Slow metabolism maybe related to PCOS or Insulin Resistance

heybales

Seems like a reasonable comparison method to remove lbm, age and height factors - although stronger statistical methods could have been used.

I'm not a fan of using regression through the study subjects for correction, something more population based appeals more as the small sample gives some pretty weak BMR correlations.

Didn't know if you had better access.

Did they do one of the common weight loss study participant selection methods - no weight loss or attempt in prior 6-9 months?

Now that I'm seeing more and more studies with results showing people could slow their RMR down by their own weight loss attempts, and keep it suppressed by just eating much less than possible, always curious on that one.

Because their BMI's are in healthy range, but did they just lose weight to get them there?

heybales

Being a women with PCOS and IR, this is thoroughly depressing, but I always kinda knew it. (i've always exercised too)

Screwed hormones, less efficient, it makes sense somewhat.

More efficient actually it sounds like.

Can do the same required functions with less calories.

Though, does your hair seem to grow as fast as others?
Do you fidget as much as others?

Those aren't entirely useful either though, because other studies have shown undereating the body stops or slows the spontaneous activity to conserve calories for more important functions.

EvgeniZyntx

PCOS and IR. Tested RMR is consistently 10% higher than all the formula estimations.

If in doubt, get your RMR tested. I was sure mine would be low but it's actually high.

Successfully managed? Treatment? This might influence RMR.

Dragonwolf

I don't think its too small to report but with minimum cohort being 30, this isn't far off being too small. I appreciate that the findings may be true but I would take it all with a pinch of salt until they expanded it in to a much much bigger study and managed to replicate it.

I just worry with these kind of things people take a study findings as a gospel and use it to legitimise why they can't lose weight or change their lifestyle. From working in medicine I find that patients love having something to blame for their health when in fact it makes only a small difference overall.

Most women with PCOS who have attempted to lose weight do not use it as an excuse and will in fact go to great lengths to try to find something that works (a co-morbid of PCOS is depression, in no small part due to the myriad of issues that range from embarrassing to devastating). There are some who don't (there always is in any group), but that's either a) because they've given up, or b) they'd be lazy even without PCOS and would have just found another excuse.

Going down as far as 500-800 calories is not uncommon in PCOS circles, often at the recommendation of doctors who don't realize that ketogenic type diets also work and are healthy (arguably healthier than living off of the number of calories that would qualify one as anorexic). And, of course, a ketogenic diet, or other diet that restricts carbs to around 100g and cuts out sugar almost entirely, works very well in women with PCOS, but is considered "extreme" in these parts.

Studies like this give us (and doctors) a good reason to have our RMR/BMR tested, to find another datapoint to use to find what works, especially for those of us who aren't fortunate enough to be able to just restrict calories like normal, or carbs slightly and be able to lose weight.

Dragonwolf

Maybe I'm the lucky exception. I have insulin resistance and am on medications that may cause a slowdown in the ability to lose weight but CICO/IIFYM has worked for me. I also have serious hormone issues due to peri-menopause.

I'm down 32 lbs in 106 days. That's not bad considering that I am only allowed to use 5000 steps on my FitBit as exercise and I'm set at 1540 calories/day. Yes. I have a closed diary. I don't really feel like getting spoken to about going to Chipotle or eating at the company cafeteria at work.

I think the study (limited as it is) might be true for a lot of women with PCOS and insulin resistance but I also think that sometimes articles like this give people an excuse to use to explain why they're not losing weight. Flame away. Tell me I'm the exception not the rule but I just don't want people to think they're doomed.

PCOS is a syndrome, which by definition means that not everyone will present the same way or to the same degree. Consider yourself fortunate that you haven't had issues losing weight on 1540 calories and eating whatever fits your macros (which I assume is more or less what MFP sets for you?), and please don't be so condescending to those of us who haven't been so fortunate as to have the typical recommendations work and have to resort to what most people consider "extreme" or "drastic" in order to see any results.

A study alone won't make people think they're doomed, their own struggles have already led them down that path, when they have to deal with things like condescending doctors who refuse to run tests and just blame them for being overweight, or clueless doctors who just blindly prescribe Metformin and the Pill and say "good luck," or they have to resort to 800 calories a day to see any weight loss at all and can't keep it up because at the same time, the body can't get enough fuel to power itself. Trust me, daily life has already been enough to make a lot of women with PCOS feel like they're doomed. Be thankful you've been spared that.

On a side (and slightly more cheery) note -- Chipotle is actually a pretty good choice of place to eat, provided you are sensible about how you build your meal (the worst part about it is that the calories and carbs can really rack up if you're not careful, the food itself is better quality than most other fast food joints).

Dragonwolf

Being a women with PCOS and IR, this is thoroughly depressing, but I always kinda knew it. (i've always exercised too)

Screwed hormones, less efficient, it makes sense somewhat.

More efficient actually it sounds like.

Can do the same required functions with less calories.

Though, does your hair seem to grow as fast as others?
Do you fidget as much as others?

Those aren't entirely useful either though, because other studies have shown undereating the body stops or slows the spontaneous activity to conserve calories for more important functions.

More efficient at storing fat, yes. Less efficient at utilizing what's stored (in a lot of cases). The biggest problem I've personally run into is that my fasting insulin is too high to really allow for the burning of stored fat, so eating below TDEE just results in me getting lethargic and long recovery times, instead of bodyfat metabolism.

This is the key that I think a lot of people don't get about PCOS -- we often skip the bodyfat burning part entirely, and go straight to process shutdown. Our bodies "make up for the deficit" not by pulling more calories from storage for the "input" half of the equation, but by reducing the "output" half. The body acts like it's starving, even though it's overweight, basically.

Elly1021

Thank you for posting about this study. The reduced BMR rings true for me. I have PCOS & IR & I either have to cut carbs or drop my calorie intake WAY down from the suggested before I see results -- more than the 200 or so suggested by the study.

I find information like this affirming. As a rule, if you dare to suggest that CICO does not seem to be working the way it ought, people tend to think you are... less than credible. Their faith in this system is so absolute that I have doubted myself, wondering: 'Am I eating more than I think? Is my food scale wrong? Am I eating in my sleep?' etc. etc. It can be very frustrating. Information like this helps.

omma_to_3

PCOS and IR. Tested RMR is consistently 10% higher than all the formula estimations.

If in doubt, get your RMR tested. I was sure mine would be low but it's actually high.

Successfully managed? Treatment? This might influence RMR.

I've been on Metformin for a long time - 12+ years? I do not do low carb. However, my symptoms never improved with the use of Met. I never regained monthly cycles until I got "old". Hit the age of 35 and started cycling regularly. Losing weight shortened my cycles by about 2 days. So I guess now, my symptoms are very neglible, but you're right, I suppose that could affect my RMR.

Dragonwolf

PCOS and IR. Tested RMR is consistently 10% higher than all the formula estimations.

If in doubt, get your RMR tested. I was sure mine would be low but it's actually high.

Successfully managed? Treatment? This might influence RMR.

I've been on Metformin for a long time - 12+ years? I do not do low carb. However, my symptoms never improved with the use of Met. I never regained monthly cycles until I got "old". Hit the age of 35 and started cycling regularly. Losing weight shortened my cycles by about 2 days. So I guess now, my symptoms are very neglible, but you're right, I suppose that could affect my RMR.

Considering that Metformin doesn't do anything other than increase the liver's sensitivity to insulin (decreasing fasting insulin levels in the blood), there's no real reason for it to change your other symptoms if they weren't being caused by high levels of insulin, which, from the sound of it, they weren't (except for weight, most likely).

PCOS's woes aren't just caused by elevated insulin, but also by imbalanced hormones. Specifically, too much testosterone (facial/body hair, male patterned baldness) and estrogen dominance (can either be from excess estrogen production or from insufficient progesterone; causes fat gain, general hair loss, and some sources say sluggish metabolism). Considering our estrogen levels fluctuate throughout our lives, especially as we get closer to menopause, and that fat cells create estrogen, it's not surprising that you started cycling regularly and have decreased symptoms, seemingly at random. Additionally, if you were ever on birth control, odds are, it was estrogen-based, exacerbating the matter.

whatascene

I found this really interesting thank you for sharing. I have PCOS + IR too, and I noticed when I went onto this site that while I did this with a friend, she lost more quickly than I did. Though I'm in my BMI and really healthy now, I'm noticing a HUGE struggle in these last 10 lbs to my goal weight. I chose another route though, I tried eating 1200 a day and nothing was happening, I'm on a trial for the next few weeks (changed my diary to lightly active rather than sedentary) to see if that helps.

getfitgal123

Interesting. I always wondered if there was a connection. I had my RMR measured by a BodyGem machine several years back and the trainer said it was low especially considering my muscle mass (it was 1190). About a year after that I was diagnosed with PCOS.

FiresongUK

I have been tentatively diagnosed with PCOS but my doctor really doesn't seem to care. "You're not trying for a baby and you can get facial hair remover so does it matter?"

I was wondering about this earlier too. I've always had abdominal fat more than anywhere else, even now it's all on the stomach, and it's really difficult to shift unless I cut calories to 1200. It took me 6 months to lose 12lb before a holiday and I put it all back on quickly afterwards.

Since my cat got spayed last week they gave me an information leaflet stating that neutered animals typically need 20% less calories than intact. It made me wonder whether this is the same case as in humans with hormonal problems. I've had a look through my university library for journals relating to it but I can't find anything, even on where that 20% figure came from.

eldamiano

Ah yes, metabolism - the most overrated excuse in the weight loss world.

psuLemon

Very interesting article. It would be nice to have access to see all parameters.

missa3428

FiresongUK wrote: »

I have been tentatively diagnosed with PCOS but my doctor really doesn't seem to care. "You're not trying for a baby and you can get facial hair remover so does it matter?"

I was wondering about this earlier too. I've always had abdominal fat more than anywhere else, even now it's all on the stomach, and it's really difficult to shift unless I cut calories to 1200. It took me 6 months to lose 12lb before a holiday and I put it all back on quickly afterwards.

Since my cat got spayed last week they gave me an information leaflet stating that neutered animals typically need 20% less calories than intact. It made me wonder whether this is the same case as in humans with hormonal problems. I've had a look through my university library for journals relating to it but I can't find anything, even on where that 20% figure came from.

When your hormones are off this can cause weight gain and hard to lose it like others that have normal hormone balance. If you think you may have PCOS, here is some info as to why its hard to lose weight with hormone inbalance problems(in this case due to PCOS)

PCOS makes it more difficult for the body to use the hormone insulin, which normally helps convert sugars and starches from foods into energy. This condition -- called insulin resistance -- can cause insulin and sugar -- glucose -- to build up in the bloodstream.

High insulin levels increase the production of male hormones called androgens. High androgen levels lead to symptoms such as body hair growth, acne, irregular periods -- and weight gain. Because the weight gain is triggered by male hormones, it is typically in the abdomen. That is where men tend to carry weight. So, instead of having a pear shape, women with PCOS have more of an apple shape.

Abdominal fat is the most dangerous kind of fat. That’s because it is associated with an increased risk of heart disease and other health conditions.

PrizePopple

Bookmarked this. I find out this Friday if I've got thyroid problems, PCOS, and possible prediabetes.

Good times. /sarcasm

rainbowblu

Thanks for all of the responses. I have PCOS and IR and it sometimes feels like I'm the only one in the world with it.

I have been that person who follows "diets" completely accurate, weighing,measuring, and following whatever rules of that diet with minimal success. I have been told "what do you eat when I'm not around?" by friends and family because they still believe that I MUST be binging on something when they are not around. I have been ignored and misguided by my Dr. who looks at me with that "just eat less and exercise more" look.....

It took YEARS of different diets,Dr.'s,and my own research to find what works for my PCOS and IR..YEARS..years of me feeling like a failure KNOWING that I was following the old CICO with minimal results...growing facial hair,balding thinning hair, and MAYBE 1 period a year...

UGH...we can do it ladies.It may take some trial and error to find what works best for your body,but never give up and find a DR. with compassion and knowledge about PCOS and IR.