Constant Conflicting Theories Panic-What do you think?

bombshellcertification

Im 44 and have been doing a lot of cardio and light weights...Im seeing muscles develop and tone in my legs, arms, glutes--even my the side of my abs BUT not my abs....I mix it up and am only two months into this. I naturally have a lot of energy and cardio has been my anxiety buster....there are so many opinions on here and out there....today I came across this

http://www.fitnessviking.com/7-reasons-why-you-should-stop-cardio-right-now/8/

It makes sense in ways, as does everything regarding diet & exercise--there is always a nugget of truth and then I start questioning...at my age I don't want to get into something that is going to make me eventually gain weight or store fat--as this article suggests...how much is too much? How much is not enough---and if I really like it and am seeing results how do I modify...and is it true? What says YOU?? Im bracing myself as I know everyone has strong opinions...hopefully it will be a peaceful and informative discussion....Thank You in advance for feedback...experience etc..

stuffinmuffin

bump

TavistockToad

Im 44 and have been doing a lot of cardio and light weights...Im seeing muscles develop and tone in my legs, arms, glutes--even my the side of my abs BUT not my abs....I mix it up and am only two months into this. I naturally have a lot of energy and cardio has been my anxiety buster....there are so many opinions on here and out there....today I came across this

http://www.fitnessviking.com/7-reasons-why-you-should-stop-cardio-right-now/8/

It makes sense in ways, as does everything regarding diet & exercise--there is always a nugget of truth and then I start questioning...at my age I don't want to get into something that is going to make me eventually gain weight or store fat--as this article suggests...how much is too much? How much is not enough---and if I really like it and am seeing results how do I modify...and is it true? What says YOU?? Im bracing myself as I know everyone has strong opinions...hopefully it will be a peaceful and informative discussion....Thank You in advance for feedback...experience etc..

a load of steady state cardio may not get you the results you want...

a mixture of cardio and strength/resistance training with a calorie deficit will mean you increase fitness, reduce bodyfat and retain LBM.

EvgeniZyntx

Define your objectives.

Then look at the activity that gets you there.
I don't do "cardio" for weight loss - I run (when I run) to develop myself for running for events or for specific fitness goals.
I bike because I love it and for social aspects. I do various other things for the love of it.

Currently, for the next few months my main focus will be weight lifting - because that fits my current objectives and my schedule. Might keep in a few runs and stuff to keep me sane.

But it depends on objectives.
If you don't know what you want, where you want to go and can't express it clearly how do you know if you should walk, run, drive, fly or swim there?

ETA: After reading those pages and links, it it my opinion that you should stop reading that site. It is awfully poor - the quality of information on "cardio" is just boggling bad.

PtheronJr

The only real issue with cardio is doing excessive amounts of it while weight lifting at the same time as the amount of calories you burn doing cardio can be counter productive when you're trying to build muscle. That doesn't have much to do with weight loss however.

The big thing with cardio and why people say it isn't the best for weight loss is because most people don't consistently ramp up the difficulty. If you keep running 3 miles at 5mph every day, your body will quickly get used to it, a run that burned 300 calories will now only burn 150, that's because your cardiovascular system has adapted and increased its efficiency. So a lot of people will keep eating the same amount but not adjust for the change in intensity.
That's the only real worry you should have, but keep adding incremental difficulty, distance, speed, etc. and it'll be harder for your body to plateau, either that or just perform different forms of cardio that utilize different parts of your body, like a rowing machine, or swimming.

It's the same idea with weightlifting, the reason it's so good at helping burn fat and maintain weight loss is because it's a progressive activity, you continue ramping up the weight as you grow stronger, so the intensity grows or is generally consistent. The issue is that a lot of people don't do the same thing with cardio, and cardio is generally just easier for your body to adapt to.

It takes awhile for your body to adapt though, you won't really get anywhere near the diminishing returns longtime runners see.

SarahxApple

I don't know an awful lot about the science but seriously ANY article that has this:

3. Cardio Is Boring And Counter Productive

as a reason you should stop doing something, is quite frankly terrible, the assumption that eventually you will hate it because you are doing the same thing each time can be applied to all aspects of exercise (lifting included) and most aspects of life.

Also this:

4. Cardio Can Damage Your Heart

I'm pretty certain and lack of exercise and bad diets lead to higher cases of damage and heart attacks than running 3 times a week.

amusedmonkey

This article has so many issues, I don't even know where to start. For starters, it does not provide a source for even one of its claims and it makes its claims as if people who do cardio are all long distance athletes who overtrain even for an athlete level.

I actually don't understand the mentality of "either or", why can't a person have a balanced program that includes all activities they enjoy regardless of type? You can do cardio, weight lift, and do HIIT all within the same program to balance things out.

Just do the things your enjoy and weight will eventually come off. Where fat choses to come off depends entirely on your body and genetics. Continue doing what you enjoy and stop worrying. Lifting WILL help you get a better stomach and an overall better body composition, but I don't see why it should be either this or that. It can be combined with cardio to reach the benefits of both, especially that while losing weight you are not looking to bulk anyway, you are just looking to reserve your muscle mass.

Let's begin....

1. Oxidative Stress And Overtraining

Every kind of exercise done wrong can cause damage, including weight lifting. Humans actually did evolve for long bursts of walking (which is a steady state cardio) looking for things to gather, and high-impact activities, such as running, might have a greater positive effect on bone mineral density than resistance training. To reach the oxidative stress claimed, you would need to dramatically over-train, which could be true for any kind of exercise.

2. You Will Get Little (If Any) Noticeable Results
Not true. If your calories in are less than your calories out, you will lose weight. Cardio is a great way of making the process easier by giving you extra calories to consume, and all that talk about cardio making people fat is nonsense. Cardio is actually one of the best ways to burn that dangerous visceral fat. http://sweatscience.com/cardio-vs-weights-for-visceral-and-liver-fat/

3. Cardio Is Boring And Counter Productive
Some people actually enjoy cardio. Personally, I find it nice to zone out and listen to an audiobook while doing it. It's a nice time-out from the world. It's true that very long bouts of cardio combined with a diet poor in protein and calories can cannibalize muscles. Eat enough protein and calories to sustain your activity level and you should be fine.

4. Cardio Can Damage Your Heart
For adults without existing heart disease, the risk of a cardiac event or complication ranges between 1 in 400 000–800 000 hours of exercise. For patients with existing heart disease, an event can occur an average of once in 62 000 hours. Even then, the chance is much lower than for those who don't do cardio.
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/107/1/e2.full

5. Long Hours Of Cardiovascular Exercise May Destroy Your Adrenal Glands
Adrenal fatigue is not an actual medical condition, and almost as much bull**** attached to it as autism (which is a real condition). Now let's assume it's a valid condition, any kind of overstressing would cause it, being cardio, strength training, or normal life stressors. Now unless you're training for 6+ hours a day every day, I don't see how it would contribute to this imaginary condition.

6. Overexertion Of The Lungs And Muscles
This part has more nonsense than the whole article combined, so I won't mention all the points and will just comment on the title.
Overoxidation of muscles is actually MUCH more common for people who try to muscle out more than their body wants them to while lifting. In general it's a result of overexertion, regardless of the activity.

7. Disability And Other Medical Implications
Like I said earlier, any kind of activity done wrong can cause injuries and medical complications.

Azdak

The best con jobs are the ones that "seem" to "make sense". This article is a rant, not science.

Unfortunately, the fitness business has always been an industry where you can make money by spewing nonsense on a regular basis. The internet has only exaggerated that problem.

I'm not going refute it point-by-point, because I've done it plenty of times before, and, frankly, it doesn't deserve that much of my attention.

People who do not like to do cardio often do not have to do cardio to meet their goals. For some reason, there are a number of these people who feel compelled to spout off a number of exaggerated, ridiculous claims about the "dangers" of cardio.

However, people who want to do a mixed program, or who enjoy cardio and want to make it the cornerstone of their program can do just fine as well.

Azdak

The only real issue with cardio is doing excessive amounts of it while weight lifting at the same time as the amount of calories you burn doing cardio can be counter productive when you're trying to build muscle. That doesn't have much to do with weight loss however.

The big thing with cardio and why people say it isn't the best for weight loss is because most people don't consistently ramp up the difficulty. If you keep running 3 miles at 5mph every day, your body will quickly get used to it, a run that burned 300 calories will now only burn 150, that's because your cardiovascular system has adapted and increased its efficiency. So a lot of people will keep eating the same amount but not adjust for the change in intensity.
That's the only real worry you should have, but keep adding incremental difficulty, distance, speed, etc. and it'll be harder for your body to plateau, either that or just perform different forms of cardio that utilize different parts of your body, like a rowing machine, or swimming.

It's the same idea with weightlifting, the reason it's so good at helping burn fat and maintain weight loss is because it's a progressive activity, you continue ramping up the weight as you grow stronger, so the intensity grows or is generally consistent. The issue is that a lot of people don't do the same thing with cardio, and cardio is generally just easier for your body to adapt to.

It takes awhile for your body to adapt though, you won't really get anywhere near the diminishing returns longtime runners see.

This information may come as a shock, but those who don't increase their weights when they lift are going to plateau very quickly as well.

Seriously, they will.

There is no "master hand" that forces people to increase weights when lifting, that prevents them from just going through the motions just like any other exercise program.

The idea that doing cardio makes one more susceptible to plateauing or more likely to not follow a progressive program reflects your own limited experience and bias more than anything else.

There are just as many people at the gym coasting through their strength workouts as there are doing it with cardio. That's how I make my living.

And no, your calorie expenditure for the same run won't drop from 300 to 150. Over about 10 years, it might drop from 300 to 290 or 285. But the argument is still absurd because that same efficiency --even if it did exist to the extent you claim, which is doesn't--would allow the person to run at a faster speed to make up the difference.

Azdak

Stupid articles like this--and the attitude they represent--have caused a lot of people to jettison their cardio programs in favor of all lifting, without really thinking through the issue. They think doing a couple of sets of deadlifts will magically "create muscle and burn fat", while at the same time decreasing their exercise calorie expenditure by 60%-70% with no change in diet.

The result is a lot more fat, chunky people walking around the gym.

Just like an artist or musician can express their talent through different media, one can achieve weight loss and fitness/health benefits with a variety of approaches. Whichever path is chosen requires the same: consistency, focus, progressively increasing exercise load, planned/structured variety of workout loads, appropriate nutritional support. And the types of exercise you choose need to match your goals, your likes and dislikes, and your physical abilities.

PtheronJr

The only real issue with cardio is doing excessive amounts of it while weight lifting at the same time as the amount of calories you burn doing cardio can be counter productive when you're trying to build muscle. That doesn't have much to do with weight loss however.

The big thing with cardio and why people say it isn't the best for weight loss is because most people don't consistently ramp up the difficulty. If you keep running 3 miles at 5mph every day, your body will quickly get used to it, a run that burned 300 calories will now only burn 150, that's because your cardiovascular system has adapted and increased its efficiency. So a lot of people will keep eating the same amount but not adjust for the change in intensity.
That's the only real worry you should have, but keep adding incremental difficulty, distance, speed, etc. and it'll be harder for your body to plateau, either that or just perform different forms of cardio that utilize different parts of your body, like a rowing machine, or swimming.

It's the same idea with weightlifting, the reason it's so good at helping burn fat and maintain weight loss is because it's a progressive activity, you continue ramping up the weight as you grow stronger, so the intensity grows or is generally consistent. The issue is that a lot of people don't do the same thing with cardio, and cardio is generally just easier for your body to adapt to.

It takes awhile for your body to adapt though, you won't really get anywhere near the diminishing returns longtime runners see.

This information may come as a shock, but those who don't increase their weights when they lift are going to plateau very quickly as well.

Seriously, they will.

There is no "master hand" that forces people to increase weights when lifting, that prevents them from just going through the motions just like any other exercise program.

The idea that doing cardio makes one more susceptible to plateauing or more likely to not follow a progressive program reflects your own limited experience and bias more than anything else.

There are just as many people at the gym coasting through their strength workouts as there are doing it with cardio. That's how I make my living.

And no, your calorie expenditure for the same run won't drop from 300 to 150. Over about 10 years, it might drop from 300 to 290 or 285. But the argument is still absurd because that same efficiency --even if it did exist to the extent you claim, which is doesn't--would allow the person to run at a faster speed to make up the difference.

I can guarantee you this isn't the case, as the mentality with weightlifting in general is to "get stronger and bigger," people are typically obsessed with enlarging their numbers when weightlifting.
It's just the way it's perceived by the general public that make people more likely to be more successful on that front.
The general perception of cardio, however, is different, most people's cardiovascular health is measured in public terms as "how long can you go" instead of "how intensely can you go."
Long distance runners are more often the standard among the general populace rather than sprinters. Look at the popularity of marathons and long distance runs in the fitness community.

Sure, there are people who will coast through their lifts, but they will absolutely still make initial strength gains and continue building up, simply because that's the mindset. That's not the mindset of cardio.

It has nothing to do with the technical aspects of it, it has everything to do with how the differing forms of exercise are perceived by their higher standards. A high standard for lifting among most people is strength, a high standard for cardiovascular health among most people is running for a really long distance. See how common the exclamations are of "I ran 3 miles today!"

But at what pace? It's not the most common obsession for cardio. That's why generally it's less successful for people in the long term, they stop seeing returns like they used to and give up.
The problem is an improper metric.

jimmmer

But at what pace? It's not the most common obsession for cardio. That's why generally it's less successful for people in the long term, they stop seeing returns like they used to and give up.
The problem is an improper metric.

It's probably because most people see it in terms of calorie burns. They are not approaching their cardio sessions in terms of fitting into a larger progressive training programme. But increasing duration of an endurance activity is a valid goal (if you are trying to go from running a 10k to a half, or a half to a marathon).

Plenty of people who are experienced runners/cyclists/triathletes/etc on this site do their chosen activity in terms of an intelligent progression. They are trying out classic training programmes and periodisation schemes for their sport just like lifters do with 5/3/1, TM, 5x5, etc. They may even devise their own when they are sufficiently experienced and educated.

The problem is the casual or inexperienced trainee who doesn't really know what they want (apart from maybe weight loss) and have no real idea of what they are doing, why they are doing it and how it helps them achieve their goal. And this can equally apply to lifters with f*ckarounditis and cardio bunnies, by the way.

bombshellcertification

Thank you everyone for really good, thoughtful, experienced, informative, solid feedback:drinker: !!! You all helped calm down my panic--and as mentioned that's the thing with information on the net...it comes from anywhere, everywhere--and its hard to just get the practical, grounded facts especially when it comes to fitness, diet & exercise...Especially when you are not focused in one area ex. lifting, or doing one kind of cardio training like running, cycling etc or dealing with a specific issue. And there is always contradicting ideas--especially with nutrition and exercise:grumble: .

From your responses, It seems I need more information and a more organized, progressive plan going forward if I want certain results & overall better fitness.

I do sincerely enjoy cardio as I have a lot of energy and anxiety to burn--I feel so good while doing cardio & after. Also true for the newbie strength training with light weights and resistance. I have been doing about 2 hours of exercise a day--usually one cardio and one resistance or sculpt class. I like community exercise and have a hard time doing it at home--and right now Im in such transition that classes also help structure in specific time & variety which I need/like.

I do a variety of work outs (does that make me a cardio bunny?)---Kick Box, Belly Dance, Spin, Zumba, Step/Sculpt, Pilates with weights and Boot Camp, walking with occasional 5k run thrown in now and again. I only ran one half marathon and enjoyed it, but I don't enjoy running or doing any one thing all of the time. So I don't have a progression plan or organized, focused understanding of how to go about being my personal best. Training for the half marathon was a good experience as it did give me a focus, organized plan of attack and a specific goal to work towards. I am missing that now--and with the variety/lifestyle change--its a little foggy to determine a plan so to speak. But I'm understanding that I need an initial plan and also one that I can taper to maintain lifestyle, and level of fitness/health. It takes tweaking and education.

I've been doing what I enjoy & trying to balance different ways of getting fit. For diet also trial and error, as Id like to lean out, gain muscle and be overall fit/healthy as much as possible going into the next chapter of life while also something I can eventually maintain as lifestyle...I've been gangbusters as currently not employed, stress reduction and energy to spare My only goal is to be more fit and prevent Osteo & mid life weight gain & depression --to feel better about myself and the challenges of living life....so far, so good--its been helping so very much. And yes Id like to look my best too (there is the vanity factor) and I like getting/feeling my strong, sexy, confident groove coming back. :blushing:

I think if I understand correctly from reading the posts here, that it is important to have a plan...and goals and know what Im doing...and that's the rub...I have no idea! I am seeing results, feeling stronger, a little more confident...but I feel I'm missing important information as I move forward from here. I think a personal trainer may help with more specific guidance as we are all different, with different capacities, goals and bodies. Its pretty overwhelming to try to sort out all the information and know what's best. And then the trainers all have different ideas, philosophies, specialties and levels of education, experience etc...and they tell you all different stuff...and Im a really overall practical, grounded and common sensical lol person--its so dang hard to find the practical, grounded, common sense plan----thinking about Jack La Lane lol---back to basics...

If anyone knows any practical reading to suggest that is solid--like a personal trainer in a book --for making more concrete progressive plan--please feel free to post as well....Pace e Bene, Lisa

Chaskavitch

I've never done anything with a "strength trainer in a book", but I've read/been told that Strong Lifts 5x5, Starting Strength, and New Rules of Lifting for Women are all great places to start with weightlifting if you don't have a plan.

If you're looking for more of a body weight routine instead of barbells, you could look at Nerd Fitness or You Are Your Own Gym. They both have a bunch of very effective exercises that are easily done in your home or at the gym with minimal equipment. Nerd Fitness has more programs, but the YAYOG book has a lot of pictoral examples of how to do things (although I guess you could YouTube pretty much any exercise, once you know the name).

bombshellcertification

Thank you Chaskavitch for reading suggestions..going to check out all the reads you posted..I do need a plan, and and informed starting to place to organize goals that seem to make sense---need a little help determining more specific, weekly diet/exercise...that I can sustain and incorporate into lifestyle..looking forward to more ideas..

MeanderingMammal

Sure, there are people who will coast through their lifts, but they will absolutely still make initial strength gains and continue building up, simply because that's the mindset. That's not the mindset of cardio.

It has nothing to do with the technical aspects of it, it has everything to do with how the differing forms of exercise are perceived by their higher standards. A high standard for lifting among most people is strength, a high standard for cardiovascular health among most people is running for a really long distance. See how common the exclamations are of "I ran 3 miles today!"

But at what pace? It's not the most common obsession for cardio. That's why generally it's less successful for people in the long term, they stop seeing returns like they used to and give up.
The problem is an improper metric.

I've seen a "quote" a couple of times along the lines of "athletes don't diet and exercise, they eat and train", and whilst it's a little trite it does capture difference in outlook that's captured here. I wouldn't agree that those who lift are in some way working to a higher standard, but that far more of the "diet and exercise" group do cardio, because it's relatively straightforward to pootle along on an elliptical, reading a book and taking two hours to burn 300-400 calories.

Generally amongst many of the people I associate with a comment along the lines of "I ran x miles today" would be followed up by "how long did it take". Distance is meaningless without some context around whether it was a long slow run, and interval run or a tempo run. I don't actually think I know anyone who would drive to the gym to go for a walk on a treadmill, which I'd see as typifying the person described here.

If people are only exercising to burn calories then it doesn't really matter what they do, and whether they bother to increase the challenge on their performance. While exercise efficiency and improving VO2Max do make a difference to calorie expenditure, it's not that significant in someone who's not actually training. IF they're actually training, working on achieving quantifiable objectives, then it matter what they do. Equally that then becomes a debate around what the most effective training for their objectives is. Significant bulk is counter-productive for a long distance runner, hence resistance training emphasising muscular endurance and systemic balance, whereas a sprinter needs explosive power, hence a resistance programme that'll lead to significant muscular growth, but minimal endurance.