TDEE exercise level question..??

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

DanaHerro

I started by calculating based off SEDENTARY - 20% hands down worked every time. And I was STILL using that even though I was working out 6-7 hours a week religiously.
Once I got to like the last 20 lbs, I switched to the lightly active - 20%

heybales

I have a question for those who do the Tdee-20% method...I understand that your exercise is calculated in the settings so for instance I would be back working out 4 times a week for 30-40 min each time so that's considered 1-3 hours a week...is there no option for the level like as in lightly active, moderate etc..?? How can they determine what's needed without knowing your level. Just the hours wouldn't seem to be enough...??

You are exactly correct.

Is 1 hr of walking the same as 1 hr of running as 1 hr of lifting?

Nope.

Might try the spreadsheet on my profile page to help get best estimates.
Stick on Simple Setup and Progress tabs.
Fill in your memorized stats, put in your measurements if you don't have them for better BMR estimate, look at your weekly activity as far as workout type and time, merely a few choices that make a big difference in calorie burn.
Get your TDEE estimate, and a suggested goal amount, because if enough to lose, could go bigger, could be less though.
And macro suggestions.
Log the stats on the Progress tab.
After a month of eating at that level, visit the TDEE calc on that Progress tab, and get new TDEE based on results to better hone in.

usmcmp

Putting down old school, proven techniques is just a given. It's expected. That's what you add in as filler; as an afterthought. It shouldn't be what you lead in with.

You do know that 60% - 70% of all weight lost by the most successful of dieters is regained after 5 years right? You do know that around 30% of the population is on a diet at all times and obesity is still growing right? You do know that there is no single weight loss study ever showing more than a 7% average body weight loss over 5 years right?

The old school techniques are very far from proven. I'm explaining the science behind why old school techniques are wrong not putting them down for s***s and grins.

And that has what, exactly, to do with whether it's impossible to estimate calorie expenditure...?

It's clinical evidence that traditional methods to estimate energy requirements are flawed.

Saying that most people regain their weight or never manage to lose weight is not proof that energy estimations are flawed. It's proof that they eat more calories than their body needs.

jonnythan

Putting down old school, proven techniques is just a given. It's expected. That's what you add in as filler; as an afterthought. It shouldn't be what you lead in with.

You do know that 60% - 70% of all weight lost by the most successful of dieters is regained after 5 years right? You do know that around 30% of the population is on a diet at all times and obesity is still growing right? You do know that there is no single weight loss study ever showing more than a 7% average body weight loss over 5 years right?

The old school techniques are very far from proven. I'm explaining the science behind why old school techniques are wrong not putting them down for s***s and grins.

And that has what, exactly, to do with whether it's impossible to estimate calorie expenditure...?

It's clinical evidence that traditional methods to estimate energy requirements are flawed.

No, it's not. How does that even make sense?

How on earth do you go from "most weight loss is eventually regained" to "calorie estimation is so imprecise as to be useless"?

usmcmp

Where did I ever say it was impossible? I'm just showing the science behind why it's not as simple as monitoring caloric intake which those studies establish very well. Not everyone can follow the formula you prescribed. Since 36% of the population is obese which accounts for over half the people who are overweight the effects of leptin on BMR are critical to understand when someone has to figure out why they need to keep dropping their intake beyond what "they should have to" or what's within MFP guidelines.

Some people what to understand why... You might not, great. Good for you.

You are just proving what I said. People need to monitor what their intake vs weight loss is over the long term. A calculator can't tell everyone what their BMR and NEAT are, but monitoring intake compared to weight loss over months would give them a good idea of what their body's calorie requirements are.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/metabolic-rate-overview.html

If they suspect they have a hormonal imbalance that's causing them to not lose fat they should see a doctor to have their hormone levels checked. Most of the issues work themselves out as people eat less and move more.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/you-are-not-different.html

jonnythan

Where did I ever say it was impossible? I'm just showing the science behind why it's not as simple as monitoring caloric intake which those studies establish very well. Not everyone can follow the formula you prescribed. Since 36% of the population is obese which accounts for over half the people who are overweight the effects of leptin on BMR are critical to understand when someone has to figure out why they need to keep dropping their intake beyond what "they should have to" or what's within MFP guidelines.

Some people what to understand why... You might not, great. Good for you.

You are just proving what I said. People need to monitor what their intake vs weight loss is over the long term. A calculator can't tell everyone what their BMR and NEAT are, but monitoring intake compared to weight loss over months would give them a good idea of what their body's calorie requirements are.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/metabolic-rate-overview.html

If they suspect they have a hormonal imbalance that's causing them to not lose fat they should see a doctor to have their hormone levels checked. Most of the issues work themselves out as people eat less and move more.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/you-are-not-different.html

No worries. I'm sure one of his unpublished e-books that he's marketing to publishers contains The Method for long-term weight loss.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

usmcmp

You are just proving what I said. People need to monitor what their intake vs weight loss is over the long term. A calculator can't tell everyone what their BMR and NEAT are, but monitoring intake compared to weight loss over months would give them a good idea of what their body's calorie requirements are.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/metabolic-rate-overview.html

If they suspect they have a hormonal imbalance that's causing them to not lose fat they should see a doctor to have their hormone levels checked. Most of the issues work themselves out as people eat less and move more.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/you-are-not-different.html

You didn't read any of those studies did you? Guess you're already as smart as you can be on the matter, 'eh?

P.S. Those websites articles are a joke without any studies or references. Here's one quote:

Okay, I offered my input on how people should be aware of their intake long term and compare it to what they see on the scale. I will also add that what they see in the mirror and how they feel should help them determine if their intake is appropriate for their goals (maintain or lose weight).

Now tell us your revolutionary plan that has nothing to do with tracking the trend of intake versus weight long-term.

sijomial

btente - you have completely hijacked this thread and been no help to the OP at all.

Why don't you start your own thread and take this argument elsewhere?

Unknown

This content has been removed.

heybales

You are just proving what I said. People need to monitor what their intake vs weight loss is over the long term. A calculator can't tell everyone what their BMR and NEAT are, but monitoring intake compared to weight loss over months would give them a good idea of what their body's calorie requirements are.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/metabolic-rate-overview.html

If they suspect they have a hormonal imbalance that's causing them to not lose fat they should see a doctor to have their hormone levels checked. Most of the issues work themselves out as people eat less and move more.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/you-are-not-different.html

You didn't read any of those studies did you? Guess you're already as smart as you can be on the matter, 'eh?

P.S. Those websites articles are a joke without any studies or references. Here's one example:

"Gender also affect RMR. Bad news for the ladies, on average men have a higher BMR than females. Some of this is simply a consequence of having more LBM."

Not true. Gender has no impact on BMR it is simply LBM differences. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/82/5/941.full#F1

Well, the nature of those studies showing a difference is for EQUAL LBM, the females have lower BMR than males.

So the Katch and Cunningham BMR/RMR formulas that only use LBM and based on studies of male and female, are actually going to have women generally lower than the results, men above.

And actually, race too, African-American heritage has lower too for same LBM.

All because in general, the metabolically active organs are smaller.

usmcmp

You are just proving what I said. People need to monitor what their intake vs weight loss is over the long term. A calculator can't tell everyone what their BMR and NEAT are, but monitoring intake compared to weight loss over months would give them a good idea of what their body's calorie requirements are.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/metabolic-rate-overview.html

If they suspect they have a hormonal imbalance that's causing them to not lose fat they should see a doctor to have their hormone levels checked. Most of the issues work themselves out as people eat less and move more.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/you-are-not-different.html

You didn't read any of those studies did you? Guess you're already as smart as you can be on the matter, 'eh?

P.S. Those websites articles are a joke without any studies or references. Here's one example:

"Gender also affect RMR. Bad news for the ladies, on average men have a higher BMR than females. Some of this is simply a consequence of having more LBM."

Not true. Gender has no impact on BMR it is simply LBM differences. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/82/5/941.full#F1

From your link: The relation between circulating T4 and residual BMR was highly significant in the men.
So testosterone impacts BMR.

Your link also talks about something you said earlier, except that they say the opposite of what you said: There was no significant association between residual variation in BMR and residual variation in circulating leptin concentrations.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

jonnythan

Btente, have you ever actually helped anyone lose weight? You seem to have zero interest in helping the OP, and you're focusing on minutiae while ignoring the big picture.

Do you have any actual advice? I have yet to see any.

usmcmp

From your link: The relation between circulating T4 and residual BMR was highly significant in the men.
So testosterone impacts BMR.

Relation is not causal. Testosterone obviously helps build lean mass so even women with higher levels of testosterone will have higher LBM on average.

Your link also talks about something you said earlier, except that they say the opposite of what you said: There was no significant association between residual variation in BMR and residual variation in circulating leptin concentrations.

Again do you read any of the studies I've linked? My claim specifically said formerly obese people and it's specifically dealing with changes in body state. People have various levels of circulating leptin and that is what's not causing any drop in BMR. But if you drop leptin levels in obese patients relative to their baseline levels their BMR will markedly drop.

And if you help make sure their leptin doesn't drop....? That's part of healthy weight management anyway. Getting enough sleep, reducing stress, not over eating and eating a balanced diet.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

jonnythan

Oh lord.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

usmcmp

And if you help make sure their leptin doesn't drop....? That's part of healthy weight management anyway. Getting enough sleep, reducing stress, not over eating and eating a balanced diet.

Obviously you've still never researched this topic or studies I've referenced. There is absolutely no way to prevent leptin dropping in an obese patient who loses substantial weight without synthetic injections. Dr. Rudy Leibel is an expert and one of the discoverers of leptin I suggest you look into his work.

I did read all the links you posted. None of them proved that you can't increase leptin levels, just that when you increase them people maintained or lost weight.

I also found a study that Leibel did with another doctor named Rosenbaum. In the study they proved that if someone drops 10% of their weight they would have to reduce calorie intake almost double. The problems I saw with their study are that they corrected their numbers for body composition. That means that they recalculated the data to factor out the loss of lean mass in the subjects. They also added in compounding factors like having the subjects start smoking. Their study group was also very small. They also proved the subjects could maintain weight short term when monitored.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199503093321001#t=articleMethods

Of course you have to reduce calories when your body weight drops. You have to reduce calories even more when your lean mass drops. Unfortunately when you just diet you can't pick where your body uses the energy from, but there are ways to reduce the amount of lean mass lost. Although I suspect you knew that already.

heybales

And actually, race too, African-American heritage has lower too for same LBM.

All because in general, the metabolically active organs are smaller.

I'm going to have to see a study to back that up...

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/83/5/1062.full.pdf

Small organs with a high metabolic rate explain lower resting energy expenditure in African American than in white adults

heybales

Well outside OP's question, but since discussion went well off track way back...


Discussion of their study regarding metabolic efficiency improvement and lack of leptin when fat goes down, and feedback loop that causes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i_cmltmQ6A


More recent study that shows perhaps their conclusion it's for life is a tad exaggerated. Perhaps because they did VLCD in order to lose that 10% of body weight fast to get on to other aspects of their study.
Had they done it slower with smaller deficit, perhaps not as bad.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales/view/reduced-metabolism-tdee-beyond-expected-from-weight-loss-616251


And they account for LBM exactly for the reason that when you lose that in diet, you will of course need to eat less, same as the fact when lighter you burn less moving daily too. But account for that and factor it out - still left with changes the body makes.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

jofjltncb6

In...

...because just in.