Food for thought: Reasons why the "ideal" diet is disputed

btente

The majority of studies on diet are very poorly controlled and when the results don't match up to the expected outcomes the researchers either blame the complexity of the human body or people for lying about what they ate. It's an environment where the only acceptable outcomes are that which we already believe so our knowledge is stagnating. Meanwhile because of all the inconclusive and conflicting studies the experts can essentially pick and choose what they want to believe is true making health sciences more of a health religion.

There exists scientific peer reviewed evidence to suggest that vegan, vegetarian, omnivore, low-carbohydrate, low-fat, and regional diets like the Mediterranean are the best for overall health and longevity. Obviously these diets have a lot of conflicting recommendations, but almost every major issue on health has conflicting and inconclusive evidence to include what causes cardiovascular disease, what raises serum cholesterol, what are the dietary contributions to diabetes, dietary contributions to cancer, and what is causing the obesity epidemic. This handful of topics alone covers the majority of death caused by dietary contributions and the majority of death in first world countries.

It doesn’t take much to identify faults in diet studies and the biggest is self-reported data. Most studies with substantial participant size use self-reported data which has been identified over and over again as error prone. Several of the largest and most influential studies on diet use self-reported data like the Framingham Study, The Nurses’ Study, and NHANES. The results any study produces are only as accurate and reliable as the data gathered by the study. Since self-reported data is both unreliable and inaccurate the results are therefore going to be unreliable and inaccurate.

There are other major faults in many diet studies. For example, in one of the latest studies on the Mediterranean diet there were two significant study design flaws:

1. The control group received only initial counselling then got leaflets yearly for the first three years, while the Mediterranean diet groups got individual and group counseling quarterly.
2. The Mediterranean diet groups were “encouraged to avoid commercially made cookies, cakes and pastries”. Since the control group didn’t have personalized support and weren’t encouraged to avoid these foods how can you distinguish clearly between cutting out these foods and the diet itself?

After three years the researchers woke up and started offering the same counseling to the control group, but after three years of impact from differences in counseling and support the control group is hardly a control group. The study lasted a total of seven years at which point the researchers deemed it “unethical” to continue the study due to emerging mortality differences; however, this can easily be viewed as an excuse to end the study as soon as they got the results they wanted. The researchers in the studies all had major conflicts of interest that would benefit from promoting this type of diet to include major producers of nuts and alcohol.

Although it can clearly be seen the latest Mediterranean diet study is not an unbiased, well controlled study numerous other flaws in study design can be found. If these studies were well controlled and designed then you flat out wouldn’t have the conflicting and inconclusive results we can so easily see.

References:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199212313272701#t=article+Results.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1200303

goldthistime

An interesting read. Hopefully this doesn't come across as rude, but ... so?

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Kitteneyes01

BIG BUMP! Because I'd like to see where this goes. :bigsmile:

jennifer_417

I've often said that weight loss is as much art as it is science.

Madame_Goldbricker

I'm tired & a bit dumb so I'm possibly missing the point of this. So in layman's terms can you break down exactly what you are trying to put across OP? Once more for the cheap seats at the back please.

*If it's that a Mediterranean diet is essentially healthy? That concept has been around for years. Although it's not that much of a shocker as it's essentially generally comprised of lots of oils, fruits, veg, lean meats. Oh and due to the climate these things are generally widely available and abundant. And they don't have to rely a lot on import so produce is very fresh. It's not exactly ground breaking stuff.

Kitteneyes01

I've often said that weight loss is as much art as it is science.

Ouch, I'm a really bad artist....

yarwell

If these studies were well controlled and designed then you flat out wouldn’t have the conflicting and inconclusive results we can so easily see.

How do you know this ?

RodaRose

American version of the Mediterranean diet versus the real diet of the people of Crete in the 1950s:


The American idea of the "Mediterranean" diet (referred to in the OP) is a corrupted version of the Crete (an island off Greece) diet after World War II.
During the 1950s, the people of Crete were not eating pasta and certainly not in the way that the Americans interpret and eat the Mediterranean diet. They were very poor, eating what was available to them: lots of greens, lots of olive oil, bread, and the occasional fish. They were much much more active that the people of the 21st century are.
I am not a scientist so I am supposing the the scientific observations about the diet of the people of Crete in the 1950s is an observational study.


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14208732

sabified

I did not read your post... because it's very long.

So this is part "bump for later" and part me throwing my 2 cents in when I really shouldn't... but I think the reason the "ideal" diet is so disputed is because frankly.. who's to say what's ideal?

Ideal in North America varies from north to south, while Asian, Mediterranean, South American, European countries all have different ideals... and that's looking globally, not even taking into consideration the minute differences between people of the same cultures- for example, I'm East Indian, married into an Indian family, and am routinely asked if I'm going to eat "normal food" or "my type of food". What do I do differently? Less oil, no butter on my rotis and more veggies. Having a salad with my meals was "weird food" for my in laws. And they consider themselves healthy eaters.

Will probably come back and bite my words when I do read what you've written, but for now, there it is.

Hondo_Man

I'm curious OP, are you a PhD?

Madame_Goldbricker

American version of the Mediterranean diet versus the real diet of the people of Crete in the 1950s:


The American idea of the "Mediterranean" diet (referred to in the OP) is a corrupted version of the Crete (an island off Greece) diet after World War II.
During the 1950s, the people of Crete were not eating pasta and certainly not in the way that the Americans interpret and eat the Mediterranean diet. They were very poor, eating what was available to them: lots of greens, lots of olive oil, bread, and the occasional fish. They were much much more active that the people of the 21st century are.
I am not a scientist so I am supposing the the scientific observations about the diet of the people of Crete in the 1950s is an observational study.


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14208732

This is not entirely accurate. I visited Crete specifically Heraklion on holiday for two weeks last year. The "mediterranean diet" is indeed still very much alive and kicking. All produce was fresh including locally grown oranges that they cold press and sell in the kiosks. Takeaway food items such as pizza are stone baked, doughs are prepared in front of the customers and fresh ingredients are used. There was 1 McDonalds in the central tourist area. All other food places were open fronted and the customer can watch their food being made. Traditional meals such as Moussaka are heavily influenced on menus. Smoking has always been very much a cultural thing there. People have not been banned from smoking in resturants and most places. And alcohol is frequently drank in large quanities with meals.

SaebraSpirit

At the end of the day, yes the human body is complex and is adaptable to a wide range of food. We are omnivores and so both vegetarians and carnivores. To choose between either is silly in my mind we aren't one of the other.
So there is no 'one miracle diet'.
I believe in some of the guidelines by the Primal/Paleo community in that we should stick to foods as least processed as possible. Cookies and cakes are just not great for the sugar levels and hormone systems in your body. But at the same time, it doesn't mean that you can't ever eat them. Just more like once a month or so than every day.

The human body is not as fragile as we think and is very versatile, it will deal with what you eat as best it can. That being said, nutrition and vitamins are critical for optimal and functional health which is why fruits and vegetables are so important. Furthermore they harbor good water resources which I don't think people drink enough of.
But protein and animal fats are valuable for cell growth and replacement so meat is ideal and powerful in delivering this.
'Healthy fats' such as avocados and nuts are in their natural state like animal fats and so beneficial in nutrients and energy supply.

I'd like to point out that too many people are afraid of fat and stick to carbs and then there are those that try to avoid all carbs possible. Personally I've tried both but the best results that I got was always a more equal ratio between carbs, fats and protein. Your body is best balanced, and a little bit of everything is the best way to go.

But at the end of the day every body is different and different genders, ethnic origins and body masses or ratios will have different requirements. Don't take someone else's 'diet', create your own by listening to what makes your body feel best.

seashel812

At the end of the day, yes the human body is complex and is adaptable to a wide range of food. We are omnivores and so both vegetarians and carnivores. To choose between either is silly in my mind we aren't one of the other.
So there is no 'one miracle diet'.
I believe in some of the guidelines by the Primal/Paleo community in that we should stick to foods as least processed as possible. Cookies and cakes are just not great for the sugar levels and hormone systems in your body. But at the same time, it doesn't mean that you can't ever eat them. Just more like once a month or so than every day.

The human body is not as fragile as we think and is very versatile, it will deal with what you eat as best it can. That being said, nutrition and vitamins are critical for optimal and functional health which is why fruits and vegetables are so important. Furthermore they harbor good water resources which I don't think people drink enough of.
But protein and animal fats are valuable for cell growth and replacement so meat is ideal and powerful in delivering this.
'Healthy fats' such as avocados and nuts are in their natural state like animal fats and so beneficial in nutrients and energy supply.

I'd like to point out that too many people are afraid of fat and stick to carbs and then there are those that try to avoid all carbs possible. Personally I've tried both but the best results that I got was always a more equal ratio between carbs, fats and protein. Your body is best balanced, and a little bit of everything is the best way to go.

But at the end of the day every body is different and different genders, ethnic origins and body masses or ratios will have different requirements. Don't take someone else's 'diet', create your own by listening to what makes your body feel best.

This. Human body is very adaptive and unprocessed foods whether you're vegan, or omnivore are best. By unprocessed foods--your donuts, cookies, Twinkies, nachos

MyChocolateDiet

I've often said that weight loss is as much art as it is science.

Ouch, I'm a really bad artist....

Me too...talentless hack!:frown:

_Zardoz_

So what is the point of this thread?

athensguy

I do find myself becoming pretty skeptical of findings from studies with self-reported diet. Especially the ones that merely ask you to estimate how much red meat or wine or sugar or whatever you ate per day over the last year.

tennisdude2004

The problem with many peer reviewed studies is that they are not always reproduced (to matching criteria, by independant researchers) and therefore does not always confirm a clear and definitive outcome, which can rule out these potential flaws or coincidences.

Lourdesong

Good post. Yes, while it's good to be pro-science, it's not good to view scientists as if they are the new priestly class or that their work is guaranteed by God to be free of being riddled with bone-headed errors or agenda's. Let's not confuse our ideal of science and scientists, with science as is and scientists as they are.
I think it can be tempting to become a little too enthusiastic about science when defending science against unfair criticism and attack. Science and scientists don't have to be the ideal to still come out unscathed by unfair attacks. Holding science and scientists up higher than they deserve also provides a strong temptation for many to knock them down,

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seashel812

[/quote]


In my personal health experiments cholesterol seemed to be a predictable number based on diet and I wanted to see how it behaved. Normally cholesterol varies about 20% week to week but I attempted to stabilize my cholesterol with a banana diet and found it was 143 mg/dL +- 3% deviation across 2 years of experiments with 6 confirmed stabilization results. My prior cholesterol values before the stabilization ranged from 180's to 300's as well.

[/quote]

Banana diet? Are you saying the only thing you ate was banana's?

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Kitteneyes01

I love reading smart sounding stuff:bigsmile: especially since I'm not smart. 60% average on all my exams yep.

RodaRose

Visiting Crete sounds beautiful. I hope that you had a good time.