Amount of protein and kidney problems. RELATED?!!!!!

sunnysashka

Hi!
Here is my story. At the beginning of my journey I was too excited about "lean protein with every meal" and I was doing really well. I ate Only meats, eggs, Greek yogurts, cottage cheese, fruits and veggies. Then I had a very bad kidney infection and ended up in ER.... I did not think it was related.

After that incident for a while I was recovering and was eating fruit, vegs, less meat and eggs, yogurts, some grains, bagels in the mornings.

But I have noticed that as soon as I start being really focused on my eating and go back to very protein meals, I feel it in my kidneys.

DOES ANYOME KNOW IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE RELATED?!!!

P.S. I have asked my doctor, but she seems so uninterested and almost clueless.. I should probably switch my primary physician! )))

AmyW4225

It could be possible. Diets high in protein have been known to cause kidney problems. Make sure you're drinking plenty of fluids! Is it possible you have kidney stones? I know that people with kidney problems/kidney failure shouldn't eat too much protein because it is excreted by the kidneys.

http://www.ehow.com/how_5612952_reduce-excess-protein-kidney.html

JillTwiss

I don't know, but I just now Googled "protein and kidney problems" and found several articles that say in a person with normal kidney function, no, high protein shouldn't cause problems, but if someone's kidneys are already functioning poorly, it will.

mike6pak

5 studies say they are not related. The problem is you find another 5 that says they are. I had this dilemma for years and unfortunately I can't trust doctors on this one...

I've been on a high protein diet for 4 years and my kidneys are happy (had them checked 2 months ago). I think excess carbs and trans fats are a lot worse...

sunnysashka

Ugh! It is all so scary! (( and the worst part is that I do not know how to trust my doctor! I had infection coming back 3 times since then! And my doc was like: "Gmmmm... Why would it come back?"!!!!!!!!:mad:

mike6pak

When you say high protein, how HIGH (%)??

ivyjbres

Yes, it can be related. Especially if you aren't drinking enough fluids. Protein is the most direct precursor to uric acid, which is the precursor to urea, the concentrated stuff that makes pee smell bad. And if you aren't putting enough fluid into your body, then there's not enough fluid to carry that stuff out of your body. The uric acid can bind together and crystallize, causing kidney stones. Also, since protein provides energy, any bacteria that manages to get into your kidneys will have plenty of nurishment; giving you a really bad kidney infection.

sunnysashka

I used to be on 40% protein. Now I'm down to 20%-protein, 55%-carbs, 25%-fat

sunnysashka

ivyjbres!
Thank you for such a detailed answer! I'm going to really focus on water. I think, I do not drink enough...

kayemme

i think it would be wise to switch your protein sources up. consider where you get your protein, and then look at the way those sources are raised. if you're eating meats, even if they are lean, remember that many meats are not only irradiated, but shot up with hormones. you could be having a reaction to something that is IN the protein source, not the source itself. maybe you're allergic to a kind of feed given to animals (and that transfers into milk, eggs, yogurt, butter, meats, etc...)

do you have an herbalist in your area? maybe talk with him to try some blood cleansing teas. try to stick with a good, natural herbalist as a source for getting culinary and medicinal herbs.

for instance, nettle tea is great for the blood, lungs and all respiratory passages.

i'm not suggesting you stop eating animal products (though, i think it's a good idea to not eat unaccountable meat & dairy), but a good vegetarian diet will supply you with plenty of proteins if it is balanced.

good luck with it! if you're in new england, i could give you some sources.

sunnysashka

kayemme!
Thank you for suggestion! I was actually thinking about going vegetarian direction. I just don't know where to start and where to get those proteins. And I know for sure I can't live without yogurts and cottage cheese, eggs.

bucky17h

Yes protein can affect kidneys - my son has a kidney condition so I am familiar with this

kayemme

don't worry about it too much! if you're eating dairy or eggs at all, you're getting enough. there are lots of proteins packed into leafy greens, and truthfully, we simply eat too many of them in the first place.

i just saw this article that talks about portion sizes compared to 50 years ago. everything is at least 200% bigger per "serving" so if your grandparents could raise a dozen kids and a farm on half the food we consume, you're gonna be all right.

edit: here's a good article http://www.vegsoc.org/info/protein.html

and the introduction:
Being vegetarian does not mean your diet will be lacking in protein. Most plant foods contain protein and in fact it would be very difficult to design a vegetarian diet that is short on protein. Excess dietary protein may lead to health problems. It is now thought that one of the benefits of a vegetarian diet is that it contains adequate but not excessive protein.

Proteins are made up of smaller units called amino acids. There are about 20 different amino acids, eight of which must be present in the diet. These are the essential amino acids. Unlike animal proteins, plant proteins may not contain all the essential amino acids in the necessary proportions. However, a varied vegetarian diet means a mixture of proteins is consumed, the amino acids in one protein compensating for the deficiencies of another.

TrainingWithTonya

For someone who has normal healthy kidney function, high protein isn't a problem. For someone who is predisposed to kidney problems, then yes, high protein can cause more problems.

Basically, how it works is that all the nitrogen that is in protein (but not carbs or fat) has to be removed from the carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen that are the other components of protein (and are also the components of carbs and fats, just in different levels of each). When the protein is deaminated, the nitrogen is sent to the liver to be converted to urea. The urea is then sent to the kidneys to be removed from the body. In a normal functioning kidney, the person excretes it in normal urination, no problem. However, if the kidneys aren't functioning at 100%, or there isn't enough water intake to flush the nitrogen from the body, or the sodium intake is excessive causing the water that should be flushing the kidneys to be retained, then the urea can build up in the kidneys or be shuttled to the blood stream with that water volume where it can cause pH problems in the rest of the body.

Its because of this issue that I have to maintain my protein level to 15% or less of my diet. I'm doing a kidney donation to a relative who needs it and that recommendation is from the Medical College of Georgia doctors who deal with kidney issues daily.

So, my best advice would be to decrease your protein intake and see if you don't feel better while you are looking for another doctor. Also, the kidneys are the number one regulator of blood pressure, so watch that since you've had kidney issues.

sunnysashka

kayemme!
Thank you for the link! I'm going to study before I make my desigion.

TrainingWithTonya
I'm getting more and more scared.... Thank you so much for the information!

JillTwiss

I am a vegetarian and protein is not at all a concern for me. I thought it was, because that's what people always told me, until I started logging everything here and saw I am getting enough protein without even trying at all. Iron is a different story, but protein is easy if you're still eating dairy and eggs.

JDMPWR

How much protein per day and what is your body weight?

Protein is broken down through the kidneys. Some kidneys can be weaker then others but the kidneys can process up to 10grams per pound of body weight if not more by most studies. You also need to keep hydrated otherwise you will start to reek havoc on them.

I wonder how much protein you are taking in per meal. 20-30 grams per meal is fine. I have taken in the past upwards of 50, 6 times a day. Now I am around 30-35 with no problems.

sunnysashka

I'm 128.3 lbs now and for example, today will consume about 78 grams of protein. It is 24-26g per meal. (You can have a look at my diary too) Looks like my numbers are within normal range?

TrainingWithTonya

How much protein per day and what is your body weight?

Protein is broken down through the kidneys. Some kidneys can be weaker then others but the kidneys can process up to 10grams per pound of body weight if not more by most studies. You also need to keep hydrated otherwise you will start to reek havoc on them.

I wonder how much protein you are taking in per meal. 20-30 grams per meal is fine. I have taken in the past upwards of 50, 6 times a day. Now I am around 30-35 with no problems.

Do you have links to these studies? I'd love to read them as the research we've been shown in my nutrition minor at university indicates a reasonable upper limit of 2.8 grams per kilogram of body weight (2.2046 pounds).

ETA: the 2.8 grams per kilogram is for people with normal functioning kidneys. Anyone with kidney issues should stick to the RDA of 0.8 grams per kilogram for the average person up to 1.8 grams per kilogram for the highly active weight training person. Just like carbs and fat, any excess protein consumed will be stored as fat if it isn't needed by the body.

sunnysashka

How much protein per day and what is your body weight?

Protein is broken down through the kidneys. Some kidneys can be weaker then others but the kidneys can process up to 10grams per pound of body weight if not more by most studies. You also need to keep hydrated otherwise you will start to reek havoc on them.

I wonder how much protein you are taking in per meal. 20-30 grams per meal is fine. I have taken in the past upwards of 50, 6 times a day. Now I am around 30-35 with no problems.

Do you have links to these studies? I'd love to read them as the research we've been shown in my nutrition minor at university indicates a reasonable upper limit of 2.8 grams per kilogram of body weight (2.2046 pounds).

I'm within normal range according to your calculations.

TrainingWithTonya

I'm 128.3 lbs now and for example, today will consume about 78 grams of protein. It is 24-26g per meal. (You can have a look at my diary too) Looks like my numbers are within normal range?

Okay, I went and looked at your intake and have done a little math based on the recommendations we are taught to give based on weight. At 128.3 pounds, you are 58.2 kilograms. The standard recommendation is 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight, which would be 46.56 grams per day for your weight. Now, I also looked at you exercise habits and for people who focus on endurance exercise (all those aerobics and cardio machines you are doing) they can have up to 1.4 grams per kilogram of body weight. For you the upper level of protein intake for endurance training would be 81.48 grams per day. So you are doing just fine with your 78 grams. Actually, that is the high end of the range your body needs for the activity you are doing, so if you are feeling kidney issues at this level you have plenty of wiggle room to drop it down and still meet your body's needs.

MzBug

It seemed to help me to take cranberry capsules at night before bed. I had trouble with kidney and bladder infections a few years ago while on a very low carb low fat diet. The last thing I would do before bed was swallow 4-5 capsules with enough water to get them down. I tried not to get up and go during the night. My boyfriend also used to get kidney stones. Now when he feels funky in the kidney/bladder area he takes the capsules for a week and hasn't had nearly as much of a problem.

sunnysashka

TrainingWithTonya

Thank you for your advise and being so attentive! I will work on reducing my protein amount. Because today is my rest day and I'm not planning on excersising, and still I'm on the high end of protein amount.

sunnysashka

MzBug

I'll look it up! I just make my own cranberry juice when I'm not feeling right... But I will look for capsules too! Thanks!

JDMPWR

How much protein per day and what is your body weight?

Protein is broken down through the kidneys. Some kidneys can be weaker then others but the kidneys can process up to 10grams per pound of body weight if not more by most studies. You also need to keep hydrated otherwise you will start to reek havoc on them.

I wonder how much protein you are taking in per meal. 20-30 grams per meal is fine. I have taken in the past upwards of 50, 6 times a day. Now I am around 30-35 with no problems.

Do you have links to these studies? I'd love to read them as the research we've been shown in my nutrition minor at university indicates a reasonable upper limit of 2.8 grams per kilogram of body weight (2.2046 pounds).

ETA: the 2.8 grams per kilogram is for people with normal functioning kidneys. Anyone with kidney issues should stick to the RDA of 0.8 grams per kilogram for the average person up to 1.8 grams per kilogram for the highly active weight training person. Just like carbs and fat, any excess protein consumed will be stored as fat if it isn't needed by the body.

I do have links and I have real world results. Ask any body builder. Not that this is a sited source but google it even They do not train such as a real athlete that would burn anywhere from 5-10,000 cals a day such as a track star, swimmer, football player, etc. they may burn 2500-4000 cals a day and substain 4-7% bodyfat and consumer 2-3.5 grams per lb in protein. So your statement of protein being stored as fat is not true. Your body is more prone to release it through the bowels then process it and store it as fat, this statement alone you can find all over the internet.

TrainingWithTonya

How much protein per day and what is your body weight?

Protein is broken down through the kidneys. Some kidneys can be weaker then others but the kidneys can process up to 10grams per pound of body weight if not more by most studies. You also need to keep hydrated otherwise you will start to reek havoc on them.

I wonder how much protein you are taking in per meal. 20-30 grams per meal is fine. I have taken in the past upwards of 50, 6 times a day. Now I am around 30-35 with no problems.

Do you have links to these studies? I'd love to read them as the research we've been shown in my nutrition minor at university indicates a reasonable upper limit of 2.8 grams per kilogram of body weight (2.2046 pounds).

ETA: the 2.8 grams per kilogram is for people with normal functioning kidneys. Anyone with kidney issues should stick to the RDA of 0.8 grams per kilogram for the average person up to 1.8 grams per kilogram for the highly active weight training person. Just like carbs and fat, any excess protein consumed will be stored as fat if it isn't needed by the body.

I do have links and I have real world results. Ask any body builder. Not that this is a sited source but google it even They do not train such as a real athlete that would burn anywhere from 5-10,000 cals a day such as a track star, swimmer, football player, etc. they may burn 2500-4000 cals a day and substain 4-7% bodyfat and consumer 2-3.5 grams per lb in protein. So your statement of protein being stored as fat is not true. Your body is more prone to release it through the bowels then process it and store it as fat, this statement alone you can find all over the internet.

As a certified nutritionist and future registered dietitian, I know better then to believe what I read on the internet. As a former body builder myself, I also know not to trust the word of a body builder because they don't necessarily have any education in proper nutrition. I only go by actual scientific studies. And the scientific research has proven that no matter what you consume, carbs, fat, or protein, if it is in excess of what the body needs, it will be stored as adipose tissue (body fat). Those body builders, swimmers, track stars, football players, etc. who are at low body fat are using what they consume. IF they were to quit exercising at such high levels but continue to eat what they consume now, they, too, would store that excess protein as body fat. Like I asked previously, give me links to the actual studies that show these excessive amounts of protein usage. No study that I have been able to find has proven the safety of more then 2.8 grams per kilogram of body weight in populations with normal functioning kidneys. They also haven't dis-proven that high levels of protein are okay for normal functioning kidneys, but they have proven that there are limits for people with kidney issues, diabetes, etc. I would love to have the research you are talking about so that I could review it with my professors and possibly assist our college athletes perform better if it is proven to be accurate. Even with research for healthy kidneys though, I don't think the OP should consume large amounts of protein as it has been proven scientifically that excess protein is hard on kidneys that are already having problems.

JDMPWR

I stated a fully functioning non predisposed person with liver issues. Posting from my phone. Just as you say ou don't tryst body builders I can say the same for certified nutritionist/dietitians. I trust them as far as I can throw them

LotusF1ower

Hi!
Here is my story. At the beginning of my journey I was too excited about "lean protein with every meal" and I was doing really well. I ate Only meats, eggs, Greek yogurts, cottage cheese, fruits and veggies. Then I had a very bad kidney infection and ended up in ER.... I did not think it was related.

After that incident for a while I was recovering and was eating fruit, vegs, less meat and eggs, yogurts, some grains, bagels in the mornings.

But I have noticed that as soon as I start being really focused on my eating and go back to very protein meals, I feel it in my kidneys.

DOES ANYOME KNOW IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE RELATED?!!!

P.S. I have asked my doctor, but she seems so uninterested and almost clueless.. I should probably switch my primary physician! )))

Yes, it is very much related.

You need to eat a lot of protein, however, if you have kidney problems, too much protein can aggravate the problem even further.

I notice your daily protein amount is quite high.

Does your doctor know precisely just how much protein you are eating each day, perhaps she doesn't realise how high it is, hence why she seemed uninterested in that side of it.

mike6pak

Some studies about the protein intake and a conclusion that it's NOT related to kidney issues. Of course they are all different group of people and the consumed protein also varies but all in all they are a good read.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12639078

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10722779

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10578207

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8933120

+

Am J Kidney Dis 2003 Mar;41(3):580-7
Association of dietary protein intake and microalbuminuria in healthy adults: Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. "Dietary protein intake was not associated with microalbuminuria in normotensive or nondiabetic persons."

TrainingWithTonya

Some studies about the protein intake and a conclusion that it's NOT related to kidney issues. Of course they are all different group of people and the consumed protein also varies but all in all they are a good read.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12639078

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10722779

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10578207

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8933120

+

Am J Kidney Dis 2003 Mar;41(3):580-7
Association of dietary protein intake and microalbuminuria in healthy adults: Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. "Dietary protein intake was not associated with microalbuminuria in normotensive or nondiabetic persons."

Great articles. I love PubMed! This is what we use in my exercise physiology program to support all our arguments for or against various things. I had actually already read a couple of these because they were referenced in class.