When to start bulk/cut??

mom2kpr

I'm curious when most people start to bulk. Do you wait until you are at your goal weight? I have lost 35lb and have about 60 to go. I have extremely high body fat :mad: . I have been doing minimal strength training for several months, but now that I have a gym membership I am increasing the time I spend lifting & working on doing heavier lifting. Would I be better off just keeping at it this way until I reach my goal weight & could I start throwing in some bulking earlier? Thanks!

rejectuf

Bulking should be done when you are at a lower body fat percentage. I'd also only recommend it if your lifts are stalling.

If you are gaining strength and losing weight, why bother with bulking? Finish the weight loss, then worry about bulking if you feel you can't progress farther in your strength goals.

mom2kpr

Anyone? Maybe more what I'm wondering is, I want to build muscle because I have such a high BF%, but I know I can't build muscle while eating a deficit. Should I continue to eat at my deficit and do my regular workouts (cardio + weight lifting) until I reach my goal weight? Right now I try to reach a daily deficit of about 600 cal for a loss of 5 lb a month.

ahamm002

You can build muscle at a defecit, it's just not "efficient." If you still have a lot of fat to burn, then don't start bulking!

MagnumBurrito

Anyone? Maybe more what I'm wondering is, I want to build muscle because I have such a high BF%, but I know I can't build muscle while eating a deficit. Should I continue to eat at my deficit and do my regular workouts (cardio + weight lifting) until I reach my goal weight? Right now I try to reach a daily deficit of about 600 cal for a loss of 5 lb a month.

Just forget the cardio for now then. Lift and go for 300-400 below maintenance. Get your protein and healthy fats. Be consistent and the fat will melt off.

rogerOb1

Anyone? Maybe more what I'm wondering is, I want to build muscle because I have such a high BF%, but I know I can't build muscle while eating a deficit. Should I continue to eat at my deficit and do my regular workouts (cardio + weight lifting) until I reach my goal weight? Right now I try to reach a daily deficit of about 600 cal for a loss of 5 lb a month.

Just forget the cardio for now then. Lift and go for 300-400 below maintenance. Get your protein and healthy fats. Be consistent and the fat will melt off.

Why should she forget cardio? Absolutely nothing wrong with having a balanced training schedule that includes lifting and some cardio.

amcampbell2342

You are obviously still in the weight loss phase so there fore you need to continue to get in your proper nutrients each day until you hit a plateau. Alot of people do not eat enough and most do not eat enough protein. I think if you focus on your meals and get in good healthy snacks as well you will see the scale drop. Only when you hit a plateau should you reconsider your eating and workouts. Good Luck!

richardheath

Get on a progressive lifting program now, like New Rules, Starting Strength, Stronglifts etc. Eat enough protein with a reasonable calorie deficit. This way, you will at the very least retain your current muscle, get stronger and lose body fat. You might make some small muscle gains if you do everything right and are very lucky.

Bulking will add muscle faster, but you will also gain body fat. Given your current weight and high % body fat, I doubt you really want to do that right now. I'd suggest you get down to a weight/bf% you are comfortable at first before worrying about a bulk.

Nothing wrong with doing cardio now. In fact, it is good for your CV health! But remember that weight loss will come from a calorie deficit, not from any specific exercise. From what I've seen, most people suggest cutting out the cardio when you are bulking, and adding it back when you are cutting.

airplanes00

Anyone? Maybe more what I'm wondering is, I want to build muscle because I have such a high BF%, but I know I can't build muscle while eating a deficit. Should I continue to eat at my deficit and do my regular workouts (cardio + weight lifting) until I reach my goal weight? Right now I try to reach a daily deficit of about 600 cal for a loss of 5 lb a month.

Just forget the cardio for now then. Lift and go for 300-400 below maintenance. Get your protein and healthy fats. Be consistent and the fat will melt off.

Sorry I am going to highjack your post for a minute but I think I have the same question. The first time I started heavy lifting was when I had my last 10 lbs to go and was so frustrated with my progress. I found NROL4W and loved it, I only lost about 8lbs but I cut my measurements down and lost body fat, and that is really the goal anyways. I just had a baby and I for sure have to lose weight, I'm 5'5".5 180lbs, my BMI is 28 and my body fat is 32% . I have been doing 5/3/1 four days a week and only 20 minutes of HIIT cardio a week. My questions is (and I think we are on the same mind thought here, correct me if I'm wrong) is should I being doing more cardio right now then lifting to first reduce my body fat, and then start lifting to build my muscle, or will my body benefit from heavy lifting and little cardio. Right now I am eating my TDEE - 20% / Protein at 30% of my LBM / Fat at 35% / and Carbs the difference at 35% - Basically I am unsure what the best portion of lifting to cardio is right now since I need to lose, but still want to get lean and strong. Thanks for the advice

airplanes00

bump

likitisplit

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html

richardheath

Sorry I am going to highjack your post for a minute but I think I have the same question. The first time I started heavy lifting was when I had my last 10 lbs to go and was so frustrated with my progress. I found NROL4W and loved it, I only lost about 8lbs but I cut my measurements down and lost body fat, and that is really the goal anyways. I just had a baby and I for sure have to lose weight, I'm 5'5".5 180lbs, my BMI is 28 and my body fat is 32% . I have been doing 5/3/1 four days a week and only 20 minutes of HIIT cardio a week. My questions is (and I think we are on the same mind thought here, correct me if I'm wrong) is should I being doing more cardio right now then lifting to first reduce my body fat, and then start lifting to build my muscle, or will my body benefit from heavy lifting and little cardio. Right now I am eating my TDEE - 20% / Protein at 30% of my LBM / Fat at 35% / and Carbs the difference at 35% - Basically I am unsure what the best portion of lifting to cardio is right now since I need to lose, but still want to get lean and strong. Thanks for the advice

I don't think there is one "right" answer. Some people will say don't bother with cardio at all, some will say do lots. Some will say lifting faster is cardio...

To maintain lean body mass right now, keep lifting. 3 days per week might be enough, as recovery is important.

Do some cardio because it is good for your overall health and it does help establish a calorie deficit. But exactly how much you do is really up to you. Do what you enjoy as you are more likely to stick to it!

MagnumBurrito

Anyone? Maybe more what I'm wondering is, I want to build muscle because I have such a high BF%, but I know I can't build muscle while eating a deficit. Should I continue to eat at my deficit and do my regular workouts (cardio + weight lifting) until I reach my goal weight? Right now I try to reach a daily deficit of about 600 cal for a loss of 5 lb a month.

Just forget the cardio for now then. Lift and go for 300-400 below maintenance. Get your protein and healthy fats. Be consistent and the fat will melt off.

Sorry I am going to highjack your post for a minute but I think I have the same question. The first time I started heavy lifting was when I had my last 10 lbs to go and was so frustrated with my progress. I found NROL4W and loved it, I only lost about 8lbs but I cut my measurements down and lost body fat, and that is really the goal anyways. I just had a baby and I for sure have to lose weight, I'm 5'5".5 180lbs, my BMI is 28 and my body fat is 32% . I have been doing 5/3/1 four days a week and only 20 minutes of HIIT cardio a week. My questions is (and I think we are on the same mind thought here, correct me if I'm wrong) is should I being doing more cardio right now then lifting to first reduce my body fat, and then start lifting to build my muscle, or will my body benefit from heavy lifting and little cardio. Right now I am eating my TDEE - 20% / Protein at 30% of my LBM / Fat at 35% / and Carbs the difference at 35% - Basically I am unsure what the best portion of lifting to cardio is right now since I need to lose, but still want to get lean and strong. Thanks for the advice

I go by 80% (minimum) weight lifting and 20% cardio.

Steady cardio will burn calories, but it may also burn lean mass. You can burn tons of fat while getting stronger from just lifting and no cardio. It's how I cut and bulk. No steady state cardio like running. I will, once every week or two, do 10 sprints (it takes 15 minutes) which naturally releases HGH.

When I feel like working out on non heavy lifting days, I do body weight exercises. They still burn more calories than cardio, and build muscle too.

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/01/do-we-systematically-underestimate.html

"For Mr. Average Joe with a body weight of 80kg, this would mean that his 30 minutes body weight workout doesn't consume 288kcal, but 576kcal and thus way more than 30min of jogging, which should cost him ~400kcal.

Bottom line: I guess I don't have to tell you that these results are very important. Not for you, obviously, because you as a SuppVersity reader know about the fallacy of working out to burn energy, but for all those Average Joes and specifically Janes out there who still believe that you'd lose weight by simply burning all the junk you eat off in the gym.

Cardio "addicts" would yet not be the only ones for whom these results - if they turn out to be substantial - would have huge consequences. The average "expert" on the panels we owe the wise dietary and exercise guidelines to, would probably also have to revise his opinion on the primary of "cardio" exercise for its "superior ability to help shed weight"... unfortunately, my gut tells me that I am the only one who even noticed the (future) publication of this paper in the Journal of Strength and Conditioning."

Heavy lifting and body weight exercises get your heart pumping a whole lot too. You're not going hard enough if you don't have to occasionally take a knee after difficult sets.

airplanes00

I go by 80% (minimum) weight lifting and 20% cardio.

Steady cardio will burn calories, but it may also burn lean mass. You can burn tons of fat while getting stronger from just lifting and no cardio. It's how I cut and bulk. No steady state cardio like running. I will, once every week or two, do 10 sprints (it takes 15 minutes) which naturally releases HGH.

When I feel like working out on non heavy lifting days, I do body weight exercises. They still burn more calories than cardio, and build muscle too.

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/01/do-we-systematically-underestimate.html

"For Mr. Average Joe with a body weight of 80kg, this would mean that his 30 minutes body weight workout doesn't consume 288kcal, but 576kcal and thus way more than 30min of jogging, which should cost him ~400kcal.

Bottom line: I guess I don't have to tell you that these results are very important. Not for you, obviously, because you as a SuppVersity reader know about the fallacy of working out to burn energy, but for all those Average Joes and specifically Janes out there who still believe that you'd lose weight by simply burning all the junk you eat off in the gym.

Cardio "addicts" would yet not be the only ones for whom these results - if they turn out to be substantial - would have huge consequences. The average "expert" on the panels we owe the wise dietary and exercise guidelines to, would probably also have to revise his opinion on the primary of "cardio" exercise for its "superior ability to help shed weight"... unfortunately, my gut tells me that I am the only one who even noticed the (future) publication of this paper in the Journal of Strength and Conditioning."

Heavy lifting and body weight exercises get your heart pumping a whole lot too. You're not going hard enough if you don't have to occasionally take a knee after difficult sets.
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Thanks for the response and the link

mom2kpr

Thanks everyone! I am going to start Stronglifts 5x5 on Tuesday. I will continue with my current deficit (500 - 600 daily) and do 30 min of cardio with my lifting.

TiberiusClaudis

Some pretty good advice so far.

Let me give you a short summary of my ACTUAL experience.

Spent 4 months going from 225 down to 165. BF% was well over 25%. When I was done losing that fat, I was what is called skinny fat. Thin but not much muscles. Not sure what BF was.

Spent next 6 months hitting the gym hard. Worked up to 185lbs and put on 20lbs of muscle. This is know as newbiee gains (Goldie Lock period). Looked pretty good at about 15%BF

Next bulked up to 211. BF approx 22%. Felt HUGE but FAT. Took 6 months to get back down to 185, but this time I was about 12-13%BF.

Went up to 203, BF approx 18%. That was last Nov. Started my glide back down.

Currently sitting at (I think) a tad under 8%. Will go get tested tomorrow. I'm at 169. Lost 3/4 inch in both thighs and arms...bummed but thats the price many (most?) pay for getting lean

Plan to enter my first competition in Aug, trainer says I have to be around 4%. So will continue to cut.

This entire cycle begain Feb 2012, so just under 2.5 years. Patience is a must..and forgiveness. I made about every mistake in the book but I kept at it.

As you can see, I cut fat first, then got my newbiee muscle gains and then have gone back and forth with bulk/cut. cycles Oh I don't EVER plan on going over 12%BF, just too difficult to lose. Plus, I like seeing my abs.:happy:

Your mileage may vary.

Good Luck...you are on your way!