weight training & not losing

TrainingWithTonya

Out of interest how long will I have to be lifting for for my muscles to stop retaining water? or am I stuck with it for good?

If you keep lifting, you will keep storing glycogen in water. Even if you build more muscle fibers, you will store more glycogen in those muscle fibers too. This is a good thing. It is what fuels your future weight training workouts. If you stop lifting, you will start to lose those improvements in about 3 days. But who would want to lose those improvements in strength and ability? The good news is that unless you keep increasing the weight you are lifting you will max out with how much glycogen you will need to store. When that happens you will start to see the scale go down because the fat burning will keep happening from the exercise and healthy eating.

I am steadily increasing what I lift as I keep improving, so it looks like I'll always have then. Is that what your saying?

You'll keep storing the same amount you've been storing, definitely. But eventually, you will get to a point where you are maintaining similar weights with your workouts and then you will maintain similar glycogen amounts. Basically, the more you need for lifting, the more you will store. When you get to a maintenance phase of weight training, you will maintain your glycogen stores too. That isn't necessarily your maintenance phase of training for body fat loss. It's usually just your genetic maximum amount of weight you can lift/glycogen you can store. Continuing to train at that level will maintain your metabolism so that you can keep burning fat to lose whatever body fat you still need to lose.

decblessings

Out of interest how long will I have to be lifting for for my muscles to stop retaining water? or am I stuck with it for good?

If you keep lifting, you will keep storing glycogen in water. Even if you build more muscle fibers, you will store more glycogen in those muscle fibers too. This is a good thing. It is what fuels your future weight training workouts. If you stop lifting, you will start to lose those improvements in about 3 days. But who would want to lose those improvements in strength and ability? The good news is that unless you keep increasing the weight you are lifting you will max out with how much glycogen you will need to store. When that happens you will start to see the scale go down because the fat burning will keep happening from the exercise and healthy eating.

I am steadily increasing what I lift as I keep improving, so it looks like I'll always have then. Is that what your saying?

You'll keep storing the same amount you've been storing, definitely. But eventually, you will get to a point where you are maintaining similar weights with your workouts and then you will maintain similar glycogen amounts. Basically, the more you need for lifting, the more you will store. When you get to a maintenance phase of weight training, you will maintain your glycogen stores too. That isn't necessarily your maintenance phase of training for body fat loss. It's usually just your genetic maximum amount of weight you can lift/glycogen you can store. Continuing to train at that level will maintain your metabolism so that you can keep burning fat to lose whatever body fat you still need to lose.

Interesting information. Thanks for sharing.

rachelrb85

Throw away the scale and just pay attention to the measuring tape. You lost 4% and 5 inches, that's awesome progress. Heavy lifting is a great way to lose body fat while retaining muscle (with a good amount of protein), so you may not be losing pounds but the inches will continue to fly off.

elliej

If you're lifting heavy 5 days a week you're not giving your muscles much recovery time. On many programs, like Stronglifts 5x5, they suggest having a rest day after /every/ lifting day. I don't pretend to be an expert but I'm pretty sure that tired muscles retain more water.

sticky130

If you're lifting heavy 5 days a week you're not giving your muscles much recovery time. On many programs, like Stronglifts 5x5, they suggest having a rest day after /every/ lifting day. I don't pretend to be an expert but I'm pretty sure that tired muscles retain more water.

I do different muscle groups different days so they get 7 days recovery, apart from legs which I do twice a week. I follow a Jamie Eason Plan, so following that to a T

etremoi53

I am not lifting but I really increased my exercise a lot in the last month and I have not seen anything happening on the scales either although some people have commented that they see a difference so there must be some changes. I am seriously frustrated too. I don't know how the scale can be holding out when I have increased my activity so much. I am hiking 6 miles 3-4 times per week, pretty vigorous, sweaty, level changing hikes and other exercise on top of that. I was interested to read other people's answers to your post because of this. I was thinking I should add some weight training on top of the hiking and I see that that might also not help me lose, but then I would still look and feel better. Good luck.

sticky130

I am not lifting but I really increased my exercise a lot in the last month and I have not seen anything happening on the scales either although some people have commented that they see a difference so there must be some changes. I am seriously frustrated too. I don't know how the scale can be holding out when I have increased my activity so much. I am hiking 6 miles 3-4 times per week, pretty vigorous, sweaty, level changing hikes and other exercise on top of that. I was interested to read other people's answers to your post because of this. I was thinking I should add some weight training on top of the hiking and I see that that might also not help me lose, but then I would still look and feel better. Good luck.

I know, frustrating isn't it?

Especially when people think you're either eating too much or over estimating what you're burning!!

_KitKat_

If you are eating on a deficient, you will not gain muscle enough to slow weight loss noticeably. Heavy lifting and any new routine will have your muscles retain water for healing. I looked up the workout you mentioned because I was going to comment that rest days are needed from lifting, but this program seems to be light weight/high rep. Its more of an endurance/cardio workout. Some of the compound lifts in it....bench, dead, squats are great and for most can serve the purpose if lifting progressively heavier.

People assume you are eating more or overestimating burn, is simply because in the long run if weight isn't loss that is what it is 99% of the time. The consuming more is normally based on if someone doesn't weigh all their foods or some omit small things that add up. Overestimating burn happens all the time, gym machines and MFP are almost always extremely high and even a heart rate monitor is only helpful for steady state cardio.

Great job on the inches, that is what truly matters anyways. If after another month your weight does not drop, you may be eating at TDEE and accomplishing body recomposition, which is great on its own. If you want weight loss you will need to reevaluate your logging, calorie goal and it may be best to switch to the TDEE-% method.

sticky130

If you are eating on a deficient, you will not gain muscle enough to slow weight loss noticeably. Heavy lifting and any new routine will have your muscles retain water for healing. I looked up the workout you mentioned because I was going to comment that rest days are needed from lifting, but this program seems to be light weight/high rep. Its more of an endurance/cardio workout. Some of the compound lifts in it....bench, dead, squats are great and for most can serve the purpose if lifting progressively heavier.

People assume you are eating more or overestimating burn, is simply because in the long run if weight isn't loss that is what it is 99% of the time. The consuming more is normally based on if someone doesn't weigh all their foods or some omit small things that add up. Overestimating burn happens all the time, gym machines and MFP are almost always extremely high and even a heart rate monitor is only helpful for steady state cardio.

Great job on the inches, that is what truly matters anyways. If after another month your weight does not drop, you may be eating at TDEE and accomplishing body recomposition, which is great on its own. If you want weight loss you will need to reevaluate your logging, calorie goal and it may be best to switch to the TDEE-% method.

Hi, thanks for your reply,

My TDEE at the moment is 2321 and I'm eating at about a 35% deficit. (i've erred on the side of caution this is for exercise 3 days a week and I do 5)

I agree with you about the overestimation of exercise calories and when I was trying to figure out what was going on I compared lots of different calculators and they were all different! but all within about 50 of one another. I don't use MFP for any of my estimation I log all my activity with my Fitbit

I never thought though that the plan I was doing was low weight high rep, as weight is relative to lifter. In this plan each muscle set is 3x10 and I shouldn't be able to manage another lift with the weight I'm using after the last set, if I can, I increase weight until this happens. I'm now lifting double the weight from when I started.

_KitKat_

Some do lift 3*10 but take a look at stronglifts 5x5 or New Rule of Lifting for Women. I wasn't saying your program is bad, just not what many would consider "heavey lifting". An example of a difference... SL 5x5 you do 5 sets of 5 on major compound lifts (dead, squat, rows, overhead, & bench), every workout the weight goes up if you completed your sets. It is progressive lifting and constantly upping the weights. Other times heavy lifting is about 4-6 reps per set if you can put up the 7th on any of the sets, it may be time to up your weight. I do use 8-10 on isolation exercises. The main thing is liking your program if you like it then do it, if not look around and find something you like. I hate cardio machines, so when I need cardio I do lighter weight 3x10 with no rest periods and some steady state cardio in between.

TDEE -35% is very extreme 20% is considered aggressive. Also with the TDEE method you are NOT suppose to eat exercise calories back.

Weighing food can seem tedious but it is needed to know intake. It is easy when your used to it and it gives you a better understanding of portion for the times you have to estimate. Also don't forget cooking oils, these add up quick.

List of the basics.....also look at the rate of loss chart on the bottom, quicker weight loss can lead to losing lean body mass (muscle), loose skin and not be as sustainable.....


*Log EVERYTHING

*Weigh Solids

*Measure liquids

*Exercise for fitness
(weight lifting is my recommendation)

*Be Honest with Yourself

*Measure yourself, take silly pictures and then enjoy your progress.

And............

*****MOST IMPORTANTLY******

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READ THIS

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http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1080242-a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants
======================================================================================================

THEN READ IT AGAIN........ :drinker:


If you have 75+ lbs to lose 2 lbs/week is ideal
If you have 40-75 lbs to lose 1.5 lbs/week is ideal
If you have 25-40 lbs to lose 1 lbs/week is ideal
If you have 15 -25 lbs to lose 0.5 to 1.0 lbs/week is ideal
If you have less than 15 lbs to lose 0.5 lbs/week is ideal

sticky130

Ok, Did you read the previous posts or look at my diary? Every little thing that passes my lips is measured/weighed with digital scales otherwise I'm just cheating myself (to the point of being anal!) lol

Also The plan I'm doing works in exactly the same way, really the only difference is I'm repeating each movement 30 times instead of 25.

TDEE without taking exercise into consideration 1963 so I'm eating 20% under this (still the same calories as 35% below TDEE with exercise 3 times a week) So exactly the same.

I've just started taking proper pictures as at the moment as then I'll be able to see myself the changes which I don't feel I'm noticing (even though everybody else is!) I shouldn't really be so fixated on the scale, all the lifters that have helped me have said ignore it, don't weigh yourself use a tape!! I know I'm losing weight now as the tape measure is going down (a lot!) & I've already had to get rid of a large bin bag full of clothes. For example 6 inches off my waist.

I'm just frustrated that the scales stopped moving!!! grrrr The whole reason I started lifting is I want to minimise lean body mass lost.

As previous posters have said, and friends on a bodybuilding site I use, I AM losing weight as the tape is moving, it just takes longer for the scale to catch up!! :grumble:

Also yesterday I had a look at 5x5 and we may switch to this as my husband, who doesn't take any notice of anything and spends all his time going what are we doing now, even though he's done this plan for weeks, (:explode: ) read the explanation of 5x5 and states this is much simpler I know all the moves can we switch to this one?? So thanks for that :drinker:

_KitKat_

I agree inches matter most, heck they are my main goal :drinker:

Different reps do different things, found this and it explains it better than I can....

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne45.htm

3x10 vs 5x5 just do different things, I can tell you from experience the weight I squat (today 118lb, kinda stuck for now) I could not do 10 times in a row, heck 7 may knock my butt to the ground. When I'd do circuit training and do 3x10 I drop to about 75lbs for my squats and all other weights drop too, my main goal then is to keep my heart rate up.

As for your logging, no I didn't look and the bottom of my post was something I always post if someone is wondering why the scale isn't moving.

TDEE without taking exercise into consideration 1963 so I'm eating 20% under this (still the same calories as 35% below TDEE with exercise 3 times a week) So exactly the same.

I do have to disagree here. TDEE without exercise is NEAT (it is what MFP uses) with this you eat exercise calories back. TDEE is with exercise and you do not eat them back, you eat the same amount daily. TDEE- 20% is cconsidered very aggressive, its fine but is for people with large amounts of weight to lose 75+lbs. The number may workout the same in the end but overall the 2 methods are very different and down the road these number change and the math can get messed up.

Over all I think your progress is fantastic, I was just trying to answer the scale question because in a deficient weight will be loss, hidden by water weight though happens all the time, my body can hide a 4lb loss from me and then one day it is just there. So at your deficient (didn't do the math but guessing a 500 calorie daily) that is 1lb per week, that would mean for me I may not see it for a month. Plus weight loss is not linear so maybe even 6 weeks. That is why most say wait 4-6 weeks before changing a new program.

Strong lifts 5*5 is a great beginner program, ice cream fitness 5*5 is great too, especially if you want some isolation exercises in there. http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-ice-cream-fitness-5x5-novice-workout

On MFP under progress you can custom make things to track, so you can track your measurements just like weight.


I love the "cheating myself" remark, I feel this way too and never understand when people don't log things for the purpose of making the numbers work.....its a lie they don't work then :noway:

Lifting and enough protein will help prevent LBM loss.

Huge congrats on your progress and having a husband that lifts with you :flowerforyou: (mine does and I love it, well most days:grumble: )

CharleePear

I get it, I lose weight extremely slowly and apart from very occasionaly slip ups in going over my daily calories (but I am still in deficit) I am pretty good.

Just hang in there love. I have been going seriously for almost a year and trying to lose weight for the past year at least, actually more if I think about it. It's still making changes in your body. Comparison is the killer I find. I am not sure if you are comparing but I think there is a lot of expectation that loss needs to be seen in 'X' amount of time, but every BODY is different. I have always found it tough to lose weight, even as an anorexic I was bigger so no one noticed! (for example)

There are some people who are a bit more sensitive to certain foods than others, like it's not as extreme as the fanatics will say like 'low carb this" or "low fat that" but just try until you find what works. I eat at deficit for a few months and then do a month of Intermittent Fasting it seems to help me. But as everyone else has said, you are seeing body fat loss, and inches lost, that is so good!!! Something to be joyful about! Take regular pictures for sure. You will be surprised.

JeninBelgium

I consume about 1500-1600 a day and do about 350-400 cals from lifting and fitbit activity so I'm netting around 1200 a day which I feel is a bit low to be honest!

I think I'll just go and change it back, lol!

FITBIT WAY WAY WAY WAY SERIOUSLY OVERESTIMATES my calorie burn so perhaps it overestimates yours as well.

I have 2 different heart rate monitor watches- one which used to say I burned a lot of calories and the other said I burned little. Once the first had been recalibrated with my current weight and my "ownzone" test (a polar hrm VO2 cheat equivalent) both watches said I burn very low calories while working out.

I had other lab tests it turns out, for me at least, that my body is very "efficient", and, as a result, I burn less than a lot of computers estimate.

One physio suggested that this may be because the computers estimate your calorie burns based on the body make-up up (that is to say lean mass/fat/water/bone composition) of a healthy individual and then extrapolate the calorie burn based on my weight - since muscle is more metabolically active than fat (ie a gram of muscle uses more energy/burns more calories than a gram of fat) thus- if the computer estimates that a person who is 300lbs has the same body composition percentage wise as someone who is 150lbs, then the computer assumes that the 300lb person also has twice as much muscle and therefore a higher calorie burn per minute (but the same calorie burn per minute per pound of body weight) .. However, in reality, the 300lb person may or may not have more muscle but if they are truly "overfat" their muscle ratio will be smaller and thus their calories burned per minute per pound of body weight will be lower than those of the healthy/ non "overfat" individual. My advice, don't trust fitbit's calorie burn estimates

DanceswithWow

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nomorearmflab

it seems like every one else has answered your question but I will throw in my 2 cents.

1. The tape measure is way more important than the scale. Hell, my weight fluctuates in the 20 minutes it takes me to shower!

2. Since you are weight training so frequently ( I might suggesting adding some more rest time) your body weight is going to jump around a lot. I weighed 145 when I was rock climbing 5 days a week but I had lost a lot of body fat, And was wearing smaller sizes. Again, Tape measure > Scale.

3. If you are /really/ only eating 1200 cals a day, I might up it a bit. I think it is really important to net to at least 1400 a day, especially if your body needs those nutrients to repair the damage done by workouts and stuff.

Give yourself a breather. Take time AWAY from the damn scale. Put it all away for at least 2-3 weeks and then come back to it. I am sure you will feel better without the constant number hanging over your head.

sticky130

TDEE without taking exercise into consideration 1963 so I'm eating 20% under this (still the same calories as 35% below TDEE with exercise 3 times a week) So exactly the same.

I do have to disagree here. TDEE without exercise is NEAT (it is what MFP uses) with this you eat exercise calories back. TDEE is with exercise and you do not eat them back, you eat the same amount daily. TDEE- 20% is cconsidered very aggressive, its fine but is for people with large amounts of weight to lose 75+lbs. The number may workout the same in the end but overall the 2 methods are very different and down the road these number change and the math can get messed up.

Not heard of NEAT, that's new to me, I have MFP set at sedentary, I used the IIFYM calculator just to work out my TDEE. It lets you do it with & without exercise) My Fitbit tells me what I burn everyday and I enter anything manually into there, it already knows what I walk a day so just my lifting. I'm in the camp of a lot to lose (:grumble:) so that's why I'm taking advantage of being able to lose more now.

As you say you can hide any loses over 4-6 weeks and I've just figured out I've only been lifting since the end of April/beginning of May and I had to have two weeks off due to injury! That's netted me 5 weeks in total :ohwell: It seems so much longer........

It looks like I'm just an impatient moo!

In fact thinking about it If I've lost about 3lbs in the weeks since I started lifting and put on 1lb in muscle in that time, that is just under 1lb a week net not including the water I've gained. Crikey when I look at it like that what the heck am I moaning about!!!

In my head I just though with all the effort I'd been putting in I'd be dropping 2lb a week like clockwork, but it doesn't work like that.

I'm glad I've spoken with you, its made me think outside the box and to keep the faith. :flowerforyou:

sticky130

I consume about 1500-1600 a day and do about 350-400 cals from lifting and fitbit activity so I'm netting around 1200 a day which I feel is a bit low to be honest!

I think I'll just go and change it back, lol!

FITBIT WAY WAY WAY WAY SERIOUSLY OVERESTIMATES my calorie burn so perhaps it overestimates yours as well.

I have 2 different heart rate monitor watches- one which used to say I burned a lot of calories and the other said I burned little. Once the first had been recalibrated with my current weight and my "ownzone" test (a polar hrm VO2 cheat equivalent) both watches said I burn very low calories while working out.

I had other lab tests it turns out, for me at least, that my body is very "efficient", and, as a result, I burn less than a lot of computers estimate.

One physio suggested that this may be because the computers estimate your calorie burns based on the body make-up up (that is to say lean mass/fat/water/bone composition) of a healthy individual and then extrapolate the calorie burn based on my weight - since muscle is more metabolically active than fat (ie a gram of muscle uses more energy/burns more calories than a gram of fat) thus- if the computer estimates that a person who is 300lbs has the same body composition percentage wise as someone who is 150lbs, then the computer assumes that the 300lb person also has twice as much muscle and therefore a higher calorie burn per minute (but the same calorie burn per minute per pound of body weight) .. However, in reality, the 300lb person may or may not have more muscle but if they are truly "overfat" their muscle ratio will be smaller and thus their calories burned per minute per pound of body weight will be lower than those of the healthy/ non "overfat" individual. My advice, don't trust fitbit's calorie burn estimates

I totally agree with you and never just trust one answer! I use the Katch-McArdle one as this allows for fat%


I looked several different calculators online for activity and they were all different!! But all within about 50 calories of one another. I did feel that Fitbit was a bit high so I always log my lifting time in a bit short to try to compensate. My overall deficit is averaging around 750 a day, over the week, (I hope that makes sense) so I assumed that that this little bit of difference won't make much of an impact?

Kargicq

Other people have said everything I was going to say, and in far more detail. Just another voice saying "Trust the numbers!"

I mainly do cardio, with only a bit of resistance training. I have periods of whole weeks (or longer) where my weight doesn't move at all, or even increases for a while. But I've been at this six months now, and over a long enough time, my loss catches up to within 10% of the MFP predictions.

I log my weight in Libra, a free Android app -- https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.cachapa.libra
It does a lovely job of smoothing out fluctuations and predicting trends. Perhaps worth a go if you're a fan of data!

sticky130

I log my weight in Libra, a free Android app -- https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.cachapa.libra
It does a lovely job of smoothing out fluctuations and predicting trends. Perhaps worth a go if you're a fan of data!

Ha Ha! How can you tell that I'm a fan of data!! I'm a nightmare and way too analytical with everything in case you haven't guessed:embarassed: !

Maybe it's a good job I work in finance......