Attractiveness and Weight - research & BMI
EvgeniZyntx
Posts: 24,208 Member
The image below shows research on "attractiveness" vs bmi for two different groups - self identified "fat admirers" and a control group.
Research here: http://www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/m.j.tovee/Swami+Tovee-2009.pdf
Whatever BMI you have, or intent to have as a goal weight, attractiveness isn't some absolute measure based on the weight on the scale for all guys.
(Oh, look, we don't all think alike.)
Lower weight might be attractive to some, while higher weight might be attractive to another group.
Research here: http://www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/m.j.tovee/Swami+Tovee-2009.pdf
Whatever BMI you have, or intent to have as a goal weight, attractiveness isn't some absolute measure based on the weight on the scale for all guys.
(Oh, look, we don't all think alike.)
Lower weight might be attractive to some, while higher weight might be attractive to another group.
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Replies
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you may not think for yourself.0
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BMI is pseudo-science devised in the early 1800's. It's merely someone's weight and height ratio, and has nothing to do with their body fat percentage or their health.
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BMI is pseudo-science devised in the early 1800's. It's merely someone's weight and height ratio, and has nothing to do with their body fat percentage or their health.
I'm fairly sure that those of us that have posted thus far are aware.0 -
BMI is pseudo-science devised in the early 1800's. It's merely someone's weight and height ratio, and has nothing to do with their body fat percentage or their health.
In general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.0 -
My BMI is pretty high...i thinkkkk i am close to the obese range due to LBM AND body fat. I certainly hope I have attractiveness factor no matter what my number is:flowerforyou:BMI is pseudo-science devised in the early 1800's. It's merely someone's weight and height ratio, and has nothing to do with their body fat percentage or their health.
In general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.0 -
BMI is pseudo-science devised in the early 1800's. It's merely someone's weight and height ratio, and has nothing to do with their body fat percentage or their health.
I don't think the chart was concerned much with the efficacy of the BMI chart so much as the fact that people are attracted to all shapes and sizes. It was just comparing two groups: a control group and a group of people who proclaim a preference for larger people.0 -
My BMI is pretty high...i thinkkkk i am close to the obese range due to LBM AND body fat. I certainly hope I have attractiveness factor no matter what my number is:flowerforyou:BMI is pseudo-science devised in the early 1800's. It's merely someone's weight and height ratio, and has nothing to do with their body fat percentage or their health.
In general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.
This you do. This you do.
Stunning.
<mmmmh,numbers>
:flowerforyou:0 -
@wheirdI'm fairly sure that those of us that have posted thus far are aware.
Not posting for your benefit but for the OP, who seemed to not understand that the entire premise of BMI is false and misleading. And hey, I learned that from reading the "Eat, Train, Progress" group info. Sidesteel and Sarauk2sf are very intelligent people and they don't use BMI as an indicator.
@EvgeniZyntxIn general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.
This isn't about making you or anyone else happy Bro, it was about educating someone who made an ignorant statement. I knew too many people in the military who actually had a high BMI and had to jump through all kinds of hoops because they were actually muscular, football types but their medical records said they were overweight, so this is a real issue in the world of 'real men'. (And a few pretty High Speed Low Drag ladies, LOL!
I'm sorry, I assumed that you might be teachable? My bad.
Ha! But really, what was the point of your post if not to pass on irrelevant and false 'information'? Sorry if I peed on your parade. No need to get your panties in a wad.
CYA ~ I'm done here.0 -
@wheirdI'm fairly sure that those of us that have posted thus far are aware.
Not posting for your benefit but for the OP, who seemed to not understand that the entire premise of BMI is false and misleading. And hey, I learned that from reading the "Eat, Train, Progress" group info. Sidesteel and Sarauk2sf are very intelligent people and they don't use BMI as an indicator.
@EvgeniZyntxIn general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.
This isn't about making you or anyone else happy Bro, it was about educating someone who made an ignorant statement. I knew too many people in the military who actually had a high BMI and had to jump through all kinds of hoops because they were actually muscular, football types but their medical records said they were overweight, so this is a real issue in the world of 'real men'. (And a few pretty High Speed Low Drag ladies, LOL!
I'm sorry, I assumed that you might be teachable? My bad.
Ha! But really, what was the point of your post if not to pass on irrelevant and false 'information'? Sorry if I peed on your parade. No need to get your panties in a wad.
CYA ~ I'm done here.
Uh. Wow.
And also.
..... Nope, just wow.
I don't think anyone expected butthurt over the study using this perfectly relevant statistical measure to provide some statistics.
Bmi = lousy for individual evaluations and very good as a correlation to bodyfat across average populations. Which both Sara and side steel will confirm.0 -
What I take away from this chart is that most of the men at my gym are "fat admirers," b/c I do nothing for the control group.0
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@wheirdI'm fairly sure that those of us that have posted thus far are aware.
Not posting for your benefit but for the OP, who seemed to not understand that the entire premise of BMI is false and misleading. And hey, I learned that from reading the "Eat, Train, Progress" group info. Sidesteel and Sarauk2sf are very intelligent people and they don't use BMI as an indicator.
@EvgeniZyntxIn general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.
This isn't about making you or anyone else happy Bro, it was about educating someone who made an ignorant statement. I knew too many people in the military who actually had a high BMI and had to jump through all kinds of hoops because they were actually muscular, football types but their medical records said they were overweight, so this is a real issue in the world of 'real men'. (And a few pretty High Speed Low Drag ladies, LOL!
I'm sorry, I assumed that you might be teachable? My bad.
Ha! But really, what was the point of your post if not to pass on irrelevant and false 'information'? Sorry if I peed on your parade. No need to get your panties in a wad.
CYA ~ I'm done here.
Amused. It seems you missed the point.
See Galatea's post.0 -
Nice post as always, OP, but did that really just happen? Entertaining as always these forums are.0
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Nice post as always, OP, but did that really just happen? Entertaining as always these forums are.
Ditto :drinker:0 -
Nice post as always, OP, but did that really just happen? Entertaining as always these forums are.
It wouldn't be MFP if somebody didn't find some reason to get bent out of shape over something positive.0 -
LOLOLOLOL at gene needing to be "taught" by you. You completely missed the point of his post.@wheirdI'm fairly sure that those of us that have posted thus far are aware.
Not posting for your benefit but for the OP, who seemed to not understand that the entire premise of BMI is false and misleading. And hey, I learned that from reading the "Eat, Train, Progress" group info. Sidesteel and Sarauk2sf are very intelligent people and they don't use BMI as an indicator.
@EvgeniZyntxIn general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.
This isn't about making you or anyone else happy Bro, it was about educating someone who made an ignorant statement. I knew too many people in the military who actually had a high BMI and had to jump through all kinds of hoops because they were actually muscular, football types but their medical records said they were overweight, so this is a real issue in the world of 'real men'. (And a few pretty High Speed Low Drag ladies, LOL!
I'm sorry, I assumed that you might be teachable? My bad.
Ha! But really, what was the point of your post if not to pass on irrelevant and false 'information'? Sorry if I peed on your parade. No need to get your panties in a wad.
CYA ~ I'm done here.0 -
LOLOLOLOL at gene needing to be "taught" by you. You completely missed the point of his post.@wheirdI'm fairly sure that those of us that have posted thus far are aware.
Not posting for your benefit but for the OP, who seemed to not understand that the entire premise of BMI is false and misleading. And hey, I learned that from reading the "Eat, Train, Progress" group info. Sidesteel and Sarauk2sf are very intelligent people and they don't use BMI as an indicator.
@EvgeniZyntxIn general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.
This isn't about making you or anyone else happy Bro, it was about educating someone who made an ignorant statement. I knew too many people in the military who actually had a high BMI and had to jump through all kinds of hoops because they were actually muscular, football types but their medical records said they were overweight, so this is a real issue in the world of 'real men'. (And a few pretty High Speed Low Drag ladies, LOL!
I'm sorry, I assumed that you might be teachable? My bad.
Ha! But really, what was the point of your post if not to pass on irrelevant and false 'information'? Sorry if I peed on your parade. No need to get your panties in a wad.
CYA ~ I'm done here.
In fairness to her, we all do say "BMI doesn't matter" pretty often in response to people using BMI to set goal weights, but that is in context of "BMI doesn't matter - for this thing".
So I can see where someone would get the idea that it doesn't matter in ALL contexts.
But feeling the need to angrily school people on something you don't actually understand is ..... not ideal.0 -
My BMI is pretty high...i thinkkkk i am close to the obese range due to LBM AND body fat. I certainly hope I have attractiveness factor no matter what my number is:flowerforyou:BMI is pseudo-science devised in the early 1800's. It's merely someone's weight and height ratio, and has nothing to do with their body fat percentage or their health.
In general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.
You my dear are undeniably hot.0 -
@wheirdI'm fairly sure that those of us that have posted thus far are aware.
Not posting for your benefit but for the OP, who seemed to not understand that the entire premise of BMI is false and misleading. And hey, I learned that from reading the "Eat, Train, Progress" group info. Sidesteel and Sarauk2sf are very intelligent people and they don't use BMI as an indicator.
@EvgeniZyntxIn general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.
This isn't about making you or anyone else happy Bro, it was about educating someone who made an ignorant statement. I knew too many people in the military who actually had a high BMI and had to jump through all kinds of hoops because they were actually muscular, football types but their medical records said they were overweight, so this is a real issue in the world of 'real men'. (And a few pretty High Speed Low Drag ladies, LOL!
I'm sorry, I assumed that you might be teachable? My bad.
Ha! But really, what was the point of your post if not to pass on irrelevant and false 'information'? Sorry if I peed on your parade. No need to get your panties in a wad.
CYA ~ I'm done here.
lol @ at a genpopper dumping on the actual science guy0 -
OP, I totally get the humor of your post so no butthurt here I promise.Bmi = lousy for individual evaluations and very good as a correlation to bodyfat across average populations. Which both Sara and side steel will confirm.
I would have agreed with this statement last week, this post on another thread has made me call that in to question however.
The National Institutes of Heath did a study called: Accuracy of Body Mass Index to Diagnose Obesity In the US Adult Population
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2877506/
Now I admittedly haven't done much research in this field, but um yea, those numbers look a little questionable to me.0 -
You calling him ignorant while making baseless assumptions about him, that's comedy gold right there.@wheirdI'm fairly sure that those of us that have posted thus far are aware.
Not posting for your benefit but for the OP, who seemed to not understand that the entire premise of BMI is false and misleading. And hey, I learned that from reading the "Eat, Train, Progress" group info. Sidesteel and Sarauk2sf are very intelligent people and they don't use BMI as an indicator.
@EvgeniZyntxIn general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.
This isn't about making you or anyone else happy Bro, it was about educating someone who made an ignorant statement. I knew too many people in the military who actually had a high BMI and had to jump through all kinds of hoops because they were actually muscular, football types but their medical records said they were overweight, so this is a real issue in the world of 'real men'. (And a few pretty High Speed Low Drag ladies, LOL!
I'm sorry, I assumed that you might be teachable? My bad.
Ha! But really, what was the point of your post if not to pass on irrelevant and false 'information'? Sorry if I peed on your parade. No need to get your panties in a wad.
CYA ~ I'm done here.0 -
OP, I totally get the humor of your post so no butthurt here I promise.Bmi = lousy for individual evaluations and very good as a correlation to bodyfat across average populations. Which both Sara and side steel will confirm.
I would have agreed with this statement last week, this post on another thread has made me call that in to question however.
The National Institutes of Heath did a study called: Accuracy of Body Mass Index to Diagnose Obesity In the US Adult Population
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2877506/
Now I admittedly haven't done much research in this field, but um yea, those numbers look a little questionable to me.
I like you - esp after the mean people thread du jour - but, you are also missing the point of the original post.... Which is that attractiveness is somewhat irrelevant to weight/BMI/bf%/ etc. - that there are men who find every body shape or type of women attractive.
Also, on the women's chart under 60 yrs of age) it looks like actual bf% well exceeded BMI - so the study he posted should in fact be quite valid :flowerforyou:0 -
Amber, if you look at the R^2 values for women under 60 (which was the population for the visuals for the research) the correlation at 0.73 is pretty high ( with very low p values ). T
You'll notice that:
A) not a single women in that scatter plot has a bf% of 20 or lower with a BMI of 25 or higher.
my original post makes no mention about body fat or health. Yes. BMI is not a measure of fat or health. Not the point.
C) BMI is, by definition, a linear correlation of weight and if used in that sense. The title of my thread is attractiveness and weight and BMI includes a direct weight component.0 -
I carry my weight in my butt/hips and boobs and have a high BMI. I'm married so I don't go out without my husband very much but recently I've gone out with a friend of mine and was surprised that several men were flirting with me. I wonder if I carried my weight in my belly, arms and face if this would be the case?
I also want to know what the demographics of those that participated in this study. I've noticed certain groups of people are are attracted to heavier women than others.0 -
My formatting probably caused an issue. That study was *only* in response to the poster saying BMI is a good correlation to body fat%, I was just pointing out that I'm starting to question that. Eh, I don't generally consider an r-squared of 0.73 to be overly strong, and that's the only one that even comes close for providing a useful correlation.
Sorry, I questioned posting this to begin with, but thought given the audience some might find it interesting because it was for me. I placed it badly, but I wasn't at all upset or offended by the OP and wasn't really meaning to relate that particular study to the content of the OP.0 -
I feel like someone just shouted down tesla on electricity. Is this real life?0
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@wheirdI'm fairly sure that those of us that have posted thus far are aware.
Not posting for your benefit but for the OP, who seemed to not understand that the entire premise of BMI is false and misleading. And hey, I learned that from reading the "Eat, Train, Progress" group info. Sidesteel and Sarauk2sf are very intelligent people and they don't use BMI as an indicator.
@EvgeniZyntxIn general, for a large general population higher BMI means higher bf%.
But go ahead and consider that they where evaluating high BMI body builders if that makes you happy.
This isn't about making you or anyone else happy Bro, it was about educating someone who made an ignorant statement. I knew too many people in the military who actually had a high BMI and had to jump through all kinds of hoops because they were actually muscular, football types but their medical records said they were overweight, so this is a real issue in the world of 'real men'. (And a few pretty High Speed Low Drag ladies, LOL!
I'm sorry, I assumed that you might be teachable? My bad.
Ha! But really, what was the point of your post if not to pass on irrelevant and false 'information'? Sorry if I peed on your parade. No need to get your panties in a wad.
CYA ~ I'm done here.
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My formatting probably caused an issue. That study was *only* in response to the poster saying BMI is a good correlation to body fat%, I was just pointing out that I'm starting to question that. Eh, I don't generally consider an r-squared of 0.73 to be overly strong, and that's the only one that even comes close for providing a useful correlation.
Sorry, I questioned posting this to begin with, but thought given the audience some might find it interesting because it was for me. I placed it badly, but I wasn't at all upset or offended by the OP and wasn't really meaning to relate that particular study to the content of the OP.
It is interesting but consider that beyond the R-squared correlation what might be considered is predictive value. One would actually want to either look at the 95% Confidence Intervals (or PI's) or consider the correlation of BMI to clinical end points.
What I would consider interesting is: does this model predict what the fat% is likely to be for someone with a a specific BMI? We'd have to do a best fit non-linear equation and consider the CI. Like this:
That whole discussion if laid out here:
http://blog.minitab.com/blog/adventures-in-statistics/how-to-predict-with-minitab-using-bmi-to-predict-the-body-fat-percentage-part-2
Where I would see an interest in BMI as a clinical indicator is when it is evaluation to health end points (diabetes risk, heart attack) or life expectancy. For example, in research like this: http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/2/3/e000940.long
While BMI might not be a good goal indicator a 95% confidence interval in that research suggest as that if you are female, 40 and obese BMI the life expectancy is 3.4 years shorter than a normal BMI. Body fat% might have a better correlation to tighter confidence interval.
In any case, thanks for the article, will read it.0 -
:flowerforyou:0
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I feel like someone just shouted down tesla on electricity. Is this real life?
I'm sure it's just fantasy.0
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