Successful Cut Before Bulk?

NCSteveVH

[I'm reposting in this section since I know there are a lot of people doing bulk/cut phases that frequent this section (and I didn't get any responses from the "General" section). Although my topic is about cutting, I'm hoping I can get some feedback from those who do bulk/cut phases.]

A question for those of you who do bulk/cut phases. I'm currently trying to slowly cut to about 12% body fat by the end of the summer before bulking in October. I'm trying to minimize my lean muscle loss during my cut so in addition to eating at a slight caloric deficit and doing cardio (which I enjoy), I'm also doing resistance training. Over a span of 16 weeks and per two Bod Pod analyses, 70% of my weight loss was from fat and 30% was LBM. Is this a decent ratio? I was hoping to retain a little more LBM during this cut but perhaps a 70/30 ratio of BF/LBM loss should be expected?

If it helps to answer this question, I'm now at 14.9% BF at 179.6 lbs . Over the last 16 weeks, I lost 6.4 lbs, of which 4.5 lbs was fat and 1.9 lbs was LBM. I'm also 49 yrs old which may factor into my rate of success.

mustgetmuscles1

Try not to rely on those measurements to much. LBM is everything that is not fat, including water. So results showing a loss of LBM does not automatically mean muscle loss.

Just get on a good full body lifting program and keep pushing yourself. Keep your protein up and you will be fine.

NRBreit

Hey Steve, I'm sure some folks will disagree, I believe 70/30 is about all you can hope for doing everything right. This relates to your partitioning ('P') ratio which is determined by genetics and can vary from person to person. In my case, I have found that I gain at a 50/50 ratio and then lose at about a 70/30 ratio. As an example, if I bulk 15 pounds, 7.5 pounds will be LBM and 7.5 will be fat. Then when I cut that same 15 pounds, I would lose 4.5 pounds LBM and 10.5 pounds of fat for a net recomp of 3 pounds. Not much of a gain for a 30-40 week process, but it is what it is. I'm sure new lifters and younger folks may get better results though.

Some good reading here...

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/calorie-partitioning-part-1.html

NCSteveVH

Try not to rely on those measurements to much. LBM is everything that is not fat, including water. So results showing a loss of LBM does not automatically mean muscle loss.

Just get on a good full body lifting program and keep pushing yourself. Keep your protein up and you will be fine.

Thanks for the feedback. I have a torn meniscus so I haven't been able to do heavy squats or deadlifts for 6 weeks. I'm getting scoped next week so hoping I can get back to full body body workouts in a month or so. I'll just keep at it!

NCSteveVH

Hey Steve, I'm sure some folks will disagree, I believe 70/30 is about all you can hope for doing everything right. This relates to your partitioning ('P') ratio which is determined by genetics and can vary from person to person. In my case, I have found that I gain at a 50/50 ratio and then lose at about a 70/30 ratio. As an example, if I bulk 15 pounds, 7.5 pounds will be LBM and 7.5 will be fat. Then when I cut that same 15 pounds, I would lose 4.5 pounds LBM and 10.5 pounds of fat for a net recomp of 3 pounds. Not much of a gain for a 30-40 week process, but it is what it is. I'm sure new lifters and younger folks may get better results though.

Some good reading here...

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/calorie-partitioning-part-1.html

Neil,

Thanks for sharing your insights and your successful results. I'll be thrilled if I can get a 50/50 return on my bulk this fall. And if I can follow that up with a 70/30 BF to LBM loss on my cut, I should be happy after a few cycles. Just need to prepare myself for the 7-8 pounds of fat I'll be gaining on my bulk. But definitely looking forward to eating more. Going to check out the link now. Thanks again!

awinner_au

a net recomp of 3 pounds. Not much of a gain for a 30-40 week process, but it is what it is. I'm sure new lifters and younger folks may get better results though.

Those are scary figures, Im older than you too!

MityMax96

Try taking BCAAs during this period??

NCSteveVH

Try taking BCAAs during this period??

I have a daily protein shake of Optimum Nutrition's Whey Protein which has 5 grams of BCAAs in it, but perhaps I should take a few more grams per day...

Thanks for feedback.

MityMax96

I would take them around my workout

Just my opinion

astronomicals

the way you worded it sounds like weight training isnt the focus.

four words.

Lower volume, higher intensity.

Creating a training stimulus greater than what you are fueling (able to recover from) is going to be catabolic. Weight training in and of itself is catabolic. If you cant recover, you lose lean mass.

How much cardio are you doing? Anything in excess of conditioning could very easily/likely have adverse effects.

NCSteveVH

the way you worded it sounds like weight training isnt the focus.

four words.

Lower volume, higher intensity.

Creating a training stimulus greater than what you are fueling (able to recover from) is going to be catabolic. Weight training in and of itself is catabolic. If you cant recover, you lose lean mass.

How much cardio are you doing? Anything in excess of conditioning could very easily/likely have adverse effects.

You may be onto something -- I do a lot of cardio. I will either row or swim for 50 minutes 6 days a week. I also do resistance training 3 times per week. Since my goal is to get to get to 12% BF before attempting a bulk cycle this Fall, I've been focusing on hitting a daily calorie deficit to lose the fat pounds first and just hoping to retain as much LBM as possible. The good news is that I'm fairly ripped now at 6'1 and 180 lbs and have a clear 4 pack, but I'm definitely losing some mass. I think I'm going to switch up my resistance routine and "lower my volume and increase intensity" for the next 16 weeks and see what results I can get. But still at a caloric deficit to get down to 12% BF. Thanks for the advice.

TiberiusClaudis

For what it's worth, I bulked up to 19%BF (previous 12%). That was in Nov. Since, I've dropped down to about 8%BF. I'd say 70/30 is just about exactly what I saw. I've dropped from 203lbs to 170. The good news are my abs are clearly visible. The bad news is I lost about 3/4 of an inch on my arms and about the same on my thighs. That's just how it works...at least for me.

And yes, I kept my protein sky high. I also do a lot of cardio...a lot, besides weightlifting of course.

Bottomline: I think your results are in line with what I went thru.

sculli123

Try not to rely on those measurements to much. LBM is everything that is not fat, including water. So results showing a loss of LBM does not automatically mean muscle loss.

Just get on a good full body lifting program and keep pushing yourself. Keep your protein up and you will be fine.

Thanks for the feedback. I have a torn meniscus so I haven't been able to do heavy squats or deadlifts for 6 weeks. I'm getting scoped next week so hoping I can get back to full body body workouts in a month or so. I'll just keep at it!

Good luck. Hopefully they can repair yours. I had mine done several years ago but wasn't able to repair it, just scraped out the bad cartilage. Sometimes it's OK other times it still bothers me (bone on bone).