Extra calories on lifting days?

Options
24

Replies

  • sculli123
    sculli123 Posts: 1,221 Member
    Options
    Wouldn't that make the Mfp system better than tdee?

    Use MFP but customize the numbers manually based on TDEE. MFP gives you generic macros which might not fit what you're trying to do - ie. you might want to do lower carbs than MFP recommneds and then you can adjust the numbers rather than the cookie cutter numbers MFP automatically sets.
  • sculli123
    sculli123 Posts: 1,221 Member
    Options


    She said don't expect to put on 15 lbs of muscle [without putting on some fat].
    That would really depend on the time frame. If the time frame is a number of years, it's do-able. If they're talking about doing it in a couple of months it's not. Also what if OP is a growing teenager? We don't know that from their post but if they are they could put on 15 pounds just by growing a few inches taller.
  • CleanBulking
    CleanBulking Posts: 12 Member
    Options


    She said don't expect to put on 15 lbs of muscle [without putting on some fat].
    That would really depend on the time frame. If the time frame is a number of years, it's do-able. If they're talking about doing it in a couple of months it's not. Also what if OP is a growing teenager? We don't know that from their post but if they are they could put on 15 pounds just by growing a few inches taller.

    Sorry for being unclear. I was thinking of it taking at least a year to gain the 15 lbs. I'm 30 so very little chance of getting taller at this point!
  • Chris_Pierce
    Chris_Pierce Posts: 267 Member
    Options
    Wouldn't that make the Mfp system better than tdee?

    Use MFP but customize the numbers manually based on TDEE. MFP gives you generic macros which might not fit what you're trying to do - ie. you might want to do lower carbs than MFP recommneds and then you can adjust the numbers rather than the cookie cutter numbers MFP automatically sets.

    Well yeah, the mfp marco %'s are wrong and imho a dumb way to calculate macros. But what about using TDEE vs daily is better? I'm just starting out, and not ready to bulk yet, but I would think that daily would be better just because you can adjust for extra/less calorie burn.
  • stealthq
    stealthq Posts: 4,298 Member
    Options


    She said don't expect to put on 15 lbs of muscle [without putting on some fat].
    That would really depend on the time frame. If the time frame is a number of years, it's do-able. If they're talking about doing it in a couple of months it's not. Also what if OP is a growing teenager? We don't know that from their post but if they are they could put on 15 pounds just by growing a few inches taller.

    A teenager that needs to do cardio to keep with their kids and has yard work? I suppose it's possible, but highly unlikely.

    ETA: And whose profile says they are a 30yr old male.
  • Chris_Pierce
    Chris_Pierce Posts: 267 Member
    Options


    She said don't expect to put on 15 lbs of muscle [without putting on some fat].
    That would really depend on the time frame. If the time frame is a number of years, it's do-able. If they're talking about doing it in a couple of months it's not. Also what if OP is a growing teenager? We don't know that from their post but if they are they could put on 15 pounds just by growing a few inches taller.

    Sorry for being unclear. I was thinking of it taking at least a year to gain the 15 lbs. I'm 30 so very little chance of getting taller at this point!



    If the 30% number above is correct, then you'd have to gain 50lbs to gain 15 of muscle. For a year, that's a little more than 4 pounds a month. That's almost a pound a week, or an extra 515ish calories a day.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Options
    well. number one thing.

    get it out of your head you're going to add 15 pounds of muscle and no fat. It's just not going to happen.

    secondly
    running and trying to bulk is hard. You're mostly just adding extra food to your diet when it can be difficult to get it all in just from lifting.

    three- clean bulking is practically a waste of time.

    four- what's your maintenance level for calories?

    typically for men you're looking at a 4-500 calorie surplus on top of maintenance calories.

    If you do TDEE_ you not eat back.

    If you do MFP way- then you eat back- if you are losing- only eat bcak 50-75% of your workout calories- if you are bulking- eat back all of them... if not more.

    remember as you gain- the surplus must also go up... I jumped from 2500- to 3000 over siz months and honestly should have been eating closer to 3500 if not more.
    How do you know OP can't add 15 lbs of muscle? Do you know his / her age, background or anything about them? Why do you think clean bulking is a waste of time? I disagree with that totally except for brand new beginner lifters who are very skinny. I would only recommend a 'dirty' bulk for teens or very skinny newbs.

    I feel like you're trying to argue semantics just for the sake of arguing. You and I both know recomp is horribly slow and inefficient and bulking will come with fat gains outside of a few exceptions. It's not a good idea to perpetuate the thought that you can gain a great deal of muscle without gaining some fat. I'ts a reality- if you want to gain appreciable muscle- you're going to need to fuel and eat at a surplus- and that will come with fat gains.

    You're right- if he is a teen- he is going to have great gains with minimal fat. But the reality is muscle growth is hard and requires fat gain with few exceptions. But he's not. so stop picking.

    as far as the clean thing- first of all I don't believe in clean/dirty food. Therefor I do not ascribe those adjectives to bulking or cutting... and traditionally
    Clean bulk =/= eating chicken and broccoli none stop and "clean".
    it means this:
    Clean bulk = min/moderate surplus trying to maximize muscle with minimal muscle gains.
    dirty bulk = huge surplus- little to no regard to fat gains. Most people rarely go this route.

    Specifically why do I think its' a waste? because calories are king- get your macros close and just fill out your day to hit calories. Perfect macros mean absolutely diddley if you don't go over maintenance.

    gummy bears- pb and j- milk- pizza- sushi with oodles of rice- ice cream- bagels- cheese- what ever it takes to round out your day and not leave you feeling like you can't eat for the next three weeks.

    Calorie dense- low volume foods are great for bulking.



    I'm not wrong- could I have been more clear? sure- but I'm not wrong. You're arguing just to argue- it's the end of the week on a Friday- no need for attitude. Want to round out my day without an internet fight- just a waste of time and doesn't help anyone- just want to get my lifts on and do some running and throw back some beersies.
  • sculli123
    sculli123 Posts: 1,221 Member
    Options


    She said don't expect to put on 15 lbs of muscle [without putting on some fat].
    That would really depend on the time frame. If the time frame is a number of years, it's do-able. If they're talking about doing it in a couple of months it's not. Also what if OP is a growing teenager? We don't know that from their post but if they are they could put on 15 pounds just by growing a few inches taller.

    A teenager that needs to do cardio to keep with their kids and has yard work? I suppose it's possible, but highly unlikely.

    ETA: And whose profile says they are a 30yr old male.
    I didn't look deep into OP's background but just saying it's possible under certain circumstances. Maybe not for OP but in the right circumstances it is.
  • lotr4000
    lotr4000 Posts: 25 Member
    Options
    http://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Options
    OP.

    I use a variation on the TDEE method- I do it like MFP does it- but I calculate my own numbers and plug it in myself manually.

    So I went and did 3-4 TDEE calculators- set it at sedentary- take an average of those... for me it's 1900.

    Then for bulking- I added 3-500 calories on that.

    My goal right now is 1600 calories.

    I then add portion of my workouts in to MFP to give me eat back calories.
    When I'm bulking- I eat back ALL calories.
    When I'm cutting- I eat back 50-75% of my calories- gives me some buffer room to make sure I stay in a deficit.

    Although- it seems not many people do this because it seems a bit much for people because it's to fussy.

    I like it because I can control it- I am a dancer and a lifter- and being that not all workouts are created equal- I like having the power to enter them based on perceived rate of effort not just that my lift was 2 hours long.



    so what you really need to know after all that:
    lift progressively
    eat above maintenance at a 3-500 calorie surplus.

    eat big- lift big.
    get all the gainz.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Options


    She said don't expect to put on 15 lbs of muscle [without putting on some fat].
    That would really depend on the time frame. If the time frame is a number of years, it's do-able. If they're talking about doing it in a couple of months it's not. Also what if OP is a growing teenager? We don't know that from their post but if they are they could put on 15 pounds just by growing a few inches taller.

    A teenager that needs to do cardio to keep with their kids and has yard work? I suppose it's possible, but highly unlikely.

    ETA: And whose profile says they are a 30yr old male.
    I didn't look deep into OP's background but just saying it's possible under certain circumstances. Maybe not for OP but in the right circumstances it is.

    It's an exception and not the rule- and nothing about the OP indicated he was that exception.
  • Chris_Pierce
    Chris_Pierce Posts: 267 Member
    Options
    Jorocka, you know a lot of people who use the word "clean" along with the words "food" or "diet" or even "Bulk" aren't talking about calories. They're talking about quality of the food. Gummie bears are great, so is pizza and beer. But the kind that's loaded with unnatural preservatives, dyes, HFCS are not. Just a heads up, it's technically semantics, but I've noticed this a lot in threads that you post in, (I'm not trying to say that the OP is using it one way or another) but I thought I'd finally give you a heads up. I eat "clean" and when i say that I mean that I eat organic produce, grass fed beef, free range chicken and eggs etc. I also drink beer, eat chocolate, pizza, pasta, even :gasp: candy from time to time :D But it's still "clean" food.
    Have a good Friday and an ever better weekend!
  • sculli123
    sculli123 Posts: 1,221 Member
    Options
    [
    I feel like you're trying to argue semantics just for the sake of arguing. You and I both know recomp is horribly slow and inefficient and bulking will come with fat gains outside of a few exceptions. It's not a good idea to perpetuate the thought that you can gain a great deal of muscle without gaining some fat. I'ts a reality- if you want to gain appreciable muscle- you're going to need to fuel and eat at a surplus- and that will come with fat gains.
    OP didn’t give a time frame for the 15 lbs. If he does it slow he can do it without getting fat.

    You're right- if he is a teen- he is going to have great gains with minimal fat. But the reality is muscle growth is hard and requires fat gain with few exceptions. But he's not. so stop picking.
    Fair enough but I didn’t have enough info about his age to say it’s IMPOSSIBLE.

    as far as the clean thing- first of all I don't believe in clean/dirty food. Therefor I do not ascribe those adjectives to bulking or cutting... and traditionally
    Clean bulk =/= eating chicken and broccoli none stop and "clean".
    it means this:
    Clean bulk = min/moderate surplus trying to maximize muscle with minimal muscle gains.
    dirty bulk = huge surplus- little to no regard to fat gains. Most people rarely go this route.
    I don’t believe in clean or dirty foods either. I share the same definition as you on what a clean bulk is. YOU said a clean bulk was a waste of time. This I don’t agree on. I do it every year.

    Specifically why do I think its' a waste? because calories are king- get your macros close and just fill out your day to hit calories. Perfect macros mean absolutely diddley if you don't go over maintenance.
    We already established part of a clean bulk is going over your macros. You’re contradicting yourself.
    gummy bears- pb and j- milk- pizza- sushi with oodles of rice- ice cream- bagels- cheese- what ever it takes to round out your day and not leave you feeling like you can't eat for the next three weeks.

    Calorie dense- low volume foods are great for bulking.
    I'm not wrong- could I have been more clear? sure- but I'm not wrong. You're arguing just to argue- it's the end of the week on a Friday- no need for attitude. Want to round out my day without an internet fight- just a waste of time and doesn't help anyone- just want to get my lifts on and do some running and throw back some beersies.
    I don’t care what one eats for food but the macros and calories matter. There’s a big difference from going 500 over maintainance than 2000 over maintainance. I don’t have attitude I just don’t agree with what you’re saying and know tons of people who successfully clean bulk.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Options
    Okay- I see the disconnect.

    I was reading OP's post as clean- meaning- that whole"pure unprocessed" only chicken veggies- no "processed" high calorie dense types food.


    So that was what I was specifically referring to.

    YES to your post... that- clean in the traditional sense of small- moderate calorie bulk is good.

    I apologize for the misread between the OP's post- and your post. I was still thinking he was talking "clean" as in the new fad clean.

    no- I'm all about moderate suplus bulks. I'm a chick- if I tried dirty bulking I'd be a whale in 2 months flat LMAO.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Options
    Jorocka, you know a lot of people who use the word "clean" along with the words "food" or "diet" or even "Bulk" aren't talking about calories. They're talking about quality of the food. Gummie bears are great, so is pizza and beer. But the kind that's loaded with unnatural preservatives, dyes, HFCS are not. Just a heads up, it's technically semantics, but I've noticed this a lot in threads that you post in, (I'm not trying to say that the OP is using it one way or another) but I thought I'd finally give you a heads up. I eat "clean" and when i say that I mean that I eat organic produce, grass fed beef, free range chicken and eggs etc. I also drink beer, eat chocolate, pizza, pasta, even :gasp: candy from time to time :D But it's still "clean" food.
    Have a good Friday and an ever better weekend!

    the kind loaded with preservatives and dyes are fine. I eat them all the time. It's not dirty. It's fine.

    There are two types of clean- and we often get people in here saying they want to clean bulk on nothing but veggies and chicken breasts and it's not practical.

    Clean in bulking is different than clean as in processed.

    The original post sculli was saying he didn't agree on- I actually agree with him- yes- a traditional small calorie clean bulk is valid and fine.
  • Chris_Pierce
    Chris_Pierce Posts: 267 Member
    Options
    No the "kind" loaded with dyes and preservatives are not "fine". Seriously go look it up. Eat it all you want, but don't pretend it's healthy.


    Nevermind, I'm starting to see that your the type of person who thinks that as long as your not fat your heathy. Cancer sucks, but don't take my word for it, you'll find out I for yourself sooner or later
  • sculli123
    sculli123 Posts: 1,221 Member
    Options
    Okay- I see the disconnect.

    I was reading OP's post as clean- meaning- that whole"pure unprocessed" only chicken veggies- no "processed" high calorie dense types food.


    So that was what I was specifically referring to.

    YES to your post... that- clean in the traditional sense of small- moderate calorie bulk is good.

    I apologize for the misread between the OP's post- and your post. I was still thinking he was talking "clean" as in the new fad clean.

    no- I'm all about moderate suplus bulks. I'm a chick- if I tried dirty bulking I'd be a whale in 2 months flat LMAO.
    Ahhhh friends?
  • cwoyto123
    cwoyto123 Posts: 308
    Options
    No.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Options
    Okay- I see the disconnect.

    I was reading OP's post as clean- meaning- that whole"pure unprocessed" only chicken veggies- no "processed" high calorie dense types food.


    So that was what I was specifically referring to.

    YES to your post... that- clean in the traditional sense of small- moderate calorie bulk is good.

    I apologize for the misread between the OP's post- and your post. I was still thinking he was talking "clean" as in the new fad clean.

    no- I'm all about moderate suplus bulks. I'm a chick- if I tried dirty bulking I'd be a whale in 2 months flat LMAO.
    Ahhhh friends?

    :drinker:
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Options
    No the "kind" loaded with dyes and preservatives are not "fine". Seriously go look it up. Eat it all you want, but don't pretend it's healthy.


    Nevermind, I'm starting to see that your the type of person who thinks that as long as your not fat your heathy. Cancer sucks, but don't take my word for it, you'll find out I for yourself sooner or later

    I actually don't pretend anything is healthy- it's all just food. Food is fuel.
    I don't go out of my way to suck highly processed stuff down- but I don't avoid it like I'm scared of it.

    ah- you're one of those enjoy your cancer people- good to know!!!

Categories