Getting to the end of my rope - really need support system

va_01

I agree that you may need to eat more (and not pay attention to immediate sometimes drastic leaps in scale weight)-- it is likely water retention and extra food in your system. So after that initial weight gain due to more food/water retention, keep track of your weight for 2-3 weeks (if you have not gained weight, then up your calories)

However, if you are NOT A NEWBIE, 4 pounds a month gain will be mostly fat. Only newbies can gain 2 ish pounds of MUSCLE a month (3 if you are lucky). So your surplus as a non-newbie does not need to be as high

But, if have not made those newbie gains (even if you have been lifting for years), you may gain 2-3 pounds of muscle a month. So a gain of 2-4 pounds of scale weight a month is ideal.

That isn't how the body works. You don't gain muscle until you reach a saturation point, then extra cals go to fat. You gain both, at about the same ratio whether a small or moderate surplus, up until a tipping point. +500 might be slightly past that tipping point for a 1st-2nd time bulker, but it is close. Below that tipping point you are going slower, and little else.

So you would recommend me trying 4k calories since I am not seeing any weight gain from the 3,700? And even then, the muscle/fat gain would be about 50/50?

43mmmgoody21

Either way, whether you decide to gain 4 pounds a month (or 2 or 3), you will gain some fat on a bulk. But losing fat is easy compared to building muscle. Gaining weight sensibly, will keep you moderately lean (not 6 pack lean).

What you don't want is to gain 10-20+ pounds a month under the delusion that you are packing on much more muscle.

When i was a newbie i gained about 5 pounds a month (of course not all of it was muscle) but when i cut, the fat came off with relative ease. Now, as i am going into a bulk, i hope to gain about 2-3 pounds a month max (if i hit 4 pounds i won't cry knowing that it will be easy to take it off later).

va_01

OK - so rather than trying to switch my routine, etc, I should just up my calories?

Or, because I have been performing the same lifts for so long (although I have changed my volume/frequency) should i go in and change those too?

I just don't really know how much to change moving forward.

JoRocka

OK - so rather than trying to switch my routine, etc, I should just up my calories?

Or, because I have been performing the same lifts for so long (although I have changed my volume/frequency) should i go in and change those too?

I just don't really know how much to change moving forward.

You my friend, are way over thinking this.

Do you like the lifting program you are doing?

Then keep doing it.

just eat more.

Do you want to do something new?

Then try a new program- and eat more.

I did 2 programs on my bulk- actually 3 technically.
1.) 3 months I did my own program and I just changed reps so they were 6-8.
2.) Did 20 rep squat breathing program *you can google- it's 6 weeks long and is 3 lifts a week with only like 5 exercises- it sucks
3.) Sheiko- Comp prep program.

I just made sure I was eating enough.

waldo56

Higher leptin levels at lower body fat%, lolwut? That is not how leptin works, at all. Higher insulin sensitivity, yes. Leptin is the master controller of your anti-starvation system. Levels are lower when you are leaner and when you are in a calorie deficit.

Leangains has fallen way out of favor nowadays, people have caught on to the fact that progress is way, way slow, if it even works at all. For what, to prevent a couple pounds of fat gain that you could cut in a couple weeks?

************************

Anyway, I spend so much time here writing variations on the same few themes with bulking, I wrote one huge comprehensive guide to muscle building/bulking for beginners, hopefully some of y'all find it useful:
http://strengthunbound.com/bulking-complete-guide-for-beginners/

xcobos415

Oh please, it has not fallen out of favor. I actually love your blog but don't knock Martin. He's a king in the fitness world. And you'll be lucky if you ever grow and audience as wide and as vast. That being said, I wish you luck.

BTW, I've gained 14 lbs of muscle with a 2% decrease in bodyfat using a leangains approach. There are also a TON more examples of successful clients who've used this strategy on rippedbodyDOTjp

Shame on you for giving no credit to other bloggers in this space who've helped hundreds of clients gain muscle without putting on fat.

Fsunami

OK - so rather than trying to switch my routine, etc, I should just up my calories?

Or, because I have been performing the same lifts for so long (although I have changed my volume/frequency) should i go in and change those too?

I just don't really know how much to change moving forward.

You my friend, are way over thinking this.

Do you like the lifting program you are doing?

Then keep doing it.

just eat more.

Do you want to do something new?

Then try a new program- and eat more.

I did 2 programs on my bulk- actually 3 technically.
1.) 3 months I did my own program and I just changed reps so they were 6-8.
2.) Did 20 rep squat breathing program *you can google- it's 6 weeks long and is 3 lifts a week with only like 5 exercises- it sucks
3.) Sheiko- Comp prep program.

I just made sure I was eating enough.

THIS. From a former navel gazer. Overthinking breeds paralysis. Been there, bought the t-shirt. In your quest for perfection, it seems all you are doing is making yourself unhappy because youre not following the "perfect path"

Who is, bro? We're all works in progress.

Good luck

PaPa_BuLL

You stated you don't want to follow a training regimen that some trainer cooks up, but that is what a trainer is for. A real trainer will put you through a performance test to establish a baseline and determine your strengths and weaknesses. From there, a program can be developed to help you establish goals and actually meet them. If after 2 years you are not seeing any progress and are hitting plateaus then you need to talk to someone who knows what they are doing and can help you regulate yourself. And your diet is going to be the single biggest factor in weight loss or weight gain. If you are eating 3700 calories at your height/weight, then you need to learn about nutrient timing and partitioning. Don't give up, switch it up, because homeostasis will prevail if you don't.

waldo56

Oh please, it has not fallen out of favor. I actually love your blog but don't knock Martin. He's a king in the fitness world. And you'll be lucky if you ever grow and audience as wide and as vast. That being said, I wish you luck.

BTW, I've gained 14 lbs of muscle with a 2% decrease in bodyfat using a leangains approach. There are also a TON more examples of successful clients who've used this strategy on rippedbodyDOTjp

Shame on you for giving no credit to other bloggers in this space who've helped hundreds of clients gain muscle without putting on fat.

His approach is viable for someone nearly maxed out muscle-wise that wants to stay uber lean (like Martin...), but for a beginner the utility is questionable at best.

Beginners-intermediates are much better off using a moderate traditional approach. I've gained 30 lbs of muscle and lost 10% body fat using a moderate traditional approach. Fat gain is a whole lot of nothing.

And yes, Leangains has fallen off sharply.
http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=leangains

Search traffic is down by nearly half in the last year. And that's not even the worst of it:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/leangains.com

Total site traffic is way down as the % of traffic from search up up strongly, which means his repeat customers are way down.

I give credit where credit is due, but I have never been and never will be a fan of lean bulking schemes.

xcobos415

Traffic is down because he hasn't been updating frequently. That's because he's too busy coaching. Twist the stats any way you want, he's a force to be reckoned with and you're an up and comer. Don't knock the people who paved the way to your own success. You sound like a jerk try hard know it all.

There are many paths to the same end goal. Let folks choose what works best for them rather than ramming your own ideology down their throats.

And I'd hardly call your body ideal. Just sayin'. You look much heavier (er, fatter) on your site. Clearly your pic here is very outdated.

DopeItUp

Traffic is down because he hasn't been updating frequently. That's because he's too busy coaching. Twist the stats any way you want, he's a force to be reckoned with and you're an up and comer. Don't knock the people who paved the way to your own success. You sound like a jerk try hard know it all.

There are many paths to the same end goal. Let folks choose what works best for them rather than ramming your own ideology down their throats.

And I'd hardly call your body ideal. Just sayin'. You look much heavier (er, fatter) on your site. Clearly your pic here is very outdated.

Says the guy whose first posts are trying to sell a training program. And then is being insulting to established members. Enjoy your ban.

Springfield1970

Traffic is down because he hasn't been updating frequently. That's because he's too busy coaching. Twist the stats any way you want, he's a force to be reckoned with and you're an up and comer. Don't knock the people who paved the way to your own success. You sound like a jerk try hard know it all.

There are many paths to the same end goal. Let folks choose what works best for them rather than ramming your own ideology down their throats.

And I'd hardly call your body ideal. Just sayin'. You look much heavier (er, fatter) on your site. Clearly your pic here is very outdated.

I've studied Martins methods in depth, and followed him through his tumultuous and often confusing posts and articles. I'd much rather put my faith in someone level headed like Waldo. He has done incredible things with his body, and he's not an extremist like Martin, who I just plain gave up on after getting fed up with his erratic starve binge behaviour and bizarre personal rants.

You're making a bit of a fool of yourself by the way. Just sayin'

cwoyto123

Eat big to get big brah.

waldo56

Traffic is down because he hasn't been updating frequently. That's because he's too busy coaching. Twist the stats any way you want, he's a force to be reckoned with and you're an up and comer. Don't knock the people who paved the way to your own success. You sound like a jerk try hard know it all.

There are many paths to the same end goal. Let folks choose what works best for them rather than ramming your own ideology down their throats.

And I'd hardly call your body ideal. Just sayin'. You look much heavier (er, fatter) on your site. Clearly your pic here is very outdated.

Eh, I'll believe it when I see it with a Leangains return. Too many people put in too much work for too little gain.

Martin hardly paved the way for my "success". Anyway, I have no interest in doing what he did (and what you want to do), making a living from health/fitness. I'm a professional engineer.

It isn't really ideology when your method is the good old fashioned basic most simple approach that has been proven to work for eons.

My waist measures almost exactly the same right now as in my avi pic (which you are correct, is quite old). I know how to take a good flattering photo, my avi is very much a case of that (plus I am MUCH tanner in my avi and fairly dehydrated, which makes a big difference). But yes, I am quite a bit larger today than my avi photo, 17 lbs to be exact. After this cut I'm about to start in a couple days, I'll probably take a new one because that one is so old; the pitiful little chest I have in it.

va_01

I'm going against all my instincts to google Lean Gains, partitioning, timing effects, and all!

I want to keep this simple. If I had the confidence to try something off the cuff who knows I might, but I want to prove to myself I can do something I see almost everyone else do: gain muscle. I think/work way too hard to yield no results

So consensus is, I could switch to ICF 3x5 routine (very similar to what I do now) , and bump up calories until I gain .5 lb / week. Does that sound fair/reasonable? Again, I'm tired of overcomplicating everything!

DopeItUp

I'm going against all my instincts to google Lean Gains, partitioning, timing effects, and all!

I want to keep this simple. If I had the confidence to try something off the cuff who knows I might, but I want to prove to myself I can do something I see almost everyone else do: gain muscle. I think/work way too hard to yield no results

So consensus is, I could switch to ICF 3x5 routine (very similar to what I do now) , and bump up calories until I gain .5 lb / week. Does that sound fair/reasonable? Again, I'm tired of overcomplicating everything!

It's a start, what's the worst that could happen? You will be fine.

waldo56

0.5 lb/wk is on the low end for a male, especially a beginner male. You could go up to 1 lb/wk without issue.

pjarellano

Does your insurance cover therapy? I think you would get some answers that would help you. I think I can understand where you are. I can be pretty driven myself. After making the commitment to seek answers in therapy. I have been able to be a lot less determined to fix it now! Some things need time and energy. You can actually convince yourself into your body not loosing weight. Just like some people can convince themselves they are sick. This journey takes every part of you mind/body and sole. Without one of them success is much more difficult. Let someone else hold your rope and help you wind it back up

va_01

Does your insurance cover therapy? I think you would get some answers that would help you. I think I can understand where you are. I can be pretty driven myself. After making the commitment to seek answers in therapy. I have been able to be a lot less determined to fix it now! Some things need time and energy. You can actually convince yourself into your body not loosing weight. Just like some people can convince themselves they are sick. This journey takes every part of you mind/body and sole. Without one of them success is much more difficult. Let someone else hold your rope and help you wind it back up

Yep I go to therapy every week - mostly due to issues revolving around anxiety/OCD. We touch on this subject time to time, but it's a really good example of how my life runs :-/

JoRocka

So consensus is, I could switch to ICF 3x5 routine (very similar to what I do now) , and bump up calories until I gain .5 lb / week. Does that sound fair/reasonable? Again, I'm tired of overcomplicating everything!

the consensus is pick a program and lift.

And eat.

Do you dislike the program you are lifting now??

or do you just want to try something new?
Sure some programs are geared to making big gains- but almost any progressive lifting program run consistently with a food surplus will work.

Really it comes down to your diet. You MUST eat more to support it.