Opinion on 'raw until four' raw vegan diet?
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mshannond
Posts: 60
I've been looking a lot into raw vegan diets. I am a vegetarian who eats eggs, yoghurt & chocolate and no other animal products.
I've always been interested as no matter whether I eat a meat based diet, dairy full or dairy free diet I feel tired & sluggish,
When I was doing the low carb diet I was miserable, binged and gained fat.
I'm considering raw until four, with a cooked vegetarian dinner & yoghurt in the evening for protein.
However people often criticise raw food-its for lack
Of nutrients.
The carb ratio & sugar & low protein also concerns me,
Any opinions on this?
I've always been interested as no matter whether I eat a meat based diet, dairy full or dairy free diet I feel tired & sluggish,
When I was doing the low carb diet I was miserable, binged and gained fat.
I'm considering raw until four, with a cooked vegetarian dinner & yoghurt in the evening for protein.
However people often criticise raw food-its for lack
Of nutrients.
The carb ratio & sugar & low protein also concerns me,
Any opinions on this?
0
Replies
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Personally, I don't eat much meat because I don't care for the taste. But I've been very successful in my journey , I don't take out any certain foods from my diet (unless I just truly don't like the taste) I've lost all my weight by eating what I want, just limiting the portions.
So personally I think that diets like "raw until 4" are not necessary. You can eat normally, just make sure you stay under your calorie goal.0 -
raw vegan is not a balanced diet. It's an example of people taking something that's reasonably good advice to a ridiculous extreme. i.e. "it's a good idea to eat more raw food" is good advice.... but taking this to the extreme of "cooked food is evil only eat raw food" is taking it way too far. Also, while it's possible to get enough nutrition on a plant only diet (so long as you supplement vitamin B12) it's not necessarily the best diet for overall health. Healthy tends to be in happy mediums, not extremes.
The "raw until 4" thing sounds like a way to make raw vegan diets less extreme and address a major problem with them, which is that they don't provide all the nutrition the human body needs. (cooking makes some nutrients more bioavailable; some foods e.g. beans, pulses, which are necessary on a vegan diet to get enough protein, need to be cooked)
vegan diets can be healthy so long as all the nutrients that the vegan isn't getting from animal products are being replaced somehow... this is easier with some nutrients than others, and vitamin B12 needs to be supplemented.... but combining this with a raw food only diet is basically combining two already very restrictive diets where it's hard to get enough nutrition thus making it all the more difficult (and maybe impossible) to get adequate nutrition from this diet.
If your primary reason for being vegan is ethics, then there are vegan organisations/websites that can advise you on how to get all the nutrients your body needs from plant foods. Please ignore anyone who claims that humans are meant to be herbivores. Humans are omnivores and can only live on a plant only diet due to advances in agriculture which enable high protein plant foods to be grown in sufficient quantities for a human to get enough protein from plant food (note that this includes eating beans and pulses which shouldn't be eaten raw)
If your primary reason for doing "raw until four" is health, then really, it's not the best diet for health. Eating more vegetables, eating more raw foods... this is good advice for most people, especially someone trying to lose fat. However there's no need to take this advice to crazy extremes. Meat is good for you. Cooked food is good for you. Too much of anything is bad for you. So just eat what you want in moderation, include plenty of fruits and veggies for the fibre, vitamins, minerals and carbs, get enough protein (beans and pulses are good for this if you're vegan for ethical reasons) and fat from sources that are rich in essential fatty acids and fat soluble vitamins. Additionally, it's not very sustainable. An ethical vegan may feel disgusted enough at the idea of eating animal products that this enables them to stick with a vegan diet long term. However someone who is just doing this for health reasons... well the track records of extremely restrictive diets aren't good... more moderate diets are much more conducive to long term success, because they're easier to stick to. And it's pointless trying to follow a highly restrictive diet when you can get the same or better health benefits from following a less restrictive one. Including lots of raw fruit and veggies in a diet where you're allowed to also eat meat, cooked food and whatever other foods you want in moderation will give you the same health benefits as a raw plant food only diet, but without the health risks.0 -
I follow a rawtill4 lifestyle. I started two months ago, prior to that I was miserable. I was calorie restricting, hungry, grumpy, DEPRIVED. I would eat well for a few weeks, binge, beat myself up and start the process again. I found rawtill4 and started a week later and I will never go back. I no longer suffer from IBS, headaches, tinnitus, ovarian cysts. Ontop of that I am so energized and vibrant. I have never experienced this level of vibrancy and happiness and it is incredible. I will follow this lifestyle for the rest of my life. If you follow a proper rawtill4 80/10/10 lifestyle then you will not be lacking any nutrients. Do your research, look at youtube videos online of what people eat in a day.0
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If your primary reason for doing "raw until four" is health, then really, it's not the best diet for health. Eating more vegetables, eating more raw foods... this is good advice for most people, especially someone trying to lose fat. However there's no need to take this advice to crazy extremes. Meat is good for you. Cooked food is good for you. Too much of anything is bad for you. So just eat what you want in moderation, include plenty of fruits and veggies for the fibre, vitamins, minerals and carbs, get enough protein (beans and pulses are good for this if you're vegan for ethical reasons) and fat from sources that are rich in essential fatty acids and fat soluble vitamins. Additionally, it's not very sustainable. An ethical vegan may feel disgusted enough at the idea of eating animal products that this enables them to stick with a vegan diet long term. However someone who is just doing this for health reasons... well the track records of extremely restrictive diets aren't good... more moderate diets are much more conducive to long term success, because they're easier to stick to. And it's pointless trying to follow a highly restrictive diet when you can get the same or better health benefits from following a less restrictive one. Including lots of raw fruit and veggies in a diet where you're allowed to also eat meat, cooked food and whatever other foods you want in moderation will give you the same health benefits as a raw plant food only diet, but without the health risks.
animal secretions and the flesh of animals is not good for you. but besides that, this diet is far from restrictive! I eat 3,000+ calories a day, of all the beautiful fruits for breakfast and lunch and dinner I can eat rice, potatoes, quinoa, couscous, sweet potatoes with a salad. I can even eat pasta. and I feel vibrant and I am loosing weight. THIS IS A LIFESTYLE OF ABUNDANCE.0 -
just want to read when I have time0
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The key rule to choosing a lifestyle is how sustainable it is. Can you keep doing this until the last day of your life? If you can, then go ahead. If not, then keep looking.0
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I'm vegetarian and eat vegan a lot and raw scares me. But thinking about it in not far off since I do a shake or smoothie for breakfast and salad for lunch most days but my salad involves cooked beans usually0
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If your primary reason for doing "raw until four" is health, then really, it's not the best diet for health. Eating more vegetables, eating more raw foods... this is good advice for most people, especially someone trying to lose fat. However there's no need to take this advice to crazy extremes. Meat is good for you. Cooked food is good for you. Too much of anything is bad for you. So just eat what you want in moderation, include plenty of fruits and veggies for the fibre, vitamins, minerals and carbs, get enough protein (beans and pulses are good for this if you're vegan for ethical reasons) and fat from sources that are rich in essential fatty acids and fat soluble vitamins. Additionally, it's not very sustainable. An ethical vegan may feel disgusted enough at the idea of eating animal products that this enables them to stick with a vegan diet long term. However someone who is just doing this for health reasons... well the track records of extremely restrictive diets aren't good... more moderate diets are much more conducive to long term success, because they're easier to stick to. And it's pointless trying to follow a highly restrictive diet when you can get the same or better health benefits from following a less restrictive one. Including lots of raw fruit and veggies in a diet where you're allowed to also eat meat, cooked food and whatever other foods you want in moderation will give you the same health benefits as a raw plant food only diet, but without the health risks.
animal secretions and the flesh of animals is not good for you. but besides that, this diet is far from restrictive! I eat 3,000+ calories a day, of all the beautiful fruits for breakfast and lunch and dinner I can eat rice, potatoes, quinoa, couscous, sweet potatoes with a salad. I can even eat pasta. and I feel vibrant and I am loosing weight. THIS IS A LIFESTYLE OF ABUNDANCE.
humans have eaten meat for millions of years, in fact humans have eaten meat ever since humans have existed, and humans wouldn't have evolved at all had australopithecines not eaten meat.
humans are omnivores, and all the great apes are also omnivores and in fact most species of primates are omnivores.
Given that, you can't really say that animal products are bad for humans. It's actually more the case that animal products are a necessary part of the diet for all great apes including humans, but humans have managed to develop sufficiently good agricultural methods to be able to grow plant proteins in enough quantities to be able to get enough protein from plants only, and have also developed laboratories that can produce vitamin B12 to supplement vegan diets. Without this technology, it's impossible for humans to survive without animal products, which is why there have been millions of human hunter-gatherer societies since humans first evolved, but no gatherer only societies.
By all means eat an animal product free diet so long as you're taking care to get all the nutrients you need and you feel happy doing it, but it's not true that animal products are bad for you, and if that's your only motivation for giving them up then maybe you need to reconsider whether it's worth it. Too much animal fat may be bad for you, but too much vegetable fat, vitamin A, vitamin D, iron and various other nutrients are also bad for you. You can even die from drinking too much water. This doesn't mean that those things are harmful in moderate amounts though. Animal products in sensible serving sizes are good for you.0 -
If your primary reason for doing "raw until four" is health, then really, it's not the best diet for health. Eating more vegetables, eating more raw foods... this is good advice for most people, especially someone trying to lose fat. However there's no need to take this advice to crazy extremes. Meat is good for you. Cooked food is good for you. Too much of anything is bad for you. So just eat what you want in moderation, include plenty of fruits and veggies for the fibre, vitamins, minerals and carbs, get enough protein (beans and pulses are good for this if you're vegan for ethical reasons) and fat from sources that are rich in essential fatty acids and fat soluble vitamins. Additionally, it's not very sustainable. An ethical vegan may feel disgusted enough at the idea of eating animal products that this enables them to stick with a vegan diet long term. However someone who is just doing this for health reasons... well the track records of extremely restrictive diets aren't good... more moderate diets are much more conducive to long term success, because they're easier to stick to. And it's pointless trying to follow a highly restrictive diet when you can get the same or better health benefits from following a less restrictive one. Including lots of raw fruit and veggies in a diet where you're allowed to also eat meat, cooked food and whatever other foods you want in moderation will give you the same health benefits as a raw plant food only diet, but without the health risks.
animal secretions and the flesh of animals is not good for you. but besides that, this diet is far from restrictive! I eat 3,000+ calories a day, of all the beautiful fruits for breakfast and lunch and dinner I can eat rice, potatoes, quinoa, couscous, sweet potatoes with a salad. I can even eat pasta. and I feel vibrant and I am loosing weight. THIS IS A LIFESTYLE OF ABUNDANCE.
In for animal secretions0 -
If you eat mainly vegetarian... Are you getting enough fat in your diet?
Depending on your stats, you need at least 50 grams (and most likely more) fat in your diet.
Veggies generally have "no" fat.0 -
If you eat mainly vegetarian... Are you getting enough fat in your diet?
Depending on your stats, you need at least 50 grams (and most likely more) fat in your diet.
Veggies generally have "no" fat.
Not necessarily true. I eat a lot of vegetarian but all of my salads are sprinkled with seeds, I cook with olive oil just like you would (I guess), I eat eggs and cheese (I note the OP does not, although she does it some dairy). Additionally I drink "bullet proof coffee" with coconut oil in it,
I think raw until 4 sounds like a reasonable compromise, try it out and see if it works for you and your lifestyle. If you find that it doesn't you can always tweak it by looking at doing 1 raw meal a day or something.0 -
When I said veggies generally had "no" fat, I meant vegetables. :P0
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If your primary reason for doing "raw until four" is health, then really, it's not the best diet for health. Eating more vegetables, eating more raw foods... this is good advice for most people, especially someone trying to lose fat. However there's no need to take this advice to crazy extremes. Meat is good for you. Cooked food is good for you. Too much of anything is bad for you. So just eat what you want in moderation, include plenty of fruits and veggies for the fibre, vitamins, minerals and carbs, get enough protein (beans and pulses are good for this if you're vegan for ethical reasons) and fat from sources that are rich in essential fatty acids and fat soluble vitamins. Additionally, it's not very sustainable. An ethical vegan may feel disgusted enough at the idea of eating animal products that this enables them to stick with a vegan diet long term. However someone who is just doing this for health reasons... well the track records of extremely restrictive diets aren't good... more moderate diets are much more conducive to long term success, because they're easier to stick to. And it's pointless trying to follow a highly restrictive diet when you can get the same or better health benefits from following a less restrictive one. Including lots of raw fruit and veggies in a diet where you're allowed to also eat meat, cooked food and whatever other foods you want in moderation will give you the same health benefits as a raw plant food only diet, but without the health risks.
animal secretions and the flesh of animals is not good for you. but besides that, this diet is far from restrictive! I eat 3,000+ calories a day, of all the beautiful fruits for breakfast and lunch and dinner I can eat rice, potatoes, quinoa, couscous, sweet potatoes with a salad. I can even eat pasta. and I feel vibrant and I am loosing weight. THIS IS A LIFESTYLE OF ABUNDANCE.
In for being able to eat 3,000+ calories and magically lose weight because there is no meat!!!!
If you are losing at that level at least be honest and open your food and exercise dairy up for the OP to look at because unless you are in a deficit then no you won't be losing weight!0 -
There are thousands following this same diet, and loosing or extremely thin eating an abundance of calories. You can check out Freelee the banana girl, durian rider, tanny raw. Look on youtube, if you search "801010 what I eat in a day" or "rawtill4 what I eat in a day" you will see how much people are eating and they aren't burning off thousands of calories.
I'd be happy to give you an example of my day
Breakfast: nine spotty ripe bananas, 1/4 cup of coconut palm sugar, 1L of water (blended into a smoothie) 1,084 calories
Lunch: eight mangos 1,076 calories
Dinner: 22 baby potatoes (salt free, oil free), 500g of sweet potato (salt free, oil free), Large salad with one head of red leaf lettuce, two cups of diced tomatoes, one cucumber, one zucchini, one cup of diced carrots, one red pepper, one green pepper, 30g hass avocado with no dressing. 1,099 calories
Total: 3,259 calories
I did 30 minutes of biking (mod. effort) and 30 minutes of yoga
That usually my workout for the day, yoga, biking, walking, maybe a workout dvd. nothing serious.
I am not only interested in weight loss and the benefits of this lifestyle are far beyond that. As I stated above in a previous comment, I no longer suffer from IBS, ovarian cysts, tinnitus, headaches, fatigue. I have energy and I feel vibrant and amazing.0 -
Your example day is almost completely devoid of protein. I sincerely hope you don't eat like that every day.
DYE essential amino acids?0 -
oh and there are lots of heroin addicts who are looking extremely thin and reporting that they feel great when they take heroin. There was even a "headbanger" trend in the late 70s early 80s where people would repeatedly bang their head against the wall and report that it made them feel great. So I think you need to find some stricter criteria for your diet. thin doesn't always equal being healthy. feeling great doesn't always equal being healthy.
a lot of anorexics report feeling great while starving themselves. It has something to do with endorphins. it's not a sign that the diet is good for you.
Eating more fruit may well help with a lot of digestive problems, but that doesn't mean that eating nothing but fruit is remotely healthy. Please try to get yourself out of this dichotomous one-extreme-or-the-other mindset and understand you can get all the health benefits from eating plenty of fruit and vegetables without giving up foods that contain protein. Adequate amounts of protein (including all the essential amino acids) are necessary for health. Kwashiorkor is usually a disease of extreme poverty, not one of crazy first-world people who've deluded themselves into believing that they can live without protein. The words "Darwin awards" spring to mind though....0 -
Do your research, you actually don't need to much protein in your diet, 10-30% is recommended and most people on rawtill4 follow a 80-10-10 ratio of carbs, protein and fat. Also I don't agree with you that humamns are made to eat animal products. This diet is not extreme in any sense it the way our body was meant to eat without any animal cruelty involved. This is not a fad diet, once you start and see all the benefits, you will never go back.
PS If your current diet is working for you and your losing weight, good for you but those who aren't even losing on there own diet shouldn't go talking bull**** bout diets they haven't even tried.0 -
There are thousands following this same diet, and loosing or extremely thin eating an abundance of calories. You can check out Freelee the banana girl, durian rider, tanny raw. Look on youtube, if you search "801010 what I eat in a day" or "rawtill4 what I eat in a day" you will see how much people are eating and they aren't burning off thousands of calories.
I'd be happy to give you an example of my day
Breakfast: nine spotty ripe bananas, 1/4 cup of coconut palm sugar, 1L of water (blended into a smoothie) 1,084 calories
Lunch: eight mangos 1,076 calories
Dinner: 22 baby potatoes (salt free, oil free), 500g of sweet potato (salt free, oil free), Large salad with one head of red leaf lettuce, two cups of diced tomatoes, one cucumber, one zucchini, one cup of diced carrots, one red pepper, one green pepper, 30g hass avocado with no dressing. 1,099 calories
Total: 3,259 calories
I did 30 minutes of biking (mod. effort) and 30 minutes of yoga
That usually my workout for the day, yoga, biking, walking, maybe a workout dvd. nothing serious.
I am not only interested in weight loss and the benefits of this lifestyle are far beyond that. As I stated above in a previous comment, I no longer suffer from IBS, ovarian cysts, tinnitus, headaches, fatigue. I have energy and I feel vibrant and amazing.
if it works for you, fine, but I'm not convinced that raw is so great and you really want to ensure you are getting a balance of nutrition in there and not stressing your system.
but here's the thing. I quite like mangoes. I love them dried and crystallised. But to eat EIGHT mangoes for lunch? er, no.0 -
Do your research, you actually don't need to much protein in your diet, 10-30% is recommended and most people on rawtill4 follow a 80-10-10 ratio of carbs, protein and fat. Also I don't agree with you that humamns are made to eat animal products. This diet is not extreme in any sense it the way our body was meant to eat without any animal cruelty involved. This is not a fad diet, once you start and see all the benefits, you will never go back.
PS If your current diet is working for you and your losing weight, good for you but those who aren't even losing on there own diet shouldn't go talking bull**** bout diets they haven't even tried.
I've done plenty of research... 30% protein is the standard amount of protein that's recommended, but it's hard (though not impossible) to get that on a vegan diet.... 10% is way too little. 80/10/10 is a very unbalanced macronutrient ratio, I wouldn't recommend it at all. Not enough fat or protein... yep you can survive on it, but there's a huge difference between survival and optimal health.
You can feel free to disagree with me and the entire field of evolutionary biology about human evolution if you so choose, I mean creationist Christians do that all the time so why not vegans too? Why not everyone just invent their own human evolution story to suit their own personal beliefs............ however, if you want to go by what's actually supported by actual archaeological evidence from the actual fossil record, then not only is it the case that humans are and always have been omnivores, it's also the case that had certain australopithecines not invented stone tools for the purpose of extracting brain and bone marrow from animal carcasses, then humans likely would never have evolved at all. We evolved eating meat, and more meat than the average primate (and the average primate is an omnivore... only some small brained primates are herbivores).
If you're vegan for ethical reasons, then go for it, but the health of vegans will be a lot better if they accept the fact that humans are omnivores and that a healthy vegan diet means making a conscious effort to replace the nutrients humans have always got from animal products from plant products instead (including some from supplements)... modern technology is what makes this possible. I don't have anything against the veganism in and of itself..... it's all the raw/80/10/10/humans are herbivores crap that I disagree with, because that results in a very unhealthy version of the vegan diet that's lacking in a lot of nutrients, including fat and protein.... those diets are like vegans giving up even trying to get a balanced diet on plant foods and instead reinventing human biology in their minds to suit their personal beliefs and their choice to be lazy about nutrition.
BTW you're assuming that I haven't tried veganism. I have. I don't eat like that any more though.0 -
There are thousands following this same diet, and loosing or extremely thin eating an abundance of calories. You can check out Freelee the banana girl, durian rider, tanny raw. Look on youtube, if you search "801010 what I eat in a day" or "rawtill4 what I eat in a day" you will see how much people are eating and they aren't burning off thousands of calories.
I'd be happy to give you an example of my day
Breakfast: nine spotty ripe bananas, 1/4 cup of coconut palm sugar, 1L of water (blended into a smoothie) 1,084 calories
Lunch: eight mangos 1,076 calories
Dinner: 22 baby potatoes (salt free, oil free), 500g of sweet potato (salt free, oil free), Large salad with one head of red leaf lettuce, two cups of diced tomatoes, one cucumber, one zucchini, one cup of diced carrots, one red pepper, one green pepper, 30g hass avocado with no dressing. 1,099 calories
Total: 3,259 calories
I did 30 minutes of biking (mod. effort) and 30 minutes of yoga
That usually my workout for the day, yoga, biking, walking, maybe a workout dvd. nothing serious.
I am not only interested in weight loss and the benefits of this lifestyle are far beyond that. As I stated above in a previous comment, I no longer suffer from IBS, ovarian cysts, tinnitus, headaches, fatigue. I have energy and I feel vibrant and amazing.
I call BS on this!
I find it hard to believe!
And since this is the interwebs you can't prove it's true and I can't disprove it, but i still call BS!0
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