Ketogenic diets

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I have PCOS as well, and have found that LC/HF diets (not unlike Keto, but I haven't specifically sought out being in Ketosis) work very, very well. I actually just got my insulin number back after having let too many carbs in general and too much sugar back in, and it's higher now than when I was low carb, but hadn't yet started Metformin (and that's with the maximum dose). With LC/HF + Metformin, my insulin was down to 12, from 18/19. When my insulin gets that high (and I'm guessing the limit is around 15 for me), I stop losing weight, but when it's down under my cutoff, I can lose weight without much effort, and have lost somewhere around 20lb with the combination of LC/HF and Metformin since I started it again late last summer.

I've found it to be the most sustainable of diets, as well, because the lower carb and no sugar drastically reduces carb cravings, and basing meals around fat and protein allow me to eat less food and feel satiated (making staying in a deficit very easy). And yes, it's a lifestyle change, if I didn't think that before today's doctor appointment, I certainly do now. My body can't handle a lot in the way of sugar and starchy carbs, as it so readily demonstrated, so I'll be maintaining it for the foreseeable future.

And no, nutritional Ketosis is not dangerous. Ketoacidosis is, but that's the Keto version of hyperglycemia and generally only happens in situations where the body's ability to make insulin is deficient or shut down, such as in Type I and some Type II Diabetics, and even in those cases, it's quite rare (there are quite a number of Type I Diabetics who use a Ketogenic diet to minimize the amount of insulin they have to take, and are very successful on it).

Ketosis does happen in states of fasting, so yes, you'd be in Ketosis during your fast periods if you intermittent fast. However, Ketogenic diets are intended to keep you in that state of Ketosis, even after meals.

Here are some tips, though:

1. Give it no less than a month before declaring failure. Low carb and very low carb diets have an induction period of up to two weeks (depending on the number and type of carbs you were eating previously, as well as how your body reacts to said carbs). During it, you will feel like crap. This is known as "keto flu" or "carb flu," because of its flu like symptoms. They will go away, however, and you'll start feeling better after a couple of weeks. Too many people, though, will try it for a week, feel miserable, and stop, declaring it an utter failure. Keto doesn't work like that.

2. Don't fear fat. If you want Keto to be a success, you absolutely must learn to eat fat. Low carb, low fat, high protein diets are a recipe for failure usually, is not a ketogenic diet, and can be downright dangerous if not carefully monitored by someone who knows what they're doing (see also: rabbit starvation). Carbs and fat are fuel, and fat is required for nutrient absorption and hormone regulation. It is also the cornerstone of the successful ketogenic diet, because it is what satiates us and it becomes the primary fuel source. Ketones, after all, are the byproduct of burning fat.

3. Don't worry about calorie deficit during the induction period. The induction period is stressful enough on your body, I don't recommend adding to it by enforcing a calorie restriction. Eat enough food to feel satisfied and learn how to navigate the diet, then once you've gotten through the induction phase, you can make sure you're not eating too much. Additionally, the ketogenic diet usually has the opposite effect on people -- you end up having to track to make sure you're eating enough food. Eating fat often feels like you're eating 5000 calories when you're actually only eating something like 1200.

YOU. I like you.

seashel812

I am pro-keto. But everyone has to fine what works for them. I started a ketogenic diet on 01.12.2014, and have since lost 56.5lbs. I find it incredibly easy and physically, I feel AMAZING. I had my cholesterol, triglycerides, etc. checked six weeks into this change and all my levels were good. I hope to have them checked again in the next few months. It is the easiest way of eating that I have ever followed. It absolutely works for me. I love it.

I'm curious--why do you find keto the easiest way of eating that you have ever followed?

Because when I just restricted my calories I was hungry ALL THE TIME. I never felt satisfied. Following the ketogenic diet, I feel more satisfied and full. I am just not as hungry. When I solely restricted my calories, I felt the need to cheat all the time, and I found myself binge eating a lot. My weight fluctuated constantly, and with keto my weight is consistent as hell. It just works for me.

That's interesting, because I've noticed the same thing about carb restriction. I feel more satiated on far less calories eating low carb then I do on just a calorie restricted diet. 1300 calories of low carb is not the same as 1300 calories of high carb. On one I'm full, on the other I'm starving.

xToniBx

Cool, hope it works. Im on Raspberry Ketone and Detox Colon Cleanse. I used it few times but im going to start this week, just had two today and keep having them, hope i loose quick but exercise and try eat healthy too then hope it does work x

I will try to be as respectful as possible here....You do realize that Raspberry ketones do NOTHING for you at all.....and a detox colon cleanse? Why not just eat more fiber? And if you say it is to get rid of toxins please explain these toxins and why your liver is not getting rid of them....as that is the livers function, is it not?

Then why on Ebay reviews and Amazon, most of them say it works and it helped them loose weight after 3-4 weeks. Some said lost 1 stone in 3 weeks and other says 9lb in 2 weeks. It does work if you eat healthy and do exercise while you have them. I've notice i lost abit since i've been having them. Im still having the tablets for a month or few weeks

yarwell

have you been checking the keto sticks to confirm??

you can get false negatives off ketostix, I have tested blood, breath and urine and don't buy ketostix any more.

yarwell

I had heard somewhere that being in ketosis was dangerous.

That's keto-acidosis where very high levels of ketones (several times what you get by dieting) combined with high blood sugar and insulin can lead to a metabolic crisis with low blood pH. This is a complication of Type 1 diabetes, and not an issue with nutritional ketosis.

Ketosis is the natural way of fuelling the brain in the absence of carbohydrate intake, during a famine for example (historically).

EvgeniZyntx

Along with managing your carbs (either by a keto diet or a LCHF diet) you might consider this as relevant to PCOS:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1307008-slow-metabolism-maybe-related-to-pcos-or-insulin-resistance

Consider that the condition might require a higher "deficit" generated by being active or from a small increase in exercise.

UsedToBeHusky

Cool, hope it works. Im on Raspberry Ketone and Detox Colon Cleanse. I used it few times but im going to start this week, just had two today and keep having them, hope i loose quick but exercise and try eat healthy too then hope it does work x

I will try to be as respectful as possible here....You do realize that Raspberry ketones do NOTHING for you at all.....and a detox colon cleanse? Why not just eat more fiber? And if you say it is to get rid of toxins please explain these toxins and why your liver is not getting rid of them....as that is the livers function, is it not?

Then why on Ebay reviews and Amazon, most of them say it works and it helped them loose weight after 3-4 weeks. Some said lost 1 stone in 3 weeks and other says 9lb in 2 weeks. It does work if you eat healthy and do exercise while you have them. I've notice i lost abit since i've been having them. Im still having the tablets for a month or few weeks

It is not uncommon for company's to write their own reviews on websites. Typically, those products recommend that they be used in conjunction with healthy diet and exercise. Ultimately, those things are just placebos. But if that is the route you want to go, best of luck with it.

Dragonwolf

Along with managing your carbs (either by a keto diet or a LCHF diet) you might consider this as relevant to PCOS:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1307008-slow-metabolism-maybe-related-to-pcos-or-insulin-resistance

Consider that the condition might require a higher "deficit" generated by being active or from a small increase in exercise.

That probably doesn't surprise most of us who have been dealing with it for a long time (though it now does give us something to explain why we have to do some pretty crazy deficits to get anywhere). Of course, the practical issue with this is that it's as much hell to sustain on a typical diet as it is for someone who doesn't have a suppressed BMR. I know I've done the very low calorie thing before going low carb, and I wanted to gnaw my arm off even at 1800-2000 calories, the few days I managed to eat only about 800-1000, I quickly got to a point where I couldn't really function at all.

It does explain why my natural caloric set point is quite a bit lower than I expected when going low carb, though. It'd be interesting to see more studies on this, such as how/whether Metformin affects it (because it increases insulin sensitivity), and if going low-carb/high-fat does anything to help raise BMR (by not causing drastic insulin spikes to begin with), or if it's just making it easier, because of satiety effects.

Thanks for the link! :drinker:

EvgeniZyntx

I'm not sure Metformin affects BMR. A quick scan of the lit. provides at least one study that shows not change (see graph and discussion.)

http://download.springer.com/static/pdf/701/art%3A10.1007%2Fs001250051172.pdf?auth66=1402060987_6f305b242fc75207a67cf5c4daa6a00b&ext=.pdf

It suggests it is due to satiety.
Would suggest a more complete review, maybe later in the week I might have a moment.

Dragonwolf

I'm not sure Metformin affects BMR. A quick scan of the lit. provides at least one study that shows not change (see graph and discussion.)

http://download.springer.com/static/pdf/701/art%3A10.1007%2Fs001250051172.pdf?auth66=1402060987_6f305b242fc75207a67cf5c4daa6a00b&ext=.pdf

It suggests it is due to satiety.
Would suggest a more complete review, maybe later in the week I might have a moment.

Assuming, then, that increased insulin sensitivity doesn't raise BMR, it begs the question -- what causes the suppressed metabolism? While hypothyroid and Hashimoto's are not uncommon among women with PCOS, most of us test normal on that front, and the study you linked shows a pretty heavy correlation between IR and suppressed BMR. Perhaps if one doesn't cause the other, maybe they have the same or similar underlying cause? It's definitely intriguing and I look forward to seeing what more comes of this study (and the discussions on it).

hookilau

Because when I just restricted my calories I was hungry ALL THE TIME. I never felt satisfied. Following the ketogenic diet, I feel more satisfied and full. I am just not as hungry. When I solely restricted my calories, I felt the need to cheat all the time, and I found myself binge eating a lot. My weight fluctuated constantly, and with keto my weight is consistent as hell. It just works for me.

This is also why I find it quite sustainable, well...that and a T2D dx :blushing:

janelleovunda

I have been on a ketogenic diet for about four weeks now and have had good weight loss. I think where I have the hardest time is knowing the nest foods to eat. I would love to have some friends that are doing this same diet. It is good for motivation and support.

cdn_beaver

I've been on keto for coming up on two years and I've lost over 85lbs in the process. Once I became keto adapted (about 4 weeks in) I had never felt better. So much energy, no bloat, no carb crashes, rarely ever feel hungry, etc. All this even when I was 250+lbs. Two years later I'm still losing (much slower now but it's not a race) and still feel amazing. Water is key when you're in ketosis so make sure you're drinking 96oz a day.

jenika127

Keto is the only thing that has ever worked for me! After struggling my whole life with my weight I was finally referred to an endocrinologist and she put me on a keto diet. It has done amazing things for me. It has reversed my very high insulin levels and made almost all of my pcos symptoms go away. (With the help of Spironolactone, and I used metfomin in the beginning but no longer need to) Best of all I have lost 58lbs with keto and calorie restriction and I am still losing. For years I had a personal trainer and was very strict with what I ate but it never worked, the trainer was baffled by the fact that I didn't lose weight. I think he thought I would sneak cheeseburgers and fries every night or something lol. But the low fat diet was just making my pcos and insulin levels worse. I've spend a lot of time on pubmed going through medical studies and clinical trials and the evidence in support of very low carb diets for pcos is astounding. Everyone is different but for me it took being very strict with myself and realizing that because of pcos it was just going to be a bit harder and I had to be a bit stricter than the average person. Plus you have to want it bad enough. With keto, calorie restriction and exercise I am a much happier girl Hope you give it a try and it works as good for you as it did for me.

(The first two weeks where not that fun but after I was keto adapted it was great)
p.s. my bf has now gone on it and refuses to go back to his old ways of eating, it has fixed his tummy troubles, gas, acid reflux and energy levels.

nicsflyingcircus

JoRocka wrote: »

One side note... it's far harder to "cheat" in Keto.

On Primal you could be all like "It's 80/20" and still be a legitimate Primal eater, but in Keto, once your blood meter or Keto stick says "0" you're officially kicked out of the keto club for a couple weeks until your body produces Ketones again.

So... it's really hard to cheat.

interesting- I have seen people talk about fluxing in and out of keto over the course of a few days- which always raised my eyebrows- I was under the impression it took a little while to GET to keto- and it was as you say, once your out it takes time to get back to it.

have you been checking the keto sticks to confirm??

You can pop in and out of ketosis, but to be fully fat-adapted is what takes weeks, and that is what you lose when you go too high on the carbs.

As for keto sticks, meh. They are only good at the beginning, when you spill excess ketones into your urine. Once you are properly fat-adapted, keto strips will actually give you a negative.

blktngldhrt

Veil5577 wrote: »

I had heard somewhere that being in ketosis was dangerous. I used to use keto sticks, which were great for motivation because I thought being in ketosis meant that the body was burning fat? Any thoughts or ideas? I'd like to buy more sticks and try that again.

Ketosis is not dangerous. It's also not a diet to be on without doing your homework,imo.

blktngldhrt

JoRocka wrote: »

One side note... it's far harder to "cheat" in Keto.

On Primal you could be all like "It's 80/20" and still be a legitimate Primal eater, but in Keto, once your blood meter or Keto stick says "0" you're officially kicked out of the keto club for a couple weeks until your body produces Ketones again.

So... it's really hard to cheat.

interesting- I have seen people talk about fluxing in and out of keto over the course of a few days- which always raised my eyebrows- I was under the impression it took a little while to GET to keto- and it was as you say, once your out it takes time to get back to it.

have you been checking the keto sticks to confirm??

I've gone off and gotten back into ketosis within a couple of days. Cyclical keto.

blktngldhrt

I'm pro keto. I've been eating lchf since October to treat my reactive hypoglycemia (it was either that or medication) and now have steady blood glucose levels.

blktngldhrt

Dragonwolf wrote: »

I have PCOS as well, and have found that LC/HF diets (not unlike Keto, but I haven't specifically sought out being in Ketosis) work very, very well. I actually just got my insulin number back after having let too many carbs in general and too much sugar back in, and it's higher now than when I was low carb, but hadn't yet started Metformin (and that's with the maximum dose). With LC/HF + Metformin, my insulin was down to 12, from 18/19. When my insulin gets that high (and I'm guessing the limit is around 15 for me), I stop losing weight, but when it's down under my cutoff, I can lose weight without much effort, and have lost somewhere around 20lb with the combination of LC/HF and Metformin since I started it again late last summer.

I've found it to be the most sustainable of diets, as well, because the lower carb and no sugar drastically reduces carb cravings, and basing meals around fat and protein allow me to eat less food and feel satiated (making staying in a deficit very easy). And yes, it's a lifestyle change, if I didn't think that before today's doctor appointment, I certainly do now. My body can't handle a lot in the way of sugar and starchy carbs, as it so readily demonstrated, so I'll be maintaining it for the foreseeable future.

And no, nutritional Ketosis is not dangerous. Ketoacidosis is, but that's the Keto version of hyperglycemia and generally only happens in situations where the body's ability to make insulin is deficient or shut down, such as in Type I and some Type II Diabetics, and even in those cases, it's quite rare (there are quite a number of Type I Diabetics who use a Ketogenic diet to minimize the amount of insulin they have to take, and are very successful on it).

Ketosis does happen in states of fasting, so yes, you'd be in Ketosis during your fast periods if you intermittent fast. However, Ketogenic diets are intended to keep you in that state of Ketosis, even after meals.

Here are some tips, though:

1. Give it no less than a month before declaring failure. Low carb and very low carb diets have an induction period of up to two weeks (depending on the number and type of carbs you were eating previously, as well as how your body reacts to said carbs). During it, you will feel like crap. This is known as "keto flu" or "carb flu," because of its flu like symptoms. They will go away, however, and you'll start feeling better after a couple of weeks. Too many people, though, will try it for a week, feel miserable, and stop, declaring it an utter failure. Keto doesn't work like that.

2. Don't fear fat. If you want Keto to be a success, you absolutely must learn to eat fat. Low carb, low fat, high protein diets are a recipe for failure usually, is not a ketogenic diet, and can be downright dangerous if not carefully monitored by someone who knows what they're doing (see also: rabbit starvation). Carbs and fat are fuel, and fat is required for nutrient absorption and hormone regulation. It is also the cornerstone of the successful ketogenic diet, because it is what satiates us and it becomes the primary fuel source. Ketones, after all, are the byproduct of burning fat.

3. Don't worry about calorie deficit during the induction period. The induction period is stressful enough on your body, I don't recommend adding to it by enforcing a calorie restriction. Eat enough food to feel satisfied and learn how to navigate the diet, then once you've gotten through the induction phase, you can make sure you're not eating too much. Additionally, the ketogenic diet usually has the opposite effect on people -- you end up having to track to make sure you're eating enough food. Eating fat often feels like you're eating 5000 calories when you're actually only eating something like 1200.

+1

Now I don't have to type!

elleykat

I have PCOS (and obese) and spent a year and a half trying to conceive, on various drugs (metformin, clomiphene/Clomid), etc etc. Finally I switched my OB/Gyn and the new one suggested a low-carb diet to help with weight loss, which in turn would help with my PCOS -- as many women with PCOS have issues with their insulin receptors, a low carb lifestyle tends to work out better for us for weight loss. Started Atkins and just 2 months later I'd lost 20 lbs and had to quit Phase 1 because I was pregnant!

Losing 5-10% of your total bodyweight can improve PCOS in most women, and low carb certainly worked for me (even when Metformin didn't, though I possibly didn't stick with it for long enough - but why take a medicine that makes you feel like garbage when you can just eat more protein/veggies/fat and less net carbs?). Sadly I started eating THE WORLD when I was breastfeeding and gained back almost the whole 20 lbs I'd lost pre-pregnancy (only gained a total of about 5 lbs during pregnancy, but again, obese so that was the goal for me). Now I'm working on losing 100 lbs (down 8 so far, whee) and we're looking to start trying to conceive again in about 6 months or so.

Best of luck to you. PCOS can be such a b****.