Lose fat first then build muscle?

annabeladcock

Let me start by saying that I don't mean to do PURE cardio with no weight training because I know that when losing weight you will lose muscle mass easily, but it is maintainable through some weight training. I am 18, 133/135lbs and I am looking to lose body fat but also build up some muscle (a bit more than just "toning"). I understand that fat loss requires a calorie deficit and muscle gain requires a calorie surplus, but I just don't know how to go about it. Should I lose fat first by eating at a deficit, and then slowly transition to eating more and doing more strength training? I hate eating at a deficit and I want to get started with the "bulk" process. If I do gain muscle will I lose fat? This is what confuses me... So, if I gain muscle, will I still have the same amount of fat as I do now but more muscle as well? Or will I lose the fat? Don't know what to do I'm trying to make myself a plan for summer but I'm a bit lost... Help please?

galprincess

I just asked something similar so will be interested to see what replies you get

DanaDark

Figure out what body fat percentage you want as your lower and as your higher ends.

From there, lift steadily while in a calorie deficit until you reach the lower percentage you want. It won't look as good as you'd like obviously.

Now that you've gotten there, switch to a calorie surplus and start increasing the amount of weight you lift. Keep monitoring your body fat percentage. Once you get to you high end, switch back to the calorie deficit and keep lifting.

Keep doing that over and over again until you are happy with where you're at.

vismal

How tall are you, and do you have any pictures that show your figure? Depending on those factors, it might be wise to start your muscle building phase now. It really just depends how much overall fat you currently carry and how lean you really want to be. The idea of building muscle is that you eat in a small enough surplus to put on weight slowly. This keeps fat gains minimal. I say minimal because some fat is always gained when in a surplus. It's the price you pay for muscle. If you do it right though, it won't be much and you'll have little trouble losing it afterwards.

FoxyLifter

"Lose fat first then build muscle?"

Quick answer: I wouldn't recommend that approach because muscle is hard to build, especially for women.

Long answer: Retain what muscle you do have by lifting weights and eating enough protein (0.8-1.0g of protein per pound of lean body mass aka LBM. Total weight *(1-bf%) = LBM).

Judging by some of the info you gave, you could either try getting into a bulk/cut cycle OR eat at maintenance to try to do a slow recomp, depending on your goals. My personal opinion is that I would start a small bulk coupled with a lifting program. Try that for a couple of months and see where it takes you. I suggest a couple of months because it may be hard to see results in a few weeks. You will most likely retain water if you're challenging muscles you don't normally challenge. Find a program that starts light and gets a little heavier with each workout. I'm currently using StrongLifts 5x5, but there is also Starting Strength and New Rules of Lifting For Women that people around here seem to recommend quite frequently. If you're emotionally attached to the number on a scale and are in no hurry to eventually get the body you desire, then I would suggest a recomp (eating as close to maintenance as possible while still lifting progressively heavy).

CardiC333

Yess!! You WILL burn fat too by lifting.
But if your trying to change your physique through weight lifting than you'll need to actually do less cardio,
more lifting and yes, eat some more. But I say NO, start now!! I started lifting when I was still fat even though people told me not too and it was the best thing that I ever did. You should make extra cardio days too.
I wanted to make sure that I was at least ready underneath for when I shed the extra pounds.
I lost weight before and had noo butt or legs and skinny-fat arms and a jelly belly.
And now I have a whole new body. I'm telling you. Its exciting and I can't wait to lose like 15.
Everything is toned up as I lose weight and tighter than the last time I lost weight.
Your physique is only 10% genetics. You CAN and WILL have the body of your dreams if you give it your all.
But I must admit that the diet was key..
I was fine eating at 35% Carbs, 35% PROTEIN and 30% Fat. But its really different for everyone.
Lots of peoples diets are even more strict. But I just try to keep the protein high, Carbs lower than 130 just to lose fat and everything else reasonable... THAN a cheat day once a week around 2000-2500 cals so I don't gain..

Anyway, good luck with everything! This is only what I know and what has worked for me.
You WILL get that body girl. Make every minor set back a major come back!

annabeladcock

I'm 5"2, and I will post some pictures to my profile for you all. What is the best way to work out my body fat %? I don't have calipers (is it worth investing in some?) and I'm not sure if my gym do that sort of thing...? I can't afford to put on any more fat, I know that much!! I had my BF% done before using calipers by a trainer who said it was 19/20%, which can't be right... Online calculators work it out to be more like 25%... I would like an accurate(ish) way of measuring it that I can do often to track my progress... I am worried about gaining muscle because I don't want to also gain fat, I want to lose it! :laugh:

goldthistime

IMO, you should start lifting at the same time that you are cutting your calories to try to ensure you are losing fat, but as little muscle as possible.

BUT, realize that this may hinder your progress on the scales in the beginning. If there is a possibility that this may demoralize you and you give up on your diet, then hold off on strength training. I remember my first week of Weight Watchers years ago. I ate healthy foods, well within my point allotment, and exercised my brains out. I was crestfallen when I weighed in and discovered I'd only lost half a pound. Contrast this to a week 1 (there have been many of these in my lifetime unfortunately) where I dieted and did NOT increase exercise, and I lost 6lbs. Don't let the scale readings fool you though. I was definitely more successful in every measurement but the scales in my first example. Including what happened longterm. After my .5lb loss, I lost 2lbs per week like clockwork. After my 6lb lost, I lost a little the second week and then "plateaued", which also took its psychological toll. I look at it as "pulling ahead" my weight loss.

GreenIceFloes

Lose all excess/unwanted fat while maintaining muscle. Then bulk.

vismal

I'm 5"2, and I will post some pictures to my profile for you all. What is the best way to work out my body fat %? I don't have calipers (is it worth investing in some?) and I'm not sure if my gym do that sort of thing...? I can't afford to put on any more fat, I know that much!! I had my BF% done before using calipers by a trainer who said it was 19/20%, which can't be right... Online calculators work it out to be more like 25%... I would like an accurate(ish) way of measuring it that I can do often to track my progress... I am worried about gaining muscle because I don't want to also gain fat, I want to lose it! :laugh:

Looking at your pictures I would suggest a small calorie surplus and some heavy weight training. You are relatively lean already. Don't worry about the fat gain, if weight gain is slow, fat gain will be minimal. The first week or 2 you enter into a surplus you might gain a few lbs but this is water weight. After the initial 2 weeks, seek to gain around 1 lb a month, 2 max if you really want to keep fat gains small. I would suggest a beginners 5x5 lifting routine. My favorite is the ice cream fitness 5x5 but there are several out there. I would do this for no less then 6 months. A year would be better if you can do it. Muscle growth is slow and difficult. You have to really invest time into it. After you finish your muscle building phase you follow it with a caloric deficit to lose any added fat. You still lift during this phase so as not to lose the muscle you busted your *kitten* building.

Topsking2010

Bump

earthboundmisfit

At one time I was lifting weights for 45 minutes 3-4 times a week and it was hard work but I got awesome results. My clothes started fitting looser and I lost weight without changing my calorie count. You can get results fast if you put in that kind of effort. And of course having increased muscle mass speeds up your metabolism. I was not measuring my body fat percentage, just looked and felt a lot better. That was my experience.

earthboundmisfit

What is a 5x5 lifting routine?

goldthistime

I'm 5"2, and I will post some pictures to my profile for you all. What is the best way to work out my body fat %? I don't have calipers (is it worth investing in some?) and I'm not sure if my gym do that sort of thing...? I can't afford to put on any more fat, I know that much!! I had my BF% done before using calipers by a trainer who said it was 19/20%, which can't be right... Online calculators work it out to be more like 25%... I would like an accurate(ish) way of measuring it that I can do often to track my progress... I am worried about gaining muscle because I don't want to also gain fat, I want to lose it! :laugh:

There was a thread the other day saying BF% was the WORST way to measure progress. What the poster really meant was that it was practically impossible to measure precisely (without great expense that is). Your mirror and how your clothes fit are the best. The problem is that we don't get the incremental progress rewards that we crave. One of the great things about MFP is how you are "rewarded" for the process each day (diary and exercise comments), not just the weight loss.

Springfield1970

Hi

I think you've a nice body, but my opinion is a cut first, then a bulk, then another cut! All the while heavy lifting to either retain muscle on the cuts or build it on the bulk.

That will take you a better part of a year, but oh boy it will be worth it.

I'm 5'7", was nearer 30% body fat at 135 ish, cut down to 123lb 16-17% body fat! hated my scrawniness, bulked up to 131lb, loved my body then, been cutting back since feb extremely slowly, now a heavenly 128lb. In the bikini pic I'm at the peak of my bulk, but inches smaller than before. I had that typically wobbly english pear shape in my 20s and 30s. Now I'm 36-24-36. Like when I was 17 before the binge starve cycles got me.

I disagree that you need to bulk first. I think you'll be unhappy doing it. Careful cutting though, you don't want to lose LBM.

goldthistime

What is a 5x5 lifting routine?

http://stronglifts.com/5x5/

Five sets of five squats, then two more lifts (two of overhead, deadlift, bench, barbell row). Increasing weight each week.

vismal

Hi

I think you've a nice body, but my opinion is a cut first, then a bulk, then another cut! All the while heavy lifting to either retain muscle on the cuts or build it on the bulk.

That will take you a better part of a year, but oh boy it will be worth it.

I'm 5'7", was nearer 30% body fat at 135 ish, cut down to 123lb 16-17% body fat! hated my scrawniness, bulked up to 131lb, loved my body then, been cutting back since feb extremely slowly, now a heavenly 128lb. In the bikini pic I'm at the peak of my bulk, but inches smaller than before. I had that typically wobbly english pear shape. Now I'm 36-24-36.

I disagree that you need to bulk first. I think you'll be unhappy doing it. Careful cutting though, you don't want to lose LBM.

I see where you are coming from but she has very little fat left to cut, and hardly any lean mass underneath it. 9 times out of 10 I agree cutting first is the best move but I feel like she is the exception to the rule.

vismal

What is a 5x5 lifting routine?

http://stronglifts.com/5x5/

Five sets of five squats, then two more lifts (two of overhead, deadlift, bench, barbell row). Increasing weight each week.

Strong lifts is a great 5x5 but I hate how it has zero isolation work. I feel like people benefit from just a little isolation work which is why I recommend ICF 5x5 but both will make you great gains

annabeladcock

Great comments everyone! Keep them coming? :')

Sreneesa

bump

geebusuk

Afraid that increased muscle mass barely speeds up your metabolism - about 6 calories per lb of muscle maximum.
Fat is around 2 calories.
So if our OP lost 10 lb and put on 20lb of muscle (which is a very significant amount of muscle for her, I would say)... she would be have a whole 100 calories extra to eat a day - one medium banana.

However, I lift weights 3.5x a week doing a modified starting strength. I do a lean-gains style routine where I eat 1000 calories more on lifting days than rest days. I've had to up my calories to an average of 3500 a day from 3250 as I was still maintaining (actually a slight deficit it seems) on 3250.

Whatever, I would definitely start lifting now, for the OP.
I would be tempted to start with a slow bulk and see how that goes - maybe 125 calories over maintenance for a .25lb a week gain - you may actually find you do lose some fat too.
I'd suggest working out deficit by using an averaged record of your weight - an app like 'libra' will do it all for you.

I'd also suggest having a look at 'lean gains' - it DOES seem to work for me, but may not work so well for others.

annabeladcock

Okay - so... I already do some strength training - should I be doing more? And heavier sets? And how much of it and how much cardio should I do? And then about calories, there is some debate going on here haha, what do people think?

ETA - My typical workout starts with a 20 minute cardio session, usually a 20 minute run, then the rest of the 40 minutes is a mix of strength training and circuit training

Cranquistador

Okay - so... I already do some strength training - should I be doing more? And heavier sets? And how much of it and how much cardio should I do? And then about calories, there is some debate going on here haha, what do people think?

ETA - My typical workout starts with a 20 minute cardio session, usually a 20 minute run, then the rest of the 40 minutes is a mix of strength training and circuit training

I would lift 3 days a week and if you like do cardio on the other days.
and lift progressively heavier for you.
starting strength and stronglifts start with a 45 pound bar and work up from there.
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/The_Starting_Strength_Novice/Beginner_Programs

annabeladcock

How many calories should I be eating? I was in the gym the other day with my bestie who I think has the perfect body to start with some heavy lifting... Compared to her I still had a reasonable amount of fat that I feel I should get rid of... Advice?

vismal

Okay - so... I already do some strength training - should I be doing more? And heavier sets? And how much of it and how much cardio should I do? And then about calories, there is some debate going on here haha, what do people think?

ETA - My typical workout starts with a 20 minute cardio session, usually a 20 minute run, then the rest of the 40 minutes is a mix of strength training and circuit training

This depends on if you decide to start with fat loss or muscle building as a goal. Calories will either need to be set to put you in a moderate deficit or a slight surplus depending on your choice. Whichever you choose, you should begin a 3x a week total body barbell program. Several have been suggested, all will work.

TiberiusClaudis

"Lose fat first then build muscle?"

Quick answer: I wouldn't recommend that approach because muscle is hard to build, especially for women.

This ^^^^. Trust me, fat is a LOT easier to lose than muscle is to gain. You are in a sweet spot and technically could do both, but muscle gains come much quicker at your age, so maximize this time to gain muscle. And no...you won't look like a guy if you do, you will look super fit...good luck!

annabeladcock

This depends on if you decide to start with fat loss or muscle building as a goal. Calories will either need to be set to put you in a moderate deficit or a slight surplus depending on your choice. Whichever you choose, you should begin a 3x a week total body barbell program. Several have been suggested, all will work.

Thankyou so much think I will start off with a slight deficit and see how that goes, then slowly transition to a surplus

vismal

This depends on if you decide to start with fat loss or muscle building as a goal. Calories will either need to be set to put you in a moderate deficit or a slight surplus depending on your choice. Whichever you choose, you should begin a 3x a week total body barbell program. Several have been suggested, all will work.

Thankyou so much think I will start off with a slight deficit and see how that goes, then slowly transition to a surplus

The only thing I would caution is not to be wishy washy. If you pick fat loss first, that's fine. Just commit to it, and do it for long enough to make a meaningful difference. Don't do it for a few weeks then decide you'd rather build muscle. Switching back and forth usually leads to just spinning your wheels. Good luck with everything!

Springfield1970

This depends on if you decide to start with fat loss or muscle building as a goal. Calories will either need to be set to put you in a moderate deficit or a slight surplus depending on your choice. Whichever you choose, you should begin a 3x a week total body barbell program. Several have been suggested, all will work.

Thankyou so much think I will start off with a slight deficit and see how that goes, then slowly transition to a surplus

I think at 5'2" and 130-135lb that's a good idea, but get organised. do you have a goal low weight in mind?

It really would be a good idea to get all your measurements, and your build.

First thing is to find your TDEE, and exercise burns. These are vital for successful cutting and bulking. You need to not waver more than 20% under your tdee (eat exercise calories, and don't trust the numbers here), and not eat more than 1700 cals PER WEEK over when you bulk. But you've got a while to work it out.

It took months for me to find my tdee (sedentary) rate was 1750. That's at my current weight. It will decrease and increase depending how much I weigh.

Scooby's calculator set between sedentary and lightly active worked for me, coz even when I'm not exercise I'm always moving.

I know all my calorie burns and make sure I not only eat them, I load them up before I exercise, high carb now that tri training is in full swing.

geebusuk

While setting a figure on the scales doesn't always make sense, you could try aiming for your 10lb loss with a .5lb/week rate - so it will take 20 weeks, which is a fair bit of time.

At that 'pace' and with 'newbie gains', hopefully you will also see strength improvements.

I would drop calories from whatever you are 'maintaining' on by 250 a day and see how that goes - measure with libra or similar app/spreadsheet and move your deficit around based on that.

Make sure you keep your protein levels up.

As above - starting strength or strong lifts are a good start - heavy (for you) barbell work, but making sure you start light - you may want to start lighter than an Olympic bar for some exercises as the 20kg/45lb can be quite a lot (a female friend could just do the bar for her bench press, but I had her warming up on a smaller bar or my multigym.)

annabeladcock

I think at 5'2" and 130-135lb that's a good idea, but get organised. do you have a goal low weight in mind?

It really would be a good idea to get all your measurements, and your build.

First thing is to find your TDEE, and exercise burns. These are vital for successful cutting and bulking. You need to not waver more than 20% under your tdee (eat exercise calories, and don't trust the numbers here), and not eat more than 1700 cals PER WEEK over when you bulk. But you've got a while to work it out.

It took months for me to find my tdee (sedentary) rate was 1750. That's at my current weight. It will decrease and increase depending how much I weigh.

Scooby's calculator set between sedentary and lightly active worked for me, coz even when I'm not exercise I'm always moving.

I know all my calorie burns and make sure I not only eat them, I load them up before I exercise, high carb now that tri training is in full swing.

My initial goal weight is 126lb, and I will see how I feel then my lowest was 129lbs and I felt that I was near what I wanted to be at. There isn't much difference in those numbers but on my every pound seems to show! If 126lbs isn't low enough then I will try for 120.

I don't know about build... I'm short, and not a particularly skinny person... We're an outdoorsey family and I used to horse ride which gave me a bit of bulk, but I am definitely not one of those "big boned" type people, so I would say by build was medium

I haven't quite worked out my TDEE yet, it's somewhere around 1600-1900cals... I have a HRM and have been tracking my workouts, and have found that on average I burn around 500cals an hour