Getting to the end of my rope - really need support system

va_01

So consensus is, I could switch to ICF 3x5 routine (very similar to what I do now) , and bump up calories until I gain .5 lb / week. Does that sound fair/reasonable? Again, I'm tired of overcomplicating everything!

the consensus is pick a program and lift.

And eat.

Do you dislike the program you are lifting now??

or do you just want to try something new?
Sure some programs are geared to making big gains- but almost any progressive lifting program run consistently with a food surplus will work.

Really it comes down to your diet. You MUST eat more to support it.

I don't particularly dislike the program I'm on, but I wonder if I should change certain lifts to "shock" my muscles. At least that's what I've heard

JoRocka

meh.

it's more for your mental state of being.,

If the program seems to be working- do it.

DopeItUp

So consensus is, I could switch to ICF 3x5 routine (very similar to what I do now) , and bump up calories until I gain .5 lb / week. Does that sound fair/reasonable? Again, I'm tired of overcomplicating everything!

the consensus is pick a program and lift.

And eat.

Do you dislike the program you are lifting now??

or do you just want to try something new?
Sure some programs are geared to making big gains- but almost any progressive lifting program run consistently with a food surplus will work.

Really it comes down to your diet. You MUST eat more to support it.

I don't particularly dislike the program I'm on, but I wonder if I should change certain lifts to "shock" my muscles. At least that's what I've heard

That's broscience.

43mmmgoody21

His approach is viable for someone nearly maxed out muscle-wise that wants to stay uber lean (like Martin...), but for a beginner the utility is questionable at best.

Beginners-intermediates are much better off using a moderate traditional approach. I've gained 30 lbs of muscle and lost 10% body fat using a moderate traditional approach. Fat gain is a whole lot of nothing.

I give credit where credit is due, but I have never been and never will be a fan of lean bulking schemes.

Hey Waldo,

Recomping for a newbie is a slow train to nowhere. But...
What is your take on Intermittent Fasting on a bulk (as long as you are in a surplus everyday-- i.e. NOT like LeanGains-- where one day is surplus, another slight deficit)? I like big 2-3 meals (eating large meals is never a problem for me).

DopeItUp

His approach is viable for someone nearly maxed out muscle-wise that wants to stay uber lean (like Martin...), but for a beginner the utility is questionable at best.

Beginners-intermediates are much better off using a moderate traditional approach. I've gained 30 lbs of muscle and lost 10% body fat using a moderate traditional approach. Fat gain is a whole lot of nothing.

I give credit where credit is due, but I have never been and never will be a fan of lean bulking schemes.

Hey Waldo,

Recomping for a newbie is a slow train to nowhere. But...
What is your take on Intermittent Fasting on a bulk (as long as you are in a surplus everyday-- i.e. NOT like LeanGains-- where one day is surplus, another slight deficit)? I like big 2-3 meals (eating large meals is never a problem for me).

You didn't ask me but... I'm gonna answer anyway. There's nothing wrong with IF but the problem I ran into is bulking with IF is crazypants. Why? Because trying to fit in 4000 calories in just 8 hours isn't nearly as fun as it sounds. I really had to spread it out on a bulk or I wanted to die all the time. On a cut...sure.

JoRocka

^^^ similar. One of the reasons BBer's eat every 2-3 hours- has a lot to do with quantity of food- hard to eat all that food in a short period of time.

Answer for Waldo- and with a less sciency answer- probably going to say you want to even the surplus out as much as possible.

Move level surplus with less spikes = better conditions for bulking.

But he can fill that in because I only learned it from him.

waldo56

Protein distribution matters for muscle growth:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/jphysiol.2012.244897/full

If you look at the work of Dr. Phillips recently, whose work seems to be primarily on muscle building, its is becoming increasingly clear that there is value to a wide distribution of protein throughout the day.

In other words, eat something protein containing soon after you wake up, avoid long food-less stretches, and don't go to bed hungry, for peak efficiency when bulking.

The first figure in this review (whole thing is really good and worth a read) illustrates this point:
http://jap.physiology.org/content/106/5/1692

mommakec

Hey Waldo as a former fat person I can only offer my opinion. You didn't state why you wish to gain, and that is very important. If it's for a sport muscle weighs more than fat as you know and can help a lot in gaining a very small amt., however, if your gaining just for size I will offer similar advice that is given to those trying to lose only in reverse. First get your Thyroid checked by a doctor yours could be over active versus the opposite for those of size. It's best to rule out medical reasons for weight issues first. Second find some one who is large and observe their food habits and lifestyle. Some tips to gaining. Eat a bulk of your daily calories prior to going to bed. Your body Will have an easier time converting these calories and storing them in your fat cells. Eat small amounts of high calorie foods prior to a sedentary activity. This follows the same reasoning. Eat while in front of the TV. Your mind will not be engaged and as a result you will find it much easier to eat the high caloric amounts you need to gain, and then when you do sit down to eat. Eat as fast as you can starting with your carbs. and fats first. It takes a minimum of twenty minutes for your brain to get the message that your are eating and satisfied. Remember to give yourself some time to grow your stomach so don't get discouraged. I hope these tips help.

mommakec

Waldo, one of my close friends struggled with this same issue so just know I do understand the frustration of not being able to change your weight. We were fascinated by the similarities of our issues, and each mimiced the other and some things helped
both of us. I have lost touch with that friend through the years due to moves and such, however, I still remember that we both struggled with the same issue of weight from opposite ends of the scales. Good Luck!

43mmmgoody21

You didn't ask me but... I'm gonna answer anyway. There's nothing wrong with IF but the problem I ran into is bulking with IF is crazypants. Why? Because trying to fit in 4000 calories in just 8 hours isn't nearly as fun as it sounds. I really had to spread it out on a bulk or I wanted to die all the time. On a cut...sure.

Thanks for you take on IF (i certainly love it on a cut but have never bulked on it yet).

I must be a pig because i can easily eat large amounts of food (day in day out). On my last cut I had a 4 hour eating window (about 2500 cals/day) i only ate two meals, pretty much equally divided. I was never hungry but could easily have eaten more.

I am the ultimate bottomless pit and look forward to my bulk (starting in a few weeks while i hold my calories where i am). If becoming stuffed ever becomes a problem I will simply extend the eating window. However, i don't think i will ever go back to eating breakfast.

43mmmgoody21

Protein distribution matters for muscle growth:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/jphysiol.2012.244897/full

If you look at the work of Dr. Phillips recently, whose work seems to be primarily on muscle building, its is becoming increasingly clear that there is value to a wide distribution of protein throughout the day.

In other words, eat something protein containing soon after you wake up, avoid long food-less stretches, and don't go to bed hungry, for peak efficiency when bulking.

The first figure in this review (whole thing is really good and worth a read) illustrates this point:
http://jap.physiology.org/content/106/5/1692

Thanks, i'll take a look.

jimlambrt2

There's some valuable info in this thread from folks like Waldo. I'm 49yrs old. I added 12# of lean mass from July to Jan. There is no secret sauce... just eat all the food and lift heavy weights. IMO, the best advice in this thread: spread out your nutrition and don't go to bed hungry. My only additional advice: squat heavy at least 3 times a wk and keep adding weight, even if you on your bad days. It sucks. it's hard. there will be times when you can't bend over to tie your shoes. Just keep doing it. Oh, and be sure to take a few days off every few months. Remember: eat all the food all the time. Think of ti this way: I'm a professional eater, who occasionally lifts weights.

JoRocka

You didn't ask me but... I'm gonna answer anyway. There's nothing wrong with IF but the problem I ran into is bulking with IF is crazypants. Why? Because trying to fit in 4000 calories in just 8 hours isn't nearly as fun as it sounds. I really had to spread it out on a bulk or I wanted to die all the time. On a cut...sure.

Thanks for you take on IF (i certainly love it on a cut but have never bulked on it yet).

I must be a pig because i can easily eat large amounts of food (day in day out). On my last cut I had a 4 hour eating window (about 2500 cals/day) i only ate two meals, pretty much equally divided. I was never hungry but could easily have eaten more.

I am the ultimate bottomless pit and look forward to my bulk (starting in a few weeks while i hold my calories where i am). If becoming stuffed ever becomes a problem I will simply extend the eating window. However, i don't think i will ever go back to eating breakfast.

have you ever done it for months on end?
Over eating for months on end is harder than just stuffing yourself for a few days at a time.

va_01

There's some valuable info in this thread from folks like Waldo. I'm 49yrs old. I added 12# of lean mass from July to Jan. There is no secret sauce... just eat all the food and lift heavy weights. IMO, the best advice in this thread: spread out your nutrition and don't go to bed hungry. My only additional advice: squat heavy at least 3 times a wk and keep adding weight, even if you on your bad days. It sucks. it's hard. there will be times when you can't bend over to tie your shoes. Just keep doing it. Oh, and be sure to take a few days off every few months. Remember: eat all the food all the time. Think of ti this way: I'm a professional eater, who occasionally lifts weights.

See this surprises me (along with ICF) because I'm surprised you're allowed to squat "heavy" 3x week! even on DL days.

43mmmgoody21

You didn't ask me but... I'm gonna answer anyway. There's nothing wrong with IF but the problem I ran into is bulking with IF is crazypants. Why? Because trying to fit in 4000 calories in just 8 hours isn't nearly as fun as it sounds. I really had to spread it out on a bulk or I wanted to die all the time. On a cut...sure.

Thanks for you take on IF (i certainly love it on a cut but have never bulked on it yet).

I must be a pig because i can easily eat large amounts of food (day in day out). On my last cut I had a 4 hour eating window (about 2500 cals/day) i only ate two meals, pretty much equally divided. I was never hungry but could easily have eaten more.

I am the ultimate bottomless pit and look forward to my bulk (starting in a few weeks while i hold my calories where i am). If becoming stuffed ever becomes a problem I will simply extend the eating window. However, i don't think i will ever go back to eating breakfast.

have you ever done it for months on end?
Over eating for months on end is harder than just stuffing yourself for a few days at a time.

During my last bulk (about 8 months)-- yup! Never had a problem hitting my macro's (when i got sick of eating, which was rare, i simply added ice-cream, milk, McDonald's, cookies, pizza, protein shake with oatmeal, peanut butter and fruit...). Granted i wasn't Intermittent Fasting during my bulk (I only learned about IF a few months ago).

jimlambrt2

I'm surprised you're allowed to squat "heavy" 3x week! even on DL days.

Allowed? Too funny.

I just finished a 12 wk Catalyst Olympic lifting cycle. The program was 5days a wk (M-T + Sat). 3 days a wk included heavy squats at the end of the workouts. At the end of 12 wks, I had added 30# to my snatch, 20# to my C&J and 10# to my squat. I added 3# of BW during the course of the cycle.

JoRocka

I'm surprised you're allowed to squat "heavy" 3x week! even on DL days.

Allowed? Too funny.

I just finished a 12 wk Catalyst Olympic lifting cycle. The program was 5days a wk (M-T + Sat). 3 days a wk included heavy squats at the end of the workouts. At the end of 12 wks, I had added 30# to my snatch, 20# to my C&J and 10# to my squat. I added 3# of BW during the course of the cycle.

yeah I'm not sure what allowed mes.

I squat 2 times a week- with two separate sessions of squat in each lift
M squat bench squat
F squat bench Front squat

going up and feeling solid.

va_01

"Allowed" in the sense that it's optimal.

I guess I still have a lot to learn. 2 years of broscience lessons

Krysta1t

Are you having regular BMs? Sometimes backed up waste is the real culprit of belly bulge. If so, supplementing with magnesium is good for that

perseverance14

You look great dude...chill.