How important is protein?

VeganCappy

In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.

studies also suggest intakes as high as 2 g/lb bodyweight MIGHT be useful in elite strength trainers/athletes.

If you don't have to supply your source I don't have to supply mine either.

Ask and you shall receive. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1400008

Your study only included 12 out of shape men and only lasted for 1 month. Furthermore your 0.75g/lb number does not seem supported by the abstract.

"The recommended intake (requirement + 2 SD) was 1.6-1.7 g.kg-1.day-1."

How does the length of the study change the validity of the data? The largest effect of exercise is found in untrained individuals.

DYELB

In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.

studies also suggest intakes as high as 2 g/lb bodyweight MIGHT be useful in elite strength trainers/athletes.

If you don't have to supply your source I don't have to supply mine either.

Ask and you shall receive. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1400008

12 people

Less than a month

ETA: Nutrition requirements are different for untrained vs trained people, as the workouts are more intense for a trained individual.

jofjltncb6

Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.

In to learn more about how I can optimize my athletic performance and meet my LBM goals on no more than ~75g of protein daily.

DYELB

In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.

studies also suggest intakes as high as 2 g/lb bodyweight MIGHT be useful in elite strength trainers/athletes.

If you don't have to supply your source I don't have to supply mine either.

Ask and you shall receive. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1400008

12 people

Less than a month

ETA: Nutrition requirements are different for untrained vs trained people, as the workouts are more intense for a trained individual.

I prefer this writeup: http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

Roughly 0.8 grams per lb total bodyweight. That's not very far off from 1 gram per pound LBM.

The comment about anything over 15% being a waste doesn't really make sense because it doesn't address how hard someone may be bulking/cutting. Context matters.

VeganCappy

In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.

studies also suggest intakes as high as 2 g/lb bodyweight MIGHT be useful in elite strength trainers/athletes.

If you don't have to supply your source I don't have to supply mine either.

Ask and you shall receive. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1400008

12 people

Less than a month

ETA: Nutrition requirements are different for untrained vs trained people, as the workouts are more intense for a trained individual.

I prefer this writeup: http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

Roughly 0.8 grams per lb total bodyweight. That's not very far off from 1 gram per pound LBM.

The comment about anything over 15% being a waste doesn't really make sense because it doesn't address how hard someone may be bulking/cutting. Context matters.

.8 g/pound for someone someone moderately active and burning an extra 50% of RMR calories in training comes out to around 13% protein by calories.

Percentage actually does address how hard someone may be bulking or cutting. If a powerlifter burning double the calories per day of a highly active individual a day uses the 0.8 g/lb, then the recommendation says they need less than 8% protein by calories. If they consume 13% protein by calories, then they increase their total protein intake as they work harder.

DYELB

In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.

studies also suggest intakes as high as 2 g/lb bodyweight MIGHT be useful in elite strength trainers/athletes.

If you don't have to supply your source I don't have to supply mine either.

Ask and you shall receive. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1400008

12 people

Less than a month

ETA: Nutrition requirements are different for untrained vs trained people, as the workouts are more intense for a trained individual.

I prefer this writeup: http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

Roughly 0.8 grams per lb total bodyweight. That's not very far off from 1 gram per pound LBM.

The comment about anything over 15% being a waste doesn't really make sense because it doesn't address how hard someone may be bulking/cutting. Context matters.

.8 g/pound for someone someone moderately active and burning an extra 50% of RMR calories in training comes out to around 13% protein by calories.

Percentage actually does address how hard someone may be bulking or cutting. If a powerlifter burning double the calories per day of a highly active individual a day uses the 0.8 g/lb, then the recommendation says they need less than 8% protein by calories. If they consume 13% protein by calories, then they increase their total protein intake as they work harder.

That assumes that the added protein is necessary, which is not a leap any of the studies I listed or the one you listed made. According to Lyle protein is actually more important with bigger cuts.

ETA: My primary contention with this is the comment that 15% is the most you could need.

take a 200 lb, 25 year old male that's 20% BF and works out 3x per week.

0.8 grams per pound comes to 160 grams of protein, or 640 calories.

Katch-McCardle puts TDEE at 2669.

Even eating maintenance that's nearly 24%. If he were cutting it would be higher.

VeganCappy

In studies, .75 g/lb was the highest protein requirement to effect nitrogen balance in bodybuilders working out 1.5 hours a day. Now, if we assume they were completely sedentary the rest of the day, and burn around 50% of their RMR during their workouts, this comes out to around 15.4% protein by calories. If they were more active during the day, this ratio drops even further.

Percent of calories is a far more useful way to determine protein consumption. g/lb or g/kg does make a lot of sense, because if a powerlifter burns 6,000 calories in a day, then using g/lb or kg, they would need half the protein which is a little silly. If they maintain a percent of protein by calories, they will get a larger amount of protein in their diet when they consume more food.

Even if you are an extreme athlete, anything more than 15% is a complete waste, and that has a large margin built into it.

studies also suggest intakes as high as 2 g/lb bodyweight MIGHT be useful in elite strength trainers/athletes.

If you don't have to supply your source I don't have to supply mine either.

Ask and you shall receive. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1400008

12 people

Less than a month

ETA: Nutrition requirements are different for untrained vs trained people, as the workouts are more intense for a trained individual.

I prefer this writeup: http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

Roughly 0.8 grams per lb total bodyweight. That's not very far off from 1 gram per pound LBM.

The comment about anything over 15% being a waste doesn't really make sense because it doesn't address how hard someone may be bulking/cutting. Context matters.

.8 g/pound for someone someone moderately active and burning an extra 50% of RMR calories in training comes out to around 13% protein by calories.

Percentage actually does address how hard someone may be bulking or cutting. If a powerlifter burning double the calories per day of a highly active individual a day uses the 0.8 g/lb, then the recommendation says they need less than 8% protein by calories. If they consume 13% protein by calories, then they increase their total protein intake as they work harder.

That assumes that the added protein is necessary, which is not a leap any of the studies I listed or the one you listed made. According to Lyle protein is actually more important with bigger cuts.

What added protein? Are you taking 8%-13% or more than 13%?

ahamm002

Do you have ANY science that shows people need more more protein? Or are you only going to post opinion articles and throw attacks at me for posting studies that contradict your unsubstantiated opinions?

There is literally a plethora of research out there on optimal protein intake. The reason your study on out of shape men is bad is for several reasons:

1. Out of shape individuals have higher body fat percentages. Protein intake is more dependent on LEAN body mass than total body mass.
2. If the individuals didn't have a caloric surplus, then they probably won't gain much muscle over just 1 month anyway. It usually takes 6 weeks of weight training to find a measurable difference in muscle size.
3. Your body is actually more efficient with protein when bulking then cutting. High protein is even more important when losing weight to prevent muscle loss than it is when gaining weight to build muscle.

Since there are so many conflicting studies on protein intake out there, I'm just going to post a very basic review that has numerous links to studies:
http://authoritynutrition.com/how-much-protein-per-day/

VeganCappy

Do you have ANY science that shows people need more more protein? Or are you only going to post opinion articles and throw attacks at me for posting studies that contradict your unsubstantiated opinions?

There is literally a plethora of research out there on optimal protein intake. The reason your study on out of shape men is bad is for several reasons:

1. Out of shape individuals have higher body fat percentages. Protein intake is more dependent on LEAN body mass than total body mass.
2. If the individuals didn't have a caloric surplus, then they probably won't gain much muscle over just 1 month anyway. It usually takes 6 weeks of weight training to find a measurable difference in muscle size.
3. Your body is actually more efficient with protein when bulking then cutting. High protein is even more important when losing weight to prevent muscle loss than it is when gaining weight to build muscle.

Since there are so many conflicting studies on protein intake out there, I'm just going to post a very basic review that has numerous links to studies:
http://authoritynutrition.com/how-much-protein-per-day/

The article to which you linked actually supports everything I have been saying.

"If you have a physically demanding job, you walk a lot, run, swim or do any sort of exercise, then you need more protein. Endurance athletes also need quite a bit of protein, about 0.5 – 0.65 grams per pound, or 1.2 – 1.4 grams per kg (18, 19)."

ahamm002

Do you have ANY science that shows people need more more protein? Or are you only going to post opinion articles and throw attacks at me for posting studies that contradict your unsubstantiated opinions?

There is literally a plethora of research out there on optimal protein intake. The reason your study on out of shape men is bad is for several reasons:

1. Out of shape individuals have higher body fat percentages. Protein intake is more dependent on LEAN body mass than total body mass.
2. If the individuals didn't have a caloric surplus, then they probably won't gain much muscle over just 1 month anyway. It usually takes 6 weeks of weight training to find a measurable difference in muscle size.
3. Your body is actually more efficient with protein when bulking then cutting. High protein is even more important when losing weight to prevent muscle loss than it is when gaining weight to build muscle.

Since there are so many conflicting studies on protein intake out there, I'm just going to post a very basic review that has numerous links to studies:
http://authoritynutrition.com/how-much-protein-per-day/

The article to which you linked actually supports everything I have been saying.

"If you have a physically demanding job, you walk a lot, run, swim or do any sort of exercise, then you need more protein. Endurance athletes also need quite a bit of protein, about 0.5 – 0.65 grams per pound, or 1.2 – 1.4 grams per kg (18, 19)."

Here are some quotes from the article that you seem to have missed:

"Bottom Line: A protein intake at around 30% of calories seems to be optimal for weight loss. It boosts the metabolic rate and causes a spontaneous reduction in calorie intake."

"If you’re carrying a lot of body fat, then it is a good idea to use either your lean mass or your goal weight, instead of total body weight, because it’s mostly your lean mass that determines the amount of protein you need. Bottom Line: It is important to eat enough protein if you want to gain and/or maintain muscle. Most studies suggest that 0.7 – 1 grams per pound of lean mass (1.5 – 2.2 grams per kg) is sufficient."

"But given that there is no evidence of harm and significant evidence of benefit, I think it is better for most people to err on the side of more protein rather than less."

ErnestDecker

Protein is the incredibly important thing while muscle building. We have to eat enough for getting protein. It is a different opinion that how much protein you have to take. Many official nutrition organizations recommend a fairly modest protein intake. Protein work as building blocks for Muscle, hair, nails and your skin. So if you are trying to build muscle then your protein need for your body get higher.

ironanimal

Your 13% is an incredibly random figure. I'm cutting on 2500 calories a day, and 1g/lb LBM (so less than if I did total weight). As such, I'm consuming about 200g of protein a day - 800 calories, or 32%.