Dyscalculia? (math disability)

LoneWolf_70

ne1 have any experience with this learning disability? I think one of my kids has it. IT sounds like it is basically dyslexia, but related to math. Any info is appreciated.

maab_connor

when my doc said that's what i probably had i was told it was basically numerical dyslexia.

pro tips:

train your RIGHT hand for the calculator / computer and your LEFT hand for the phone. only ever dial the phone w/ the left hand. (the numbers are reversed to each other and this stops the disconnect between see number: dial number b/c muscle memory becomes ingrained)

when in doubt: put a finger next to the number, our brains read differently when we're pointing where we're looking.

i write French 7s (that's with the line through) b/c i can read them easier.

also, if i WRITE a number by hand, i can read it better. my own handwriting rarely jumbles.

and SONGS are good. there are a lot of them online. our brains store music in a different area, so for mathematical constants, a song will be retrieved w/ the numbers in the right order. (like on The Simpsons, there was an ep where kids were singing Pi while jumping rope and i now remember the number order.)

but basically - like w/ dyslexia - it's a matter of slow down and concentrate, breathe and remember that it's ok that your brain works differently. and remind them that Einstein couldn't do simple math (many think it's b/c he was dyscalculetic)

LoneWolf_70

Good tips, thanks. My 14yo is the one I think has it, although in retrospect I think I have it to. Since im 43 and have had it all my life i have probably compensated in ways I cant figure out now lol, but I want to help my son while he's still "fresh"...much appreciated.

neandermagnon

I have a mild form of dyscalculia (there are different kinds) - I'm good at maths but can't do mental maths at all (have to write it all down) and I also can't memorise meaningless sequences of letters or numbers. I really struggle to remember my own PIN numbers and stuff (I have a system, before anyone worries about identity theft). I also have some other related difficulties, and I'm also diagnosed dyslexic and I have inattentive ADHD.

The tips from maab are good, but may not help everyone (there are different types) - for example while I'm good at remembering song lyrics, this does not work for me with numbers, e.g. the multiplication tables all I can remember of the song is blah times blah is blah, blah time blah is blah-blah, blah times blah is blahty-blah.... etc.

I know some people who have dyscalculia have worse problems than I do. I'm extremely good at the logic/problem solving side of maths, and pretty much everything in maths other than mental arithmetic and memorisation. I have memorised my times tables, but as a series of mnemonics not the regular way by chanting them.

_KitKat_

This is going to be odd if you haven't heard of it.....in you child's school did they teach "new math" during primary grades. If you haven't heard of it be glad. It can be very confusing because in many ways they work the problems backwards, and instead of teaching proper multiplication setup, they do something called lattice. When the child then hits junior high/highschool the normal formulations start getting used, this seems to set many kids back and causes jumbled confusion.

If your 14 yr old has a learning disability, I would be asking why the school did not catch this at a younger age. My youngest, has issues with math written out...she will be stumped or not line the factors up correctly, but if you ask her she can figure out most of it in her head. People have different learning styles.

I am mildly dyslexic... odd things reading digital clock backwards, always flipping from the back of a magazine or book, and read scanning right to left then reading left to right. On the same token though if you ask me a school question out loud, I can't answer, I need to read the question.

If you are concerned, talk to the school or look into a summer tutoring program.

LoneWolf_70

^ do u mean Common Core? Which is an abomination.

_KitKat_

I am thinking yes it is common core, our schools just called it new math and offered us classes in it for the parents. We hated it, and taught both girls how to do it the way they would need to in later grades and life. My 14 year old is a year ahead in math (entering ninth grade honors with 5 credits) but these old teaching's still mess her up, especially when new concepts in algebra look like the common core stuff but are completely different. My 11 year old has the hardest time now with multiplication/ division but can do fractions (which are division, she still doesn't get that), geometry and algebra.

QueenBishOTUniverse

We are fairly certain my husband has one of the more severe forms of this. All I can say is seek help for your child with this as much as possible. My husband is frustrated to this day that he was held out of all of the science classes he was interested in because he was "bad" at math. I can assure you, if anyone had known at the time what his problem was, he might have been VERY GOOD at math and science.

LoneWolf_70

We are fairly certain my husband has one of the more severe forms of this. All I can say is seek help for your child with this as much as possible. My husband is frustrated to this day that he was held out of all of the science classes he was interested in because he was "bad" at math. I can assure you, if anyone had known at the time what his problem was, he might have been VERY GOOD at math and science.

he prob would. My 14yo can score in high 90's in everything else without eve studying. Its just math thats the issue.

QueenBishOTUniverse

We are fairly certain my husband has one of the more severe forms of this. All I can say is seek help for your child with this as much as possible. My husband is frustrated to this day that he was held out of all of the science classes he was interested in because he was "bad" at math. I can assure you, if anyone had known at the time what his problem was, he might have been VERY GOOD at math and science.

he prob would. My 14yo can score in high 90's in everything else without eve studying. Its just math thats the issue.

From my experience with him that seems to be how it works. Something in the brain just processes the numbers VERY differently, but apparently if you can figure out what is happening and correct for it they can do very well in math because they are able to approach it from a very unique perspective..... Unfortunately for my husband, they just shoved him in the remedial classes until one of his teachers in high-school insisted that they actually test him. Oh wait, you mean he's actually a genius but just really really lazy because he stopped caring when you told him he was stupid?!?!

As much as I can complain about the modern education system, there are many ways in which there has been significant improvement, and diagnosis and treatment of these issues is one of them. Your child is very lucky that you are watching out for them on this.

neandermagnon

We are fairly certain my husband has one of the more severe forms of this. All I can say is seek help for your child with this as much as possible. My husband is frustrated to this day that he was held out of all of the science classes he was interested in because he was "bad" at math. I can assure you, if anyone had known at the time what his problem was, he might have been VERY GOOD at math and science.

he prob would. My 14yo can score in high 90's in everything else without eve studying. Its just math thats the issue.

is he a good visual thinker? I do maths visually, as in I see the problem in my head and visualise problems. It's hard to explain without a pen and paper and specific examples, but it makes a big difference. one example is I visualise algebra as an old fashoned balanced scale that has to stay balanced, and you have to keep on removing things until you only have the unknown on one side and a number on the other side.

Maths schemes that use visual concepts, concrete examples of problems and use objects or pictures are good. There's a British one called "maths makes sense" written by a professor at oxford university (I think it was that one and not cambridge but one of the two!) which teaches everything from a very concrete foundation and very visually, and then goes from there to solving the problems in more abstract ways. It's an extremely good scheme.

I've noticed that American maths schemes tend to rely too much on memorisation and not enough on concrete examples, logic, or understanding the concepts that underpin the method. I cannot, no matter how I try, remember how to do "recipe maths" whereby you follow a set of steps to get the answer. I can do those problems if I understand the logic behind why the method works, then the steps needed to solve the problem are plainly obvious. In the example of how I visualise algebra, it's plainly obvious what to do (e.g. subtracting or adding a particular number to both sides, or whatever operations are needed to isolate the unknown while keeping the scale balanced), but instructions like "move the number to the other side and change the sign to the opposite sign" make no sense because they don't explain what's actually happening to the numbers or how it helps to solve the problem.

kids who are good at geometry but bad at arithmetic and kids who are good at science and bad at maths need to be taught maths in a way that enables them to understand all the concepts behind the problem and the logic behind the method of solving it, not just memorising a set of instructions for how to solve it.

Anyway, that maths makes sense scheme is definitely worth a look - there's videos of it on teacher's TV. I can't remember the exact URL but you can probably find it via google.

ETA: it's the nature of my brain wiring (or learning disability if you want to call it that) that I can't remember things, especially not sequences, that don't make any logical sense. I can't remember my own PIN numbers and that's just 4 numbers. But I can remember a crap ton of information if it makes logical sense and fits into a logical framework of some sort

QueenBishOTUniverse

We are fairly certain my husband has one of the more severe forms of this. All I can say is seek help for your child with this as much as possible. My husband is frustrated to this day that he was held out of all of the science classes he was interested in because he was "bad" at math. I can assure you, if anyone had known at the time what his problem was, he might have been VERY GOOD at math and science.

he prob would. My 14yo can score in high 90's in everything else without eve studying. Its just math thats the issue.

is he a good visual thinker? I do maths visually, as in I see the problem in my head and visualise problems. It's hard to explain without a pen and paper and specific examples, but it makes a big difference. one example is I visualise algebra as an old fashoned balanced scale that has to stay balanced, and you have to keep on removing things until you only have the unknown on one side and a number on the other side.

Maths schemes that use visual concepts, concrete examples of problems and use objects or pictures are good. There's a British one called "maths makes sense" written by a professor at oxford university (I think it was that one and not cambridge but one of the two!) which teaches everything from a very concrete foundation and very visually, and then goes from there to solving the problems in more abstract ways. It's an extremely good scheme.

I've noticed that American maths schemes tend to rely too much on memorisation and not enough on concrete examples, logic, or understanding the concepts that underpin the method. I cannot, no matter how I try, remember how to do "recipe maths" whereby you follow a set of steps to get the answer. I can do those problems if I understand the logic behind why the method works, then the steps needed to solve the problem are plainly obvious. In the example of how I visualise algebra, it's plainly obvious what to do (e.g. subtracting or adding a particular number to both sides, or whatever operations are needed to isolate the unknown while keeping the scale balanced), but instructions like "move the number to the other side and change the sign to the opposite sign" make no sense because they don't explain what's actually happening to the numbers or how it helps to solve the problem.

kids who are good at geometry but bad at arithmetic and kids who are good at science and bad at maths need to be taught maths in a way that enables them to understand all the concepts behind the problem and the logic behind the method of solving it, not just memorising a set of instructions for how to solve it.

Anyway, that maths makes sense scheme is definitely worth a look - there's videos of it on teacher's TV. I can't remember the exact URL but you can probably find it via google.

ETA: it's the nature of my brain wiring (or learning disability if you want to call it that) that I can't remember things, especially not sequences, that don't make any logical sense. I can't remember my own PIN numbers and that's just 4 numbers. But I can remember a crap ton of information if it makes logical sense and fits into a logical framework of some sort

This also describes my husband to a T, did well in geometry, died in algebra, I can't even follow what he does when he tries to solve equations, has ten billion facts crammed in to his head but can't remember our phone number, can't manage multiplication to this day, but throw 20 dice on the table and he'll tell you the sum almost instantly. So if neandermagnon says it works I would definitely second looking in to it!

jstavix

My youngest daughter absolutely has this and she was tested at the beginning of 4th grade. In elementary school, they just pulled her out of class three times per week and worked in a small group, it did nothing to help. As soon as she went to middle school, they placed her in a program called "trans-math" it basically took her back to square one and they wouldn't let her go anywhere till she had that down. She will be going into 8th grade this year and will still be in the program. It has been a Godsend for her and let's get real, for me as well. You might want to call the special ed department and ask them if they would be willing to test your child. My daughter does very well everywhere else in school. She and math are not friends, but, then again, math and I are not friends either so maybe she was cursed with my math gene There IS help out there, YOU have to ask for it. Be your child's advocate, no-one else will !!