day on a protein deficient diet and while I was "healthy" I looked like I had AIDS and or was undergoing cancer treatment.

Not sure I could jump into the camp of protein being a myth without some facts to support it.

Numerous studies by the WHO have determined that 97.5% of the adult population need only around 2.5% calories by protein. They doubled this to cover 99% of the adult population. They then doubled it again just to be safe. 10% protein by calories. It is almost impossible to get less than 7% or 8% protein by calories eating just fruits and veggies.

And I should mentioned they don't list it as % of calories. They list it as a protein/kg of body weight. .66 grams per kg of bodyweight is their recommendation for an adult. For a 70kg adult, that comes out to 184.8 (.66 x 4 x 70) calories of protein per day. It that 70kg adult is a 25 year old male of 178 cm in height, then their RMR is around 2,000 calories. So, for this adult male, the recommendation is 9.25% protein by calories for a sedentary individual. If that person is very active and they burn an extra 1,000 calories in a day, then it would drop to 6.2% protein by calories.

http://whqlibdoc.who.int/trs/WHO_TRS_935_eng.pdf?ua=1


My anecdotal experience is the opposite of yours. I lost nearly 100 pounds eating a high card, low protein, low fat diet, and then added on over 30 pounds of muscle. Actually, I am close to 40 pounds of added muscle now.

I would ask you what your diet was like, and what kinds of exercise did you engage in.

Just lol. :laugh:

Cryptonomnomicon

Low fat dairy and beans, and fish if you eat it?

Why would a vegetarian eat fish lol

I know a lot of people who call themselves vegetarian and eat fish.... Not sure why you found that funny though?

That's called a pescatarian
Vegetarians do not eat animals. But for some reason people don't consider fish an animals. Blows my mind.

and of course eggs are plants

Obviously!

MinnesotaManimal

They must be referring to percentage of protein by weight here. would have to eat a tremendous amount of raw spinach to get an appreciable amount of protein!!!!!!! ( 500 grams of spinach to get 14 grams protein)

neat chart though.

They are listing protein of total calories. One cup of spinach is 1 gram of protein which is more than say an apple, or a cup of grapes.

Not that I am a math wiz.... but perhaps Im just confused. if the chart is showing percent of protein of total calories, then something is amiss.

100 calories of spinach has 12 grams of protein (12 grams* 4 calories per gram = 48 calories out of 100 is protein) neat!

however, 100 calories of Chicken breast meat has 21 grams protein ( 21*4= 84 calories out of 100 is protein) which is outstandingly higher than the "23%" that the chart calls out.

I don't care either way, I just like to know how things like this get calculated.

Yes, the chart doesn't list the type of chicken or beef and the ratio can vary immensely. Beef can be anywhere from 5% protein and 95% fat to 95% protein and 5% fat. Chicken can vary immensely, but not this much. Chicken tends to have less fat overall. But was it chicken with skin or without skin? A good deal of online nutritional data comes from the industries that are promoting that product, so what you see on nutrition websites is usually the best, most premium cuts they could find and then averaged from there.

I found it fun because it spurred me to run the numbers and found that you can get the same amount of protein (12 grams) from 100 calories of spinach as you can from 100 calories of Chicken breast eaten with the fat and skin. Enlightenment is fun. The more you know.... :-)

neandermagnon

They must be referring to percentage of protein by weight here. would have to eat a tremendous amount of raw spinach to get an appreciable amount of protein!!!!!!! ( 500 grams of spinach to get 14 grams protein)

neat chart though.

They are listing protein of total calories. One cup of spinach is 1 gram of protein which is more than say an apple, or a cup of grapes.

Not that I am a math wiz.... but perhaps Im just confused. if the chart is showing percent of protein of total calories, then something is amiss.

100 calories of spinach has 12 grams of protein (12 grams* 4 calories per gram = 48 calories out of 100 is protein) neat!

however, 100 calories of Chicken breast meat has 21 grams protein ( 21*4= 84 calories out of 100 is protein) which is outstandingly higher than the "23%" that the chart calls out.

I don't care either way, I just like to know how things like this get calculated.

Yes, the chart doesn't list the type of chicken or beef and the ratio can vary immensely. Beef can be anywhere from 5% protein and 95% fat to 95% protein and 5% fat. Chicken can vary immensely, but not this much. Chicken tends to have less fat overall. But was it chicken with skin or without skin? A good deal of online nutritional data comes from the industries that are promoting that product, so what you see on nutrition websites is usually the best, most premium cuts they could find and then averaged from there.

I found it fun because it spurred me to run the numbers and found that you can get the same amount of protein (12 grams) from 100 calories of spinach as you can from 100 calories of Chicken breast eaten with the fat and skin. Enlightenment is fun. The more you know.... :-)

what about with 100 calories of chicken breast, fat and skin removed?

VeganCappy

Ignore protein. It is the biggest myth in all of nutrition. It is near impossible to not get enough protein if you are getting enough calories.

A human baby will grow 300% in its first two years of life consuming only mothers milk. Human breast milk is around 4.5% protein by calories. Never in your life will you need more protein then in your first two years of life.

This post is just ridiculous.

Would you like to provide an intelligent rebuttal?

I think that might be on you. Incredible claims are often the ones that require evidence.

I was a vegan for five years, worked out and exercised every day on a protein deficient diet and while I was "healthy" I looked like I had AIDS and or was undergoing cancer treatment.

Not sure I could jump into the camp of protein being a myth without some facts to support it.

Numerous studies by the WHO have determined that 97.5% of the adult population need only around 2.5% calories by protein. They doubled this to cover 99% of the adult population. They then doubled it again just to be safe. 10% protein by calories. It is almost impossible to get less than 7% or 8% protein by calories eating just fruits and veggies.

And I should mentioned they don't list it as % of calories. They list it as a protein/kg of body weight. .66 grams per kg of bodyweight is their recommendation for an adult. For a 70kg adult, that comes out to 184.8 (.66 x 4 x 70) calories of protein per day. It that 70kg adult is a 25 year old male of 178 cm in height, then their RMR is around 2,000 calories. So, for this adult male, the recommendation is 9.25% protein by calories for a sedentary individual. If that person is very active and they burn an extra 1,000 calories in a day, then it would drop to 6.2% protein by calories.

http://whqlibdoc.who.int/trs/WHO_TRS_935_eng.pdf?ua=1


My anecdotal experience is the opposite of yours. I lost nearly 100 pounds eating a high card, low protein, low fat diet, and then added on over 30 pounds of muscle. Actually, I am close to 40 pounds of added muscle now.

I would ask you what your diet was like, and what kinds of exercise did you engage in.

I guess you don't understand the difference between "minimal" and "optimal". The WHO recommendations are the minimum amount to avoid malnutrition.

I addressed that in my other post concerning recommended protein intake for bodybuilders.

Also, if you would read the information I posted, you will find that the WHO determined 2.5% protein by calories was sufficient for 97.5% of the population. That other 2.5% had absorption issues. At 5% it just up to 99% of the population is covered. Then they doubled it again just to be safe.

Optimal for bodybuilders is still less than 15% protein by calories.

Cryptonomnomicon

Ignore protein. It is the biggest myth in all of nutrition. It is near impossible to not get enough protein if you are getting enough calories.

A human baby will grow 300% in its first two years of life consuming only mothers milk. Human breast milk is around 4.5% protein by calories. Never in your life will you need more protein then in your first two years of life.

This post is just ridiculous.

Would you like to provide an intelligent rebuttal?

I think that might be on you. Incredible claims are often the ones that require evidence.

I was a vegan for five years, worked out and exercised every day on a protein deficient diet and while I was "healthy" I looked like I had AIDS and or was undergoing cancer treatment.

Not sure I could jump into the camp of protein being a myth without some facts to support it.

Numerous studies by the WHO have determined that 97.5% of the adult population need only around 2.5% calories by protein. They doubled this to cover 99% of the adult population. They then doubled it again just to be safe. 10% protein by calories. It is almost impossible to get less than 7% or 8% protein by calories eating just fruits and veggies.

And I should mentioned they don't list it as % of calories. They list it as a protein/kg of body weight. .66 grams per kg of bodyweight is their recommendation for an adult. For a 70kg adult, that comes out to 184.8 (.66 x 4 x 70) calories of protein per day. It that 70kg adult is a 25 year old male of 178 cm in height, then their RMR is around 2,000 calories. So, for this adult male, the recommendation is 9.25% protein by calories for a sedentary individual. If that person is very active and they burn an extra 1,000 calories in a day, then it would drop to 6.2% protein by calories.

http://whqlibdoc.who.int/trs/WHO_TRS_935_eng.pdf?ua=1


My anecdotal experience is the opposite of yours. I lost nearly 100 pounds eating a high card, low protein, low fat diet, and then added on over 30 pounds of muscle. Actually, I am close to 40 pounds of added muscle now.

I would ask you what your diet was like, and what kinds of exercise did you engage in.

Just lol. :laugh:

x10000000

I'm vegan and this BS just makes me want to punch a vegan...if the person who wrote the I don't even know what to call it because it doesn't come anywhere near science about protein intake is vegan.

Seriously ignore that whoever reads it.

MinnesotaManimal

what about with 100 calories of chicken breast, fat and skin removed?

according to MFP it was 21 grams which is 84 calories out of 100 being protein which is pretty sweet ratio.

VeganCappy

x10000000

I'm vegan and this BS just makes me want to punch a vegan...if the person who wrote the I don't even know what to call it because it doesn't come anywhere near science about protein intake is vegan.

Seriously ignore that whoever reads it.

Any references to counter the dozens of studies compiled by the WHO to which I linked?

MyNameIsBeki

Quorn, nuts, beans

TatianaSoe

When I was a student, one of my favourite quick and cheap breakfasts were egg, cheese, and black bean burritos.

Basically, pick up some tortillas, add some black beans (you can use canned but dried beans are dirt cheap), some cheese, a scrambled egg or two, and a bit of salsa. Best thing about these is that you can make a few ahead of time and when you are running late, you can toss them in the microwave and then take them to-go.

With the beans, cheese, and eggs in it, it should have a decent amount of protein.

Cryptonomnomicon

ETA: Can't even be bothered.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/819055-setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets

littlekitty3

OP Your fine with your intake. The protein hype in this country is overrated and not really that healthy. People who say things like cutting out carbs...really it just referring to cutting out processed crap.

Janette3x4

I use a vegan Pea protein shake mix. 2 servings (@ breakfast and lunch) equals 40 grams of protein for a total of around 200 calories.
It also is tasty and filling. Then I usually have some beans, tofu or nuts everyday. This gives me sufficient protein. Maybe even more than enough!

eric_sg61

Ignore protein. It is the biggest myth in all of nutrition. It is near impossible to not get enough protein if you are getting enough calories.

A human baby will grow 300% in its first two years of life consuming only mothers milk. Human breast milk is around 4.5% protein by calories. Never in your life will you need more protein then in your first two years of life.

This post is just ridiculous.

Would you like to provide an intelligent rebuttal?

I think that might be on you. Incredible claims are often the ones that require evidence.

I was a vegan for five years, worked out and exercised every day on a protein deficient diet and while I was "healthy" I looked like I had AIDS and or was undergoing cancer treatment.

Not sure I could jump into the camp of protein being a myth without some facts to support it.

Numerous studies by the WHO have determined that 97.5% of the adult population need only around 2.5% calories by protein. They doubled this to cover 99% of the adult population. They then doubled it again just to be safe. 10% protein by calories. It is almost impossible to get less than 7% or 8% protein by calories eating just fruits and veggies.

And I should mentioned they don't list it as % of calories. They list it as a protein/kg of body weight. .66 grams per kg of bodyweight is their recommendation for an adult. For a 70kg adult, that comes out to 184.8 (.66 x 4 x 70) calories of protein per day. It that 70kg adult is a 25 year old male of 178 cm in height, then their RMR is around 2,000 calories. So, for this adult male, the recommendation is 9.25% protein by calories for a sedentary individual. If that person is very active and they burn an extra 1,000 calories in a day, then it would drop to 6.2% protein by calories.

http://whqlibdoc.who.int/trs/WHO_TRS_935_eng.pdf?ua=1


My anecdotal experience is the opposite of yours. I lost nearly 100 pounds eating a high card, low protein, low fat diet, and then added on over 30 pounds of muscle. Actually, I am close to 40 pounds of added muscle now.

I would ask you what your diet was like, and what kinds of exercise did you engage in.

Most top level natural bodybuilders haven't even gained this much muscle over a lifetime. Either you took drugs or your full of it.

FunkyTobias

I lost nearly 100 pounds eating a high card, low protein, low fat diet, and then added on over 30 pounds of muscle. Actually, I am close to 40 pounds of added muscle now.

I would ask you what your diet was like, and what kinds of exercise did you engage in.

Most top level natural bodybuilders haven't even gained this much muscle over a lifetime. Either you took drugs or your full of it.

VeganCappy

1.4-2g of protein per kg of bodyweight is beneficial for individuals engaged in intense exercise:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20048505
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19278045
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17908291
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18500966

2-3g/kg is beneficial for athletes:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14971434

Older subjects lost lean mass getting the RDA protein recommendations (.8g/kg):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11382798

Double the RDA outperformed the RDA for individuals in a calorie deficit:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/495538
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16046715

Triple the RDA outperformed the RDA for individuals in a calorie deficit: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19927027

Subjects with a 1.5g/kg protein intake lost fat and gained lean mass:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10838463

Of people that don't exercise, high protien intake causes less lean-mass loss:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17299116

Ok, all of these studies reference athletes. Athletes are going to burn more a lot more calories than a non-athlete. Without knowing the calories that they burned, it is impossible to know the percentage of protein calories. 2g/kg of bodyweight for someone burning 6,000 calories in intense workouts is right around 10% protein by calories.

It certainly would help if these scientists would use percent protein by calories, because then there would be a consistent base from which to compare.

And as I previously mentioned, the highest recommendation I have ever heard of in a study is .81g / POUND of bodyweight, which is 1.78g/kg for bodybuilders.


And you need to read the studies which you post.

2-3g/kg is beneficial for athletes:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14971434
"However, there are few convincing outcome data to indicate that the ingestion of a high amount of protein (2-3 g x kg(-1) BW x day(-1), where BW = body weight) is necessary. "

Older subjects lost lean mass getting the RDA protein recommendations (.8g/kg):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11382798
Lack of a control group.

Double the RDA outperformed the RDA for individuals in a calorie deficit:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16046715
First off, these were all obese subjects.
"Subjects in the PRO and PRO + EX groups lost more total weight and fat mass and tended to lose less lean mass (P = 0.10) than the CHO and CHO + EX groups. Exercise increased loss of body fat and preserved lean mass."
0.05 < p <or= 0.1 : low presumption against neutral hypothesis
In other words, the data showed low statistical significance.

Triple the RDA outperformed the RDA for individuals in a calorie deficit:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19927027
"Fatigue ratings and "worse than normal" scores on the Daily Analysis of Life Demands for Athletes were higher in HP."

Of people that don't exercise, high protien intake causes less lean-mass loss:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17299116
Irrelevant. Consuming more protein during catabolization will slow the rate of catabolization. It doesn't mean that consuming more protein increases muscle mass on sedentary individuals. Show me a study with sedentary individuals increasing muscle mass from eating more protein and not increasing fat.

The rest of the studies actually support my argument that .81g/lb is the highest needed for bodybuilders.

VeganCappy

I lost nearly 100 pounds eating a high card, low protein, low fat diet, and then added on over 30 pounds of muscle. Actually, I am close to 40 pounds of added muscle now.

I would ask you what your diet was like, and what kinds of exercise did you engage in.

Most top level natural bodybuilders haven't even gained this much muscle over a lifetime. Either you took drugs or your full of it.

And you know how much I work out how?