WHAT CALORIE DEFICIT FOR UNHEALTHY BMI?

beep

I read the posts, but I'd like to see up front how much of a calorie deficit should one be going by with an unhealthy BMI say over 30? I tried the math, and know I have LOTS of body fat, so I know I can take a larger deficit. What is the lowest one should go with obese BMI?

beep

I read the posts, but I'd like to see up front how much of a calorie deficit should one be going by with an unhealthy BMI say over 30? I tried the math, and know I have LOTS of body fat, so I know I can take a larger deficit. What is the lowest one should go with obese BMI?

CrystalBella

I only do 1000.... plus I work out at least 4 times a week for at least 30mins...

where is banks when ya need him? lol

beep

I'm reading the posts, and it's confusing to me.

If one weighs, lets say 200 for a round number

Female
200 pounds
medium frame
5'5"

Chickiebabe151

I can't answer that but I know you never wanna be below 1200 kcals no matter how big or small you are.

lotusfromthemud

All the research I've read says that you should never go under 1200 (sort of a random number, but standard). Why not start with 500 per day of a deficit (what this website puts you at if you try for a pound a week) and see what your loss is there. Then you can always reduce by 100 calorie increments if you're not losing.

If you start with a larger deficit, it may be self-defeating. Everyone has a point where they're body is happy to lose weight, and where your body goes into "hoard every calorie mode" and you stop losing. (It's different for everyone.)

I don't know that there's a standardized number, but I would say going bigger than a 500 calorie deficit should be under your doctor's supervision.

mkeithley

Ok my friend, Check this out, these are bmi calculations for celebrities and sports people(The Rock OBESE?!?! I don't think so):

Barry Bonds: 6'2": 228 lbs: 29
David Boreanaz: 6'2": 218 lbs: 28
Tom Brady: 6'4": 225 lbs: 27
President Bush: 5'11": 191 lbs: 26
Nic Cage: 6'1": 210 lbs: 28
George Clooney: 5'11": 211 lbs: 29
Tom Cruise: 5'7": 170 lbs: 26
Matt Damon: 5'11": 187 lbs: 26
Johnny Depp: 5'7": 190 lbs: 27
David Duchovny: 6'0": 212 lbs: 29
Vin Diesel: 6'2": 200 lbs: 26
Cheryl Ford: 6'3": 215 lbs:27
Harrison Ford: 6'1": 218 lbs: 29
Brendan Fraser: 6'3": 234 lbs: 29
Richard Gere: 5'11": 187 lbs: 26
Ethan Hawke: 5'9": 172 lbs: 25
Hugh Jackman: 6'2": 210 lbs: 27
Lebron James: 6'8": 240 lbs: 26
Dale Jarrett: 6'2": 200 lbs: 26
Bobby Labonte: 5'9": 170 lbs: 25
Nick Lachey: 5'10": 180 lbs: 26
Karl Malone: 6'9": 259 lbs: 28
Dr. Phil McGraw: 6'4": 240 lbs: 29
Mark McGuire (playing weight): 6'5": 250 lbs: 30
Donovan McNabb: 6'3": 240 lbs: 30
Yao Ming: 7'6": 310 lbs: 27
Brad Pitt: 6'0": 203 lbs: 28
Keanu Reeves: 6'1": 223 lbs: 29
Cal Ripken: 6'4": 210 lbs: 27
Andy Rod****: 6'2": 197 lbs: 25
Will Smith: 6'2": 210 lbs: 27
Sammy Sosa: 6'0": 220 lbs: 30
Denzel Washington: 6'0": 199 lbs: 27
Bruce Willis: 6'0": 200 lbs: 29
Billy Zane: 6'2": 210 lbs: 27
OBESE:
Mel Gibson 5'9": 214 pounds: 32
Matt LeBlanc: 5'11": 218 lbs: 30
Steve McNair: 6'2": 235 lbs: 30
The Rock (Dwayne Johnson): 6'5": 275 lbs: 33
Arnold Schwarzenegger: 6'2": 257 lbs: 33
Sylvester Stallone: 5'9": 228 lbs: 34
Mike Tyson: 5'11 ½": fighting weight between 218-235: 30-32


The federal government defines "overweight" and "obese" using the body mass index (BMI), a simple calculation based only on height and weight. "Normal" weight is defined as a BMI between 18.5 and 24.9. "Overweight" is defined as a BMI between 25 and 29.9. "Obese" is a BMI of 30 or higher.

Are these classifications meaningful? According to the government standard, Tom Cruise, Sylvester Stallone, and Mel Gibson are technically obese. So are sluggers Sammy Sosa and Barry Bonds, boxer Mike Tyson, quarterback Donovan McNabb, and wrestling superstar The Rock. And if politics is your thing, it turns out that California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger—a bodybuilding legend—is obese, too.

It’s not just the official category of obesity that has been affected by numerical hocus-pocus. Thirty-five million Americans went to sleep one night in 1998 at a government-approved weight and woke up "overweight" the next morning, thanks to a change in the government’s definition. That group includes currently "overweight" celebrities like Will Smith and Pierce Brosnan, as well as NBA stars Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. It even includes George W. Bush, considered the most fit president in U.S. history. "Overweight" had previously been defined as a BMI of 27.8 for men and 27.3 for women; in 1998 it was lowered to a BMI of 25 for both genders.

The 1998 redefinition prompted a group of researchers to criticize the new threshold in The American Journal of Public Health. They wrote:

"Current interpretations of the revised guidelines stigmatize too many people as overweight, fail to account for sex, race/ethnicity, age, and other differences; and ignore the serious health risks associated with low weight and efforts to maintain an unrealistically lean body mass … This seeming rush to lower the standard for overweight to such a level that 55% of American adults find themselves being declared overweight or obese raises serious concerns."
A research letter published in JAMA (the journal of the American Medical Association) reported that 97 percent of players in the National Football League are technically overweight and more than 50 percent are obese. The NFL responded by calling the BMI "bogus," since it "doesn’t consider body muscle versus fat."

mkeithley

I read the posts, but I'd like to see up front how much of a calorie deficit should one be going by with an unhealthy BMI say over 30? I tried the math, and know I have LOTS of body fat, so I know I can take a larger deficit. What is the lowest one should go with obese BMI?

Now I posted it b/c really bmi is not a good indicator of anything. When I did mine my "range was within a 40 lb. difference. Even if someone has more to lose, a pound is a pound is a pound. To lose 1 lb a week you need to try and create a 500 calorie a day deficit with diet and or exercise(500x7=3500, 3500= 1 pound, for a 2 lb a week loss you would double, however creating a 1000 calorie a day deficit is hard on the body and one should not go below the recommended calories, there is a link somewhere out here about the person who only ate 700 caloriesa day, don't know where it is, but I'm sure some helpful MFP'er out there does
Lance Armstrong was considered overweight when he won I think his 6th Tour de France by the bmi calculations and he is a mean, lean muscle machine:happy:

fi-nz

I think this might be the post you're looking for:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/3047-700-calories-a-day-and-not-losing?page=1%23posts-19051

It's very hard to get your head around eating more to lose weight but it does work !!

beep

Oh, you're good, Girl. See, living in Missouri counts for sumpin!

Ok, so my BMR is 1505 and my BMI is 32. So, that means that if I didn't move out of bed, I would burn about 1500 calories. If I eat 1200 that gives me a 300 calorie deficit? Is that how that works? Oh, heck. I'll figure this out yet.

beep

Actually, it's much easier just to not write down what I had for dinner and forget about it :laugh:

lessertess

[Now I posted it b/c really bmi is not a good indicator of anything.

It works the other way as well. My trainer is working with a woman right now who is 5 feet 5 inches and weighs 115 pounds. When they measured her body fat she came in at an unhealthy BMI. Apparantly she has no muscle, only fat.

Weight/height ratios are not a reliable measurement of health.

beep

I think this might be the post you're looking for:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/3047-700-calories-a-day-and-not-losing?page=1%23posts-19051

It's very hard to get your head around eating more to lose weight but it does work !!

Yes, I have read that several times. But that's not my problem. Actually, it used to be my problem. I'm convinced that I have been at a starvation level every time I dieted, went into a depression and then stopped.

I am actually losing weight, and I am following all the advice, and eating my exercise calories. I just really want to understand all those formulas that have been thrown around on here. It sounds like I should only be eating around 500 calories based on my bmi, bmr whatever, but that it would be unhealthy to go under 1200.

lotusfromthemud

Oh, you're good, Girl. See, living in Missouri counts for sumpin!

Ok, so my BMR is 1505 and my BMI is 32. So, that means that if I didn't move out of bed, I would burn about 1500 calories. If I eat 1200 that gives me a 300 calorie deficit? Is that how that works? Oh, heck. I'll figure this out yet.

Your confusing BMR with maintenance calories. If your BMR is 1505, your maintenance calories is 300-400 calories more than this depending on the level of activity in your day.

I will say that I think you might be overthinking this. When you entered your stats here, if you set it for a pound a week, what does MFP tell you to eat? It's doing all this math for you. I'm just curious as what MFP tells you to set your calories at?

Oh, and NO WAY should you eat only 500 calories a day. Seriously.

shrtcwgrl

Another issue you are going to run into is in the beginning, while your body is adjusting to activity changes and such, you may not see any decrease at the scale. In fact, you may see an increase briefly. This is the time when your body is adjusting to the activity changes, as well as nutrition changes. My deficit is about 850 calories for a 1.7 pound per week loss. The important thing is to not only remain within your calorie count, but also your nutrition counts as well. Regardless of if you are maintaining your calories, if you go over your fats, carbs, or proteins, you can be counter-productive. When you exercise, and the calories you burn, you need to eat those exercise calories. Trust me! I know how hard it is to eat that many, especially when I burn almost 1000 calories at the gym 5 days a week. Its hard enough to eat 1200 cals for me, but to eat 2200 is almost impossible. Another interesting point is that my BMI is supposedly 31.7...but my body fat is 29%. This tells me that even though I'm supposedly obese, I'm in decent shape.
Keep plugging away and as you become more fit, it will become a little easier. Its a difficult concept to grasp, eating more to lose...but you'll see progress.
Good luck!

beep

Oh, you're good, Girl. See, living in Missouri counts for sumpin!

Ok, so my BMR is 1505 and my BMI is 32. So, that means that if I didn't move out of bed, I would burn about 1500 calories. If I eat 1200 that gives me a 300 calorie deficit? Is that how that works? Oh, heck. I'll figure this out yet.

Your confusing BMR with maintenance calories. If your BMR is 1505, your maintenance calories is 300-400 calories more than this depending on the level of activity in your day.

I will say that I think you might be overthinking this. When you entered your stats here, if you set it for a pound a week, what does MFP tell you to eat? It's doing all this math for you. I'm just curious as what MFP tells you to set your calories at?

Oh, and NO WAY should you eat only 500 calories a day. Seriously.

Ok, that makes more sense. It is telling me to eat 1200 for a 2 pound a week loss. Since I have 50 to lose, a 2-lb a week loss is not unreasonable, but once I get closer down there, will probably go for a 1-lb a week loss.

Thanks for all the info, Gals :flowerforyou:

lotusfromthemud

Oh, you're good, Girl. See, living in Missouri counts for sumpin!

Ok, so my BMR is 1505 and my BMI is 32. So, that means that if I didn't move out of bed, I would burn about 1500 calories. If I eat 1200 that gives me a 300 calorie deficit? Is that how that works? Oh, heck. I'll figure this out yet.

Your confusing BMR with maintenance calories. If your BMR is 1505, your maintenance calories is 300-400 calories more than this depending on the level of activity in your day.

I will say that I think you might be overthinking this. When you entered your stats here, if you set it for a pound a week, what does MFP tell you to eat? It's doing all this math for you. I'm just curious as what MFP tells you to set your calories at?

Oh, and NO WAY should you eat only 500 calories a day. Seriously.

Ok, that makes more sense. It is telling me to eat 1200 for a 2 pound a week loss. Since I have 50 to lose, a 2-lb a week loss is not unreasonable, but once I get closer down there, will probably go for a 1-lb a week loss.

Thanks for all the info, Gals :flowerforyou:

Sounds like a plan! If you get stuck, don't be afraid to up your calories to break through a plateau. You may find that your body likes a smaller deficit. It's part art, part science. Best of luck in meeting your goals.:flowerforyou:

beep

Just read your profile, Vivia... you obviously know what you're talking about, Girl. You are awesome. There are so many "losers" on here, I think even when I've lost all my weight, I'll be so hooked on all these people, I may never leave.....

banks1850

You guys post too fast for me.

looks like the right Ideas show through from what I read.

Just remember guys, while BMI is a standard based on average body types, it's not a flawless calculation. Depending on your body type (very atheltic people can't use BMI standards as they break down with high lean tissue volumes) you may not be able to squeeze yourself (pun intended) into a particular BMI range. Generally though, if your BMI is up over 30 and you aren't particularly athletic, then you can probably have close to a 1000 calorie deficit to start that is NET deficit (I.E. after your exercise calories are added in!), but once you start losing weight, or otherwise see changes in your body, you need to be vigilant and adjust your deficit downward accordingly.

for instance, I started this site 40 lbs overweight and was at about 800 calorie net deficit, now I am at about 250 net deficit, and working toward 12% body fat (I'm down from 19% to 14.5), as soon as I hit that 12 I'm going to start gaining again (with lean muscle) and have a net surplus probably for about 3 months before I even out at maintenance. See how it can change?

mkeithley

[Now I posted it b/c really bmi is not a good indicator of anything.

It works the other way as well. My trainer is working with a woman right now who is 5 feet 5 inches and weighs 115 pounds. When they measured her body fat she came in at an unhealthy BMI. Apparantly she has no muscle, only fat.

Weight/height ratios are not a reliable measurement of health.

"The BMI (body mass index) numbers are NOT percentages of body fat. For example, a BMI of 29 is in the overweight range for women. This has nothing to do with 29 percent body fat, which is considered healthy.
There are quite a few groups of people for whom BMI is not as accurate –- short women and muscular people, to name two. BMI also varies according to some ethnic groups".

mkeithley

You guys post too fast for me.

looks like the right Ideas show through from what I read.

And the master arrives:laugh: :happy: :laugh: :happy:
Thank goodness you came and put it in a way that made much more sense than me:blushing: :bigsmile:

wagsgirls

ok i have actually been confused on this too, so don't feel bad bee! by the way the dog in your pic is adorable! what kind is it? anyway, so i got tired of trying to figure it out and figured if i just stick with what the site tells me to eat then i would be ok. until i weighed at the docs and the number was up. then i thought maybe i was doing something wrong. i am 31yrs old, 5'5" and weigh (i thought 183 +/-) according to my moms scale about 2 wks ago, but according to the docs i weigh 190. mfp tells me to eat 1200 cals a day. i have it set to lose 2lbs a week to start then i figured i would go down. i put in that i'm not very active only because i work part time and am home. i mean i don't just sit all day and do nothing but i figured if i set it lower and was more active that was probably better than setting it higher and being less right? and i walked at LEAST 45min 3 days a week usually more. but i used the same logic with that. so can you guys tell me if i'm on the right track? thanks!

beep

You guys post too fast for me.

looks like the right Ideas show through from what I read.



for instance, I started this site 40 lbs overweight and was at about 800 calorie net deficit, now I am at about 250 net deficit, and working toward 12% body fat (I'm down from 19% to 14.5), as soon as I hit that 12 I'm going to start gaining again (with lean muscle) and have a net surplus probably for about 3 months before I even out at maintenance. See how it can change?

You are just too awesome. Thanks for the post.

beep

ok i have actually been confused on this too, so don't feel bad bee! by the way the dog in your pic is adorable! what kind is it? anyway, so i got tired of trying to figure it out and figured if i just stick with what the site tells me to eat then i would be ok. until i weighed at the docs and the number was up. then i thought maybe i was doing something wrong. i am 31yrs old, 5'5" and weigh (i thought 183 +/-) according to my moms scale about 2 wks ago, but according to the docs i weigh 190. mfp tells me to eat 1200 cals a day. i have it set to lose 2lbs a week to start then i figured i would go down. i put in that i'm not very active only because i work part time and am home. i mean i don't just sit all day and do nothing but i figured if i set it lower and was more active that was probably better than setting it higher and being less right? and i walked at LEAST 45min 3 days a week usually more. but i used the same logic with that. so can you guys tell me if i'm on the right track? thanks!

That's amazing, I think we're the same person :laugh: except that you're a lot younger than me. Same height, almost the same weight, walk 45 min 3 days a week, sometimes more.....
My dog is a Catahoula leopard Dog, also known as a Louisiana Hog Dog.

beep

You guys post too fast for me.

looks like the right Ideas show through from what I read.

And the master arrives:laugh: :happy: :laugh: :happy:
Thank goodness you came and put it in a way that made much more sense than me:blushing: :bigsmile:

You did good, bean friend.:happy:

REB89

Ok my friend, Check this out, these are bmi calculations for celebrities and sports people(The Rock OBESE?!?! I don't think so):

Barry Bonds: 6'2": 228 lbs: 29
David Boreanaz: 6'2": 218 lbs: 28
Tom Brady: 6'4": 225 lbs: 27
President Bush: 5'11": 191 lbs: 26
Nic Cage: 6'1": 210 lbs: 28
George Clooney: 5'11": 211 lbs: 29
Tom Cruise: 5'7": 170 lbs: 26
Matt Damon: 5'11": 187 lbs: 26
Johnny Depp: 5'7": 190 lbs: 27
David Duchovny: 6'0": 212 lbs: 29
Vin Diesel: 6'2": 200 lbs: 26
Cheryl Ford: 6'3": 215 lbs:27
Harrison Ford: 6'1": 218 lbs: 29
Brendan Fraser: 6'3": 234 lbs: 29
Richard Gere: 5'11": 187 lbs: 26
Ethan Hawke: 5'9": 172 lbs: 25
Hugh Jackman: 6'2": 210 lbs: 27
Lebron James: 6'8": 240 lbs: 26
Dale Jarrett: 6'2": 200 lbs: 26
Bobby Labonte: 5'9": 170 lbs: 25
Nick Lachey: 5'10": 180 lbs: 26
Karl Malone: 6'9": 259 lbs: 28
Dr. Phil McGraw: 6'4": 240 lbs: 29
Mark McGuire (playing weight): 6'5": 250 lbs: 30
Donovan McNabb: 6'3": 240 lbs: 30
Yao Ming: 7'6": 310 lbs: 27
Brad Pitt: 6'0": 203 lbs: 28
Keanu Reeves: 6'1": 223 lbs: 29
Cal Ripken: 6'4": 210 lbs: 27
Andy Rod****: 6'2": 197 lbs: 25
Will Smith: 6'2": 210 lbs: 27
Sammy Sosa: 6'0": 220 lbs: 30
Denzel Washington: 6'0": 199 lbs: 27
Bruce Willis: 6'0": 200 lbs: 29
Billy Zane: 6'2": 210 lbs: 27
OBESE:
Mel Gibson 5'9": 214 pounds: 32
Matt LeBlanc: 5'11": 218 lbs: 30
Steve McNair: 6'2": 235 lbs: 30
The Rock (Dwayne Johnson): 6'5": 275 lbs: 33
Arnold Schwarzenegger: 6'2": 257 lbs: 33
Sylvester Stallone: 5'9": 228 lbs: 34
Mike Tyson: 5'11 ½": fighting weight between 218-235: 30-32


The federal government defines "overweight" and "obese" using the body mass index (BMI), a simple calculation based only on height and weight. "Normal" weight is defined as a BMI between 18.5 and 24.9. "Overweight" is defined as a BMI between 25 and 29.9. "Obese" is a BMI of 30 or higher.

Are these classifications meaningful? According to the government standard, Tom Cruise, Sylvester Stallone, and Mel Gibson are technically obese. So are sluggers Sammy Sosa and Barry Bonds, boxer Mike Tyson, quarterback Donovan McNabb, and wrestling superstar The Rock. And if politics is your thing, it turns out that California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger—a bodybuilding legend—is obese, too.

It’s not just the official category of obesity that has been affected by numerical hocus-pocus. Thirty-five million Americans went to sleep one night in 1998 at a government-approved weight and woke up "overweight" the next morning, thanks to a change in the government’s definition. That group includes currently "overweight" celebrities like Will Smith and Pierce Brosnan, as well as NBA stars Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. It even includes George W. Bush, considered the most fit president in U.S. history. "Overweight" had previously been defined as a BMI of 27.8 for men and 27.3 for women; in 1998 it was lowered to a BMI of 25 for both genders.

The 1998 redefinition prompted a group of researchers to criticize the new threshold in The American Journal of Public Health. They wrote:

"Current interpretations of the revised guidelines stigmatize too many people as overweight, fail to account for sex, race/ethnicity, age, and other differences; and ignore the serious health risks associated with low weight and efforts to maintain an unrealistically lean body mass … This seeming rush to lower the standard for overweight to such a level that 55% of American adults find themselves being declared overweight or obese raises serious concerns."
A research letter published in JAMA (the journal of the American Medical Association) reported that 97 percent of players in the National Football League are technically overweight and more than 50 percent are obese. The NFL responded by calling the BMI "bogus," since it "doesn’t consider body muscle versus fat."

The reason these people are classed as overweight is because they are (well most) very muscular (and the same volume of muscle weighs more than the same volume of fat) and the BMI is not designed for very muscular people. That is why it isn't as accurate as say body fat percentage.

banks1850

Some thoughts.

Wags,
1000 cal deficit is borderline for you, but the thing is (and I'll recommend this to everyone), use a scale that you know is accurate (you can use the one at your gym or doctor, they usually are certified once a year for accuracy) because if you're going to base calorie counts on weight, you don't want to be 5 or 10 lbs off.

Personally, I almost never recommend 1000 calorie deficit unless you are well above a 30 BMI and you aren't in particularly great shape, and at your weight and height, you should probably be concentrating on exercise more then deficit (a 500 to 800 calorie deficit should be fine for you).
I don't know what your exercise routine is, but my thoughts are, if you can do it (medically speaking) walking is a good start, but a more vigorous routine should be what you are shooting for, something that makes you out of breath and sweaty on pretty much a daily basis, that means lots of cardio in the 70 to 80% max heart rate range for a good 40 minutes to 1 hour would most likely make a HUGE difference. And remember, some people take months before their body adjusts and starts showing real results.

As to that BMI list, I gotta agree with rebecca here, notice that the people on there with the highest BMI's are people with LOTS of muscle mass and the ones with the highest like Sousa, The Rock, McGuire...etc all are either very athletic (is there a steroid correlation here? Hmmmm, I wonder) or they were very muscular at some point in their life. BMI is a standard for the large majority of the country, not for the 3 to 5% that are extremely heavy for their volume (muscle is very heavy compared to fat, that's where BMI breaks down). Plus we don't know if these numbers are completely accurate. For example if Lebron James is 240, I have green skin and can fly like a bird, I would be shocked if he stepped on the scale and it said anything less then 265.

shorerider

Plus we don't know if these numbers are completely accurate. For example if Lebron James is 240, I have green skin and can fly like a bird, I would be shocked if he stepped on the scale and it said anything less then 265.

Yep, and if Dr. Phil weighs in at 240 and Bruce Willis at 200, then I'm up there in the sky with ya, Banks!

Why is though that men with some meat on their bones can get away with it and still be considered sexy (David Boreanaz and Brendan Fraser--not skinny but sexy as all get out!) yet women can't do the same?

Have you ever noticed, too, that in shows and movies they will often have the overweight man getting "jiggy with it" with some sexy skinny woman but you never see an overweight woman getting with a "sexy" skinny man?

banks1850

Plus we don't know if these numbers are completely accurate. For example if Lebron James is 240, I have green skin and can fly like a bird, I would be shocked if he stepped on the scale and it said anything less then 265.

Yep, and if Dr. Phil weighs in at 240 and Bruce Willis at 200, then I'm up there in the sky with ya, Banks!

Why is though that men with some meat on their bones can get away with it and still be considered sexy (David Boreanaz and Brendan Fraser--not skinny but sexy as all get out!) yet women can't do the same?

Have you ever noticed, too, that in shows and movies they will often have the overweight man getting "jiggy with it" with some sexy skinny woman but you never see an overweight woman getting with a "sexy" skinny man?

You can blame the fashion industry for a lot of that one IMHO. Personally I think Marylin was the sexiest woman ever, and wasn't she like a size 12 or something like that? Granted she was a drug addict and a adultress, but I'm not talking about someone I would want to marry, just nice to look at.

mkeithley

My whoel reasonong for the posts was to point out that the BMI is just another silly number, like the number on the scale, body fat% numbers(which are not always accurate) or the number inside your jeans.They are SILLY!!!! I honestly believe that taking measurements w/a tape measure is a more healthy and a suitable way to measure your success. That's why I don't own a scale:bigsmile: